[ShortcutToMoncton]

I've been slowly building a solid home stereo system - always subject to future upgrades as income allows of course - and really starting to enjoy the process. One bonus of finding quality older used equipment in good condition is that you can usually buy and then sell without spending or losing a lot of money - it's just a good opportunity to hear different equipment and sounds for relatively cheap.

I've been on a jazz kick lately and listening to a lot of the classics: Miles, Coltrane, Ellington, Armstrong, Holiday, etc. etc. I've also been re-listening to some of the early Tom Waits material. Of course like most people I found jazz hard to "get into" but over the past few years it seems like I'm starting to appreciate it a lot more. There is probably a direct correlation between that and "getting old/boring" but that may or may not be life. When I feel like rocking out there's always Led Zep or ISIS or what have you, but I'm starting to find that enough of my energy is channelled into my work day and it's nice to relax and just be able to listen while doing other Life Things.



My receiver at the moment is a Yamaha CR-2020, a very nice little late-70s model that throws out about 105 watts into 8 Ohms I think. I've always had a changing rotation of speakers, but things have started to settle down a little as I find models I particularly like. I've got an early-80s pair of Boston Acoustics A200 speakers (3-ways with a 10" sub, 5" mid and 1" tweeter), which had an unusual wide-and-flat design that allowed them to be placed flat against a wall. Obviously it wasn't a trend that other manufacturers (or even Boston) eventually followed, and the bass response was somewhat limited by the design, but they sounded surprisingly good for $600 in early-80s money and take up very little floor space - really a great pickup and can be found for about $150 today.



My latest acquisition is a pair of Energy 22 Reference Connoisseur speakers from the late 80s. These are two-way models with a 1.5" tweeter and a 7.5" woofer - they're fairly legendary models from Canada and were famous for throwing remarkable sound (rated 25Hz to 45Hz!) out of beautiful cabinets (mine are somewhat of a collecter's item, made for a trade show in the late 80s and are a red-stained version of their birds-eye maple). These are a few steps up from the A200s in terms of price - mine were over $3000 when new, and would probably float well over the $1000 mark today based on the name and the unusual finish - and of course the sound is reflective of that, particularly in the low end. They're a lot more inefficient than the A200s and I'd eventually like to spend a couple grand on a dedicated amp for them, but that will be a few years down the road. I'm toying with the idea of using the Energy speakers as mains, the A200s as rears, and matching a centre channel in a future home theatre/music setup, but that will be at least a few years down the road and is probably a ridiculous idea anyway. For the moment I'm keeping both sets though - both for the sound and the space flexibility (the Energys are much more floorspace-hungry and definitely want an amp upgrade!).



My other speakers are also made by Energy - they're mid/later 90s floorstanding models called the Pro Series 4.5s. I got them for apartment/condo use because they're front-ported and can be placed a little closer to the back wall, and as a two-way with two 5.5" woofers and a 1" tweeter they were easy to run and didn't have a full low-end that would get me kicked out of my place! Sadly with the new Energys (in the background in that picture) I've had to place them up for sale, but they still did me quite well for many years.

Ummmm... yeah. What about you?

greg

[ort888]

I listen to Justin Beiber on my Zune.

[Laminar]

In b4 cash.

[Doofy]

At this point I shall preemptively state that:

1) Spheric is right about cables.
2) "Jazz". Hahaha.

[The Final Dakar]

That Yamaha must weigh a ton.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

2) "Jazz". Hahaha.

YouTube - can't kill rock - kids in the hall

Bobby: You and I are mortal, but rock and roll will never die.
Mr. Gorgenchuck: Now that's just where you're wrong Bobby. Recent studies show that rock and roll is, in fact, dying.
Bobby: What?
....
Bobby: How long...has rock got?
Mr. Gorgenchuck: According to a computer model, three years. About the time you'll be graduating.
Bobby: Then I'll live each day like my rockin' last!
Mr. Gorgenchuck: Where as I will look forward to the dominance of jazz!

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

That Yamaha must weigh a ton.

Yeah, the wood really adds some weight. It's probably 50 to 60 pounds I'd imagine. The Energys are about 80lbs each (damn heavy for their size - well built!) and the A200s are about 60lbs each or so I think. Makes for a terrible time when moving...

And: haha oh come on, jazz has great moments too...

[scaught]

Watain and Car Talk podcasts from ipod through cassette adapter in my VW Golf.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

And: haha oh come on, jazz has great moments too...

I played a jazz record once and found it had a great groove to it.
...the lock groove.

[Shaddim]

Wilson Audio MAXX mains with Wilson WATCH center and surrounds, my subs are a custom EBS build with four Memphis LVS SE 15" drivers (the same as what's used in Wilson Thor's Hammers). For amps I use Crown (for the subs) and Krell for everything else, and have a new Integra Research DHC-80.1 (birthday gift).

I listen to just about everything, except modern country and hip-hop/rap.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Wilson Audio MAXX mains

Haha damn. Those alone are $50+ grand I would imagine. I hope to Ca$h you picked them up for $300 on Craigslist.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Haha damn. Those alone are $50+ grand I would imagine. I hope to Ca$h you picked them up for $300 on Craigslist.

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...d/#post3788636

[TheoCryst]

Not much of an audiophile myself. I'm just listening to a Beatles track (Please Mister Postman) on my iPod at work right now.

[downinflames68]

Hype Machine.

Latest Songs From MP3 & Music Blogs / The Hype Machine

****ing amazing, way better than Pandora.

[imitchellg5]

Vuvuzela Dance House.

[Kerrigan]

Teh clamor of daily life.. mostly through my eers.

[dav]

ipod, infiniti's "studio on wheels", and vienna acoustics speakers paired with rotel amp. sunday, saw william fitzsimmons perform at a local place.

[starman]

That Yamaha 2020 is an ass-kicking system. My dad bought one in 1978 and still uses it. I've been meaning to buy myself one.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yeah, it's a great old amp for the price. And that's the thing with old audio equipment: you don't get most of the cool new features, but you can pick up quality gear for a lot cheaper than buying new stuff. A 105wpc amp with great sound quality like this one would almost certainly be $600+ from what I've seen.

(And it's interesting to note that these were built when audio companies were still pretending that their claims accurately described what the machine could do. If you buy a modern Yamaha or Sony that says 100wpc, you can bet that you're not getting that unless you want to fry the thing.)

Unfortunately these Energy speakers are pretty power-hungry - apparently that's part of how they got such absurdly good low-end from small(ish) 7.5" woofers. I've been warned that I probably won't hear their full potential until I upgrade to something a little more modern, but I'm going to be skeptical and take the "slow but steady" approach.

greg

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by dav 

vienna acoustics speakers

They make some really nice-looking speakers. Have never seen or listened to a pair myself though. What model do you have?

greg

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Yeah, the wood really adds some weight. It's probably 50 to 60 pounds I'd imagine. The Energys are about 80lbs each (damn heavy for their size - well built!) and the A200s are about 60lbs each or so I think. Makes for a terrible time when moving...

That's twice as much as I was expecting.

I was given an old AKAI when I was a little kid as a starter system and I remembered I was always needed someone to move it for me whenever I rearranged my room (which was often).

[dav]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

They make some really nice-looking speakers. Have never seen or listened to a pair myself though. What model do you have?

greg

bach. i'd consider the finish to be furniture grade. nice sound, non fatiguing, a little warm. i liked them a little better than the paradigm reference and b&w 600 series at the time of purchase. my amp is a rotel rb-981, which i think pairs nicely.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yeah - well it's pretty big to be sure. And the wood casing goes all the way around the machine, so that's a good deal of weight.

Similarly to the car industry, the later 70s was when audio manufacturers still didn't care too much about weight and size, and figured that using quality components and building stuff like a tank was the way to go. By the 80s, cost-cutting measures were fully in style and they began to see how light and cheap things could be made - using plastic instead of metal, etc. etc. In general I get the sense that the 80s was a terrible time for audio equipment (as well as cars!), as everyone still had to figure out that there was some acceptable base level between cheaper components and a quality product.

Of course, this was a $600 receiver in 1970s dollars when new, I think. If you are paying over $1000 for a stereo receiver today, you would also expect it to be a well-made product, right? Electronics are such a ubiquitous product today - I have a six-year-old Harmon/Kardon stereo receiver (rated at 85wpc - drives my bookshelf speakers) that I picked up a couple weeks ago for $100. It's a decent enough name, too. Almost everyone makes cheap stuff today it seems.

[The Final Dakar]

The AKAI was also in a wood casing. There's no way it was 50-60 pounds though, as I was able to lift part of it and 50-60 pounds would have been close to what I weighed back then.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by dav 

bach. i'd consider the finish to be furniture grade. nice sound, non fatiguing, a little warm. i liked them a little better than the paradigm reference and b&w 600 series at the time of purchase. my amp is a rotel rb-981, which i think pairs nicely.

Yeah I was going to grab a RB-981 last year but the guy sold it out from under me. Ended up getting the Yammy for cheaper of course, so couldn't complain too much. That amp is supposed to be a little on the warm side as well from what I understood, so perhaps it brings that out in your speakers?

I'm always surprised at how light speakers have gotten over the years. I assume it's because of advancements in MDF or "making" wood or whatever? Those are probably about the same volume as my Energys (slightly narrower and shorter, same height but goes all the way to the floor whereas mine have a curved integrated stand as you can see above). However, they're about 80lbs for the pair, whereas the Energys are about 80lbs per speaker. That's quite the difference. Definitely makes them easier to move - mine are a two-man job just to do anything with them!

greg

[dav]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

However, they're about 80lbs for the pair, whereas the Energys are about 80lbs per speaker.

well, i've got the base filled 3/4 with sand, so maybe a little heavier, but 80lbs/speaker is quite a lot!

[Sealobo]

I just bought a pair of Audioengine A2. It's so good some of the 128k Mp3s that i have now sounds like crap.

[Railroader]

Jars of Clay and David Crowder Band on my iMac through Tivlo Model Two system w/opt. subwoofer.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I had various computer speakers over the years, but recently got a 27" iMac and went audio-out to an H/K receiver and Polk Audio RTi4 shielded bookshelf speakers. I've decided to go with the iMac as my main multimedia machine and at the moment I like the setup. The speakers are a tad light on the bottom end (which you'd expect of course), but otherwise sound very nice....

greg

[ghporter]

Sirius' Classical channels, mainly, though right now I'm listening to their New Age channel. Amp is a Sony media receiver (kinda old) model STG-DG600. Speakers are really nice, but not even name brand-I got new midrange cone/drivers about 10 years ago to replace dried out cones. I have 14ga all-copper pairs going to the speakers (I finally broke down and soldered banana jacks to 'em 'cause I got tired of trying to get 'em in the binding posts that aren't really binding posts).

[macaddict0001]

Originally Posted by Sealobo 

I just bought a pair of Audioengine A2. It's so good some of the 128k Mp3s that i have now sounds like crap.

Maybe its just me, but I find that 128k mp3 sounds like crap on $40 headphones.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Yeah - well it's pretty big to be sure. And the wood casing goes all the way around the machine, so that's a good deal of weight.

Similarly to the car industry, the later 70s was when audio manufacturers still didn't care too much about weight and size, and figured that using quality components and building stuff like a tank was the way to go. By the 80s, cost-cutting measures were fully in style and they began to see how light and cheap things could be made - using plastic instead of metal, etc. etc. In general I get the sense that the 80s was a terrible time for audio equipment (as well as cars!), as everyone still had to figure out that there was some acceptable base level between cheaper components and a quality product.

Of course, this was a $600 receiver in 1970s dollars when new, I think. If you are paying over $1000 for a stereo receiver today, you would also expect it to be a well-made product, right? Electronics are such a ubiquitous product today - I have a six-year-old Harmon/Kardon stereo receiver (rated at 85wpc - drives my bookshelf speakers) that I picked up a couple weeks ago for $100. It's a decent enough name, too. Almost everyone makes cheap stuff today it seems.

Nice tank, and definitely has some juice per channel. One thing though.. it wasn't that shit was made better back then, because for the most part it wasn't. See: cars, most things... etc. The difference with audio is this: There were no cell phones. No vcrs. No DVDs. No internet bills. No computers really. People had TV, which sucked, and audio. Audio was the only medium that people could really collect and enjoy on their own time.. so if you were making decent money back then... you could spend a larger percentage of your income on AUDIO, and not all the other things I just mentioned.

This is why the build quality is so amazing in older gear.

PS: My quadraphonic receiver cost $760 when new. In 1976. That's almost $3000 in today's dollars. Crazy stuff:

[Laminar]

Only one picture? And not even of your own stuff? What's happened to you?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by macaddict0001 

Maybe its just me, but I find that 128k mp3 sounds like crap on $40 headphones.

When I hooked up my Polk bookshelfs I tried a test with 128k MP3 and 256k MP3 w/VBR ripped in iTunes, and then playing straight from CD (also from iTunes on my iMac). Computer is hooked up to a Harmon/Kardon 3375 receiver (thru audio out).

Of course I'd like to try with a dedicated CD player (not to mention a good set of speakers/headphones) but I had to temporarily leave mine behind during a recent move.

Anyways, I couldn't tell the difference between 256k and CD on U2's Joshua Tree album. Went through the first 4 songs - switching back and forth at the same spot - and for the life of me I wasn't picking up the difference. After a while I would "start" to think I was hearing something, so I got my wife to do the switching while I sat back with my eyes closed... nope. I was just guessing. I could tell when comparing with 128k though, but it was slight enough that I figure if I was using the iMac speakers I wouldn't notice.

Have you tried with 256k? Could you pick it out? I'd like to do it with some good cup headphones (or like I said a better audio system) and see if it would make a difference.

Of course, I used heavy equipment for extended periods during my summer job and probably don't have the best hearing range....

greg

[downinflames68]

I do 192kbps AAC. It sounds better than a 256kbps MP3, with a smaller file size.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Whoops. My bad. Just took a look again and I guess I meant AAC. 128 AAC vs. 256k AAC vs. CD.

I've taken to ripping CDs using Apple Lossless. I've been slowly going back over the CD collection and re-ripping them all (maybe a couple a day or less, whenever I think to pop one in).

I figure with a 1-terabyte hard drive and several external drives I never use, there's really not much reason to be using lossy files anyway. I can always convert them to AAC if space becomes an issue, but, well... it's not an issue, that's the point. Well, my 32gig iPod complains of course, but with the way sizes are going up it won't be much of a problem in a few years - I needed a reason to wait for a 256 gig iPhone anyway.

I guess you don't notice a difference with the 192 AAC?

greg

[downinflames68]

Nope. 192 AAC and 256 AAC sound basically the same. I'm sure there'd be a difference if I really tried to find it... but... come on. They sound great.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yeah. I didn't try 192, but definitely wasn't hearing improvement after 256 (again, given the limitations of my system).

But one thing I have noticed is that some of my older AACs and MP3s are getting corrupted or something. Not sure if that makes sense, but now and again I run into songs with hiccups, when I know I used to play them all the time and would have re-ripped the CD had I noticed a problem. Not sure if it's because all my music got transferred from disk to disk pretty regularly or what. Hopefully it's not a hardware thing. Not sure if the lossless ripping will cure that problem or not but who knows....

Interesting quad receiver you have there anyway - I remember that thread you posted on those. I was looking for a quad myself for a bit, but soon realized I probably wouldn't be able to find one that would drive my intended speakers (the Energys).

greg

[downinflames68]

Yeah, unless I'm watching a movie I switch it to stereo, which doubles up the amps per channel for like 80 watts per channel, or around thereabouts. In quad it's only like 40 watts per channel, which is still good, they just sound better with more juice.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yeah, that's what I heard. These Energy speakers are pretty inefficient and it's noticable even on my Yammy - I've got to turn it up significantly compared to any of my other speakers. I was told that at anything less than 80wpc solid-state I'd be pushing my luck.

Other than that, I worked my way through a few Beatles albums last night. Haven't really done that in a couple years I'd guess. "Golden Slumbers" confirms for me every time that Paul must've been the greatest vocalist in rock history...

greg

[BadKosh]

The amazing CR-2020! My room mate had one in the early 1980's. He worked at a local Audio repair shop and said that the ONLY thing you could possibly do is re-align the FM. He said it was the perfect receiver. Shipping was a little rough and the re-align made the FM separation better and reduced the hiss. I was more of a fan of my Marantz 2270, but I sold it about 20 years ago now. Wish I hadn't.

[downinflames68]

@ Bad, eh, pretty sure the CR-3020 was better. It cost more, and had over 130wpc, and was the biggest, baddest, most powerful thing Yamaha made for a long time.

The power wars of the late 70s were fun. Then Technics came along and bitchslapped everyone with the SA-1000. If I ever build a stereo listening system, I want one of these guys, badly:

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yeah, but the problem with those receivers is that because they sold so few in the first place, the value on those that remain is artificially high because they're even more of a collector's item.

For example the only SA-1000 I've ever seen for sale in Canada was a couple years back when I was looking for a Sony receiver. They were asking $2700 I think. Sorry, but if I was spending that kind of money I'd be taking advantage of some not-as-cool-but-newer-and-better models!

I tried looking for the 3020 but again, the only one I found was in the States and they were asking $1500 or something. Meh. Cool, but not that cool!

greg

[downinflames68]

Yeah, but if you can find a deal on one..... it is the ultimate. Money no object, I'd have one already, just cuz. New stuff is lame.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yeah, I think the internet has really cut down on the deals you get nowadays. I mean, if you run into some older person who doesn't care or is just computer illiterate then maybe, but for the most part all people have to do nowadays is Google the name and find out that it's worth a lot.

The worst with those is that they're pretty much too heavy to ship, too (plus the whole damage issue). So it narrows it down to your own area. I doubt there were more than a few hundred those monster receivers sold in the entire US. I'm pretty sure there were none sold within a couple thousand miles drive of me.

You need to be somewhere like Detroit, where they formerly had money and could spend it and now they'll sell you their old electronics to pay for bread...haha

[BadKosh]

I'm more of a component guy. I have DB Systems Preamps(2), Crown IC-150a Preamps(2), Crown D-150a-IOC, Crown PSA-2(modified with better front end), DB Systems power amps (2) and a Yamaha tuner, and an old Dynaco AF-6. I have 3 turntables, too many phono carts, and an Aiwa 3 head cassette deck. I have 3 sets of KEF 104aB's 2 pair of JBL 4311's, and a pair of KOSS Pro4AA headphones. Got rid of my 2270, and Dynaco Pat 4 & Stereo 120, and SAE 30 and Marantz 24 Preamp Tuner.

[BadKosh]

Just found this on ebay. very sad.

Yamaha CR-2020 Natural Sound Receiver Project - eBay (item 300447087558 end time Jul-23-10 16:04:46 PDT)

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yeah - if you can find one with a good faceplate, someone who knows what they're doing or doesn't mind tinkering could have one looking top-notch in no time!

Here's some pics of my speakers (excuse the white dots... no idea what they are but I've never seen them before. Maybe the camera's dying?! Or maybe dead people are trying to communicate with me...?)

[downinflames68]

Those look nice.

[Laminar]

Dandruff?