[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

You're too stoned to realize that I've already lapped you twice, hoser.

Out of curiosity, can subego's friend drive a manual, or does she prefer it?

Keep up, dude.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

I guess you missed where he said she enjoys driving.

I did miss that, because that never happened. Keep chugging along buddy, you'll catch up eventually.

[sek929]

Shaddim has zero perspective on the costs of maintaining a car because he's worth like eleventy billion dollars. It doesn't matter if the car was crafted by the finest German engineers, if it's old it will need a host of regular maintenance and it will cost you a shitload more money than a variety of other brands.

I'll have to go back to, like, the first post or something where Shortcut said make a list of cars and test drive them all / be patient. The worst thing you can do is get impatient and just buy "something." The second worst thing you can do is start a thread of about cars in the lounge.

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I didn't recommend buying a 1992 Honda or giving a '95 Audi a $5000 paintjob.

Oh, I know.

[The Final Dakar]

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Out of curiosity, can subego's friend drive a manual, or does she prefer it?

Keep up, dude.

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I did miss that, because that never happened. Keep chugging along buddy, you'll catch up eventually.

You're so horribly lost, just smoke another bowl and forget the race entirely, bubba.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

It's The Laminar Effect™, a little while ago he smoked his own nose hair and then dropped his pipe between the couch cushions.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Not disappointed

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Shaddim has zero perspective on the costs of maintaining a car because he's worth like eleventy billion dollars. It doesn't matter if the car was crafted by the finest German engineers, if it's old it will need a host of regular maintenance and it will cost you a shitload more money than a variety of other brands.

This. But, ESPECIALLY if the car was crafted by the finest German engineers.

I think the key part of Shaddim's post was that one of his shop guys bought an '02 M3. That says it all: it's a car either for people who do their own work, or people who can afford to pay other people to do work for them. (My general rule is that if you can't afford to buy a luxury car new, then you almost certainly can't afford the maintenance & service on a used one, either, unless you do your own work - and even then you'll grumble like hell at the cost of parts.). Subego's girl appears to be neither of those things and in my humble opinion it would be absolutely ludicrous to steer her in this direction. "As long as it's properly serviced" - you think someone who can only afford a $12k vehicle max is going to pay for proper and regular servicing of an M3? This is patently absurd - assuming hard-wearing Chicago winters and all that, it will quickly turn into a similar kind of money pit as Sub's recent come-to-Jesus moment with his X5.

Secondly, the Mazda3 and Civic options mentioned are almost certainly the best ideas, along with the Corolla or even the Impreza. If this is her only car she should be concerned about reliability, safety and just enough fun to put a smile on her face - these are all perfectly serviceable and even enjoyable cars and for that price you might even find newer models with extended warranty.

Thirdly, where is that $8500 M3 located, again? I love that ****ing car.

I'll have to go back to, like, the first post or something where Shortcut said make a list of cars and test drive them all / be patient. The worst thing you can do is get impatient and just buy "something." The second worst thing you can do is start a thread of about cars in the lounge.

I don't care what everyone around here says about you - I think you're just the best, sek.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Oh, the other troll! Goody! I was wondering when you'd pop in. The one for $8500 was from a local Craigslist ad, you'll need to search your own area. However, I believe you're Canuckistani, so it'll be a lot more (at least another $20,000, or something like that).

Also, I never recommended she get an M3 (it was a 325i), try actually reading the posts. (I know, I know.) With proper service and care it'll last alot longer than a Mazda3.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

After your ****ing halfwit performance in this thread, it's so refreshingly breathtaking when you have the cahones to call out other people's entirely reasonable suggestions as trolling.

If she has $12,000 max to spend she cannot afford to buy, service and maintain a BMW, period. The stupid shit you throw around is amazing: everything bad in this world is the fault of the irresponsible individuals who Want It All and have No Accountability, and yet someone manages to come up with 12 grand and you go straight to the completely impractical rich man's BMW that they can't afford. Goddamn, you're a fake ****ing idiot.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Bleh

*yawn* Talk about stupid shit? You're pathetic. A pre-owned 325i is a "rich man's BMW"? Where do you live, a trailer park in Vancouver? If you had any intelligence you'd realize that the 325i I recommended had reached the sweet spot in its depreciation curve, meaning when/if she goes to sell, or trade it in, she'd get a great deal more out of it than any of the econoboxes you and your ilk are recommending.

[BadKosh]

BMW PARTS are very expensive. Unless you go to a NON-BMW garage to get it fixed, you'll never be able to afford it. No matter which BMW (stands for Break My Windows).
VW's are cheaper to maintain, but you have to be careful on WHICH variant you get. The later VW's seem more delicate and fragile than the older ones, speaking from experience. They do not like driving on rough, pot holed roads.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

With proper service and care it'll last alot longer than a Mazda3.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Lit up early again, I see.

[subego]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

They do not like driving on rough, pot holed roads.

[Laminar]

Here's a fun one I just stumbled on.

'03 540i 6-speed - timing chain guide abrupt failure, now what?

Original owner, production 9/02, 155,000 miles, immaculate maintenance - old school.
Have had excellent relationship with dealer for 13+ years now, including $2-4,000 per year since going off warranty in 11/08.
Have had all the usual issues in this time, and then some.

I started the engine, heard a clatter noise from the engine, got an SES light but no message, and immediately shut it down and towed to dealer.

Today, dealer quotes $6500 [parts and tax 2500, labor 4000] for "replacing timing chain guides and all related required components".
Turner Motorsport quotes $4500, possibly more depending on what they find during job.

$2-4k/year at the dealership to maintain/repair it, then catastrophic failure of the timing chain guides, which is purely a design flaw and has nothing to do with maintenance or abuse. Want to fix it yourself? $700 in parts and 30 hours of labor.

But you guys! German engineering! All you have to do is maintain it and it will last forever! Longer than any crappy Japanese cars. WTH do those guys know about designing for longevity??

[sek929]

She should get a used Lambo, with proper love and tenderness it will last longer than a tugboat.

[subego]

Here in my garaaaaaaaage...

[Laminar]

Note that what I shared was an anecdote. On its own, useless in demonstrating a pattern of reliability across thousands of examples of a single model. But very useful for refuting stupid statements like, "With proper service and care it'll last alot longer than a Mazda3."

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

*yawn* Talk about stupid shit? You're pathetic. A pre-owned 325i is a "rich man's BMW"? Where do you live, a trailer park in Vancouver? If you had any intelligence you'd realize that the 325i I recommended had reached the sweet spot in its depreciation curve, meaning when/if she goes to sell, or trade it in, she'd get a great deal more out of it than any of the econoboxes you and your ilk are recommending.

It's a rich man's car. You can certainly own one and not be rich - but not if you can only afford $12 grand in the first place, or don't have the ability to maintain it yourself at the not-so-cheap cost of BMW parts. What I'm advocating for here is some common sense and financial sense based on the evidence. Can we at least agree that perhaps you aren't in the best position to evaluate the real world here?

Of course, apologies to sub's friend if she is able to do her own work, or if she has no worries in paying BMW-level maintenance and labor costs on top of a $12k car; I'm just going on available evidence.

Finally, yeah, I have a couple perfectly fine and reasonable Japanese cars. They cost a lot more than $12 grand each, but I have enough sense to know that my comfortable middle-class salary Isn't enough to spring for a luxury brand at this point.

[is not]

Buy a horse. I do believe in the horse.
The automobile is no more than a transitory phenomenon.

[andi*pandi]

Sure, you can get a horse for less than $1000, but the upkeep costs are triple that per year.

[is not]

OK then. If you are interested in many rich man's car come this week to Geneva. The Geneva motor show is traditionally in Geneva and this year was no exception. Plenty of rich man's cars there!

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Here's a fun one I just stumbled on.

'03 540i 6-speed - timing chain guide abrupt failure, now what?

$2-4k/year at the dealership to maintain/repair it, then catastrophic failure of the timing chain guides, which is purely a design flaw and has nothing to do with maintenance or abuse. Want to fix it yourself? $700 in parts and 30 hours of labor.

But you guys! German engineering! All you have to do is maintain it and it will last forever! Longer than any crappy Japanese cars. WTH do those guys know about designing for longevity??

Do you know the difference between the 5-series and the 3? (Other than the numbers being different, in your perpetually drug-addled state even that may not be obvious to you.) Do you know why that wouldn't apply to a 325i?

Originally Posted by sek929 

She should get a used Lambo, with proper love and tenderness it will last longer than a tugboat.

That's actually true. Congrats!

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

It's a rich man's car.

No, it's not. It's a middle-class coupe, you're thinking of the 5-7 series.

Of course, apologies to sub's friend if she is able to do her own work, or if she has no worries in paying BMW-level maintenance and labor costs on top of a $12k car; I'm just going on available evidence.

Free tip: The GTI she was considering would cost as much to maintain and repair, because those repair shops work almost universally on both marques.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Sure, you can get a horse for less than $1000, but the upkeep costs are triple that per year.

But they bite. On the plus side, you can eat them if necessary.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Do you know the difference between the 5-series and the 3? Do you know why that wouldn't apply to a 325i?

Do you? I already listed the common problems that plague even low-mileage E46s (that wouldn't matter on just about any Japanese car under 200k miles) earlier in this thread. I'm sure you missed it in your fruitless effort to keep up with us.

The 540 story was just something I stumbled on that I found interesting and helps dispel the "all you have to do is maintain it well" myth.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Free tip: The GTI she was considering would cost as much to maintain and repair, because those repair shops work almost universally on both marques.

Good thing no one was recommending a GTI.

[subego]

She's appreciative and thankful for the advice, but is having trouble understanding the culture of MacNN car threads.

I couldn't get her to commit on the $64,000 question. She may prefer stick.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Do you? I already listed the common problems that plague even low-mileage E46s

and then you bring up a 5-series, with a V8...

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Good thing no one was recommending a GTI.

Nope, she was considering it all on her own.

That stuff must be amazing.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

No, it's not. It's a middle-class coupe, you're thinking of the 5-7 series.

It's a car with high cost-of-ownership that starts around the mid-$30s new. Maybe rich is stretching it a little; but "well-off" at minimum - hell, we have two good incomes and we certainly could not afford a 3 series.

And to someone who has a $12k max budget and would presumably pay a garage for every repair? Come on. Be realistic.

[Laminar]

You can lease a 320i in the US for like $300/month. Payments on my Focus were higher than that, but of course at the end of the term I actually owned something.

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

TrueDelta.com for reliability info.

Beat me to it. That was my first thought when I read the OP.

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Ignore anecdotes. "I've had good luck with...", "I really love my...", "I had a terrible time with..." statements are worthless.

[angelmb]

As someone battling cancer, please don't buy a Volkswagen. They have polluted our World more than they were ever entitled to.

[BadKosh]

They were not the first or only car company to do that.

[Laminar]

BadKosh: Why do you hate VW?

[Laminar]

Speaking of dumb cars to buy, I need someone to talk me out of this:

Fixer upper audi wagon

Perfect platform for a RallyCross race car. There was one at the event a couple weeks ago.


RallyCross 14-Feb by Laminar, on Flickr

It was a lot of fun, by the way.


RallyCross 14-Feb by Laminar, on Flickr


RallyCross 14-Feb by Laminar, on Flickr

[Doc HM]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Speaking of dumb cars to buy, I need someone to talk me out of this:

Fixer upper audi wagon

Perfect platform for a RallyCross race car. There was one at the event a couple weeks ago.

Fun stuff!

Of Audi wagons... I always had an urge for one of these. The later RS4's etc, not so bothered, but this for some reason I really really wanted...

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Speaking of dumb cars to buy, I need someone to talk me out of this:

Fixer upper audi wagon

You should talk to Cash/Rob

-t

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by Doc HM 

Needs a "The Stig" plaque in the rear right window.

[Laminar]

No one has talked me out of it. Wife is out of town for the next four days. Someone please talk me out of it.

[andi*pandi]

Isn't your garage full? Does your nosy neighborhood watch prevent cars being worked on in the driveway? Are all the other cars/bikes/machines/home theaters paid off? Are there other projects you have started and should finish before starting a new one? Yes, even the boring ones?

And is your wife out of town on a desert island without a cell phone?

/devils advocate mode

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Isn't your garage full?

Yes. Motorcycles are currently in closets inside the house for the winter.

Does your nosy neighborhood watch prevent cars being worked on in the driveway?

No neighborhood watch, no HOA. Neighbor across the street has five cars for four drivers and often street parks.

Are all the other cars/bikes/machines/home theaters paid off?

Yep. I changed jobs this year to stop traveling, and the prerequisite to taking that massive pay cut was being debt free (minus the mortgage, which will still be paid off before I'm 40).

Are there other projects you have started and should finish before starting a new one? Yes, even the boring ones?

I never did cosmetically finish off that arcade machine or the racing sim seat, though both work.

And is your wife out of town on a desert island without a cell phone?

San Diego.

Actually I yanked the transmission out of the M3 today and found a totally roasted clutch, it ruined the flywheel and pressure plate too. Only 2000 miles on it and it was supposed to be rated for 370hp.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

There goes the extra car cash.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

It isn't the HP that kills those, it's the torque. Oh, and cheap Chinese clutches suck.

[Laminar]

Rated at 390ft-lb, best case I'm putting down 300. And totally garbage from day 1. Already have a Centerforce dual friction pressure plate and friction on order. Just need to figure out if I can find a replacement insert, if I can resurface this one, or if I'm out $300 for a real one this time.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

BadKosh: Why do you hate VW?

i DON'T hate VW. Thats ALL I've driven since 1982. Most fun was my 1983 GTI.

[Laminar]

BadKosh: Then why do you keep talking shit about BMW if you hate VW?

[BadKosh]

My buddy has BMW's and spends about $5-8K a year to keep them up. I HATE their seats too. Back in 2004 I almost bought a 545. I'd buy a Porsche first.

[Laminar]

Then why do VWs keep breaking down all the time?

[BadKosh]

Find a brand that DOESN'T break down.