[shabbasuraj]

I wish to buy a PDA, for I think it will be handy for those times where I am not carrying my 12" PB along with me. My only requirement is that it have built-in Wi-Fi capability.

I have been looking at the Palm units and I am not impressed with the available models.

There is more of a selection when it comes to Windows Pocket PC powered devices (HP, Dell, etc.), so I am kinda leaning to one of these, and no I do not want a SmartPhone device.

I know real work can't be done on such machines but prices have fallen dramatically over the year, and I think they can be useful to a certain degree. I plan on using the thing for random notes, and quick e-mail checking/occasional browsing for web-based e-mail. GPS capability or adaptability is not important as I already own a stand-alone Garmin unit.

Any PDA recommendations from the MacNN faithful? What are you PDA people using? What do you use the PDA for exactly? Are they really useful on a day-to-day basis?

PocketPC or Palm OS?

What are some of the downfalls of each? Software wise? Hardware wise?

How well will each 'Sync-up' with OS X? I know there are a few 3rd party programs available that aid the process with PocketPC, but how reliable are these things?

Well that is all for now, I look forward to your responses, and THANKS IN ADVANCE.

[Luca Rescigno]

Those third party programs don't just "aid" in syncing a PocketPC device. They are a requirement if you use a Mac. Otherwise, your PocketPC will not sync at all. Plam OS devices will sync just fine. You can get a third party application like Missing Sync for Palm OS devices, but I've used it and the interface is just as bad... all you get is a few extra features. Useful features, but not worth the steep $40 price tag.

Anyway, I have a Palm Tungsten E, which is a fairly low end device. But I like it. I would like WiFi, but I can't afford the Tungsten C. Still, you can find some good deals on the C in, of all places, eBay. They run around $250 there. Personally, I like the Palm OS, and I find it simple and unobtrusive. Graffiti 2 is almost as good as handwriting recognition, and you can even enable an option to let you write anywhere on the screen and create little trails to make sure you're writing clearly.

Honestly I don't know much about PocketPC devices. I have used one before, a while ago, and I remember that the handwriting recognition was quite good. And I bet you can get WiFi for cheaper than the $250-$400 you need to buy the Tungsten C. I'd do some research into which models are good of course. Then you can either check eBay (if you're willing to risk getting a lightly used unit without all the original packaging and/or accessories) or NewEgg (if you want a good deal on a brand new one).

[Peter]

be aware the new Palm OS will drop Mac support.

The Tungsten C is underpowered - probably because it hasn't been updated in a while. I'd get the next version of that, or another Palm Tungsten and a wifi expansion card. The T3 looks pretty good.

I wouldn't get a PocketPC - Windows is bad enough on the desktop, I wouldn't want it shoehorned into a pocket device.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Peter:
be aware the new Palm OS will drop Mac support.

So what ?
They will bundle MissingSync with it.

-t

[JHromadka]

Originally posted by Peter:
be aware the new Palm OS will drop Mac support.

PalmSource is dropping Mac support, but PalmOne, producer of most Palm Powered devices, is not. And now that there will be a version of PalmOS that runs on top of Linux, that could open the door to making it even easier to sync with non-Windows OS's.

[shabbasuraj]

Linux? On a Palm device? Sounds interesting, what is the projected development schedule of such software?

Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
Linux? On a Palm device? Sounds interesting, what is the projected development schedule of such software?

If you can't wait look for a Sharp Zaurus - a PDA that runs Linux.

[itai195]

Not to be a PITA, but the best PDA buying advice I can give is simply not to buy one. Unless you have a solid need for it, save your money. They are cool gadgets, but they really are of limited usefulness and you won't carry it with you unless you really need it. I've had PDAs for years and finally just gave up. I bought each one thinking it would finally solve the last one's fatal flaw, but each introduced more flaws of its own and I always ended up leaving them at home eventually. Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by itai195:
Not to be a PITA, but the best PDA buying advice I can give is simply not to buy one. Unless you have a solid need for it, save your money. They are cool gadgets, but they really are of limited usefulness and you won't carry it with you unless you really need it. I've had PDAs for years and finally just gave up. I bought each one thinking it would finally solve the last one's fatal flaw, but each introduced more flaws of its own and I always ended up leaving them at home eventually. Just my 2 cents.

What were the flaws?

Not that I disagree with you. I found I only used the calendar function, so I got a cell phone that worked with iSync and it does what I need. But I see others doing some things with PDAs that I have no use for.

[shabbasuraj]

Originally posted by hayesk:
What were the flaws?

Not that I disagree with you. I found I only used the calendar function, so I got a cell phone that worked with iSync and it does what I need. But I see others doing some things with PDAs that I have no use for.

Naturally, I gotta ask which cell phone/plan are you currently on? And it really works well with OS X?

[shabbasuraj]

Originally posted by itai195:
Not to be a PITA, but the best PDA buying advice I can give is simply not to buy one. Unless you have a solid need for it, save your money. They are cool gadgets, but they really are of limited usefulness and you won't carry it with you unless you really need it. I've had PDAs for years and finally just gave up. I bought each one thinking it would finally solve the last one's fatal flaw, but each introduced more flaws of its own and I always ended up leaving them at home eventually. Just my 2 cents.

Ye...

I can see what you are saying, but I have never owned one before, and the prices seem relatively reasonable. I understand that they are gadgets and do understand that they are essentially toys, but I think I can get some use out of one, especially if has wi-fi capability.

What were the flaws were they design/hardware flaws or were they software related? Or was it a combination of both?

[itai195]

Originally posted by hayesk:
What were the flaws?

Not that I disagree with you. I found I only used the calendar function, so I got a cell phone that worked with iSync and it does what I need. But I see others doing some things with PDAs that I have no use for.

A smartphone or cell phone with basic PDA features would really be the way to go.

Some flaws... hmm, some devices were simply too large to carry comfortably with all my other stuff. Others I couldn't sync well at work (eg I bought a PPC once just before I got a job at a company where I had to use a Mac, d'oh!). The last one I bought was a Palm Tungsten T and its MP3 function (one reason I wanted it) never worked well, so I ended up still needing an iPod. I decided the iPod got priority when carrying things in my pocket. I still wanted the Tungsten for checking e-mail, but then I got a cell phone that could do it and I'd have one less item to carry. Another problem with the Tungsten T was that I bought the full version of Docs to Go but almost always had syncing problems with it, and I was never able to resolve them. I had a Treo smartphone once but it had no expansion slot so that ultimately became a big issue. I also owned the predecessor to the Tungsten (M515 IIRC) and its screen was too hard to see. I owned a Clie T615 which I should have kept, it was a great PDA. But again that was another one where the MP3 function let me down, mainly because it was limited to 128MB memory sticks and they were really expensive at the time. The Mac syncing was also a bit iffy. Eventually I just saw the pattern and gave up on PDAs. I don't have a need strong enough that it would override all the other annoyances such that I would actually carry the device with me. I also don't think I need their functionality and that probably has also played a large role in my tendancy to eventually stop using them.

If you're just buying one as a toy and the money isn't really an issue that's no problem. But I'm just saying, unless you really see a gap that a device like this can fill for you, in a few weeks/months it'll be gathering dust in your desk drawer. For someone who is very comfortable with technology and a big gadget fan, I have to admit that PDAs in general seem to complicate my life, rather than simplify it. Managing and maintaining them, using them enough to make carrying them worthwhile, dealing with syncing issues... it's just not worth it for me.

Frankly, it's also a bad time to invest in a Palm device IMO. That company is really treading water, awaiting their inevitable demise. Whatever happened to PalmOS 6? PPCs have a brighter future, but they're never too appealing when you're a Mac user.

[Luca Rescigno]

I really like my PDA and I use it a lot. However, I do not have a cell phone. A lot of people these days talk about how PDAs are going downhill, but it's not because they're bad, it's because cell phones are so popular. Really, I don't know many people who don't own one now.

The problem is that cell phones can't do nearly as much as a full PDA. Their screens are small and their input capabilities are highly limited. However, if you already have a cell phone plan, maybe you'd be better off getting a cell phone with some PDA functions. In my case, I wanted some kind of organizer but I don't have a cell phone plan and I don't feel like buying one. So I decided to get a PDA.

[JHromadka]

Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
Linux? On a Palm device? Sounds interesting, what is the projected development schedule of such software?

See here for official details and here for an article I wrote about it.

[turtle777]

I like my T2.

Plays MP3 well, and even whole movies.
Just encoded Monsters Inc. (with Kinoma Producer and Player) and put it on a SD card. The battery lasts long enough for 3 hours movie watching ! SD card costs are a joke, just got a 512 MB for $ 25 after rebate !

Docs to Go also no problem.
Syncing with Entourage and iSync no problem either !

I'm happy with it.

-t

[shabbasuraj]

Originally posted by JHromadka:
See here for official details and here for an article I wrote about it.

Hmmm... sounds like Palm and it OS is in the midst of some major restructuring and looks like things in the PDA wolrd may get better for the end consumer.

Maybe such a move will finally make PDAs more widely accepted. From my standpoint, it always seems as if the hardware component has been adequate and/or readily available. However the software end stands to be the most problematic. Handwriting recognition, compatability between differring platforms, and file formats.

I dunno, maybe these announcement are good news? Perhaps not...?

[ajprice]

Good news, yes it probably is. But its good news for future PDA's, not current ones. Palm OS 6 is around the corner next year, the Palm T5 is s**t, Sony is packing it's Clie's up and going back to Japan with them.

Seriously, the best thing to do for now is get a decent phone, or even a top end phone like a Sony Ericsson P900 or 910 (now that the 910 is out, 900's might be going cheaper.) That way, you might decide to keep the phone because it does the job for you, or cancel the contract in 12 months time and get a PDA. My aunt was thinking of getting a Palm PDA, at the time there was an offer for last of the line P800 as a free upgrade on her contract. She went for it and is really happy with it, and also still carries one phone around, not a phone and a PDA.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by turtle777:
I like my T2.

Plays MP3 well, and even whole movies.

What software do you use to play MP3s on the Palm? Just curious.

[MilkmanDan]

Don't get 'just a PDA' get something else. For far too many people I know, a PDA is nothing more then an expensive electronic address book. That and Bejeweling device.

[mitchell_pgh]

I've given up on PDAs. I upgraded to a little notepad with a pencil (99�).
My main issues were:
- the possibility that I would drop it or lose it etc.
- the handwriting recognition was OK, but it was still slower the writing it on paper.
- I couldn't hand it to someone to have them write their phone number, email, address etc. (my pencil works perfectly)
- I want less technology in my life, not more

My Motorola v265 holds all my phone numbers and also synchs my calendar. It does the basics, but my little tablet works very well for me. I'm sure the PDA has a major advantage, but I have yet to see anyone use their PDA the way it could be used.

[shabbasuraj]

Hmmm.... thanks for all the responses. I guess I am currently leaning more towards the 'not to get a PDA side' as I think it will not properly mesh with my OS X based computing life.

The relative seamless integration with my OS of choice is perhaps my dearest requirement.

Maybe holding out for a little bit for the new versions of the currently avaialble PDA OSs maybe of benefit.

I dunno, if I see a really good deal this holiday season, or if prices keep dropping I may eventually just take the bait.

Any other recommendations, or reflections?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
Hmmm.... thanks for all the responses. I guess I am currently leaning more towards the 'not to get a PDA side' as I think it will not properly mesh with my OS X based computing life.

The relative seamless integration with my OS of choice is perhaps my dearest requirement.

Maybe holding out for a little bit for the new versions of the currently avaialble PDA OSs maybe of benefit.

I dunno, if I see a really good deal this holiday season, or if prices keep dropping I may eventually just take the bait.

Any other recommendations, or reflections?

90% of what you would use the Palm for can be had in the $79 model.

[Randman]

I used to get plenty of money out of my old Handspring Visor, and later the Tungsten 2. But in the last 6 months or so, about the only thing I use the pda is for playing scrabble or hearts or cribbage before bed.
Between the limited PDA functions on the iPod and the ever-increasing smart functions on my Series 60 phone (the Nokia 6600 and likely the 6630 by year's end), I can do just about everything I did on the pda.
Basically, it's just reducing one less thing from carrying around.

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I've given up on PDAs. I upgraded to a little notepad with a pencil (99�).
My main issues were:
- the possibility that I would drop it or lose it etc.
- the handwriting recognition was OK, but it was still slower the writing it on paper.
- I couldn't hand it to someone to have them write their phone number, email, address etc. (my pencil works perfectly)
- I want less technology in my life, not more

Don't forget it beeps to remind you of appointments. Oh wait, no it doesn't. That was my reason for a PDA. I had a Palm IIIxe, but I broke it. Then I got a cell phone with a calendar. (Motorola T720g)

My Motorola v265 holds all my phone numbers and also synchs my calendar. It does the basics, but my little tablet works very well for me. I'm sure the PDA has a major advantage, but I have yet to see anyone use their PDA the way it could be used.

The biggest reason I see for a PDA is a mobile database. Taking surveys, accessing large amounts of data, etc. Most people don't need that, so hence, don't need a full-blown PDA.

Another killer feature would be a video out port - people could then show PowerPoint slide shows without carting around their laptop. I hate PowerPoint slide shows, but corporate people eat that sh*t up.

[Timo]

Like Randman, I moved from a tungsten to a nokia 6600. Sure the screen isn't big, but it works well for what I need it to do, the battery lasts longer, and it's one less device to worry about.

[Randman]

Originally posted by hayesk:
Another killer feature would be a video out port - people could then show PowerPoint slide shows without carting around their laptop. I hate PowerPoint slide shows, but corporate people eat that sh*t up.

iPod photo.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
What software do you use to play MP3s on the Palm? Just curious.

I use RealPlayer. KinomaPlayer EX can even play AAC, but I don't have it registered.

But I don't really do MP3s on the Palm, because that's what my iPod is for...

-t

[olePigeon]

Only reason I'd get a PDA is so I can stuff an Apple //e emulator on it and try to beat Ultima 5 in under 60 minutes. I've gotten it down to just under 2 hours.

Originally posted by Randman:
iPod photo.

Yes, but the iPod Photo makes for a lousy PDA.

[shabbasuraj]

Originally posted by hayesk:
Yes, but the iPod Photo makes for a lousy PDA.

The jury is still out on the iPod photo. Personally, I feel that this particular Apple creation will have the hardest time staying around for the long haul.

I personally am looking at picking up one of those Epson P-2000 devices. I am still kinda waiting for some more reviews.

Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
The jury is still out on the iPod photo. Personally, I feel that this particular Apple creation will have the hardest time staying around for the long haul.

I personally am looking at picking up one of those Epson P-2000 devices. I am still kinda waiting for some more reviews.

Nikon Coolwalker looks good too.

But anyway, yeah, iPods are great as "read-only" PDAs, but not for full fledged ones.

If Palm could get a video out on a PDA, corporate types would love it. They can take their Office docs, show powerpoint, and edit their data on it. They wouldn't need a laptop.

[PB2K]

i just bought the SONY NZ 90

it has a 2 megapixel camera with flash. It also has bluetooth and that's handy because I bought a bluetooth GPS module along with it. This enables me to use a routeplanner on the PDA, as well on my powerbook (route 66 2004). After I hacked it, it can store data on SD card too, which are far cheaper than Memorystick Pro sticks. I should mention that it has a touchscreen, which is absolutely essential for daily use.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally posted by hayesk:
Nikon Coolwalker looks good too.

But anyway, yeah, iPods are great as "read-only" PDAs, but not for full fledged ones.

If Palm could get a video out on a PDA, corporate types would love it. They can take their Office docs, show powerpoint, and edit their data on it. They wouldn't need a laptop.

There is an adapter for recent Palm PDAs to allow video out. In addition, it includes a remote control and sensor so you don't have to walk up to the podium to change slides. Unfortunately it costs $200!

Then you could also use the iPod Photo as a presenter. Just convert your slides to images somehow and use the video out. Unfortunately it would require you to walk up to the podium every time you want to switch, unless you were able to control the pictures using one of those wireless iPod remotes. That's getting up there in price though.

A cheap, used laptop seems like the most cost-effective way to make a presentation. You could probably get a fairly nice one running Win98 or some form of Linux for under $200.

I've even been thinking of ditching my PDA to get that GBA SP memory card adapter. It'll play videos and MP3s, and of course games. Then I could use any money I have left over to get a pad and paper .

[shabbasuraj]

Originally posted by PB2K:


i just bought the SONY NZ 90

it has a 2 megapixel camera with flash. It also has bluetooth and that's handy because I bought a bluetooth GPS module along with it. This enables me to use a routeplanner on the PDA, as well on my powerbook (route 66 2004). After I hacked it, it can store data on SD card too, which are far cheaper than Memorystick Pro sticks. I should mention that it has a touchscreen, which is absolutely essential for daily use.

So I guess you bought that outside of North America? Or was that a last one/close-out type of deal? Sony pulled out the Clie line from NA earlier this year.

[PB2K]

It was bought in Holland, where it wasn't being sold as well. Someone ordered it from a country that did sell it. i bought it from that person.

[hart]

I just posted in peripherals re my coming abandonment of the Palm platform. I have tried my best with my Tungsten T and found it seriously wanting. I am a gadget freak, tech-minded but I've gotten tired of reinstalling, recalibrating, re-syncing and generally not having a functional tool to work with.

Games: bleh! I got a gameboy to carry around.

music: sort of ok, but just didn't work smoothly. plus the storage issue, ie not enough.

all those other apps: none of them really seemed worth it. I don't need to keep track of my Atkins diet or anything.

photos: once again, like music it works....ok....but not great and storage space is minimal.

calender/contacts/to dos: well, it has to be FUNCTIONAL to be worth carrying. The number of times I've tried to write something down and stylus hasn't been working, or some other problem has prevented me from actually using the thing when I needed it. It's truly embarassing to be sitting there with my expensive gadget trying to write down a simple appointment and not being able to. Not to mention extremely aggravating. Several times in the last week I wished I had that silly 79 cent pad of paper because I couldn't write down important stuff.

Apple/Palm coordination: bad. Trying to get apple software and palm software to play nice is a pain. Plus that whole division between palm hardware and software. makes it excessively difficult to solve any problems or get anything working. hard to even figure out where to look for help.

I'm probably going to be moving to an ipod based system if it seems to meet my needs. mostly I want alarms and having my contacts/calenders with me and I can do voice memos with an ipod for stuff I need to remember. Plus a little note pad for backup.

ok, that's a bit of a rant, but anyway...

[shabbasuraj]

Well.. In the end I did not end up buying a PDA, as the potential OS X integration issues were worrying me.

However, if the prices of those Dell handhelds keep dropping I may just buy one for the 'toy factor'.

As mentioned in another thread Dell handhelds seem to be packing much hardware for the price so maybe I will jump on the bandwagon the next time model revision,

[ambush]

As much as I want to be organised, I can't use PDAs..