[tightsocks]

Okay, this isn't really that bad, but I'm wondering how this happened.

Apparently, my mom deposited some money into my bank account (on purpose, not an accident).

We don't use the same bank and she does not know my account number, but she does know which bank I use.

Can anyone just walk into a bank and say I'd like to make a deposit into this person's account??

[Uncle Skeleton]

Deposits, yes. Withdrawals or balance inquiries, no.

[imitchellg5]

Yeah it's not hard for others to make a deposit. But like Uncle said, that's about all they can do.

[tightsocks]

I don't like it.

[Dork.]

I'm surprised they let her do this without an account number. Since when has a bank in the US provided that level of service?

[Ghoser777]

I'll accept her funds if you don't want them.

[ghporter]

She probably knows your birth date (I would hope!) and maybe even your Social Security number. By identifying the recipient of a deposit specifically, a good banker should be able to make such a deposit happen, even if the account number isn't handy.

And she GAVE YOU MONEY. What's making you unhappy about that? She almost certainly did not get any other information than "the deposit has been processed." You can tell her "thanks mom, but I had plenty of money already," if you want.

[imitchellg5]

He doesn't seem mad, just curious.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

She probably knows your birth date (I would hope!) and maybe even your Social Security number. By identifying the recipient of a deposit specifically, a good banker should be able to make such a deposit happen, even if the account number isn't handy.

And she GAVE YOU MONEY. What's making you unhappy about that? She almost certainly did not get any other information than "the deposit has been processed." You can tell her "thanks mom, but I had plenty of money already," if you want.

Wouldn't the deposit slip receipt have the account balance on it?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Often the deposit slip doesn't show the balance unless you ask for it. When it's a different person making the deposit, they definitely don't show the balance (even if you ask).

Most don't show the full account number either, regardless of who made the deposit. Not that your account number is a big secret, anyone you ever write a check to knows it.

[tightsocks]

What is to keep some gangster from picking a random name out of the phonebook and making large deposits into someones account to launder the proceedes from their criminal enterprise and then pressuring the account owner to disburse it according to their demands??

[Ghoser777]

My guess is if the amount to deposit is significant enough, that could raise a red flag with the bank.

And essentially the same thing could happen if a gangster decided to hide money in your backyard.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by tightsocks 

What is to keep some gangster from picking a random name out of the phonebook and making large deposits into someones account to launder the proceedes from their criminal enterprise and then pressuring the account owner to disburse it according to their demands??

Over here, anything over €10,000 raises a flag.

Also, that's a fairly ridiculous scenario.

[tightsocks]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Over here, anything over €10,000 raises a flag.

Also, that's a fairly ridiculous scenario.

"Bank Shock Horror: Terror gang deposits $9999.99 to pensioners account."

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

Wouldn't the deposit slip receipt have the account balance on it?

Not necessarily. If you make a payment to some other entity, do you get their bank balance on your payment receipt? Further, that would constitute a breach of the account owner's privacy, while simply accepting the deposit and confirming that it was made would not.

This is of course speculation. We don't know what bank was involved, nor particularly where it was. If the OP's mom went into his regular branch location and clearly identified him as the recipient, and people there recognized her as his mom, that's a completely different thing from Mom in Dubuque making a deposit on his account when he lives in Milwaukee. Without more info, we can't do anything but say either "I don't see this as a problem" or "that's odd and disturbing."

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by tightsocks 

What is to keep some gangster from picking a random name out of the phonebook and making large deposits into someones account to launder the proceedes from their criminal enterprise and then pressuring the account owner to disburse it according to their demands??

The phone book won't have enough personal information to uniquely identify the person targeted. Name and address aren't enough-haven't been for a very long time-to identify someone for a financial transaction. I would of course recommend that one's real personal info, like date of birth, be maintained very securely-and if it's been compromised, that one inform one's bank about as quickly as any other person or agency.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Over here, anything over €10,000 raises a flag.

Also, that's a fairly ridiculous scenario.

Same in the US: Anti-Money Laundering - CFTC

-t

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Deposits, yes. Withdrawals or balance inquiries, no.

Not true. Once at Washington Mutual I explained that I forgot my wallet, but I needed to withdraw $7500 for tuition. All I did was recite my social security number, and they printed me a cashier's cheque.

I reported the bank to the FTC after I did that.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The phone book won't have enough personal information to uniquely identify the person targeted. Name and address aren't enough-haven't been for a very long time-to identify someone for a financial transaction. I would of course recommend that one's real personal info, like date of birth, be maintained very securely-and if it's been compromised, that one inform one's bank about as quickly as any other person or agency.

I wouldn’t say your date of birth is exactly “real personal info” to be safeguarded. After all, all your (real) friends will know it, and it’s quite easy to track someone’s birthday down. Your SSN and account number are much more personal.

(Incidentally, do American SSNs include your birthday?)

Not true. Once at Washington Mutual I explained that I forgot my wallet, but I needed to withdraw $7500 for tuition. All I did was recite my social security number, and they printed me a cashier's cheque.

I reported the bank to the FTC after I did that.

Sort of similar story here. Had lost my wallet with both my bank cards and all my valid ID, had ordered new ones, but needed a bit of cash for the next week when I’d be without cards. I recited my SSN, my account number, and showed them some non-valid ID (university student card and social security card—our social security cards don’t have photos), and the cashier gave me the 500 DKK (≈$100) I needed. I didn’t report them, though.

But most corporations can be ‘buttered’ to bend the rules a bit if you’re lucky. I managed to fly to and from Munich in February without valid photo ID, too.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

(Incidentally, do American SSNs include your birthday?)

no.

-t

[Uncle Skeleton]

Bank security is more about enforcement and retribution after the fact than it is about prevention. Same with credit cards. Mistakes happen, there's no getting around that. They don't let that fact get in the way of serving the customer, as much as that's possible. IOW, they work for the rule, not the exception. After the exception happens, they refund you and call the police. This is the basic philosophy. Not security through obscurity. Not with secret knowledge that you must take with you to the grave.

[SpaceMonkey]

For real paranoia check out this guy:
DMV Sends D.C. Resident A Driver's License -- Just Not His - DCist

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

(Incidentally, do American SSNs include your birthday?)

No. Doesn't have anything on it except your SSN. Technically it isn't supposed to be a form of identification, but since nearly everyone has a unique SSN, every company uses the SSN as a form of identification.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

No. Doesn't have anything on it except your SSN. Technically it isn't supposed to be a form of identification, but since nearly everyone has a unique SSN, every company uses the SSN as a form of identification.

Over here, your SSN is your date of birth + four digits (yeah, we’re not that many, we don’t need more than that to make it unique). I just realised that I have no idea what an American SSN is made up of. Wikipedia to the rescue on that one, of course.

[ghporter]

US SSNs are made up of three segments. The first, 3 digit portion identifies (or used to) the relative locale you lived at when you applied. For most people born in the last 20 years or so that is pretty much their place of birth. The second element, two digits, used to reflect something about your year of birth, but now they are just "group numbers" that are relatively randomly assigned. The last 4 digits are a "serial number" that is assigned sequentially once the first two elements are established. The "area number" can only go up to the mid 700s, real numbers NEVER have an element as all zeros, and the area number 666 is not used.

With all that said, here in San Antonio, in the Veterans Affairs department clinic I use, there is another person with my last name AND identical last 4 digits.

When I joined the military my "serial number" was simply my SSN, which means that this information is in zillions of different places, ready to be compromised. When a (stupid) VA employee "took work home" to include a laptop with personal information on as many as half a million veterans on it-and had it stolen from hims through being even more stupid, MY information, my WIFE's information, and the information on a number of my friends was compromised. Even though printed products now only disclose the last 4 digits, the computers still have the whole thing. We have for far too long depended on this simple tax and pension identification number as a universal identification number, and as a society we're paying for it in losses to identity theft.

[Sealobo]

for a retail bank, you need to quote the exact account number to make a deposit.

and no the teller shouldn't confirm with you the name of the account holder even if you've provided the account number.

and no you can't deposit money with just a name. if they let you do that, then they're also admitting such person has an account at that particular bank and that's a privacy violation.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Sealobo 

for a retail bank, you need to quote the exact account number to make a deposit.

and no the teller shouldn't confirm with you the name of the account holder even if you've provided the account number.

and no you can't deposit money with just a name. if they let you do that, then they're also admitting such person has an account at that particular bank and that's a privacy violation.

Not to argue at all, but while the rules you just stated sound very reasonable, can you cite where they come from?

I have a relative who is a bank examiner for the US Federal government, and I've asked him what the actual rules are. I haven't heard back yet.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Not to argue at all, but while the rules you just stated sound very reasonable, can you cite where they come from?

They might not be law, but they sure are common sense.

Now, we all know how reality can be quite different than common sense.

-t

[tightsocks]

Originally Posted by Sealobo 

for a retail bank, you need to quote the exact account number to make a deposit.

and no the teller shouldn't confirm with you the name of the account holder even if you've provided the account number.

and no you can't deposit money with just a name. if they let you do that, then they're also admitting such person has an account at that particular bank and that's a privacy violation.

These were my initial thoughts as well.
However, upon reflection, they are probably not realistic.

When you write a check you are giving away your bank and account number, so they are not exactly secret info.

As a practical matter, I guess there is no real reason to prevent these types of deposits.

[tightsocks]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I have a relative who is a bank examiner for the US Federal government, and I've asked him what the actual rules are. I haven't heard back yet.

Very cool.

I would be interested to hear if there are any specific regulations or guidelines about this.

[Sealobo]

Originally Posted by tightsocks 

These were my initial thoughts as well.
However, upon reflection, they are probably not realistic.

When you write a check you are giving away your bank and account number, so they are not exactly secret info.

As a practical matter, I guess there is no real reason to prevent these types of deposits.

i was only referring to cash deposit.

Upon issuing a cheque, of couse you're disclosing a few more details; the counter-parties rely on those to act and clear the transaction.

BUT STILL, the teller shouldn't tell you at spot regarding the information validity written on the cheque. you will only find out when the cheque is actually cleared or bounced. Or else, anyone can write a fake cheque and make a deposit for gathering intel.

no offense, but what do these tellers know in the state or elsewhere in the world.. only the swiss take banking secrecy seriously.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Sealobo 

no offense, but what do these tellers know in the state or elsewhere in the world.. only the swiss take banking secrecy seriously.

Pfff, those are the good old days, long gone.

-t

[ghporter]

Here is the reply I got to my inquiry about federal rules on deposits:

Originally Posted by Ed the Fed

Generally, there are no restrictions on depositing funds into someone else's account, especially if you have the account number. However, the bank would not release any information on the account to someone other than the account holder(s), such as balance, transactions, SS#, etc. Cash transactions over $10,000, large check amounts, etc. would trigger increased scrutiny/reporting by the bank. Please let me know if you or anyone else want to deposit money into my account (LOL).

So it appears that as long as you can uniquely identify a customer, you can put money into their account any time you want.

[tightsocks]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Here is the reply I got to my inquiry about federal rules on deposits:So it appears that as long as you can uniquely identify a customer, you can put money into their account any time you want.

Interesting.
Thanks Glenn

[iMOTOR]

So then, if you deposit a bogus check into someone else’s account, will they get charged a fee when the check shows up insufficient?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

So then, if you deposit a bogus check into someone else’s account, will they get charged a fee when the check shows up insufficient?

Why would they ?

Except, of course, if they immediately spend the money, and then get overdrawn on their account.

-t

[iMOTOR]

Have you ever deposited a check that turned out to be insufficient?

The receiver of a bad check gets nailed for the value of the check plus a $35 fee.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

Have you ever deposited a check that turned out to be insufficient?

The receiver of a bad check gets nailed for the value of the check plus a $35 fee.

What ? The receiver ? Never heard of that.

It's the issuer that gets nailed.

-t

[The Final Dakar]

Knowing banking its probably both.

[Person Man]

There needs to be a law passed that the social security number can only be used by specific groups for specific purposes only, and outlaw its use as a general identification number.

The only places where it should be used are 1) employers, for employment purposes (obviously, since that was what social security was established for) 2) tax purposes, 3) banks, again for tax purposes. It has no business being used by cable companies, apartment rental, large purchases not involving credit cards, car loans or mortgages, telephone companies, electric companies, etc.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

What ? The receiver ? Never heard of that.

It's the issuer that gets nailed.

-t

Not sure about personal accounts, but for business accounts the receiver definitely gets nailed. This is why retail stores who accept checks prominently post a bounced check fee: the store gets nailed by their bank with a fee, and they pass that fee (plus a little bit) along to the customer when they finally track them down.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

Not sure about personal accounts, but for business accounts the receiver definitely gets nailed. This is why retail stores who accept checks prominently post a bounced check fee: the store gets nailed by their bank with a fee, and they pass that fee (plus a little bit) along to the customer when they finally track them down.

Bank fees can be successfully negotiated to zero fairly easily. And yes, one can even wire money to someone else's account at a different bank without knowing the account number if one knows other information such as name and mailing address. I have done both and the latter was accomplished automagically via computer without human intervention on either end. Computers do what they are told to do.
sam

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by SVass 

Bank fees can be successfully negotiated to zero fairly easily.

Yes, they can. It's easier when you do it individually on a one-time basis, but for a business that accepts many checks a day it's a lot easier to pass that fee on to the person who bounced the check in the first place, especially when their check-processor charges them a fee.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

Have you ever deposited a check that turned out to be insufficient?

The receiver of a bad check gets nailed for the value of the check plus a $35 fee.

If YOU deposit a bad check into your account, you are sure to be assessed fees. If someone else does, that's a different story.

[d4nth3m4n]

So you're telling me your grandmother knew her maiden name?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

If YOU deposit a bad check into your account, you are sure to be assessed fees. If someone else does, that's a different story.

I suspect that you would still get a fee. Someone should try it out and report back to us.

[torsoboy]

There are many times that people put money into other people's bank accounts. The most common are when families experience a tragedy and an account is setup in their name at a local bank... anyone can go in and donate to the family to help them cope with the tragedy.

I put money into my sister's bank account once for Christmas when she was needing some help. I didn't have her account number, and I didn't even know for sure that she had an account at the bank. I gave them a name, an address, and her maiden name. The address was incorrect (they wouldn't tell me the address on record), but they said they had a match on the first + maiden name with an address in the same city, so I had them put it in that account. They wouldn't confirm additional information about the account, but luckily it went to the correct account. When they gave me a receipt for the deposit, the teller used a black marker to cover to the balance and account number.

I had an experience with a bank similar to olePigeon's: I went to use my debit card at an ATM and it didn't work, so I took it into the bank and said "I just tried to use my debit card and the ATM couldn't read it. Can I get that fixed?" The teller just said "Sure! Let me see the card, and you type in your new PIN number on this keypad." I typed in my number, she swiped the card and re-encoded it, and away I went. No account number or name even given.

I didn't report them, but I never trusted them with my money after that.

[Spheric Harlot]

BTW, saying that a "relative accessed your bank account" because they deposited money into it is like saying that I accessed your mailbox by sending you a postcard.

[Laminar]

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

BTW, saying that a "relative accessed your bank account" because they deposited money into it is like saying that I accessed your mailbox by sending you a postcard.

-t