[awcopus]

I am sick of my peers editing video on PCs (using Avid Xpress or Vegas Video or After Effects) showing off how much faster their machines render video than I can using the same apps + FCP on a PowerMac.

CPU speed increases and dual processors are great, but ultimately, I have to believe that a company as innovative as Apple can find a way of squeezing better performance out of A/V apps.

I love OS X, but so do my peers who are adding PCs into their mix so that they can be more productive <gulp> in post-production </gulp>. They're just looking at the bottom line, though I can't help but feel like they're betraying "the cause."

I sometimes feel ridiculous about insisting on keeping my mac setup pure. Apple simply must offer a pro machine this year that significantly addresses how underpowered its pro-line is in the A/V realm. This recent incremental upgrade was a nice gesture, especially in light of the sweet price breaks. But they've just got to come through in a more dramatic, revolutionary way for us diehard loyalists who are desperately in need of major hardware productivity gains that will enable us to stick with our OS of choice at home and at work, 100%.

[slipjack]

Editing video on an AMD 1900+ at work has been painful compared to my dual Ghz at home. The PC using Premiere is hands down less reliable, slower, and almost unusable. Some of that is Adobe's fault I suspect, but Apples video editing is getting better and better, while the PC is stuck in 90's level response time/previews. Premiere on the PC actually has to CREATE a preview mode to enable live scrubbing of the content. What a load of crap.

[awcopus]

I've never used Premiere on either platform.

There are video editors I know who use Vegas Video and Avid XPress on the PC and FCP and Avid on the Mac. They have observed and demonstrated to me that, *although they are happier working on the Mac, in general, because that's where they've always been* still the raw rendering speed of PCs in these apps and in After Effects is undeniable. This is in single-processor versus dual processor tests(!).

It's not just video apps. Check out the difference in Photoshop.
http://www.robgalbraith.com/diginews...tml#conclusion

People blame this on Motorola not putting enough focus on developing the G4, but I have to say that, in the end, Apple should have done more due diligence on, at the very least, having a back-up strategy in case Moto screwed the pooch. The fact is that diehard Mac pros are beginning to spend capital on adding PC systems to their mix instead of upgrading/replacing their Macs *because the upgrades are nominal*.

[raferx]

I am DIEHARD Mac all the way... *but* I will be buying my first PC in a week or so for a network render box. It will be interesting to see how the other 95% of computer user's interface.

[Mac Zealot]

I think it's high time apple addressed some issues:

#1: The G4 needs to be called the G4XPPRO+

#2: The G4 also needs a fake clockspeed and should only be referred to as that, and must be followed by XP+

#3: Macs should no longer be reffered to as their models when you tell your friends what kind of computer you have, but you have to tell them the entire spec, and it has to be confusing like this:

G4xppro+ cpu 2400xp+, 512mbpc2700ddrsdram, 80gb16mbb9.4msata133+HDD, GFFX128mb45000pro, dvd-rw/cd-rw/32x/2x/34x/nbs

#4: Macs should be sold in sharp edged aluminum cases with side windows and have a bunch of beige CD drives as well as water cooling, and the CD drives must be stealthed, but the floppy drive MUST be showing!

There also needs to be a full arsenal of front ports, usb, usb2.0, firewire, printer, serial, ps2, game port, dd5.1, coax, av out, etc, and they must all be exposed and some must have wires going out through the back connecting to the back of the machine's standard ports.

#5: macs should have serial, Ps2, parallel, USB2.0 standard.

#6: apple should discontinue all LCDs and start making flat screen CRTs that are black or silver

#7: apple needs to include a 7 button mouse with vertical and horizontal scrollwheels as well as using bluetooth and an 'internet' keyboard that has a row of 22 keys over the standard keys

#8: Apple needs to realize that Firewire is lame and USB is better because it's an abbreviation instead of a word.

#9: Apple needs to call firewire i.Link because it has an i

#10: apple needs to discontinue it's powerbook and ibook lines and replace them with:

a. The ibook 13" with 1600x1200 screen and The all new xp3500G4pro+ and serial, printer, and ps2 ports, as well as av out, and vga as well as DD5.1 out, but no optical drive (requires a $200 dock)

b. The powerbook 17" that weighs 12lbs, has serial, printer, ps2, usb, usb2.0, front LED, battery status, 2 batteries, 802.11A, 2 CD drives, 1 cd burner, 1 floppy drive, etc.

[awcopus]

Raferx, sorry tohear that. FYI, my understanding is that Windows 2000 is currently the state of the art on the Windows side, when it comes to performance and reliability.

BTW, I like your L3cache web site. Very cool, though the text was a little hard to read in sections. Like your style.

[awcopus]

The idea that there is a MHz myth has pretty much been disspelled at this juncture.

Although it's true Apple's machines are as fast as PCs running at higher processor speeds, it is also true that many high-end PCs are now running at processor speeds sufficient to smack down the best Apple has to offer in Photoshop, After Effects, and other intensive applications.

Bottomline, the Mac is better because of OS X, the iApps, and the hardware's aesthetics. Pro users are starved for more processing punch.

[raferx]

Originally posted by awcopus:
Raferx, sorry tohear that. FYI, my understanding is that Windows 2000 is currently the state of the art on the Windows side, when it comes to performance and reliability.

BTW, I like your L3cache web site. Very cool, though the text was a little hard to read in sections. Like your style.

Thank - you very much for your kind comments! I will be running W2000 on an Athlon box BTO, for me, for a render box that will not even have a monitor hooked up to it, I cannot see the point of a $2500 Mac vs. a $700 PC, when all I need are clock cycles from it. I will be using my DP 1GHz for a second seat thought when the *NEW* Macs come out later this year. ( I hope!)

[Amorph]

Originally posted by awcopus:

There are video editors I know who use Vegas Video and Avid XPress on the PC and FCP and Avid on the Mac. They have observed and demonstrated to me that, *although they are happier working on the Mac, in general, because that's where they've always been* still the raw rendering speed of PCs in these apps and in After Effects is undeniable. This is in single-processor versus dual processor tests(!).

I know After Effects doesn't know anything about multiple processors, and I doubt the others do either. Your complaint then would be with the software developers.

However, I expect that Apple's high end will look much more attractive some time this year.

[awcopus]

Agreed.Of course, the fact that software written for single processor PCs beats the same versions on the Mac would come as no surprise given the absence of MP support and our slower processors.

<hands in prayer position> I really hope Apple pulls out something amazing this year. </hands in prayer position>

[clarkgoble]

The speed problem will be here most of this year. If you can wait until September when the 970 systems are rumored to be out then you can reclaim the speed you need. On the other hand if you can't wait that long and need the speed, then I'd suggest a nice dual Athalon 2400+.

[awcopus]

I really hope that I can hold out long enough not to purchase a PC. Unlike my friends, I seem unable to suppress the gag reflect that adding Win2000 to my set up elicits. But money talks, and if I have to do it...

I take it you work with such a system. How much did your setup cost?

[Scoo]

Originally posted by awcopus:
Raferx, sorry tohear that. FYI, my understanding is that Windows 2000 is currently the state of the art on the Windows side, when it comes to performance and reliability.

BTW, I like your L3cache web site. Very cool, though the text was a little hard to read in sections. Like your style.

My wife does high end 3D for TV at ****** ************ using Dells running Win2K. Every week there's a machine down
or someone having major problems with the OS
or the $3000 Video Cards drivers getting corrupted
or losing data,
despite a top notch IT staff doling out lots of TLC to the things. While I'm very impressed with the brute force these things possess (real time previews in Maya that no currently shipping Mac could offer), maintaining them is a nightmare.

You can't beat them when they are up and running though. These people bill at three figures per hour, deadlines HAVE to be met, and the clients want the most pixels pushed per hour they can manage. Despite the advantages we all know about, the Power Mac would feel like a step down for these folks. It's just too damn slow compared to what they are used to.

I guess trotting out the tired old car metaphors applies here, but the mac is no Mercedes; it's a Honda Odessey. Very safe, pretty fast, terriffic ergonomics, fold down rear seat (Genie effect!). Possibly the only mini-van you wont be embarrassed to be seen driving.

The Dells at ****** ************ are Pontiac Azteks retrofitted with rocket engines. Fugly, insanely fast, occasionally explodes at worst possible moment.

[awcopus]

What exactly is exploding? They're obviously using HD SCSI RAIDs, so it's not that. Is it the OS crashing all the time? Wherefore the downtime with Win2k, which is supposedly the rock of gibraltar for Windows users?

[ChrisB]

Originally posted by awcopus:
I am sick of my peers editing video on PCs (using Avid Xpress or Vegas Video or After Effects) showing off how much faster their machines render video than I can using the same apps + FCP on a PowerMac.

CPU speed increases and dual processors are great, but ultimately, I have to believe that a company as innovative as Apple can find a way of squeezing better performance out of A/V apps.

I love OS X, but so do my peers who are adding PCs into their mix so that they can be more productive <gulp> in post-production </gulp>. They're just looking at the bottom line, though I can't help but feel like they're betraying "the cause."

I sometimes feel ridiculous about insisting on keeping my mac setup pure. Apple simply must offer a pro machine this year that significantly addresses how underpowered its pro-line is in the A/V realm. This recent incremental upgrade was a nice gesture, especially in light of the sweet price breaks. But they've just got to come through in a more dramatic, revolutionary way for us diehard loyalists who are desperately in need of major hardware productivity gains that will enable us to stick with our OS of choice at home and at work, 100%.

I come from an Avid Media Composer background, but my edit suite at home is Final Cut Pro based - analog and DV - running DVCAM/DVCPRO and Betacam SP.

At times I feel the same as you, but...

1) I remember the waiting I had to do on Media Composer systems that are hardware based - I cringe when I have to use those older systems

2) My G4 based edit suite is still 10 times more reliable and more productive than the PC based ones I have used. I haven't crashed for 2 years, and my machine is up for weeks at a time without a restart.

3) I know that the machine that I bought will last me at least 5 years, because now I have an upgrade path thanks to CPU upgrade companies.

4) I have not upgraded to X (don't kill me) because, frankly, OS X is not as reliable as Mac OS 9.x based systems for editing - especially hardware support when it comes to edit boards like those that are uncompressed with SD-SDI in and out and HD-SDI in and out. The new Kona cards look promising, but Pinnacle and others are still quite unstable on X based systems.

My two cents. More bang for the buck, for years to come.

[Mac Zealot]

Gotta agree with the above post. many reasons why a mac is good

I am still irked by my g4 crashing like it does but it looks like I'll just have to take the damn thing in again and get it fixed again (ooooh how I envy laptop owners with a vengeance, they get to send their computers in with pretty little free shipped boxes and wait only a few days to get their computer back like new while I have to deal with the fscking lazy and ignorant service providers).

*shrug*