[ambush]

We the people. Right.

Them the corporations.

[ambush]

We the people
Are we the people?

Some kind of monster
This monster lives

This is the cloud that swallows trust
This is the black that uncolors us
This is the face that you hide from
This is the mask that comes undone

[ghporter]

I like the new 10-it looks like an old Gold Certificate, but with nicer engraving.

US currency has to look like US currency. That's why they haven't made incredibly massive design changes-only extreme design changes.

Right now it does not have any of the features other countries use to assist completely blind people, but one of the changes to all the new bills was to make at least one denomination number bold and plain to assist people with low vision.

As for making lots more changes, remember that US currency is actually the currency for a bunch of countries. So the Federal Reserve System would be spending a lot of money printing money for other countries without compensation.

I would further point out that US currency is typically the most commonly counterfeited currency on the planet (with occasional local exceptions), so the Bureau of Printing and Engraving has to take counterfeiting seriously. The number of verification features that I know about is large. They are easy to use-many with no tools other than a strong light-and they are extremely hard to reproduce. In fact one of the more interesting recent tricks has been to bleach $5 bills and then use a laser printer to overprint a different denomination on that fancy paper. In other words, this stuff works pretty darn well at a reasonable cost to the taxpayer.

[tooki]

Come on.

Why does our money "have to" look like it always has? Many countries change their money radically every few years: look at Switzerland, another huge financial powerhouse with strong interests in preserving the value of and trust in its currency. Their bills have been completely redone many times. Did people complain? Sure! But then after a little while they get used to it and move on.

As for the replacement cost: irrelevant. Bank notes wear out quickly anyway, so all you do is replace them with new ones when they would have needed replacement anyway.

You are right: U.S. $100 bills are the most counterfeited currency in the world. Why, then, does our paper money lag behind others so very substantially in security? Our bills have a few security features, but it's peanuts compared to what, for example, Switzerland and Australia do on much smaller bills. Look at the security features of Swiss bills. They beat ours left and right. And their own page didn't even mention one feature: they're printed full-bleed, which removes the margin of error in reproduction (most printers/copiers cannot align two-sided printing perfectly).

The upshot is, I see no tenable reason for our money to be so far behind the times, when other nations with similar requirements have proven the contrary.

tooki

[ghporter]

That's the point; historically the US has NOT changed the look of its money significantly. To keep looking like US money, it has to keep looking pretty close to the same. It's a matter of the implied reliability of the bank notes; they look close to the same as they have for decades, implying that they will retain their value over a long time. Because of the history of slow change (the size has been stable since the 1930s, the portraits have been stable (at least the subject of them) since long before that) the Bureau of Printing and Engraving MUST take smaller, less radical steps, or the money would not look and feel genuine.

Swiss money is very pretty. And they have spent a lot of time and money making it hard to counterfeit. So has Australia, the UK, etc. But the anti-counterfeiting features of the $100 are very effective as long as anyone bothers to look for them. And while there are a number of known features, I'm pretty sure that there are others that aren't well known but are testable by the Secret Service. Overall it's a matter of what philosophy is used to decide what features to put into the notes.

[Mastrap]

I always liked the look of the US currency. There's just something unmistakable about it. It would be a shame to change that, IMO.

[phantomdragonz]

I got to see one at work... it looks funny with the yellow, but remember what we all said when we got the new $20's??? I like it, at least we are changing things and not keeping them the same...


Zach

[olePigeon]

The psychology behind not changing it too much, and keeping it mostly green, is to tell people that it's constant. That it's solid and that it'll always be worthing something.

...

At least as much as Candian money. (Currently at $1.14 CN. )

[tooki]

Originally Posted by ghporter

That's the point; historically the US has NOT changed the look of its money significantly. To keep looking like US money, it has to keep looking pretty close to the same. It's a matter of the implied reliability of the bank notes; they look close to the same as they have for decades, implying that they will retain their value over a long time. Because of the history of slow change (the size has been stable since the 1930s, the portraits have been stable (at least the subject of them) since long before that) the Bureau of Printing and Engraving MUST take smaller, less radical steps, or the money would not look and feel genuine.

Swiss money is very pretty. And they have spent a lot of time and money making it hard to counterfeit. So has Australia, the UK, etc. But the anti-counterfeiting features of the $100 are very effective as long as anyone bothers to look for them. And while there are a number of known features, I'm pretty sure that there are others that aren't well known but are testable by the Secret Service. Overall it's a matter of what philosophy is used to decide what features to put into the notes.

OK, so because we've let the appearance of our money languish for so long, we can't change it now? Balderdash. There's no logic in that. The fact that other first-world countries change their money regularly proves that this is not only theoretically feasible, but in fact entirely practicable. Nostalgia is not a valid reason to keep printing money with designs grounded 200 years in the past. Modern needs should outweigh that.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a study that even finds a correlation between the value of a currency and the appearance of its bank notes, never mind one that finds a causal relationship. On the other hand, there is counter-evidence that changing the notes radically does not affect the value: look at the Swiss Franc. It's been a currency that's probably more stable than the U.S. Dollar, yet has changed repeatedly over the years.

Also, it is quite obvious that counterfeit bills do devalue a currency. So weighing nostalgia vs. anti-counterfeiting means arguing that the theoretical loss of consumer confidence outweighs the real devaluation caused by counterfeiting.

As for security features: yes, there are surely some features that only the authorities are made aware of. But one of the major purposes of security features is to allow immediate authentication by anyone. That's why the feel of the paper is so important, and why easy-to-verify yet hard-to-duplicate features like holograms, microperforations, etc. are becoming more common, because they allow anyone to verify the authenticity immediately.

tooki

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

What in the world is wrong with whoever thinks this looks good. It looks like it lay on a bathroom floor for a month and they call it "More colourful".

The copy protection on it is also behind most of the rest of the world.



American money actually looked better before and that isn't saying much.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...8G3COG8E.shtml

ITS HIDEOUS! (Thank you Ambush)

[ambush]

Hideous?

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You know, living in America for the 33 years I have, the ONLY people I have heard complain about not being able to tell them apart have been Canadians. And both have been in this forum.

Funny how Americans have no problems. There are these things called numbers. And design. Each bill has a different number and design on it.

You should check it out

And some of Canada's money is cool, while some is good awefully scary.

Esp the one with "BIG BROTHER" on the front.

Yes I do complain its hard to tell them apart. But once a guy gave me a 20 dollar tip yet he said he was giving me a 5 lol

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by tooki

Why, by using crude workarounds like folding the corners?

Look at Swiss bills: they have embossed symbols for each denomination, plus each denomination is a different length and an entirely different color. That makes it much easier for those with little or no vision to differentiate them and make sure they're not being short-changed.

tooki

[FONT='Times New Roman']Canadian Bills of the latest series have bumps for the blind[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman'][/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman']http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/bankno...ssibility.html[/FONT]

[tooki]

Uhhh, yeah, we figured that out by the 6th post on this page.

tooki

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by tooki

Uhhh, yeah, we figured that out by the 6th post on this page.

Not everybody has

-t

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by tooki

Come on.

Why does our money "have to" look like it always has? Many countries change their money radically every few years: look at Switzerland, another huge financial powerhouse with strong interests in preserving the value of and trust in its currency. Their bills have been completely redone many times. Did people complain? Sure! But then after a little while they get used to it and move on.

I would think you of all people would appreciate the style of our bill... it has changed over time... (no $2 bill, no red ink previously, etc. etc.) but ever so slightly. I feel we have a wonderful design and heratig with our currency. It's recognized all over the world. Oh, my local printer changed their logo... Apple, Microsoft, IBM should as well...

Radically changing the US dollar as compared to the Swiss currency is apple and oranges. You know that. The Swiss are wealthy, but their currency isn't anywhere as recognized as the US dollar.

As for the replacement cost: irrelevant. Bank notes wear out quickly anyway, so all you do is replace them with new ones when they would have needed replacement anyway.

You are right: U.S. $100 bills are the most counterfeited currency in the world. Why, then, does our paper money lag behind others so very substantially in security? Our bills have a few security features, but it's peanuts compared to what, for example, Switzerland and Australia do on much smaller bills. Look at the security features of Swiss bills. They beat ours left and right. And their own page didn't even mention one feature: they're printed full-bleed, which removes the margin of error in reproduction (most printers/copiers cannot align two-sided printing perfectly).

The upshot is, I see no tenable reason for our money to be so far behind the times, when other nations with similar requirements have proven the contrary.

tooki

Ummm, what are you talking about? We have numerous techniques to test our bills. Have you ever actually looked?

http://www.moneyfactory.gov/newmoney.../new10#symbols

Many of what they have... we have in our new bills. And I can name a good number that they don't talk about. Please take a tour of our mint before saying something you obviously don't have a clue about.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

1. I would think you of all people would appreciate the style of our bill... it has changed over time... (no $2 bill, no red ink previously, etc. etc.) but ever so slightly. I feel we have a wonderful design and heratig with our currency. It's recognized all over the world. Oh, my local printer changed their logo... Apple, Microsoft, IBM should as well...

2. Radically changing the US dollar as compared to the Swiss currency is apple and oranges. You know that. The Swiss are wealthy, but their currency isn't anywhere as recognized as the US dollar.

3. Ummm, what are you talking about? We have numerous techniques to test our bills. Have you ever actually looked?

http://www.moneyfactory.gov/newmoney.../new10#symbols

Many of what they have... we have in our new bills. And I can name a good number that they don't talk about. Please take a tour of our mint before saying something you obviously don't have a clue about.

1. For money to be useful, it has to be secure and trustworthy. Ours has managed to maintain trust despite being woefully behind the times in security. I think my previous posts make it quite clear that I don't hold on to misplaced nostalgia with respect to something as important as money. Aside from the fact that I happen to prefer more modern-looking designs, I'd rather choose security over looks when it comes to money.

2. Do you have any idea how powerful the Swiss are in banking and finance? Their currency is an extremely important one worldwide. Your statement just told me that you don't know what you're talking about. (I've looked at currency security features for... a long time.)

3. WHOA! Four security features listed. Amazing!

The Swiss have far more publicly-verifiable security in their bank notes. Their website shows 13 security features, and presumably there are some secret ones, too. And that's with the 1995 series, already 10+ years old. There's doubtless more in the works now for the next series.

tooki

[wdlove]

As long as the security is successful that is all that matters. I know that I will get used to the new look.

[ghporter]

Tooki, Swiss franc notes don't have the power that digital data about Swiss bank accounts does. THAT is their banking power; there is almost never a time when someone cashes out a large amount of money from a Swiss account as francs-it's mostly transferred electronically or disbursed as some form of negotiable instrument.

As I said, it's a difference in stylistic and functional philosophy. Recognition is important; you could easily mistake (if you were just seeing it for the first time) some Canadian, English, and even Cayman Islands notes as being from one of the other former British Empire components because The Queen is so prominent on them. NOBODY is going to think a Federal Reserve Note is anything but U.S. currency. Think back to "Total Recall" (force yourself (and admit it was a fun movie)) and picture the Martian currency; it was "greenbacks" in red. Did you have any doubt that it was supposed to be banknotes?

I'm not saying this is the best way to go; our monetary system is out of whack on a number of levels, starting with the denominations of coins and notes. But this is WHY they have done what they've done.

The Bureau of Printing and Engraving says in its FAQ:"Why aren't the sizes of the note and portrait subject being changed?

Changing the size or figures would not improve security, but it would contribute to potential confusion for the millions of people around the world who recognize the traditional overall appearance of U.S. notes, including the portraits that are linked to specific denominations."

I should also point out that a horrendous number of automated devices would have to be completely redesigned, rebuilt, and fielded, with the concommitant cost in parts, labor and consumer aggravation, if they made truly substantial changes in the fundamental characteristics of the US notes. There is NO overwhelming surge of counterfeiting of US currency because the anticounterfeiting techniques work. Other countries may have different threats or feel other motivations for making plastic money with data-carrying metalic threads and 3-D holograms that change every year or two. We don't because we don't need to.

[tooki]

Who said anything about changing the size of bills? I sure didn't.

In Switzerland, in fact, the last release of new bills standardized their widths to facilitate vending machine bill readers. Until 1995, each bill had a different length and width -- a nightmare for vending machines. Now they differ only in length, which the machines can handle without trouble.

But even if we left the size identical, it'd make a lot of sense to design new bills with a total redesign, in order to integrate better security and accessibility features.

tooki

[TailsToo]

As long as it spends like the old bill, I really don't care.

[Oneota]

I'd prefer that it spends better than the old bill, personally.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by tooki

Who said anything about changing the size of bills? I sure didn't.

"changing the size or figures" is the point there. The combination of a particular portrait and a denomination is important to the BoP&E.

I agree that accessibility features are long overdue; anymore a blind person has to take a leap of faith when getting change. But they have obviously established the policy that they're going to only do one or two things at a time in each design itteration.

And I still believe that additional security features beyond what's now in the new notes are not needed.

[tooki]

Considering how effectively people have been counterfeiting money these days just by using off-the-shelf color printers, I think we can use every security feature we can get. I think it's plain and simply foolhardy not to!

tooki