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milf · Sep 1, 2002, 07:45 PM

I'm about ready to make the switch from my winblows-based PC world to a new Apple PowerBook. My switch has been a long, drawn-out process, filled with uncertainty about Macintosh computers. I'm sick of using Windows and have an enormous amount of good things about Macs. What do I have to loose (besides $3000)...I'm ready to give it a shot.

Now that I'm ready to buy, what configuration setup would you recommend? I want to know the works. What speed CPU? How much memory? Which video card (if I have a choice)? Someone in another thread mentioned getting a faster HD (5400 rpm)...can this be ordered through Apple or is it custom built?

For a little background info, I'm planning on using my PowerBook as my main system and practically dumping my old PC. I'm going to carry it between home and work, so that I'm not stuck with a PC while in the office. I do web development, programming, and minor graphic design as a profession.

What system would you recommend as a replace-all for my PC? I'm not looking to empty my pockets and would prefer the most cost efficient purchase as possible, but I'll sacrifice cash for performance. Any feedback is appreciated.

seanyepez · Sep 1, 2002, 07:57 PM

If you're looking to save money, endure a few more months with your PC. There are going to be nice revisions to the PowerBook in January. You'll benefit from added speed, graphics power, and connectivity.

If you don't mind not having the top-of-the-line for long, I recommend the 667-megahertzs DVI PowerBook. Don't buy RAM from the Apple Store, but do upgrade it to a whopping 512 megabytes of RAM if you intend on getting decent performance out of OS X. The 800-megahertz model's faster, but obviously, a 133-megahertz difference in processor speed won't make a huge difference in the long run; I'd rather have the extra $800.

The 800-megahertz model might be a good buy if you are going to add an AirPort card anyway. Otherwise, the 667-megahertz PowerBook is your best bet. It'll be a little louder than the 800-megahertz 'Book because it only has one fan to exhaust all the hot air. Thus, it has to spin that one fan faster. This might be an issue for you now that the operating system (Jaguar, Mac OS 10.2) uses the video card for visual effects.

PeteWK · Sep 2, 2002, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by seanyepez:
If you're looking to save money, endure a few more months with your PC. There are going to be nice revisions to the PowerBook in January. You'll benefit from added speed, graphics power, and connectivity.

If you don't mind not having the top-of-the-line for long, I recommend the 667-megahertzs DVI PowerBook. Don't buy RAM from the Apple Store, but do upgrade it to a whopping 512 megabytes of RAM if you intend on getting decent performance out of OS X. The 800-megahertz model's faster, but obviously, a 133-megahertz difference in processor speed won't make a huge difference in the long run; I'd rather have the extra $800.

The 800-megahertz model might be a good buy if you are going to add an AirPort card anyway. Otherwise, the 667-megahertz PowerBook is your best bet. It'll be a little louder than the 800-megahertz 'Book because it only has one fan to exhaust all the hot air. Thus, it has to spin that one fan faster. This might be an issue for you now that the operating system (Jaguar, Mac OS 10.2) uses the video card for visual effects.

Well. . . Maybe, yes, I suppose, I agree and not at all.

Actually, the things I'd like to comment on have to do with waiting or not first. I got a Pismo in Sept of 2000 just a few months before they came out with the first Ti G4s. I don't regret it at all. My wife still uses that outstanding laptop and I have a new 667 DVI Powerbook purchased in late May. I belong to the school of thought that says to get what you need when you need it. Powerbooks are well designed computers that will last you through another 3 or 4 revisions (probably another 3 full years from the day you buy it). They're always going to revise every computer on the face of the Earth, get used to that and your life will be much happier.

As for the noise of the laptops, the 800 is much louder. The fact of the matter is that my 667 runs very cool. The only time the fan comes on is when I'm doing something intense like playing a game or serious editing, etc. I have a co worker who has an 800 and the processor runs hot by nature. His fan is frequently on just because the computer is running. It's nice to have the extra speed but you should at least be aware of that. I have 1 gig of ram and I think you can never have enough.

Maybe there will be a new computer just around the corner, maybe not. But this current laptop does everything I ask of it, and I'm demanding.

PeteWK

iDaver · Sep 2, 2002, 03:08 AM

I agree with Sean that the 800Mhz PowerBook isn't worth the extra bucks. I have the 667 DVI and it runs great.

You get a $100 Airport card, more memory and a bigger hard drive for the extra $700 but it's still not worth it IMO.

Since you're switching from a windoze PC, you'll need that money for software.

seanyepez · Sep 2, 2002, 03:44 AM

The 800-megahertz TiBook is quieter. Period.

The 667-megahertz TiBook has to run its fan on "high" to exhaust a little less air than two fans from the 800-megahertz 'Book exhaust on "low".

PeteWK · Sep 2, 2002, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by seanyepez:
The 800-megahertz TiBook is quieter. Period.

The 667-megahertz TiBook has to run its fan on "high" to exhaust a little less air than two fans from the 800-megahertz 'Book exhaust on "low".

Really? Do you own one of the two? I do. The 800 chip runs hotter than the 667, that's simply a fact. That makes the fan (or fans) come on more often. Thus the 667 spend a greater portion of its life in silence while the 800 spends a greater portion of its life with at least one of its fans on. Period.

PeteWK

seanyepez · Sep 2, 2002, 02:55 PM

It obviously runs hotter, but it's quieter. Obviously, two fans exhausting more air at a lower RPM are going to be the better cooling solution.

Yes, I've seen both next to each other.

68k33 · Sep 7, 2002, 03:27 AM

Hi,

if you can't wait then the 667 DVI is the good deal. Spend the saved money on RAM and probably Airport (WiFi 802.11b).

I for myself have got the Ti800 DVI with 1024 MB RAM and an Cinemadisplay attached to it. The decision was neccassary after working for nearly 7 years on the Quadra 33 MHz system, which by know does not support my actual needs in professional Audio / Video and Music-Notation-Layout. And portability is a musthave in these days.

Also keep in mind, that there is always a next, better speced compi around. Therefore get a system that supports you know and try to max it out until it really makes no sence anymore (like with my Quadra). That way your Learning-curve is more efficient, and you will be more experienced with a following purchasing decision.

Regards

wataru · Sep 7, 2002, 12:24 PM

About heat and noise and whatnot... I have a rev. B 667MHz TiBook, which is generally considered to be more noisy than either of the newer models. But since I got a great product called the Laptop Bottom, and I moved my computing space to an area with good ventilation, even using Virtual PC doesn't make my fan go on high. It's really pretty quiet no matter what I'm doing.

For reference, I'm running 10.2.

Oh, and about waiting... I personally would wait. But that's because I always like to have the latest and greatest.

seanyepez · Sep 7, 2002, 01:21 PM

68k33,

How have you used a Quadra 800 for seven years?

Did you have other computers that you used for Internet browsing and more processor-intensive tasks?

justinkim · Sep 7, 2002, 05:03 PM

While there *is* always a better computer just 'round the corner, sometimes it does pay to wait. Since the Apple Expo is in less than a week, one might as well wait to see if anything gets released/announced there. Waiting for MacWorld/San Francisco is probably stretching it, though.

68k33 · Sep 8, 2002, 03:56 PM

Dear seanyepez,

I knew this would happen. But first off it is a Quadra 650.

Now, you lough at that, don't you ? Well, I must tell you first that the Quadra 650 has 132 MB RAM in it, a Soundtools Soundcard and a Hermstedt Leonardo SP active ISDN card. Oh, yes, of course it runs System 7.61 with special setups for general purpose inkl. Internet, and Audio, that is Protools 4.01 and Logic Audio Platinum 4.0.

I can tell you, that with Netscape 3.04 Gold and a good ISDN-provider internet operations are very snappy. Of course i won't get the 1,5 MBit/s, but we are talking about "browsing", arent we ? Oh yes, Netscape 2.0 is almost instantly on screen, while you yet haven't decided to release the mousebutton

I can tell you, that Logic Audio flies on that machine. Of course I don't get 128 Audiotracks with that card, but I could have with Protools III..........still. MIDI and Notation are superb in speed and timing (besides the best timing regarding MIDI still has the good old ATARI, and they supposed to start at 8 MHz....

All in all, that machine was and is rock solid, well balanced and designed. I did my final diploma with Quark and Photoshop and, yes, Office 4.21 (ugly, but strangely without a flaw) on that thingy pretty well. I could have even plugged in a second 24" Monitor, but then again I would have a new machine soon, so that went out of question.

You see, you don't have to have 40.000.000 GHz to do a lot of tasks...it is possible with 33 MHz, too. I believe that with a special optimazation of the original system and a highly efficient assembler-programming in Apps you could kick a$$ out of that Quadra that would make you wonder in our days.

Finally, how could I use it so long ? Well, it worked, and I am not likely to jump onto every bandwaggon industry seeds out.....

Originally posted by seanyepez:
68k33,

How have you used a Quadra 800 for seven years?

Did you have other computers that you used for Internet browsing and more processor-intensive tasks?

mrmister · Sep 8, 2002, 04:58 PM

Great Quadra story--I hope I get to do the same some day...maybe with my current rig.

I have a Ti 800 DVI, and I'd advise new buyers to get the 667...if you are buying right now, and not willing to wait, the 667 is at the sweet spot of benefits vs. cost. I had a weird situation where I was able to sell my Ti500 for an absurd sum to a corporation, and so I splurged.

If money is no object, get the 800...it is quieter, and the cache has a higher bandwidth rate than the 667. If time AND money are no object, wait for the enxt rev--I don't think it is too far off.

On the other hand, in what universe are time and money no object?

seanyepez · Sep 8, 2002, 05:40 PM

I'm not laughing at you for using a Quadra for all these years. If an older machine is usable, there's really no reason to upgrade. I just find it extremely hard to do any sort of research paper or schoolwork without a newer G3 in OS X on a minimum of an ADSL Internet connection. My research style demands gobs of memory and screen space (at least 1024 by 768).

A friend of mine got by with a really old computer and an IDSL connection, but his style of research is going to Google.com, opening a million search hits, and printing them all out on his laser printer. I just think that wastes paper.

I'm still using a G4 Pismo, and I've already contemplated moving up to an 800-megahertz TiBook. With newer, DDR-enabled PowerBooks on the horizon, I think I'll hold out a while longer and see what's to come in the near future. My external monitor and Pismo are good enough for me at the moment.

jstein · Sep 8, 2002, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by 68k33:
for myself have got the Ti800 DVI with 1024 MB RAM and an Cinemadisplay attached to it. The decision was neccassary after working for nearly 7 years on the Quadra 33 MHz system, which by know does not support my actual needs in professional Audio / Video and Music-Notation-Layout. Regards

Hey, 68k33 what programs do you use for Audio / video and music notation - layout and how is the powerbook performance in handling such task!!!!!!!!!!!!

iamnid · Sep 8, 2002, 07:12 PM

I'm not certain, but I think I read somewhere that the current powerbooks are being End-Of-Lifed -- meaning that new ones are likely to appear soon. Again, i can't remember where I read that so it could just be a rumor. I would at least wait until after the apple show in paris to buy a new powerbook though.

As for your question about hard drives -- you can get a 5400rpm hard drive from apple as a built-to-order option but I believe they charge $400 for that! You could probably save some money by installing a 5400rpm drive yourself, but then again I don't know if you want to be opening up your expensive powerbook.

As I don't actually have a powerbook, I can't say if the stock hard drives are especially slow to the point where you will really want/need a faster one.

If the powerbooks are upgraded soon, it is likely that the lowend model will be 800mhz... so if you can wait it will be like getting the current high end model for the lowend price.

68k33 · Sep 9, 2002, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by jstein:

Hey, 68k33 what programs do you use for Audio / video and music notation - layout and how is the powerbook performance in handling such task!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am still in a sort of testing phase, that is mainly getting to know OSX.

Currently I have installed Logic Audio Platinum 5.3 for OSX, but haven't started to test it.

For music-notation (which is quite good in Logic Audio) I have downloaded the Demo of Sibelius 2.0. I am likely to start testing it soon. I am still waiting on a Demo of Finale for OSX, which is anounced.

I have no further Hardware (e.g. Audio-hardware) attached, so everything will be tested with what is build into the book.

Harddiskrecording is a different story for now and will be adressed next year with a seperate Protools-HD-like System, when I have finished my studio-planings. Into that equation comes also Videostuff with FinalCutPro and DVDStudioPro.

To give you an impression, I recently showed my friend, who had purchased a cheap superstore-PIV-2 GHz-Laptop-Monster, what the book can do. Run Cinema and internal display, started DVD in Normal Window, started MPG ITunes, started Previewmode in printing a large document, started IE on internal screen surfing with ADSL and did File Operations and moving windows too. Additionally I started Quicktimemovie to play, while browsing in finder and watching another Quicktimemovie in its file-overview. All at the same time without major flaws.

euphras · Sep 11, 2002, 02:29 PM

Quote: "I just find it extremely hard to do any sort of research paper or schoolwork without a newer G3 in OS X on a minimum of an ADSL Internet connection. My research style demands gobs of memory and screen space (at least 1024 by 768)."

The trick is to use appropriate software. I have a 6100@60 MHz and Word (5.x.y.) actually flies on this machine (that where the times when programms where so small to have some app�s together saved on three or four floppys (for the youngsters: one floppy could take 1.44 MB). Also vector graphics using Macdraw (claris) just rocks. Of course you can�t insert hi-res graphics into your documents but for word processing it�s just fine...

Pat

Ganesha · Sep 11, 2002, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by euphras:

The trick is to use appropriate software. I have a 6100@60 MHz and Word (5.x.y.) actually flies on this machine (that where the times when programms where so small to have some app�s together saved on three or four floppys (for the youngsters: one floppy could take 1.44 MB).

If memory serves, Word 5.x is also running in 680x0 emmulation! I remember installing (via, floppy swapping) the first PPC native version of MS Word on my old 6100/60, it ran WAY slow!

seanyepez · Sep 11, 2002, 06:12 PM

I still don't think I could use anything slower than a 233-megahertz G3 iMac with gobs of RAM...

Timothy Maxwell · Sep 15, 2002, 02:35 AM

Forget the wait. I went crazy the same way just a few months ago when I bought my TiBook 800. I carried the stupid thing around in the unopened box for a month before I gave up waiting. When I finally opened the box and started using the thing I just loved it. You will too.

It is the best laptop on the planet. I own about 10 PC's but my workstation and portable computer is a mac.