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Click-Clack: The Mechanical Keyboard Thread
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subego
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Jan 31, 2022, 06:32 PM
 
Behold!



Still like blues the best, but prefer the Cherry RGB Blue to stock. Some of the Gaterons sound nice, but way too much wobble.

Greens are not bad.
( Last edited by subego; Feb 1, 2022 at 01:52 PM. )
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Jan 31, 2022, 07:58 PM
 
I suddenly got onset CT at the beginning of the pandemic and almost went down this rabbithole of split mechanical keyboards, but just ended up with a Logitech ergo keyboard and mouse. Couldn’t be happier. Bullet dodged for now…
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subego  (op)
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Jan 31, 2022, 08:19 PM
 
Ironically, considering how much I’ve become obsessed with mechanical keyboards, I don’t do anywhere near enough typing to have CT issues (knock on wood).

Even more ironically, I do 90% of my typing on my phone.

Even more ironically than that, what computer typing I have been doing lately is on an Apple keyboard, the antithesis of clack.
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 31, 2022, 09:52 PM
 
For everyone who loves mechanical keyboards and creative alliterations of swear words, I recommend Chyrosan's Youtube channel. This guy is the man when it comes to mechanical keyboards. Want to know what an Eastern German keyboard from the 1980s is like? Or what people typed on when they worked on terminals in the early 1970s? Or in a production room of the BBC in the 1990s? Or on some obscure PC from Japan made with its own operating system? Or the Sega Genesis (?) dev kit? He's got you covered.

I'm going to let my inner keyboard snob show: I almost don't count Cherry and Cherry-compatible switches as mechanical. They are, hmm, not good. Alps-type switches are far, far better. And buckling springs even better.

I'm typing this post on a Matias Quiet Pro. Does that keyboard use my favorite switch? No, probably #4. But all the switches I like better are loud. Matias' clicky version of the switch is far better (#2 or #3 on my all time favorite list). But it is so loud that when I had a Matias Tactile Pro and had to switch rooms at uni, my new room mate told be (before moving): here is a catalog, pick a new keyboard. Money is no object, but it has to be quiet.

Here's my list:

(1) IBM Model M: by far the best keyboard I have tried.
(2)/(3) NeXT Keyboard and Matias' clicky Alps clone
(4) The quiet Alps clone by Matias

Here are switches I don't like:

- Anything with Cherry-type switches: the tactility is near zero, the sound not very pleasant and the feel just mushy.
- Topre switches. I know that some aficionados don't even consider them mechanical switches, yes, but they are found in high-quality keyboards. Don't like the feel at all.

Here are switches I'd like to try:

(0) IBM Model F. In fact, if I had $350 laying around, I'd buy a reproduction of the F77. By all accounts it is better than the
(1) Older keyboards with original Alps switches
(2) IBM's OG beam springs switch (Please put on head phones before playing.)
(3) Apple Extended II (yes, I missed the Mac era when they were current.)
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jan 31, 2022, 10:24 PM
 
Hahaha so you’re just throwing money directly into the toilet then? Man I love hobbies
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OreoCookie
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Jan 31, 2022, 10:58 PM
 
Keyboards are an affordable hobby, especially if you are looking for very obscure keyboards. Chyrosan has gotten very lucky by simply visiting his local recycling center when he lived in the UK. I can confirm that, I once found a completely decked out Mac II fx with all the fixings. Still ran.

When I bought my last proper Model M, I think I paid $120 for it. Much cheaper than my other hobby, cycling. Still, when I explained my wife why I'd want to spend as much as I did on my last road bike, she sighed and said that at least I wasn't into cars. (Or boats for that matter.)
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Laminar
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Feb 1, 2022, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
she sighed and said that at least I wasn't into cars.
Ouch.

I've said for a while now that car guys are the equivalent of horse girls.
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 1, 2022, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I'm going to let my inner keyboard snob show: I almost don't count Cherry and Cherry-compatible switches as mechanical. They are, hmm, not good. Alps-type switches are far, far better. And buckling springs even better.
Hating Cherry switches seems to be a prerequisite of keyboard snobbery.
     
MacNNFamous
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Feb 1, 2022, 01:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Still, when I explained my wife why I'd want to spend as much as I did on my last road bike, she sighed and said that at least I wasn't into cars. (Or boats for that matter.)
fuck
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 1, 2022, 02:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
pick a new keyboard. Money is no object, but it has to be quiet.
     
andi*pandi
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Feb 1, 2022, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Matias' clicky version of the switch is far better (#2 or #3 on my all time favorite list). But it is so loud that when I had a Matias Tactile Pro and had to switch rooms at uni, my new room mate told be (before moving): here is a catalog, pick a new keyboard. Money is no object, but it has to be quiet.

(3) Apple Extended II (yes, I missed the Mac era when they were current.)
When we first started working from home I had a white apple keyboard (from an emac) and once on a zoom I was multitasking (and I type quite fast) and on the zoom I can hear, "Can someone stop typing?" so I had to mute.

Now I have the stupid flat keyboards.
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 1, 2022, 04:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Now I have the stupid flat keyboards.
These are awful, but my unpopular opinion is they’re also way better than they have any right to be. I wouldn’t say they’re quiet though. I think one of the reasons I like them is how noisy they are when you bottom-out hard, which I always do because there’s no travel.

After consulting my magic switchboard, the Cherry Silent Red is the quietest, and it’s pretty darn quiet. It feels… okay I guess. I don’t like linear switches.

I’m sure Oreo will chime in on the Matias options.
( Last edited by subego; Feb 1, 2022 at 05:59 PM. )
     
reader50
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Feb 1, 2022, 06:25 PM
 
I've used a Tactile Pro before, and have a Quiet Pro today. Not sure if I've tried the old IBM keyboards or not. Maybe in school.

subego, that's an interesting test keyboard you pictured. With all the different keyswitch types. Got a link?
     
OreoCookie
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Feb 1, 2022, 08:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
These are awful, but my unpopular opinion is they’re also way better than they have any right to be. I wouldn’t say they’re quiet though. I think one of the reasons I like them is how noisy they are when you bottom-out hard, which I always do because there’s no travel.
Agreed.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
After consulting my magic switchboard, the Cherry Silent Red is the quietest, and it’s pretty darn quiet. It feels… okay I guess. I don’t like linear switches.
Yeah, whether you like linear, tactile or clicky is purely a matter of taste — or the taste of your neighbors. I prefer clicky, am ok with tactile and like linear switches the least. Gamers seem to prefer linear switches. Tactile switches can be quiet, too, though.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I’m sure Oreo will chime in on the Matias options.
Alps-style often have two rubber bits that are figure-eight shaped. They dampen the impact when you bottom out keys, and that is very effective. (Have a look at Chyrosan’s video on the Matias light linear, quiet switches for some stenographer keyboard project.) Of course, that adds some mushiness, but you can’t really avoid that. They also lack a click leaf for obvious reasons, but add tactility.

However, there are plenty of tactile switches with a more pronounced tactile bump in the force curve, construction matters. My quiet Alps clone switches have much more tactility than Cherry’s MX blue switches. And they are smoother, too.

Another source of noise is key caps and the construction of the case. Some cases allow for sound to reverberate around, which enhances sound.
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subego  (op)
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Feb 1, 2022, 09:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
subego, that's an interesting test keyboard you pictured. With all the different keyswitch types. Got a link?
Not a useful one unfortunately. Sold out. I got mine from a scalper with one left.

https://kbdfans.com/products/kbdfans...ter-all-in-one

Here’s what they have in search.

https://kbdfans.com/collections/switches-tester
( Last edited by subego; Feb 1, 2022 at 10:34 PM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 1, 2022, 10:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Gamers seem to prefer linear switches. Tactile switches can be quiet, too, though.
The Gateron Silent Brown is quiet. The noise it makes is higher-pitched than the Cherry Silent Red, so it sounds a touch louder to me. Less bump than I like.
     
OreoCookie
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Feb 1, 2022, 11:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The Gateron Silent Brown is quiet. The noise it makes is higher-pitched than the Cherry Silent Red, so it sounds a touch louder to me. Less bump than I like.
I don't think I have tried all flavors of Gateron switches. But typically, Cherry MX-compatible switches are limited by the physical form factor. Cherry MX Brown switches are also very quiet, but I couldn't think of a reason why I'd find typing on them enjoyable. Apple's notebook keyboards give me much more tactile feedback and pleasure, despite the tiny travel they have.

In principle, the quietest switches are linear switches. That is because you can make contactless linear switches (e. g. Reed switches or Hall effect switches) and by definition all mechanisms that introduce tactility or clicks are absent. My aforementioned swear word idol Chyrosan has quite a few videos on very old linear switches (e. g. foam and foil switches), which are super smooth when clean. Or on Reed and Hall effect switches that are insanely reliable and smooth. And insanely expensive.

The achilles heel of many switches, including Alps-style switches is dirt. I have had keys go bad on my Tactile Pro and my Quiet Pro. That's a metric that is more difficult to judge. I think Cherry-style switches are performing better here.
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subego  (op)
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Feb 2, 2022, 01:45 PM
 
Browns make about the same amount of noise as Reds, which I guess is good for a tactile switch, but still noisy to me. Not Blue noisy obviously.

I finally figured out why I hate the Gaterons. I was saying they wobble, which isn’t quite right. What they do is spin, and it’s yucky.
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 2, 2022, 01:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
subego, that's an interesting test keyboard you pictured. With all the different keyswitch types. Got a link?
Looking it over, this appears to be the same thing with a different style of key caps, and is in stock.

https://kbdfans.com/collections/swit...rofile-keycaps
     
OreoCookie
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Feb 2, 2022, 10:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Browns make about the same amount of noise as Reds, which I guess is good for a tactile switch, but still noisy to me. Not Blue noisy obviously.
There are a few options if you insist that your keyboard be super quiet. Matias’s linear quiet switches are very quiet, but they are linear and light by design. So perhaps that may or may not be up your alley.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I finally figured out why I hate the Gaterons. I was saying they wobble, which isn’t quite right. What they do is spin, and it’s yucky.
Welcome to the world of keyboard switch nerdery and snobbery. key wobble is a real thing, an important factor while typing. A wobbly key may make your keys feel unstable.
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CharlesS
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Feb 3, 2022, 12:16 AM
 
If you want a quiet mechanical switch, check out the Boba U4. It's damn near silent.

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
subego  (op)
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Feb 3, 2022, 08:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
There are a few options if you insist that your keyboard be super quiet. Matias’s linear quiet switches are very quiet, but they are linear and light by design. So perhaps that may or may not be up your alley.
Oh, I’m just passing along the wisdom of the magic switchboard.

For myself, I want extra clicky.
     
Laminar
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Feb 3, 2022, 09:43 AM
 
Anyone want to do a typing speed test?

https://www.typingtest.com/challenge...gwpm=98&ferr=8

     
subego  (op)
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Feb 3, 2022, 10:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Anyone want to do a typing speed test?
No.
     
andi*pandi
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Feb 3, 2022, 11:13 AM
 
I backspaced to fix typos which killed my speed but improved my errors.
https://www.typingtest.com/challenge...gwpm=68&ferr=2
68 WPM
-31%
97 2 typos
+5%
66 WPM
-27%
Your best score
on medium text

Tried again with only a little backspace fixing:
74 WPM
-24%
100 0 typos
+9%
74 WPM
-18%
Your best score
on medium text
     
Laminar
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Feb 3, 2022, 11:52 AM
 
Did it again. Same difficulty, but new text to type.

     
subego  (op)
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Feb 3, 2022, 12:55 PM
 
21 on my phone, one handed. Though I did use my other hand to support the phone.

I’d say reality is faster because I can “rely” on autocorrect.
     
ghporter
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Feb 12, 2022, 06:34 PM
 
My dermatologist's office is equipped with mechanical keyboards. They look like this:


Just. Like. This. The whole "makeup" scheme and everything...

Now I'm seeing the dermatologist because decades of sun exposure (and who know what else) has led to "issues" with my skin requiring actual treatment. But it seems like every dermatologist has to have some level of cosmetic practice. Sigh...

Anyway, I remember Alps keyboards and their distinctive feel, and while I couldn't necessarily identify which was which by feel, how Cherry keyboards were different. But I also remember how HORRIBLE ergonomics were when every office suddenly had a computer or two...

My own CTS issues came from this, long before I learned better, and even longer before I became an occupational therapist and treated other people's CTS issues. No matter how clicky the feel of a great mechanical keyboard, unless you use it right, you're going to someday wind up not being able to feel your index finger, or aching for no apparent reason.

Today I use a combination of Apple keyboards (laptop and stand-alone), along with a Zagg keyboard for my iPad. The lack of physical satisfaction from the way the keys feel is not as big a deal as when I had to give up on slamming the carriage return lever to the right while on a righteous typewritten rant.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
   
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