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slugslugslug · Jan 15, 2008, 01:25 PM

Combination Airport Extreme + 500GB or 1TB HD for backing up all your Macs wirelessly.

$299 or $499. Shipping in Feb. Sound kinda awesome. Glad I waited a bit before buying an external HD and a new Airport router. Might go that route anyway, depending on how competitive this thing is price/performance-wise. But it was a great idea for Apple to offer this.

bmwparamedic · Jan 15, 2008, 01:33 PM

I think they should just allow you to back up via a firmware release to an external HDD connected to the base station.

chabig · Jan 15, 2008, 01:37 PM

I think this product fills a niche, but Apple ought to let current base station owners attach external drives for the same purpose.

bmwparamedic · Jan 15, 2008, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

I think this product fills a niche, but Apple ought to let current base station owners attach external drives for the same purpose.

exactly, I think it would be an even better idea to allow us to do that so we can swap out drives.

jasonsRX7 · 04:51 PM

What a freaking rip. First they sell the 802.11n Airport Extreme with Airdisk that doesn't work worth a crap. Then they sell it again, with gigabit ethernet, but with Airdisk that still doesn't work worth a crap. Then they sell it for a third time with the disk built in, and I guess therefor implying that the disk actually works properly this time. No thanks, I'm not buying this rehashed product yet again.

And before anyone says "my airdisk works just fine," just browse thru the topics in the forum.

Apple - Support - Discussions - AirPort Extreme (802.11n)

If Time Capsule is accompanied by an update to the AEBS that fixes Airdisk, I'll be happy. If it also enables supported TM backups to Airdisk, that'll be even better.

jcarr · Jan 15, 2008, 03:50 PM

If someone reading this is at MacWorld this week, could you please track down an Engineer or Product Manager at the Apple Booth and ask them if there will be an AirPort update that will add this functionality to earlier revs of the AE base station?

Thanks!

slugslugslug · Jan 15, 2008, 04:03 PM

I'm guessing they will enable Time-Machine-to-Airport-Disk backups for previous Airport Extremes by the time this thing ships. Can't imagine the drive looks any different from Leopard's point of view. Even though I'm now far more likely to get Time Capsule than Airport Extreme, I hope they enable Time Machine capability for the latter anyway, for the sake of all those other Airport Disk users..

JustinHorne · Jan 15, 2008, 04:17 PM

I *really* wish they would have announced this with Leopard's release, even as a "will ship in 2 months" thing. Then, I wouldn't have gone out and bought another drive, and would have bought this instead (need an airport base station...)
grr...

ajprice · Jan 15, 2008, 04:35 PM

Airport Extreme is 6.5" square, same size as a Mac mini. Time Capsule is 7.7" square, same size as an Apple TV. Wonder if there's anything in that.. connecting a Time Capsule to an Apple TV and stacking it would make a Macless TV box now as the Apple TV can get media from iTunes without a Mac.

silver · Jan 15, 2008, 05:05 PM

That's what I was thinking ajprice. That combo would be a nice addition to the Home Theatre setup.

Cheers

mduell · Jan 15, 2008, 07:08 PM

Pretty good deal, about $200 for the NAS/AP functionality on top of the drive price.

ghporter · Jan 15, 2008, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

What a freaking rip.

I haven't read too many "this doesn't work at all" posts here. Several "I'm having trouble with" and "why will it do this but not that" posts, but not "it's crap." What are your particular issues with AirDisk?

Zarafa · Jan 15, 2008, 08:36 PM

Time Capsule is pretty nifty. But...

...how do I back it up?

It just contains a single "server-grade" hard drive [I don't even know what that means in this context, because it's just SATA], which means data is stored in a very precarious environment. I'd prefer a way to back up to a drive mirror or some other level of RAID, even if Time Capsule is still the initial aggregation point.

For instance, I have a 4-drive storage server already on my home network that would make an ideal long-term more-fault-tolerant repository (available via NFS or SMB). I'm sure some users will have Windows Home Server in a similar role, or might have a Drobo they'd like to plug in via USB, or any one of several similar solutions.

Having a centralized backup solution that's not fault tolerant / redundant is going to result in a lost of lost data for someone...

jasonsRX7 · Jan 15, 2008, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I haven't read too many "this doesn't work at all" posts here. Several "I'm having trouble with" and "why will it do this but not that" posts, but not "it's crap." What are your particular issues with AirDisk?

This problem (less frequently)
Apple - Support - Discussions - Airport Extreme (802.11n) - Connection ...

And mounted Airdisks constantly disconnect and won't reconnect until I unplug the drive and plug it back in. Then it will work for maybe a few hours until it happens again. It happens with different drives, and I can plug those drives directly into my MBP or a Windows PC shared over the network and not have a problem.

Same problem with both my MBP and my girlfriends iMac, even with a fresh install of Leopard. My mounted WebDAV over the shares stay connected over the internet for weeks on end, and are more reliable for me than Airdisk locally.

mduell · Jan 15, 2008, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Zarafa

Time Capsule is pretty nifty. But...

...how do I back it up?

rsync it to another disk somewhere on your network or in your machine.

Problem solved.

ghporter · Jan 15, 2008, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

This problem (less frequently)<snip>

And mounted Airdisks constantly disconnect <snip>

Same problem with both my MBP and my girlfriends iMac, even with a fresh install of Leopard. My mounted WebDAV over the shares stay connected over the internet for weeks on end, and are more reliable for me than Airdisk locally.

Have you gotten the box replaced? Does it do this no matter where your wireless computer is in relation to the box? It looks like an "N" issue rather than an AirDisk issue (not that this makes it any nicer for you). Sorry.

jasonsRX7 · Jan 15, 2008, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Have you gotten the box replaced? Does it do this no matter where your wireless computer is in relation to the box? It looks like an "N" issue rather than an AirDisk issue (not that this makes it any nicer for you). Sorry.

It's the same whether I'm wired or wireless. I don't lose connectivity to other network shares, just the Airdisk share. And when it is working, it is sometimes (not always) very, very slow (kilobytes per minute slow), even though other network shares remain fast.

No matter which problem I encounter, unplugging the disk and plugging it back in will get it working temporarily. Yeah, I did also try another AEBS I had at work, same thing.

besson3c · Jan 15, 2008, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

rsync it to another disk somewhere on your network or in your machine.

Problem solved.

Also, how will you know when the drive in Time Capsule has failed? Can you replace the drive?

AppleGirl1990 · Jan 15, 2008, 10:48 PM

Two questions.
1st: Can you use Time Capsule as a backup via Ethernet? Seems to reference only wireless on the website?

2nd: Why sell both Extreme Base Station and Time Capsule? Time Capsule does everything and more....so there is no need for the other; right?

Snow-i · Jan 15, 2008, 10:55 PM

I wonder if you can use the built in USB port to add an external drive and set it up as a RAID?

That'd be pretty nifty.

MacinTommy · Jan 15, 2008, 11:07 PM

As i posted in the lounge.. count me in for the 500gb model once my tax returns come in!

mduell · Jan 15, 2008, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Also, how will you know when the drive in Time Capsule has failed? Can you replace the drive?

It doesn't work anymore. The drive can be replaced, but is not intended to be replaced.

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

Two questions.
1st: Can you use Time Capsule as a backup via Ethernet? Seems to reference only wireless on the website?

2nd: Why sell both Extreme Base Station and Time Capsule? Time Capsule does everything and more....so there is no need for the other; right?

Yes.

About $100. Airport Extreme looks to be very profitable.

Originally Posted by Snow-i

I wonder if you can use the built in USB port to add an external drive and set it up as a RAID?

No.

Woebgon · Jan 16, 2008, 12:38 AM

I just bought an Airport Extreme this month. Fortunately, according to the Apple CS rep I chatted with today on the computer, I can return it for a full refund and buy the new Time Capsule.

bmwparamedic · Jan 17, 2008, 01:01 AM

Has anyone found out if they are going to release this software to back up wirelessly like it was suppose to from the beginning.

besson3c · Jan 17, 2008, 01:04 AM

bmw: you can back up wirelessly with TM now

slugslugslug · Jan 18, 2008, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

bmw: you can back up wirelessly with TM now

Ooh, really? You're saying you can do this with pre-Time Capsule Airport Disk? If so, that's great news. Where'd you hear it?

besson3c · Jan 18, 2008, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

Ooh, really? You're saying you can do this with pre-Time Capsule Airport Disk? If so, that's great news. Where'd you hear it?

I don't have Airport (I find them overpriced), but you can backup wirelessly to any supported network mountable disk via AFP.

50leaves.com · Jan 18, 2008, 03:06 AM

If Time Capsule is accompanied by an update to the AEBS that fixes Airdisk, I'll be happy. If it also enables supported TM backups to Airdisk, that'll be even better.

Rumor has it 10.5.2 will fix this issue. Right now the best solution I found was to plug a drive into a machine (my iMac) for my laptop to wireless backup. I agree the airport needs to be fixed badly.

ghporter · Jan 18, 2008, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I don't have Airport (I find them overpriced), but you can backup wirelessly to any supported network mountable disk via AFP.

Yep. I have a NAS device with a 250GB drive in it that I can use for backup too. And it's accessible via SMB. The whole "wireless backup" bugaboo is overblown-it takes a networked storage device that you can mount, that's all.

I should also point out that "backup" is a lot of things-it doesn't necessarily mean that you're using some specific "backup" command or Apple-provided app. You can backup using a lot of techniques (and of course we should all already know this because we're all being good computer users and backing everything up already, right?

). The "cool" part of Time Capsule is that it's automated-a very good thing indeed. But you can automate all sorts of stuff with scripts too...

bmwparamedic · Jan 18, 2008, 12:56 PM

I didn't know you can use time machine with the regular airport base station. I'm going to try this tonight if this is true I've a very happy guy. I also have a personal backup by Intego which I love. Never had any problems making a backup I tried to backup a friends HD last night with CCC and wasn't able to get a full clone, tried 3 times.

What is the best way for us to back up two mac with time machine using a 500 gb hard drive with the airport extreme. I also want each of use to have personal space as well. would partitioning it into 4 partitions be the best bet then. Two partitions each of 200gb and one each for 50 gb for personal documents?

The Milkman · 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by bmwparamedic

I didn't know you can use time machine with the regular airport base station.

Time Machine does not work with drives connected to the base station's USB port. This functionality was removed shortly before Leopard shipped (I suspect with Time Capsule already in mind).

Apparently it can be (re-)enabled with:

defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

I'l be trying this soon since I don't believe Apple will be allowing it now that Time Capsule fills this gap.

Edit: The above fix works. Now Airdisks show up in the list of available backup disks. So no Time Capsule for me - sorry Apple ... not!

bmwparamedic · Jan 18, 2008, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by The Milkman

Time Machine does not work with drives connected to the base station's USB port. This functionality was removed shortly before Leopard shipped (I suspect with Time Capsule already in mind).

Apparently it can be (re-)enabled with:

defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

I'l be trying this soon since I don't believe Apple will be allowing it now that Time Capsule fills this gap.

Edit: The above fix works. Now Airdisks show up in the list of available backup disks. So no Time Capsule for me - sorry Apple ... not!

Can you explain in detail about how you did this?

C.A.T.S. CEO · Jan 18, 2008, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by 50leaves.com

Rumor has it 10.5.2 will fix this issue. Right now the best solution I found was to plug a drive into a machine (my iMac) for my laptop to wireless backup. I agree the airport needs to be fixed badly.

Indeed, I am in the same situation. I don't see how Apple could force users to buy the Time Capsule because it will just show up on your Mac as a standard AFP drive, unless Apple puts some kind of DRM in it so it has to be the Time Capsule or it won't work. On the other note, my AirDisk works ok, I guess that the firmware has a bug affecting only some Airports.

PS, read the forum rules about sig sizes.

Originally Posted by bmwparamedic

Can you explain in detail about how you did this?

Go into Terminal (Applications > Utilities) and copy the italic text in his post to the command line and hit enter.

The Milkman · Jan 18, 2008, 06:18 PM

Easy:
- Quit System Preferences if it is running
- Open Terminal.app (in /Applications/Utilities)
- In the terminal window, type "defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1" without the ""
- Press enter
- Launch System Preferences
- Click Time Machine icon, choose "Setup TM" if asked
- Click "Choose Backup Disk ..."
- Available Airdisks should be listed now

NOTE: This is not supported by Apple (or myself). Maybe because the backups you make this way are unreliable, maybe because they want to sell more Time Capsules. You decide.

bmwparamedic · Jan 18, 2008, 08:56 PM

How easy would it be to put it back to the default was it was before making this terminal change?

besson3c · Jan 18, 2008, 09:09 PM

The defaults Terminal command is the same command for enabling backups to other network shares as well (such as another Mac, or a Unix/Linux machine supporting Netatalk)

The Milkman · Jan 18, 2008, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by bmwparamedic

How easy would it be to put it back to the default was it was before making this terminal change?

Replace 1 by 0:

defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 0

bmwparamedic · Jan 18, 2008, 10:26 PM

I'm very tempted to do this but I'm afraid that it might cause some problems. I have both my computer and my girlfriends computer and we're both in grad school and can't afford something to go wrong at this point.

The Milkman · Jan 19, 2008, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by bmwparamedic

I'm very tempted to do this but I'm afraid that it might cause some problems. I have both my computer and my girlfriends computer and we're both in grad school and can't afford something to go wrong at this point.

From what I've read the worst that can happen is that you end up with a useless backup. So what I'm doing is backing up with TM to an Airdisk but continue making my regular backups until I'm sure TM works right.

bmwparamedic · Jan 19, 2008, 11:20 AM

I was getting read do this last night but all of a sudden I've been getting errors about time machine not being able to completely back up anymore and this is directly connected. I'm sad to say that I'm going to have to wait a week to see if this issue resolves itself before I attend the terminal fix to wireless TM backup.

bmwparamedic · Jan 19, 2008, 01:18 PM

This is what is happening is there a log anywhere in which I can find out why this is happening. I've done not terminal modifications at all.

besson3c · Jan 19, 2008, 01:23 PM

Wireless backups are not officially supported by 10.5.1. This feature is present, but it was disabled at time of shipping. The Terminal command makes this disabled feature available, but network volumes are still unsupported. My theory as to at least one reason why this feature was disabled is because it is very buggy. It takes 10s of minutes to scan a volume for changes when there are none on my machine, this should take literally no more than a second or two. The bug here is probably with fsevents, which is the Apple mechanism used to flag changes that have been made to files.

bmwparamedic · Jan 19, 2008, 01:36 PM

I agree scanning does take a very long time. I'm just frustrated that my time machine no longer works and i didn't change anything at all.

besson3c · Jan 19, 2008, 01:48 PM

TM machine is a great idea, and the design is great, but it is rather buggy as it stands now...