[Zimphire]

That with all that happend in WWII, there are people that still think being a Nazi is good.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...eut/index.html

[Logic]

F�cking idiots

[PacHead]

And all those brave french people on the train did a nice job of stepping in or coming to the woman's defense.

The woman and her baby wasn't even jewish, but I suppose the 6 barbarians who attacked her probably had a good reason for what they did.

This is nothing new in france though, it happens all the time, and these sorts of attacks have gone way up statistically.

If it ever gets really dicey for the French, they can just deport all of their jews again to the gaschambers. Problem solved.

[lil'babykitten]

[Joshua]

The Interior Ministry registered 67 attacks on Jews or their property and 160 threats against Jews in the first quarter of this year compared with 42 attacks and 191 threats in the last three months of 2003.

Whoa. Does anyone have more detailed statistics on anti-Semitism in France?

[Logic]

The Interior Ministry registered 67 attacks on Jews or their property and 160 threats against Jews in the first quarter of this year compared with 42 attacks and 191 threats in the last three months of 2003.

Seems to be taking the same direction as anti-Islamism in the U.S.

Idiots, all of them!

[itai195]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
That with all that happend in WWII, there are people that still think being a Nazi is good.

Yeah, I think it's rather scary. However, France is having all sorts of problems with xenophobia these days, they have some large-scale issues to sort out. It's clear that rising anti-Semitism, and conflicts with Muslim immigrants, aren't just isolated problems.

I think it'd be worthwhile to show some compassion toward the French and help them deal with their struggle, because their problems integrating Muslims into their culture could very well be our problems in the years ahead. Our own track record with xenophobia isn't particularly strong, either.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Logic:
Seems to be taking the same direction as anti-Islamism in the U.S.

Idiots, all of them!

Where do you get this from?

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
If it ever gets really dicey for the French, they can just deport all of their jews again to the gaschambers. Problem solved.

what???

when have the french ever deported anybody to "gaschambers"?

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Where do you get this from?

Trying to start a fight?

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Atomic Rooster:
Trying to start a fight?

I sure do miss Calvin and Hobbes! I wonder what their take would be.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally posted by PacHead:
And all those brave french people on the train did a nice job of stepping in or coming to the woman's defense.

The woman and her baby wasn't even jewish, but I suppose the 6 barbarians who attacked her probably had a good reason for what they did.

This is nothing new in france though, it happens all the time, and these sorts of attacks have gone way up statistically.

If it ever gets really dicey for the French, they can just deport all of their jews again to the gaschambers. Problem solved.

You spew nothing but vile bile! You are no better than the people who drew the swastika crosses on the graves.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
what???

when have the french ever deported anybody to "gaschambers"?

Perhaps you need to read up on your history a bit.

27/03/1942
The start of deportation of French Jews to Auschwitz.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Atomic Rooster:
You spew nothing but vile bile! You are no better than the people who drew the swastika crosses on the graves.

And what exactly am I saying that is so vile ? I am merely suggesting how the French have dealt with the issue in the past.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
27/03/1942 The start of deportation of French Jews to Auschwitz.

perhaps you need to understand cultural context.

[villalobos]

Originally posted by PacHead:

If it ever gets really dicey for the French, they can just deport all of their jews again to the gaschambers. Problem solved.

Ooh, that's real funny and tasteful joke there. Congrats.

I suggest we wait and see what the investigation brings up. There seems to be some confusion as to what really happened.

[Zimphire]

To get back on track.


http://www.splcenter.org/center/splc...cle.jsp?aid=83

http://www.americannaziparty.com/

Sad such ignorance still exists.

[perryp8]

Predictably, the story is a complete fraud:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
perhaps you need to understand cultural context.

Please explain this "cultural context" you speak of.

I said the French deported jews to camps, you said "what ?". I showed that they had done so in the past.

[Atomic Rooster]

Looks like the world got punk'd.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by perryp8:
Predictably, the story is a complete fraud:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html

How did you get "complete fraud" from that link?

[lil'babykitten]

This woman's credibility seems questionable.

Surveillance cameras at the station where the culprits reportedly left the train showed no young men running from the scene, and no witnesses have come forward despite repeated calls from officials and promises of anonymity.

Both France-Info radio and the television station LCI reported that the young woman had filed several complaints for violence and aggression in the past. Neither provided sources, but LCI said she had filed six such complaints in the past. That information could not be immediately confirmed.

[villalobos]

Originally posted by Atomic Rooster:
Looks like the world got punk'd.

Nice to see some of our most respectable members here in the forum jumping on the occasion to do a little French bashing and herefore increasing their already 'sky high' credibility. We'll see how that turns out.

[Troll]

You'd think that LCI and others would have checked out the story before reporting it. Last night, Raffarin was on TV talking about this incident and castigating the people on the train for not doing anything. You'd think he would have checked it out. Of course, we shouldn't draw the implication that French people hate jews and therefore did nothing. France has the biggest Jewish population in Europe. I just think people generally try to avoid conflictual situations on trains. That said, I was in a station in Brittany yesterday and someone had a heart attack on a TGV just opposite us. The people in the train rushed to assist. To no avail unfortunately. Still, I find it hard to believe this woman's story ... which is not to say something doesn't need to be done about the hate on all sides. The WOT and the lack of progress on the Palestinian issue has caused a lot of internal tension in France.

What's funny is that a lot of the people that complain about this incident also complain about the French government's attempts to deal with rising hate on both sides of the Palestinian conflict. Banning headscarves, yarlmukahs and other religious symbols in public schools for example. Clearly the French realise that they have a problem. It started out as hate between the Arab and Jewish community over Palestine, but it seems to be developing into anti-semitism. What would you do if you were Raffarin to stop this? I think France needs to push ahead with integration of the Muslim community and at the same time deal with the ME problem. Enough of Bush's incomptence. The effect is too severe at home. France needs to take a more active, visible role in the peace process. After their opposition to Iraq, they have some respect that they need to put to work. They should impose sanctions on Israel if it doesn't accelerate the emergence of a real, sovereign Palestinian state. For a start ...

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Please explain this "cultural context" you speak of.

I said the French deported jews to camps, you said "what ?". I showed that they had done so in the past.

you failed to mention (quite obviously on purpose) that the people who were BEHIND the deportation of these jews were the (german) nazis and maybe some of the french collaborators. this IN NO WAY reflects the attitude of the french people past/present, culturally or politically.

to align these actions with today's french, would be like blaming the genocide of native americans on michael moore.

[perryp8]

More on the 'Train of Hate' fraud:
http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?...articleID=9713

Let's see if this gets as much coverage as the original story

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
what???

when have the french ever deported anybody to "gaschambers"?

They did, in the conquered part of France, there were quite a few collaborators. But I don't think this is the point here.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
you failed to mention (quite obviously on purpose) that the people who were BEHIND the deportation of these jews were the (german) nazis and maybe some of the french collaborators. this IN NO WAY reflects the attitude of the french people past/present, culturally or politically.

to align these actions with today's french, would be like blaming the genocide of native americans on michael moore.

Well, then please read up on some history. The anti-semitic portion of the ideologic cundrum originates from a French author in the 19th century, I believe. And yes it does reflect parts of the French history, as you can see if you talk to French people.

To just tell people `it's a German (only) phenomenon' misses the point, as can be seen that those Nazis can be found also in France, the States (see Zimphire's links as well as any other country I have been to).

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Well, then please read up on some history. The anti-semitic portion of the ideologic cundrum originates from a French author in the 19th century, I believe. And yes it does reflect parts of the French history, as you can see if you talk to French people.

well, it certainly doesn't with any of the french people i have talked to. there definitely has been anti-semitism in french history, but then, there has been in almost every european country, - so that really doesn't prove anything.

though i don't exactly know who you are referring to with your "anti-semitic portion of the ideologic cundrum", you can rest assured that there was a lot of "anti-semitic" literature and ideology going around LONG before the 19th century.

but all nit-picking aside, pachead's comment was (as usual) stupid and completely out of place. the present day "anti-french" stance of the american right is just as dumb and ill founded as any kind of historical and present day "anti-semitism". imho.

and yes, neo-nazism is (unfotunately) alive and kicking in the 21st century, in places like: the us, germany, france, england, denmark, sweden etc.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
well, it certainly doesn't with any of the french people i have talked to. there definitely has been anti-semitism in french history, but then, there has been in almost every european country, - so that really doesn't prove anything.

though i don't exactly know who you are referring to with your "anti-semitic portion of the ideologic cundrum", you can rest assured that there was a lot of "anti-semitic" literature and ideology going around LONG before the 19th century.

but all nit-picking aside, pachead's comment was (as usual) stupid and completely out of place. the present day "anti-french" stance of the american right is just as dumb and ill founded as any kind of historical and present day "anti-semitism". imho.

and yes, neo-nazism is (unfotunately) alive and kicking in the 21st century, in places like: the us, germany, france, england, denmark, sweden etc.

Yes, so what was your point earlier when you pointed out that

this IN NO WAY reflects the attitude of the french people past/present, culturally or politically.

And if you admit that this has been part of European history, what do you mean by

well, it certainly doesn't with any of the french people i have talked to.

If what you are now saying that anti-semitism part of European culture, then this is exactly my point. I wouldn't restrict the discussion to anti-semitism, but racism in general.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Yes, so what was your point earlier when you pointed out that...

excuse the polemics.

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
And if you admit that this has been part of European history, what do you mean by

exactly that. none of the french people i have talked to so far seemed in any way racist or anti-semitic, or have made any historical refferences to such events/acts. and no, monsieur le pen isn't one of my acquaintances.

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
If what you are now saying that anti-semitism part of European culture, then this is exactly my point. I wouldn't restrict the discussion to anti-semitism, but racism in general.

i wouldn't exactly call it "part of european culture", but it would suffice to say that it does "occur" in almost every culture in the world (to a greater or lesser extent).

[Millennium]

A sad, sick day indeed.

But this is what happens when you try to cover up a problem by simply banning the ability to talk about it. You drive it underground, and it explodes in pockets. Better to air it out and let it prove its own foolishness to the people;

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
...

i wouldn't exactly call it "part of european culture", but it would suffice to say that it does "occur" in almost every culture in the world (to a greater or lesser extent).

Well, it does occur in every culture, and I believe in one form or the other to the same extent. For instance, if you look for anti-semitism in Japan, you would have a hard time, but just ask Koreans or bunrakunin. So that's why I talked of European heritage (referring to anti-semitism).

I talked about the events of 1933-45 with French people, especially one girl who actually did some studies to fill in the blanks in her grandfather's life, has put things into a different perspective, in particular about the resistance.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Well, it does occur in every culture, and I believe in one form or the other to the same extent. For instance, if you look for anti-semitism in Japan, you would have a hard time, but just ask Koreans or bunrakunin. So that's why I talked of European heritage (referring to anti-semitism).

i wouldn't exactly refer to "anti-semitism" as part of a culture's "heritage", no more than i would refer to a tumor as part of somebody's body. it is a very "unfortunate" cultural and societal occurence, which in a very specific way reflects the angst and ingnorance towards other cultures and people (religions) and a preceived threat steming from a "foreign" entity.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
This woman's credibility seems questionable.

But to mark down COMPLETE FRAUD. is a bit silly.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Millennium:
A sad, sick day indeed.

But this is what happens when you try to cover up a problem by simply banning the ability to talk about it. You drive it underground, and it explodes in pockets. Better to air it out and let it prove its own foolishness to the people;

Indeed.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
i wouldn't exactly refer to "anti-semitism" as part of a culture's "heritage", no more than i would refer to a tumor as part of somebody's body. it is a very "unfortunate" cultural and societal occurence, which in a very specific way reflects the angst and ingnorance towards other cultures and people (religions) and a preceived threat steming from a "foreign" entity.

The basic emotions involved are fear and a lack of self-confidence which can be found in any human being. I have encountered many forms of this `racism' (in the widest sense): Germans against Germans, black vs. white (in the States), Muslim vs. Christian, against homeless.

Of course, I see it negatively, but I see it as part of being human. I think you can work more effectively to fight it as soon as you have accepted that.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Millennium:
A sad, sick day indeed.

But this is what happens when you try to cover up a problem by simply banning the ability to talk about it. You drive it underground, and it explodes in pockets. Better to air it out and let it prove its own foolishness to the people;

Banning the ability to talk about it? Can you explain?

[perryp8]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
But to mark down COMPLETE FRAUD. is a bit silly.

You were fooled by a hoax because it fitted in with your preconceived ideas.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by perryp8:
You were fooled by a hoax because it fitted in with your preconceived ideas.

Wha? I just posted a article perry. No preconceived ideas.

ALl I am saying is, it hasn't been proven to be a hoax, and you have already called it that.

Is it because of your preconceived ideas?

I am not saying it's true. But you have indeed counted your chickens before they hatched.

[villalobos]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
But to mark down COMPLETE FRAUD. is a bit silly.

well she admitted she made that up. So much for that story.
Sad indeed.

Oops forgot to add...

You people amuse me.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by villalobos:
well she admitted she made that up. So much for that story.

Right, but at the time she had not.

[PacHead]

Yeah, I wonder how in the world anybody could have found this story to be true ? I mean, stuff like this is unimaginable in France right ?

In a morning radio interview, government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope said that whether the woman's account proved true or not had little bearing on France's need to stem hate crimes.

``The explosion of the number of racist and anti-Semitic acts committed in our country in the last few years is a reality that we must combat,'' Cope told RTL radio.

The Interior Ministry released figures last week showing that hate crimes had spiked in the first half of the year. There were 510 anti-Jewish acts or threats in the first six months of 2004 - nearly as many as in all of last year, 593.

Racist attacks were up too: There were 95 attacks and 161 threats through June, compared to 232 total such crimes reported in 2003.

[villalobos]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Right, but at the time she had not.

Maybe it will teach all of us here not to jump on a story before more is known.... kinda like these WMDs which were repeatedly found since the 'end of the war'.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by villalobos:
Maybe it will teach all of us here not to jump on a story before more is known.... kinda like these WMDs which were repeatedly found since the 'end of the war'.

You mean you don't know about the WMDs?

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
But to mark down COMPLETE FRAUD. is a bit silly.

"You can't handle the truth!"

-Jack Nicholson


We all know why you posted it...you hate the French and anyone else that told Bush to go fly a kite. Just part of your ongoing agenda. Remind you of your love slave master, Mr Moore?

Next...

[villalobos]

The saddest actually is how the whole population and political clowns were ready to believe her, just because she pretended having been aggressed by 3 kids of north african descent (les Maghrebins) and three of central Africa descent. This, more than the anti-semitism, has been and still is a huge issue in France. How do you you feel now if you are one of them in France? Like a scapegoat indeed.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Atomic Rooster:
"You can't handle the truth!"

-Jack Nicholson


We all know why you posted it...you hate the French and anyone else that told Bush to go fly a kite. Just part of your ongoing agenda. Remind you of your love slave master, Mr Moore?

Next...

Yes, this story was reported by almost nobody in the media. And why would somebody post such an insignificant story here ?

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ed...nG=Search+News

Over 1000 hits on Google News - - - The whole world reported this story.

[villalobos]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Yes, this story was reported by almost nobody in the media. And why would somebody post such an insignificant story here ?

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ed...nG=Search+News

Over 1000 hits on Google News - - - The whole world reported this story.

You, of anybody, should probably keep it low in this thread....

[PacHead]

Originally posted by villalobos:
You, of anybody, should probably keep it low in this thread....

Oh yeah really ? You favor censorship or something ? I'll say whatever suits me, thank you very much.