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paul w · Oct 24, 2005, 05:47 PM

iBelieve

A crucifix lanyard for the shuffle. No hip Christian should be without. Consumerism + Public display of faith = Yay!

Mastrap · Oct 24, 2005, 05:49 PM

Love it. Why on earth didn't I have that idea?

nredman · Oct 24, 2005, 05:51 PM

$1 from every purchase goes to charity...so the red cross will get about $10

deomacius · Oct 24, 2005, 05:52 PM

For one, it smells like a farce.

Two, do you have just as much contempt for people who have a rainbow or confederate flag on their cars? What about MADD ribbons? Livestrong Foundation bracelets? Just curious.

I see nothing wrong with a person who's strong enough in their belief to wear it on their sleeves. Especially at the risk of onlooker's scorn. Hmph.

(And no, I wouldn't wear one myself.)

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Oct 24, 2005, 05:55 PM

jesus christ that is cool

paul w · Oct 24, 2005, 05:56 PM

I have zero problems with people wearing a crucifix. I'm slightly bemused by the idea that a crucifix could become a convergance item.

Why have a plain one when one that's an mp3 player, a cellphone, a digital camera is way better.

Obviously, it may be a hoax, but a good one if so.

Weyland-Yutani · Oct 24, 2005, 06:23 PM

W-Y

SirCastor · Oct 24, 2005, 06:30 PM

This could be a springboard for a long line of shuffle accessories.
You can cap the shuffle with an Ank. Or with some complex plastic work, make it a (large) Star of David.

Seriously though, you could market different shapes and caps to iPod user's customizabilty (is that a word?). sadly, it takes away from the simplicity of the device.

Railroader · Oct 25, 2005, 01:24 AM

I don't understand some Christians and their fascination with wearing a symbol of execution. What if Christ was killed with a guilotine(sp?)?

It's His resurrection that is far more profound.

The only cross I own is a gold one my wife (then GF) gave me when we first started dating. She was Catholic at the time and didn't understand my aversion to the idea of wearing a cross. I keep it in a memento box in my closet simply because it was the first gift she gave me. Otherwise I would have thrown it out.

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Oct 25, 2005, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

I don't understand some Christians and their fascination with wearing a symbol of execution. What if Christ was killed with a guilotine(sp?)

Fear silly. You have to scare people into believing things.

deomacius · Oct 25, 2005, 01:30 AM

And I don't understand some peoples concern over how others choose to display their faith. I say more power to them. As long as it doesn't interfere with my life, we're cool.

Warung · Oct 25, 2005, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

I don't understand some Christians and their fascination with wearing a symbol of execution.

The cross is a very powerful (and ancient) symbol (of life), which was adopted by early Christians to serve their purposes. It doesn't stand for "execution" but for "life" and re-birth.

/excellent gadget!

Railroader · Oct 25, 2005, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

Fear silly. You have to scare people into believing things.

Is that why you believe the things you believe?

It's certainly not why I believe anything.

Railroader · Oct 25, 2005, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Warung

The cross is a very powerful (and ancient) symbol (of life), which was adopted by early Christians to serve their purposes. It doesn't stand for "execution" but for "life" and re-birth.

/excellent gadget!

Christ was executed on a cross. It is a symbol of His death. An empty tomb is a symbol of His resurrection and His everlasting life.

I guess that doesn't transfer well to a charm you can wear on your neck though.

Doofy · Oct 25, 2005, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Christ was executed on a cross. It is a symbol of His death. An empty tomb is a symbol of His resurrection and His everlasting life.

Way it runs over here: A crucifix (as favoured by Catholics) is a symbol of His death. An empty cross is a symbol of His sacrifice and resurrection (because He's not on it).

- - e r i k - - · Oct 25, 2005, 05:26 AM

Or what if Christ had been electrocuted?

I can dig the whole white crusifix thing though, symbol of purity, tradition and cool.

Ozmodiar · Oct 25, 2005, 05:38 AM

The cross was chosen to symbolize Christianity for the same reason December 25th (or thereabouts) was chosen for Christmas: pairing them up with the symbol and feast of the Pagan sun god was more comfortable for the people who were starting to turn to Christianity.

If he had been executed via any other means, I can't say that the cross would be the symbol of the faith. But it's not the means by which he was killed alone that made it the symbol.

Maflynn · Oct 25, 2005, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Warung

The cross is a very powerful (and ancient) symbol (of life),

Huh??
The cross was Rome's way of prolonging death and suffering, being crucified was one of the worst ways to die. The cross was viewed anything but a symbol of life. It was a horrific symbol that slowly lost its impact as Rome stopped crucifying people and the images of suffering faded from the collective minds of the citizens.

As for the symbol for Christianity, even though it was a symbol of death and for the Jews cursed symbol - being nailed to a tree,i.e., wood was considered to be a curse for the Old Testament Jews. Christians took it as a symbol of victory over death.

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

The cross was chosen to symbolize Christianity for the same reason December 25th (or thereabouts) was chosen for Christmas: pairing them up with the symbol and feast of the Pagan sun god was more comfortable for the people who were starting to turn to Christianity.

If he had been executed via any other means, I can't say that the cross would be the symbol of the faith. But it's not the means by which he was killed alone that made it the symbol.

Actually that is speculation as well.

Ozmodiar · Oct 25, 2005, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Huh??
The cross was Rome's way of prolonging death and suffering, being crucified was one of the worst ways to die. The cross was viewed anything but a symbol of life. It was a horrific symbol that slowly lost its impact as Rome stopped crucifying people and the images of suffering faded from the collective minds of the citizens.

As for the symbol for Christianity, even though it was a symbol of death and for the Jews cursed symbol - being nailed to a tree,i.e., wood was considered to be a curse for the Old Testament Jews. Christians took it as a symbol of victory over death.

Huh? ?
While the cross was an ancient Roman torture device, it had other meanings and interpretations as well. The Romans didn't invent the wheel.

Ozmodiar · Oct 25, 2005, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Actually that is speculation as well.

Well I learned it in a theology course at a Jesuit university, so I choose to believe it.

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

Well I learned it in a theology course at a Jesuit university, so I choose to believe it.

I have no problems with you choosing to believe it. I was just pointing out it was speculation as well.

Face Ache · Oct 25, 2005, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

I don't understand some Christians and their fascination with wearing a symbol of execution. What if Christ was killed with a guilotine(sp?)?

It's His resurrection that is far more profound.

I don't understand some Christians and their fascination with His resurrection.

It's what he said when he was alive that is far more profound. Many Christians seem to be missing the point entirely.

<<<Not religious, but quite likes Jesus (the man, not the legend).

Weyland-Yutani · Oct 25, 2005, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Way it runs over here: A crucifix (as favoured by Catholics) is a symbol of His death. An empty cross is a symbol of His sacrifice and resurrection (because He's not on it).

The Crucifix is not worn on one's neck. It is kept in places where you pray. It is to remind one of Crist's suffering and sacrifice. You are very correct on the empty cross.

It is a symbol of life, resurrection, hope, renewal, sacrifice and divinity. It is a core symbol of Christianity and it is sad to see the Heretics deny it. Heresy is running rampant in N-America. Why don't they call themselves something else than Christians? Because misinformation suits the devil.

cheers

W-Y

Mastrap · Oct 25, 2005, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I have no problems with you choosing to believe it. I was just pointing out it was speculation as well.

What is speculation? That early Christian missionaries took existing religious structures and made them their own? Because that's a fact. Nothing wrong with it either.

Weyland-Yutani · Oct 25, 2005, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Face Ache

I don't understand some Christians and their fascination with His resurrection.

It's what he said when he was alive that is far more profound. Many Christians seem to be missing the point entirely.

<<<Not religious, but quite likes Jesus (the man, not the legend).

Good stuff

But to answer your first line: it is because Christ was the Son of God (or so us Christians claim) and He sacrificed his Son to clean mankind of their sin. This was very important. But there is more. Then Christ is ressurected and conquers death. Proving he is devine and his words are true. Christianity came to be because Christ died and was ressurected.

Oddly there are other religions that have an opinion on this, like Islam. In Islam they vehemently deny Christ ever died. Before he was put on any cross or killed he was simply whisked up to heaven by his daddy. But that's another story..

cheers

W-Y

Ozmodiar · Oct 25, 2005, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Because misinformation suits the devil.

cheers

I'm not laughing at nor mocking your beliefs, I just think it's funny to see someone invoke the devil and then sign off on such a positive note.

Weyland-Yutani · Oct 25, 2005, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

I'm not laughing at nor mocking your beliefs, I just think it's funny to see someone invoke the devil and then sign off on such a positive note.

No pasa nada. I can see the humor in it. My faith is strong however and the power of God is with those who believe. The tempter is nothing if you don't let him into your soul.

cheers

W-Y

Doofy · Oct 25, 2005, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

The Crucifix is not worn on one's neck. It is kept in places where you pray. It is to remind one of Crist's suffering and sacrifice.

I'm not too well up on Catholic crucifix practice, but there seems to be an awful lot of crucifix necklaces available?

For example.

Face Ache · Oct 25, 2005, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Christianity came to be because Christ died and was ressurected.

Maybe so. Or maybe it was enough that Jesus lived. He had a following already, you know.

Weyland-Yutani · Oct 25, 2005, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'm not too well up on Catholic crucifix practice, but there seems to be an awful lot of crucifix necklaces available?

For example.

You are right, that crucifix pendants exist - but the empty cross is the one that is predominant. The empty cross is what the clergy wears. They never don a crucifix.

cheers

W-Y

Weyland-Yutani · Oct 25, 2005, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Face Ache

Maybe so. Or maybe it was enough that Jesus lived. He had a following already, you know.

Well to put it another way.. Christianity would not be like we know it had Christ not died and been resurrected

I do not doubt that he would still have a following. In fact he does, e.g. in Islam.

cheers

W-Y

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

Fear silly. You have to scare people into believing things.

SWF proving again, he has no clue.

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

It is a symbol of life, resurrection, hope, renewal, sacrifice and divinity. It is a core symbol of Christianity and it is sad to see the Heretics deny it. Heresy is running rampant in N-America. Why don't they call themselves something else than Christians? Because misinformation suits the devil.

cheers

W-Y

Because most of the US is Christian. It's that anti-Christian zealots that are just very vocal that makes you think otherwise. Such things usually go hand in hand with insecurity with ones beliefs.

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

What is speculation? That early Christian missionaries took existing religious structures and made them their own? Because that's a fact. Nothing wrong with it either.

No, I am speaking about the Cross. The using of the Cross specifically. That isn't factual.

Doofy · Oct 25, 2005, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

You are right, that crucifix pendants exist - but the empty cross is the one that is predominant. The empty cross is what the clergy wears. They never don a crucifix.

OK, thanks for the info W-Y.

bad_quote · Oct 25, 2005, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

I don't understand some Christians and their fascination with wearing a symbol of execution. What if Christ was killed with a guilotine(sp?)?

Heh. You are echoing my words from my days of religious debate in the lounge. Wouldn't it be messed up to see little guillitiones on top of steeples? Or what if he was drawn and quartered. Yikes. In any event, if aliens ever visit our planet they're going to think all the christians are morbid weirdos for having little symbols of boards that some guy was stapled to.

bad_quote · Oct 25, 2005, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Huh??
The cross was Rome's way of prolonging death and suffering, being crucified was one of the worst ways to die. The cross was viewed anything but a symbol of life. It was a horrific symbol that slowly lost its impact as Rome stopped crucifying people and the images of suffering faded from the collective minds of the citizens.

As for the symbol for Christianity, even though it was a symbol of death and for the Jews cursed symbol - being nailed to a tree,i.e., wood was considered to be a curse for the Old Testament Jews. Christians took it as a symbol of victory over death.

The world DID exist before Jesus, and the cross meant many things before that. Even before Rome.

http://altreligion.about.com/library...ldefssolar.htm

Mastrap · Oct 25, 2005, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, I am speaking about the Cross. The using of the Cross specifically. That isn't factual.

The cross is an ancient religious symbol that was in use way before the birth of Christianity.

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by bad_quote

Heh. You are echoing my words from my days of religious debate in the lounge.

And it was silly back then too.

bad_quote · Oct 25, 2005, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

The cross is an ancient religious symbol that was in use way before the birth of Christianity.

Not really worth mentioning, because he won't admit it. Nor will he admit that Zoroaster in mesopotamia was the one who started the whole one god thing with heaven and hell, which christianity later just stole and incorporated.

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

The cross is an ancient religious symbol that was in use way before the birth of Christianity.

AGAIN, not something I am arguing.

Just because it was USED BEFORE, doesn't equate = copied.

The cross is a very basic symbol.

That is like saying because One person uses a large circle in their logo, anyone else doing so is copying.

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by bad_quote

Not really worth mentioning, because he won't admit it.

I wont? I just did. It wasn't something I was arguing. Sometimes I think you don't even read posts Rob. You just post a reply to what you assume someone said, or is going to say. You really make yourself look silly in this approach.

Nor will he admit that Zoroaster in mesopotamia was the one who started the whole one god thing with heaven and hell, which christianity later just stole and incorporated.

I wont admit that because it's not a fact. It's a beliefe.
And BTW, the thought of such places could very well existed even before Zoroaster. Just because that is the first known "writing" of such beliefs does not = first started.

And Chrsitianity is a relatively NEW religious based on a MUCH OLDER ONE. One that has not, and probably cannot be dated. At least no one has been able to so far.

Guesses, yes. Facts, no.

Weyland-Yutani · Oct 25, 2005, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

AGAIN, not something I am arguing.

Just because it was USED BEFORE, doesn't equate = copied.

The cross is a very basic symbol.

That is like saying because One person uses a large circle in their logo, anyone else doing so is copying.

This I agree with. The Cross is a way too basic symbol to assume it can't be "invented" time and time again in different and unrelated circumstances.

cheers

W-Y

bad_quote · Oct 25, 2005, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I wont admit it because it's not factual.

Actually it is. Study history.

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by bad_quote

Actually it is. Study history.

Rob, I've studied history back when you were still pooping in your pants.

I am not saying said man didn't exist, and said man didn't have ideas of Heaven and Hell. I am not arguing that.

I am saying there is NO WAY to prove he was the FIRST to have such ideas.

It's simply not possible.

I am sorry if that busted your little bubble.

Learn to offer better arguements up to the plate. Ones that aren't so easily knocked down.

bad_quote · Oct 25, 2005, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Rob, I've studied history back when you were still pooping in your pants.

I am not saying said man didn't exist, and said man didn't have ideas of Heaven and Hell. I am not arguing that.

I am saying there is NO WAY to prove he was the FIRST to have such ideas.

It's simply not possible.

I am sorry if that busted your little bubble.

Learn to offer better arguements up to the plate. Ones that aren't so easily knocked down.

Dude. I've read specifically in text books that Christianity adopted his ideas. You lose.

Maflynn · Oct 25, 2005, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by bad_quote

The world DID exist before Jesus, and the cross meant many things before that. Even before Rome.

Never said it wasn't and while symbols like the cross were probably used before Christianity, in roman times it was not viewed as a positive symbol. I objected that the christian church used the cross because it was a postive pagen symbol. It was the other way around because Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifise people like to identify witht that by using the cross.

Mike

bad_quote · Oct 25, 2005, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

I objected that the christian church used the cross because it was a postive pagen symbol. It was the other way around because Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifise people like to identify witht that by using the cross.

Mike

Ah. Suppose you're correct then, more guilt per oz that way.

Kevin · Oct 25, 2005, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by bad_quote

Dude. I've read specifically in text books that Christianity adopted his ideas. You lose.

Yes and there are textbooks that say Christopher Columbus discovered America.

But we know there was people here before that too.

Rob, you aren't being what you like to call yourself. Logical.

Christianity got the concept of Heaven and Hell from the Old Testement.

The stories and beliefs in said book have not been dated. Why? No one can date them. No one knows when the first actual time someone repeated said story.

You cannot in ANY WAY prove this man was the first person to talk about the concept of heaven and hell.

There is simply no way to do such a thing.

Understand? If you actually don't understand what I am talking about, please say so. If you are just arguing because you want to be right regardless of the fact that you are dead wrong, then go argue with some cops or something.