[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Neo-confederates are the most revolting form of life, just below cockroaches.

Cockroaches are actually rather beautiful, once you get past the conditioned reflex and hygienic implications.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

Giving the flag a pass as a symbol of "limited government and states rights" is a bit like forgiving the wearing of a pro-al qaeda shirt as a symbol of "the dangers of rampant capitalism and US interference in the middle east" or professing your support for the IRA bombers as proponents of "Irish pride and self determination."


It's the symbol of a movement that caused hundreds of thousands of deaths primarily because they wanted to limit the governments power to curtail their "state's right" to own other human beings. Just because other, lesser issues got wrapped up in it and likely most "valiant" soldiers who died were not slave owners, it doesn't make the symbol itself any less repulsive.

Your mostly WRONG!

Why not actually READ newspapers from the pre-civil war era, which are available at most libraries on microfiche. Slavery was NOT the main reason for the civil war. Revisionists have brainwashed you to be a tool.

[Slagwhore]

What's a "Scotch-Irish" Is that some kind of strange, American cocktail? If You're referring to the Ulsters, the Scots-Irish I never mentioned them. I did say Southern Scots AND Irish, however I do not believe your American educated brain knows the difference.

[subego]

I predict a bright future for you.

[Thorzdad]

Lack of southern gentility. Banned.

[Frank Tres]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Lack of southern gentility. Banned.

Wow, ban-evasion...how American

[The Final Dakar]

Hope the mods are enjoying the new traffic.

[subego]

I dunno... that looked like fun.

[Slagwhore]

My Main point that some of you refuse to grasp is the fighting that is now called The Civil War started in 1857. THAT fighting was between the Government and the people of the unincorporated territories ie, the Scots, the French and the Indians . The reason you're called "The United States of America" is because unlike the rest of the world, your states are not their own, independent country but a conglomeration of countries under federation rule. Germany is a State of Europe, Poland is a state but they are also their own country with their own dependable borders. Sadly, much of my own home has fallen victim to conglomeration and is now called the UNITED KINGDOM...tragic.

Did you know Slavery was ALREADY illegal in the Countries of Tennessee and Kentucky? NEITHER of whom wanted to be in the USA FYI, but were unfairly annexed BY FORCE.

Yes, after the war started some states of the USA began to secede based of their own politics and YES, the Confederacy took this opportunity to JOIN THE ALREADY EXISTING WAR, but this didn't happen until 1861, 4 years after the war began.

STOP CONFUSING THE RESULT OF THE WAR THE CAUSATION OF THE WAR.

The Confederacy literally took over but We, the Southern Scots still wanted our voices heard, Politics aside there were two groups under that war banner: The people fighting to become their own independent Federation ( The Confederate State) and the people started the fight (the Southern Scottish and their various other English oppressed Celt allies) who wanted to be part of neither federation but have a space of their own. That was the whole point of the New World, to get away from all that oppressive taxation and governmental rule and live free.

That's how the Southern Cross flag came to be, two groups fighting against the same enemy for DIFFERENT REASONS. Our Flag, the Scottish Cross of Saint Andrews was blended with your colors and was given 13 stars to represent NOT the confederate states but the 13 original New World Colonies and the freedom they stood and fought for. The Confederacy then adopted that design as their battle ensign.

You want to hate something, hate the people that misused my symbol of freedom not the symbol itself.

[design219]

Originally Posted by Slagwhore 

My Main point that some of you refuse to grasp is the fighting that is now called The Civil War started in 1857.

So, this is your main point in reviving this thread? Did you read the previous pages of this discussion?

Here is the point: A symbol can, and does change meanings over time... like the swastika used by Buddhist and indigenous people in America.

I don't care what it used to mean, I don't care what you want it to mean, I don't care how it's meaning got corrupted... this symbol (the flag) is now is a powerful image of racism in America.

Oh, and I am of Scottish heritage, so welcome to the MacNN forums brother.

[Slagwhore]

Originally Posted by design219 

... this symbol (the flag) is now is a powerful image of racism in America.

WRONG, it's only a symbol of hate TO YOU. Don't inject your own hatred on something just because that's how YOU feel about it


And, my main point was my entire post. The second part of my opening sentence must have been omitted. ...Fighting started in 1857, the slavery issue didn't come up til 1861 and to stop confusing the result of the war with the beginning of the war.

[Slagwhore]

Originally Posted by design219 

Does seeing this flag displayed bother anybody else, or am I missing something?

I was addressing the missing something part.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Slagwhore 

Originally Posted by design219 

... this symbol (the flag) is now is a powerful image of racism in America.

WRONG, it's only a symbol of hate TO YOU. Don't inject your own hatred on something just because that's how YOU feel about it

I think he pretty clearly stated "in America".

That's him.

Just dropping by...I'm off to hoist the swastika flag out in the yard. The police keep taking it down. Don't they understand that it's not a symbol of hate TO ME, since I grew up in Asia?

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Slagwhore 

The Confederacy literally took over but We, the Southern Scots still wanted our voices heard, Politics aside there were two groups under that war banner: The people fighting to become their own independent Federation ( The Confederate State) and the people started the fight (the Southern Scottish and their various other English oppressed Celt allies) who wanted to be part of neither federation but have a space of their own. That was the whole point of the New World, to get away from all that oppressive taxation and governmental rule and live free.

That's how the Southern Cross flag came to be, two groups fighting against the same enemy for DIFFERENT REASONS. Our Flag, the Scottish Cross of Saint Andrews was blended with your colors and was given 13 stars to represent NOT the confederate states but the 13 original New World Colonies and the freedom they stood and fought for. The Confederacy then adopted that design as their battle ensign.

You want to hate something, hate the people that misused my symbol of freedom not the symbol itself.

The part there in bold is where you acknowledge yourself that the Confederacy "took over" and "adopted that design as their battle ensign". Which basically means that the Confederacy ... which undeniably chose to secede primarily over the issue of slavery .... had essentially co-opted the casus belli for the war and thus that flag came to represent its goals and aspirations. When Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860 with virtually no support in the South because of Republican opposition to slavery, the Governor of Arkansas Henry Rector stated in his inaugural address that the crisis came down to .... "Was it to be the Union without slavery, or slavery without the Union?". Which is why the following is absolutely correct ....

Originally Posted by design219

Here is the point: A symbol can, and does change meanings over time... like the swastika used by Buddhist and indigenous people in America.

I don't care what it used to mean, I don't care what you want it to mean, I don't care how it's meaning got corrupted... this symbol (the flag) is now is a powerful image of racism in America.

But for some reason, you still don't seem to get it and you decided to persist with this dubious reasoning ....

Originally Posted by Slagwhore

WRONG, it's only a symbol of hate TO YOU. Don't inject your own hatred on something just because that's how YOU feel about it

On the contrary, it's a symbol of hate to a LOT OF PEOPLE. And it's not because people are pulling this out of their ass. It's because those who utilized the "Confederate" flag ... and let's not forget it's called that FOR A REASON ... injected their hatred onto it. Because again, it came to symbolize the goals and aspirations of the Confederacy which were rooted in the subjugation and enslavement of people of African descent. This is not a matter of opinion ... it's a matter of fact. You say the Confederate Flag has origins in the Scottish Cross of Saint Andrews. Ok fine. Just as European Christian iconography has its origins in the iconography of Ancient Kemet (aka Egypt). The point being ... there's nothing new under the sun. So this insistence you have on focusing only on the origins of the Confederate flag from the perspective of the Southern Scottish as if that somehow NEGATES what came after is a myopic view at best ... or a prime example of being willfully obtuse at worst.

Originally Posted by Slagwhore

Fighting started in 1857, the slavery issue didn't come up til 1861 and to stop confusing the result of the war with the beginning of the war.

The slavery issue didn't come up until 1861?

I suggest you do a little research about the "1850s: Decade of Crisis". Then you will see that there had been a brewing conflict over slavery going on for quite some time that came to a head in 1861 ... culminating in the Civil War. And then perhaps you won't be such a noob making astonishingly uninformed comments within your first 5 posts?

OAW

[finboy]

It bothers me, and I grew up in Redneck Central. It bothers me for the same reason that a hipster wearing an East German field jacket bothers me - most of the folks who do it have no fricking idea what it represents.

It's just a symbol, but it's been turned into this huge political device by those on the Left, so we should deny them that avenue of attack.

[Slagwhore]

Did you know that Africa still sells slaves TODAY and were doing so for hundreds of years before Columbus ever sailed? You American liberals are so American and liberal...blind.

[Spheric Harlot]

It's almost impossible not to construe that as apologism.

You're moving onto dangerously thin ice.

[design219]

Originally Posted by Slagwhore 

Did you know that Africa still sells slaves TODAY and were doing so for hundreds of years before Columbus ever sailed? You American liberals are so American and liberal...blind.

And? You have lost any shred of credibility. Go away.

[andi*pandi]

<deleted for incoherance >

[OAW]

Originally Posted by design219 

Originally Posted by Slagwhore

Did you know that Africa still sells slaves TODAY and were doing so for hundreds of years before Columbus ever sailed? You American liberals are so American and liberal...blind.

And? You have lost any shred of credibility. Go away.

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

OAW

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

True, neither Columbus nor America invented slavery... but that does not mean we should not have worked to eradicate it. Regardless of what goes on in other countries today.

Or, put another way, people have been killing each other for a lot longer than the IRA did, and they always will, so you can't really hold that against the IRA.

Er...if you say so...

[andi*pandi]

I think I used too many double negatives in that sentence.

[Spheric Harlot]

No, as far as I can see, that is what you said.

[andi*pandi]

Then I fail at getting my meaning across, because that is not what I intended.

[Spheric Harlot]

What you said, and what you claim to have intended, are the same thing.