[fireside]

is it ever coming smeger? i want:

-new themes to always start out with Aqua.
-ShapeShifter preview function things

[wibs]

Originally posted by fireside:
-new themes to always start out with Aqua.
-ShapeShifter preview function things

maybe i'm just dense, but I have no idea what you just said.

[justinp]

New themes consist of whatever elements are currently installed. If you aren't running Aqua, you don't get Aqua. Personally I think the option to start with Aqua instead of the installed theme would be better.

The previews inside ThemePark don't work like the preview function in ShapeShifter does (i.e. a few things aren't applied when you preview in ThemePark).

Yep, just dense.

[Dragon T]

I'm sure it will arrive when it is ready. =)
Meanwhile, the existing ThemePark is working just fine for me. =)

[fireside]

Originally posted by justinp:
New themes consist of whatever elements are currently installed. If you aren't running Aqua, you don't get Aqua. Personally I think the option to start with Aqua instead of the installed theme would be better.

The previews inside ThemePark don't work like the preview function in ShapeShifter does (i.e. a few things aren't applied when you preview in ThemePark).

Yep, just dense.

yeah wibs. forget your kawfee tonight?

[wibs]

Heh, I guess so .

Since smeger hasn't responded yet, I'm 99% sure I can speak for him when I say that the preview in ThemePark doesn't work like it should because it requires ShapeShifter functionality, which would mean APE and ShapeShifter would both have to be installed for the preview to work. Without a working preview mode, ThemePark would essentially be cripplied for non-SS users, and I don't think they want to make that move. It would also be a bunch of work to rewrite the preview to use SS.

I've seen smeger post that enough times to recite it from memory. That scares me.

As for the default theme elements being aqua, that makes sense to me. There just needs to be an option to revert to the current functionality.

[mac15]

If you want themepark to always startoff in aqua then ad it to the list of unchanged apps in Shapeshifter.

[smeger]

Hey Guys,

ThemePark 1.4 is in active development and already has a few new goodies (nothing huge, though).

wibs pegged it exactly regarding ThemePark's preview. I get enough crap about allegedly being a monopolist (I'm not!) - can you imagine what I'd get if I made ThemePark depend on having ShapeShifter installed?

Nonetheless, I'll resolve this issue at some point so that ThemePark's preview works like ShapeShifter's and doesn't require APE or ShapeShifter, but it'll be a lot of work, so it'll be awhile (ThemePark will basically need ShapeShifter built into it behind the scenes).

Theme Preview needs a serious revamp all around, it's no longer at all sufficient.

(If anybody's wondering, I'm leaning towards giving it an interface that has an outline view of all of the different themeable elements on the left side of a window. The right side would contain all states of the currently selected element. I think this would work a lot better than the mishmash that's currently there.)

Regarding starting off in Aqua, as Mac15 mentioned, you can get this effect by adding ThemePark to ShapeShifter's exclude list. ThemePark uses the existing theme as a base for a couple of reasons - one is to allow people to easily make modifications to an installed theme. Hmmm, I guess that's really the only reason.

Anyway, I've pretty much decided to write direct importers for guiKit, dlta, xscheme, and theme into ThemePark so people can read published themes directly instead of needing to go through the import process to make a theme editable. I'd always planned to do this, it was just something I'd never gotten around to writing. But one of the design goals behind guiKit was that themes only contain themeable elements that the designer had actually modified, and not any Apple-copyrighted stuff. Lots of people are importing everything from a theme (including stuff that the original designer didn't modify, which means Apple-copyrighted stuff), making modifications, and redistributing. This is bad because they're distributing Apple-copyrighted stuff, and because it makes the resulting guiKit larger than it needs to be. The downside is that the current method puts a slight barrier in the way of people modifying existing themes, which some theme devs like. Direct importers also mean that the theme metadata is preserved when making mods (author, preview, etc.).

I'm open to comments on this, but if nobody changes my mind, I'm going with direct importers.

[Dragon T]

smeger:
Is there any way to give ThemePark the option to check the scheme and strip out any elements that match those already in Apples OS gui?

change of topic:
Smeger, have you ever had Apple call you up, trying to either hire you to help install a new Themeing feature in future OSX versions, or trying to shut you down, (like the Kaleidoscope creators were worried would happen to them)?
I would think that you are getting good enough for them to be interested in you.
=)

[mac15]

Originally posted by smeger:
Anyway, I've pretty much decided to write direct importers for guiKit, dlta, xscheme, and theme into ThemePark so people can read published themes directly instead of needing to go through the import process to make a theme editable. I'd always planned to do this, it was just something I'd never gotten around to writing. But one of the design goals behind guiKit was that themes only contain themeable elements that the designer had actually modified, and not any Apple-copyrighted stuff. Lots of people are importing everything from a theme (including stuff that the original designer didn't modify, which means Apple-copyrighted stuff), making modifications, and redistributing. This is bad because they're distributing Apple-copyrighted stuff, and because it makes the resulting guiKit larger than it needs to be. The downside is that the current method puts a slight barrier in the way of people modifying existing themes, which some theme devs like. Direct importers also mean that the theme metadata is preserved when making mods (author, preview, etc.).

I'm open to comments on this, but if nobody changes my mind, I'm going with direct importers.

Thats very cool indeed , I'm all for a revamping of the UI. Make the theme making process a bit quicker. Something that would be really awesome if app skins like Safari could be forced to use say push buttons (the resources atleast) as the back/forward/reload ect and the glyphs be added as an extra. Ofcourse the gylphs would need to made from scratch or copied over but it could turn into a huge time saver for themers. Sorry if this sounds like gibberish hopefully somebody will understand me.

[smeger]

Originally posted by Dragon T:
smeger:
Is there any way to give ThemePark the option to check the scheme and strip out any elements that match those already in Apples OS gui?

I think this is a good idea. Added to my "desired features" list.

Thanks for the compliment! But, nope, Apple's not ringing my phone off the hook.

Mac15, something along the lines of your feature request is currently number one on my ThemePark wish list. My current priority is making it easier for newbs to create themes.

And, in case that statement causes people to deluge me with possible ways of doing it, I've already got a fully fleshed out gameplan, no comments needed at this point.

[fireside]

Originally posted by mac15:
Thats very cool indeed , I'm all for a revamping of the UI. Make the theme making process a bit quicker. Something that would be really awesome if app skins like Safari could be forced to use say push buttons (the resources atleast) as the back/forward/reload ect and the glyphs be added as an extra. Ofcourse the gylphs would need to made from scratch or copied over but it could turn into a huge time saver for themers. Sorry if this sounds like gibberish hopefully somebody will understand me.

imo themepark's interface is horrible.

[Dragon T]

Originally posted by wibs on behalf of smeger:
...the preview in ThemePark doesn't work like it should because it requires ShapeShifter functionality, which would mean APE and ShapeShifter would both have to be installed for the preview to work. Without a working preview mode, ThemePark would essentially be cripplied for non-SS users, and I don't think they want to make that move. It would also be a bunch of work to rewrite the preview to use SS.

Here's an idea:
If the Shapeshifter preview was added to ThemePark alongside the themePark preview.
and if ThemePark checked to see if Shapeshifter was installed before running the better preview that it was able to run.
Or... alternately, (and this might be easier) what if ThemePark only had its own preview built in, but checked for shapeshifter, and if SS is present, then it runs the Shapeshifter preview remotely. If not, it runs its own preview. (This would possibly involve modifying SS a little.)

Here's a request:
Would it be possible for the preview to include all parts of the theme?
For example the tabs are not in there.
I tend to use the preview to remind me which parts are left to be done.

[fireside]

Originally posted by Dragon T:
Here's a request:
Would it be possible for the preview to include all parts of the theme?
For example the tabs are not in there.
I tend to use the preview to remind me which parts are left to be done.

especially the mini and small variants.

[smeger]

Originally posted by Dragon T:
(implementation suggestions for a better ShapeShifter/ThemePark preview)

I need to build the ShapeShifter stuff into ThemePark anyway for a couple of other features, so that's the direction I'm going to go. Any of your suggestions would have worked, but I prefer fixes that give me a bunch of stuff for free, so this is the way I'm going to go.

The idea I proposed above for the new interface for the preview app would include all themable elements. The left side would contain a "source outline" of elements. The right side would contain all states for the selected element - large, small, mini, selected, disabled, clear, in all possible permutations.

So, one section of the left side might be something like (this is just a partial example):

Code:
Aqua Buttons
	Checkboxes
	Push Buttons
	Radio Buttons
	Segment Buttons
Metal Buttons
	Push Buttons
	Segment Buttons

Selecting one of those would show every fricken' possible state of the selected item in the right side of the window. Dig?

[fireside]

Originally posted by smeger:
I need to build the ShapeShifter stuff into ThemePark anyway for a couple of other features, so that's the direction I'm going to go. Any of your suggestions would have worked, but I prefer fixes that give me a bunch of stuff for free, so this is the way I'm going to go.

The idea I proposed above for the new interface for the preview app would include all themable elements. The left side would contain a "source outline" of elements. The right side would contain all states for the selected element - large, small, mini, selected, disabled, clear, in all possible permutations.

So, one section of the left side might be something like (this is just a partial example):

Code:
Aqua Buttons
	Checkboxes
	Push Buttons
	Radio Buttons
	Segment Buttons
Metal Buttons
	Push Buttons
	Segment Buttons

Selecting one of those would show every fricken' possible state of the selected item in the right side of the window. Dig?

well what are you posting here for?

GET BACK TO WORK.

[Dragon T]

sounds like a huge job.