[CaseCom]

The United States will be changed forever by this horrible attack. Air travel security will be tightened (probably overdue)... public access to buildings in Washington probably further restricted. This was the kind of thing that has always happened somewhere else ... "Thank God we live in a free country," right? Free from the horrors that we see on the television in the Middle East, Northern Ireland, elsewhere. Even Oklahoma City was seen as an aberration. Not anymore. We leave ourselves vulnerable so we can enjoy our freedoms, our conveniences. Starting tomorrow, we will be a little less vulnerable, and a little less free -- especially in our own minds.

For those of you not in the U.S., think of it this way: this is almost certainly the largest loss of life on U.S. soil since the Civil War of 1861-65.

300 firefighters are feared dead in the collapse of the towers, including the city fire chief (there was a command post right under the towers, apparently). More than 70 police officers are said to be unaccounted for. I heard a man talk of how he made it down the crowded stairwell and out of the building, and I prayed he was in the majority. Still, the number of dead will probably be in the thousands.

It was not the force of the crash that destroyed the building's supports and caused the collapse. (The towers were supported by their exterior skeletons, like a hollow tube.) It was the heat from the burning jet fuel that softened the steel supports, causing them to buckle. The floors above the fire fell into the ones below, triggering a "pancaking" chain reaction. Clearly the terrorists knew what they were doing. They chose coast-to-coast flights because the jets would be fully loaded with fuel.

I write with a heavy heart... but the United States didn't get where it is by being made of sugar candy (as someone once said -- I heard it somewhere today). I am certain that we will persevere, as we always have.

Tonight I heard Tony Blair say something like "This is not just the United States' fight against terrorism ... this is the free world's fight against terrorism." I hope others feel that way too.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: CaseCom ]

[Nonsuch]

I have nothing to add, really, but this community is important to me and I need a little of that MacNN good stuff right now.

I spent the whole day at my computer, dilligently surfing the net for every scrap of info I could get. When I got home, I turned on BBC World, then CNN, then half a dozen other channels. And it still hasn't entirely sunk in. All that devestation and loss, achieved in what might as well have been an instant.

I can handle the destruction of the WTC and the Pentagon. But when I try to imagine the people trapped in those towers, driven so mad with fear they were willing to jump to their own deaths, I feel like my brain is going to seize up. I don't know if I will ever be able to forget this day; a little bit of it is going to live inside me, inside all of us.

I'm not sure I'll be able to sleep tonight. Maybe a Tylenol PM will help; something has to ...

Oh, and as for that World Runner guy: you go right on posting that sh�t, fella. Then tomorrow when you pick up your paper or turn on your tv and hear someone asking, "What kind of person did this?," well, just take a look at the reflection in your orange juice. It's the people who believe the sins of the government should be visited on the people, and that a monstrous tragedy like this is nothing more than paybacks writ large. In short, you.

Keep posting. I want fu�king lunatics like you where I can see you.

[Gaijin]

This is an attack on humanity, not just the US. These acts are evil in every sense of the world.

[l'ignorante]

Originally posted by nana2:
<STRONG>

I'm afraid most of Europe lost any sense of freedom many years ago, living in their socialist nanny states as they do.</STRONG>

Oh my God...why do I even bother posting anything here.

[CaseCom]

Guess what? The FAA allows knives on flights!



[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: CaseCom ]

[nana2]

They should never have taken the armed air marshalls out of US planes.

[Demonhood]

Please keep the hate to a minimum. Emotions are running high, but that's no excuse for racism or knee-jerk venom spitting.

We're all trying to cope with this. We don't need the added aggrivation of intolerance.

[Kickaha]

Hear, hear.

Leave that for when the perps are identified *conclusively*.

At that point, let it rip... at the perps.

Not people who look like them.

Not people who pray to the same god.

Not people who talk like them.

Just them.

But for them... no mercy, no quarter, no sanctuary.

Ever.

[The Emperor's Bad Teeth]

Sudden death is too good for the people responsible for this, they need to suffer like everyone suffered today. Why not trap the terrorists in a burning building with no way out? Then they can see what they did.

Also, I'll bet the Pentagon will soon have permanent anti-aircraft batteries and such soon (along with the rest of Washington, probably). Security will be raised considerably in Washington, armed air marshalls will be on all flights, systems will be installed on aircraft that will either allow remote operation of the aircraft to allow people on the ground to fly it safely to an airport or something similar. Whoever is responsible, whether it be Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, or whoever, will be killed and the government of their country will be overthrown. This could trigger World War 3, though that's less likely that other things.

A few questions:

I've heard about four other hijackings from several places. Someone said they were in Colorado and somewhere else. Is this true?

Can anyone confirm the reports of people in the basement calling on cellphones?

What happened with the truckload of bombs near the bridge? Have they gotten any information from the people they arrested?

[nana2]

There were 2 or 3 people arrested but the Police commisioner said that no explosives were found.

[FormerLurker]

The investigation is proceeding quite rapidly, and evidence is beginning to pile up.

Read this article, from the Boston Herald:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/loc...tk09122001.htm

Authorities in Massachusetts identified at least five Arab men as suspects in yesterday's terror attacks launched from Logan International Airport, seizing in the central parking garage a car laden with Arabic-language flight training manuals, sources said last night.Two of the men, whose passports were traced to the United Arab Emirates, were brothers, one of whom was a trained pilot, a source told the Herald, speaking on condition of anonymity. At least two other suspects flew to Logan yesterday from Portland, Maine, where authorities believe they had traveled after crossing over from Canada recently.

Once in the air, the hijackers in one plane began killing flight attendants in order to lure a pilot from the cockpit and seize the plane, said one source. ``They started killing stewardesses in the back of the plane as a diversion. The pilot came back to help and that is how they got into the cockpit,'' said the source.

Authorities were led to the rental car by a civilian who got into an altercation with several Arab men as they were parking their car, identified by sources as a Mitsubishi sedan.

The man, whose name was not available last night, called state police from an out-of-state airport after his own flight landed yesterday and he learned planes hijacked from Logan had been involved in attacks that toppled the World Trade Center's twin towers, crippled the Pentagon and downed another airliner in Pennsylvania.

The car, rented from National Rental Car, was secured yesterday by the FBI and authorities have prepared a search warrant. It was unclear when the warrant would be served.

Just moments before the first crash, air traffic controllers heard the lone voice of the terror plot speaking from the cockpit of one doomed aircraft.

``We have more planes, we have other planes,'' a voice alleged to be that of a hijacker could be heard saying through a microphone activated by a pilot of American Airlines Flight 11, the Christian Science Monitor reported on its Web site.`One of the pilots keyed their mike so the conversation between the pilot and the person in the cockpit could be heard,'' an unamed controller told the paper. ``The person in the cockpit was speaking English. He was saying something like, `Don't do anything foolish. You're not going to get hurt.' ''


A flight attendant aboard Flight 11 called superiors to report two flight attendants had been stabbed and hijackers had broken into the cockpit, ABC News reported.

The attendant also relayed the seat number of one hijacker before the plane struck the Trade Center




[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: FormerLurker ]

[CaseCom]

Originally posted by The Emperor's Bad Teeth:
<STRONG>I've heard about four other hijackings from several places. Someone said they were in Colorado and somewhere else. Is this true?

Can anyone confirm the reports of people in the basement calling on cellphones?</STRONG>

From AP:

One man caught under the rubble used his cell phone to reach family in Pennsylvania with a plea for help.

``She received a call from him saying he was still trapped under theWorld Trade Center. He gave specific directions and said he was therealong with two New York City sergeants,'' said Brian Jones, 911coordinator in Allegheny County. He would not give their names, but saidthe message was passed to New York authorities.

Haven't seen anything about any hijackings other than the four.

[ThinkInsane]

"WAKE UP, AMERICA!"
A poem by Peter S. Griffin

Symbolic attacks should warn us, you know,
Reality sets in, where fear begins....
America's enemies will strike anywhere,
They will do anything to instill that fear....

To put you on edge, to walk on the ledge,
To see yourself fall, innocence mauled....
Shock effect will take it's toll,
Destroying us is their goal....
.
"WAKE UP, AMERICA!", before its too late,
Don't let terrorists seal our fate....
Our indecisions and lack of resolve,
Feeds their ambitions, they have no prohibitions....
.
To kill many birds, with one stone,
To turn our congregations into war zones....
The destruction of our institutions,
Strengthen their resolutions....
.
To instill terror, whatever the cost,
Their desired effect, no matter our loss....
The more damage done, the more they have won,
To kill our children, is to destroy our future....
.
In their minds, terror has no errors,
A desired effect, the can select....
The holiest place is no disgrace,
The safest place, the greater the waste....
.
Multiple targets, in one location,
Penetration will rattle our nation....
No place safe, no matter our race,
To destroy us all, is their call....
.
Psychological damage is their tool,
Cunning demons, they are not fools....
To weaken us within, to our chagrin,
Their victory begins, when morale caves in....
.
They know our weakness,
They know our plight....
Class distinction, racial strife, discrimination,
All will lead to our elimination...!
.
Let us learn from our mistakes,
Obsession with pleasure, is a disgrace....
"One nation under God", is the call,
If we live by this, we will not fall....
.
Teach our children, right from wrong,
Preserve tranquillity, support our military....
Following God is where we belong,
With Him in our side, we can't go wrong....
.
Support our leaders, pray to God,
This is not a faraway war, its on our sod....
Join together, so we are great,
"WAKE UP, AMERICA!", before its too late!
.
September 11, 2001 - Another day of infamy...

[FormerLurker]

Well, folks, it seems that there is at least one victim with a direct link to our community...



Daniel Lewin, co-founder and chief technology officer at Akamai Technologies Inc., is said by his company to have died Tuesday aboard American Airlines Flight 11. He was 31.

from cnn.com

[TNproud2b]

If that didn't qualify as disruptive, I don't see anything ever qualifying.

[The Emperor's Bad Teeth]

This image will stay in my mind forever:


[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: The Emperor's Bad Teeth ]

[Blue Shift]

As this horrible day comes to an end, i've yet to have the whole completeness of this tragedy sink in, but please print this page size picture out and post it at schools and such. picture

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by tooki:
<STRONG>Sorry, I cannot disagree more. Admins, DO NOT delete or ban anyone for their views. You know very well that it is our policy to ban for being rude and disruptive, not for having opposing views.

tooki</STRONG>

Man, you are the biggest hypocrite I've ever had the displeasure of communicating with...

[Scott_H]

Originally posted by Blue Shift:
<STRONG>As this horrible day comes to an end, i've yet to have the whole completeness of this tragedy sink in, but please print this page size picture out and post it at schools and such. picture</STRONG>

Uhhhh? Are we trying to help kids or scare them even more

[tooki]

Originally posted by elzinat:
<STRONG>

ever hear that there are some things you just don't fu�k with?
to paraphrase scott, "i'm not in any fu�king mood to deal with stupid arrogant callous assholes like you."
deleted, banned, and moreover, you can just go fu�k yourself</STRONG>

Sorry, I cannot disagree more.

I want to express to the members that I am appalled at this action, and that this is not representative of all the administrative team's views.

I will personally be looking into this matter, as I absolutely will not tolerate censorship of opinions (only of delinquent behavior).

tooki

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Blue Shift:
<STRONG>As this horrible day comes to an end, i've yet to have the whole completeness of this tragedy sink in, but please print this page size picture out and post it at schools and such. picture</STRONG>

That's the sickest thing I've ever seen...

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by tooki:
<STRONG>

Sorry, I cannot disagree more.

I want to express to the members that I am appalled at this action, and that this is not representative of all the administrative team's views.

I will personally be looking into this matter, as I absolutely will not tolerate censorship of opinions (only of delinquent behavior).

tooki</STRONG>

THANK YOU!!!!!

I have been following this thread all day, and by page 5 this even I am outright disgusted by the action and attitude of my fellow MacNNers.

The actions of Scott_H, by trying to silence the option of another member of our society is *almost* as bad as the crime that was committed against the citizens of NY and the civilians who were in the WTC and Pentagon and on all of the airplanes.

Too many of us are running on emotion and not thinking clearly. Too many are shouting for the death and destruction of those who perpetrated this horrific attack. But to attack and condemn the Islamic people, based on a stereotype and a potentially inaccurate assumption is just wrong.

To attack without just cause and evidence we would be no better then those who perpetrated this attack. It truly is a tragedy but no amount of senseless killing will change that.

Juanvaldes & Cheerios

I hope that there will be swift justice in this case and those responsible will face the full brunt of the law.

[nana2]

Originally posted by Blue Shift:
<STRONG>As this horrible day comes to an end, i've yet to have the whole completeness of this tragedy sink in, but please print this page size picture out and post it at schools and such. picture</STRONG>

Umm how is posting that in schools going to help? You will prob be bashed (and deservedly so)

[Miami]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
****ing France wouldn't let us fly over their piece of crap dung heap of a country.

that's how everything starts, isn't it?

[Thomas76]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>

Please tell your leaders that. I don't have a lot of faith in them. Remember when the US wanted to teach Lybia a lesson? ****ing France wouldn't let us fly over their piece of crap dung heap of a country.

So if you're "united" with US then you need to move you war planes and arm your troops because anything less is rhetoric.</STRONG>

Hey keep cool:
1/France doesn't belong to NATO
2/it isn't as simple as you think, there are a lot of strangers in France and they check every french decision.
In 1990 during the gulfWar, France was engaged into this war, and believe me, a lot of strangers burned our cars, french flags and so on here!
So try to think off 30" before to tell about "****ing piece of crap".

Lybia, Irak, Iran.... are far from the USA, maybe easy to say "burn all of them crappy countries..", but in Europe this is actually near, we have hand s less free than yours.

[nana2]

Originally posted by Thomas76:
<STRONG>

Hey keep cool:
1/France doesn't belong to NATO</STRONG>

Umm I think they are members of NATO: http://www.nato.int/structur/countries.htm

[Thomas76]

Originally posted by nana2:
<STRONG>


Umm I think they are members of NATO: http://www.nato.int/structur/countries.htm</STRONG>

yes Fr is a member of NATO
sorry,
I mean France isn't military engaged in NATO like Germany or UK, France hasn't delegation neither.
It's very well explained on the diagram the link you've posted

[sek929]

Originally posted by bewebste:
<STRONG>

Hmm, I thought America was supposed to have this thing called "free speech". Seems that MacNN forums are going under martial law now. You may not agree with what he had to say, but you shouldn't ban him from this discussion because of it. Or are you afraid that he might have a point?

I saw this quote posted on macgamer.com. Mr. King was a wise man...

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Martin Luther King, Jr.</STRONG>

So lets hug the terrorists shall we? Schmuck.

Oh and this is not a governmental board, its a privatly owned and operated one, so whatever the admin says goes. There no such thing as the bill of rights here so stop whining.

[mikithecrackhead]

Guess what? The FAA allows knives on flights!

The flight attendants GIVE knives away, with every meal!!!

It seems like my main source of news (and NPR)reuters lost some stuff ( possibly staff/people)reuters

[nana2]

Originally posted by mikithecrackhead:
<STRONG>Guess what? The FAA allows knives on flights!

The flight attendants GIVE knives away, with every meal!!!

It seems like my main source of news (and NPR)reuters lost some stuff ( possibly staff/people)reuters</STRONG>

It's difficult to slit someone's throat with a plane meal knife. In fact the handle end of the fork is probably more dangerous.

[Kickaha]

While true, I've often flown with a Swiss Army knife in my carry on.

With a 4" blade.

I've never been questioned about it.

A 4" blade may seem small, but think about it... 4" into your chest. Your abdomen. Your throat.

A 4" blade is plenty capable of being used to create fear of death, and therefore a hijacking.

I'm perfectly happy not carrying it from now on flights if it means that we're all a bit safer.

[Bockie]

CNN is now reporting there are three planes over Canada with no contact! I hope this isn't happening all over again!!!

[Millennium]

About the whole knife thing...

The perpetrators had knives and box-cutters. Those knives must have looked pretty nasty, because taking out a knife-armed opponent isn't that tough under normal circumstances (not easy, and certainly not without risk, but very doable, especially if you can get a lot of people helping you). Certainly the knives could not have been street-legal; box cutters are another matter.

My guess is that they were using ceramic knives. They do exist (hell, you can even get ceramic guns if you know where to look), and they're advertised as being able to get past metal detetectors, since they're not made of metal. So if you stick one in your boot, you're safe, because you can always refuse to be frisked and instead make them search you with that little metal-detector-wand-thing, which won't do any better at picking them up.

And armed officials won't do any good. Shooting a gun on an airplane is utter lunacy, and terrorists know this. They don't care, of course, since they'll die anyway, but the marshals will care, and everyone knows that they'll care. That will make them hesitate to use the gun, and that's all a terrorist needs.

Simply put, there's nothing we can do. If you go in and kill innocents along with the terrorists, you have become the terrorists. Assassination is out, which is unfortunate because then innocents could be left out of the inevitable (and, sadly, necessary) retaliation. Giving up basic rights in order to gain "increased security" secures nothing but the terrorists' victory; they want nothing more than for the US to become even more oppressive, just like them. In short, the only winning move is not to play.

[mikithecrackhead]

If you can kill thosands with a box cutter, you can do the same with a butter knive., and probrally with a wiffle ball bat too. LOL this really isn't funny, but look at how much damage these terrorists did with box cutters!
God/allah/sacred cow/sun god/satan, bless us all

[dogzilla]

Originally posted by Bockie:
<STRONG>CNN is now reporting there are three planes over Canada with no contact! I hope this isn't happening all over again!!! </STRONG>

From CNN:

"Canadian aviation authorities said that three unidentified plans spotted flying over western Canada were carrying out humanitarian missions."

[Bockie]

Originally posted by dogzilla:
<STRONG>

From CNN:

"Canadian aviation authorities said that three unidentified plans spotted flying over western Canada were carrying out humanitarian missions."</STRONG>

Thank God! Thank you for the clarification!

[The Emperor's Bad Teeth]

I think what happened yesterday WAS Satan's blessing, mikithecrackhead.

[parallax]

What elzinat and Scott did was not condoned in any way by the team at MacNN, and it will not happen again.

World runner was dead wrong about his justification.
Nevertheless, he shouldn't be banned for it, just trampled upon by members.

[mike one]

Originally posted by bewebste:
<STRONG>

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Martin Luther King, Jr.</STRONG>

the white hot light of a muzzle flashes will drive out this darkness, hatred demolished with bullets blessed with the love of freedom.

re: palestine celebrations.

these people in palestine, cheering this are idiots, reactionary, unintelligent morons. the US has done so much to broker peace in that region, and there is strong pro-palestine support in this country, i hope they lost all that yesturday.

I think it is time for Israel to do what it should've long ago, stop giving up land, stop compromising with people who don't pony up to their half of the deal. and to do away with this human waste. there are families of people in palestine, rasing children in the hopes that they will be suicide bombers, so called matyrs. there is only one way to deal with these people. never give in to their demands. when you're dealing with savages, anywhere in the world you don't play by gentleman's rules. (if you do, you will lose. that is why so many innocent people in coffee shops, schools, buses have died there.)

that is what we now have to do with the people responsible for these actions. their supporters, families, and housing countries (if neccessary) need to be met with full scale retribution.

US sponsered assassinations. the time to reinstate this policy is now.

again most importantly, everyone take a moment now and then to think-or pray- for the families of the victims, and for our nation.

God bless this great nation in this time of tragedy.

[Mskr]

Originally posted by mike one:
<STRONG>

the white hot light of a muzzle flashes will drive out this darkness, hatred demolished with bullets blessed with the love of freedom.

re: palestine celebrations.

these people in palestine, cheering this are idiots, reactionary, unintelligent morons. the US has done so much to broker peace in that region, and there is strong pro-palestine support in this country, i hope they lost all that yesturday.

I think it is time for Israel to do what it should've long ago, stop giving up land, stop compromising with people who don't pony up to their half of the deal. and to do away with this human waste. there are families of people in palestine, rasing children in the hopes that they will be suicide bombers, so called matyrs. there is only one way to deal with these people. never give in to their demands. when you're dealing with savages, anywhere in the world you don't play by gentleman's rules. (if you do, you will lose. that is why so many innocent people in coffee shops, schools, buses have died there.)
</STRONG>

So, the Palestinians who were cheering in the streets are "reactionary, unintelligent morons", but you somehow feel qualified to make the above comments? Ok...

<STRONG>that is what we now have to do with the people responsible for these actions. their supporters, families, and housing countries (if neccessary) need to be met with full scale retribution.

US sponsered assassinations. the time to reinstate this policy is now.
</STRONG>

Maybe those actions are warrented. Let's wait to find out WHO to direct the "revenge attacks" at before we do so, eh?

<STRONG>
again most importantly, everyone take a moment now and then to think-or pray- for the families of the victims, and for our nation.

God bless this great nation in this time of tragedy.</STRONG>

This is obvious, and hardly needs to be said again.

What you're completely ignoring is the fact that some Palestinians (NOT ALL) have been trained by their leaders and the actions of anti-Palestinian groups/governments (Israel, USA, etc.) that they should blindly hate a group of people they've never seen, met or talked to. This is akin to you hating or wanting to exterminate a group of people you've never seen, met or talked to. YOU ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE IF YOU SAY THEY SHOULD BE WIPED OUT!

When will people understand that you cannot kill people in order to change the way that other people think or behave? The terrorists who committed yesterday's attacks probably (impossible to know WHY they did this, since they didn't release any sort of statement to the world that we know of) did this to further some sort of cause. People who are calling for immediate counter-attacks are using knee-jerk, emotional reactions to call for violence and death; are they any different from terrorists who want revenge/reprisal for past wrongs?

Nobody in the public knows why the attacks happened yesterday, nor who perpetrated them. PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH TO SPEW HATRED AND FEAR!

[mike one]

Originally posted by Mskr:
<STRONG>
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that some Palestinians (NOT ALL) have been trained by their leaders and the actions of anti-Palestinian groups/governments (Israel, USA, etc.) that they should blindly hate a group of people they've never seen, met or talked to. This is akin to you hating or wanting to exterminate a group of people you've never seen, met or talked to. YOU ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE IF YOU SAY THEY SHOULD BE WIPED OUT!
</STRONG>

no i'm not, maybe you should read more carefully, and maybe you should think, rather than react before wasting time writing rubbish.

you obviously are a middle east scholar, who has studied these matters in depth, and discussed them at great length with people who have family on both sides of the conflict as well.

i don't blindly hate anyone: be it people of a nationallity, ethnicity, or religion. i hate people who engage in gorilla warefare against civilians, exactly like what happened yesturday. gofilla warefare is the most diffictult type to deal with, because people enganged in it don't follow the rules of diplomacy, conflict resolution etc....

what i'm saying is that people, nations, should not stand for this. the root of these acts needs to be addressed, and that means people enganged in this behavior have to be imprissoned and/or killed. I'm not saying that we should kill 1000s of civilians, who are caught in the middle of these conflicts, whom are innocent. i'm saying we need to eliminate the people who fan the fires, who encourage this behavior, support and harbor this behavior, people who are the enemies of freedom. if you know anything about the conflict in israel you'll know that the deathtoll is high, you'll know that israel has lived up to it's bargains many many times, and you'll know that palestine has not.

Originally posted by Mskr:
<STRONG>
When will people understand that you cannot kill people in order to change the way that other people think or behave? The terrorists who committed yesterday's attacks probably (impossible to know WHY they did this, since they didn't release any sort of statement to the world that we know of) did this to further some sort of cause. People who are calling for immediate counter-attacks are using knee-jerk, emotional reactions to call for violence and death; are they any different from terrorists who want revenge/reprisal for past wrongs?
</STRONG>

Right, again schollarly well thought out ideas. So instead of stopping gorilla terrorist warefare via killing the people responsible, we should shower them with flowers, and set an example by turning the other cheek. well that other cheek in this instance is american lives. if we do nothing, then nothing will change. and this type of thing will continue.

Are you so naive to think that we can change terrorists' minds to think that we are not the antichirst?
How the hell do you propose we act in order to change the way terrorists think and behave? YOU CAN'T, that is the whole Goddamn point. you can only kill them, there is no alternative. seriously what are you thinking? what do you propose we do? send them money and tell them we are so sorry for siding with their enemy in some conflict? wake up.

US and internationaly reaction will be swift and well thought out.

Originally posted by Mskr:
<STRONG>

Nobody in the public knows why the attacks happened yesterday, nor who perpetrated them. PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH TO SPEW HATRED AND FEAR!</STRONG>

i spew neither hatred, nor fear. i spoke my mind and thoughts. clearly you can't read things with a grain of salt. and clearly you don't have a clue. the above quote indicates this. if you don't know why these attacks happened then you've been living your life with your head in a whole. and just by chance yesturday you poked it out and saw what was happening, and thought to yourself, "how and why is this happening?" while most people understand why and who, and how
without waiting for CNN to spell it out for them.


and finally if i want to offer my thoughts and prayers up again, i will, regardless of your petty "no need to state the obvious again" crap.

this is an open forum, i'll state whatever the hell i want to, however many times i want to, without some jackoff telling me what i can and can't / should or shouldn't write.

[bewebste]

Originally posted by sek929:
<STRONG>

So lets hug the terrorists shall we? Schmuck.

Oh and this is not a governmental board, its a privatly owned and operated one, so whatever the admin says goes. There no such thing as the bill of rights here so stop whining.</STRONG>

I don't deny the fact that this board is privately owned, and that the owner has the right to do what they will with it. But, one cannot simultaneously hold up American ideals of freedom, including the right of free speech, and erase the words of someone who happens to disagree with you, without being a hypocrite.

It is very easy in this time of great pain and sorrow to react quickly and emotionally, but we must try our best to remember history. War has yet to rid the world of the hate that causes it. Simply attempting to exterminate the attackers will only make them fill with more hate. I don't pretend to know what the solution to this situation is, but I am sure that war will do more harm than good.

[TNproud2b]

if you're so sure that war will do more harm than good, then how do you explain the outcome of WW1 and WW2?

sorry, often enough war does more good than harm.

[gwrjr33]

Originally posted by TNproud2b:
<STRONG>if you're so sure that war will do more harm than good, then how do you explain the outcome of WW1 and WW2?

sorry, often enough war does more good than harm.</STRONG>

Not to take the other guy's side in this argument (I really don't need that phony, sanctimonious crap he's peddling) but WW2 was the outcome of WW1. WW1 did nothing but harm. It's hard to see how any good came from it.

[MacmanX]

Here is an idea. All the people who feel violence is the only solution should help one another buy airline tickets to Afghanistan, Lybia, Syria, or your favourite Islamic destination. We will all pitch in by helping you find maps, guidebooks, and weapons. Once you're all there, start killing as many brown skinned or turban wearing people as you can. This will satisfy your bloodlust without putting more people in harms way. It will also give the government time to find a rational course of action while still satisfying America's knee-jerk tendencies. And, most importantly, you will be helping evolution out by riding the world of you.

(Sorry to be so sarcastic and cruel, but I want justice to be served, not a dead Muslim on every doorstep.)

And remember folks, revenge is a dish best served COLD.

Edit: Are any non-New Yorkers able to get today's issue of the NY Times? It seems like they didn't print the regional edition here! Argh! Just when I needed reasoned and informative journalism most.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: MacmanX ]

[TNproud2b]

hey, careful there, gwrjr...

I thought you was a real 'merican like me.

Yer lookin' a lot like one of them pantywaist liberal gephardt-huggers iffin ya ask me.



back me up here, dammit.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]

[anarkisst]

Originally posted by gwrjr33:
<STRONG>

Not to take the other guy's side in this argument (I really don't need that phony, sanctimonious crap he's peddling) but WW2 was the outcome of WW1. WW1 did nothing but harm. It's hard to see how any good came from it.</STRONG>

I'd like evidence on that.

Anyways...the reason (until yesterday for some people) you can get out of your house, walk to your car, go to work or drive to the airport and fly anywhere unheeded is why we fought in WWII...our freedoms buddy...our freedoms and others.

They have been violated again on OUR SOIL and it is time to wake up and return the action...fight for our freedoms. Period.

[Voice of America]

I'll spew hatred and fear.

I hate terrorist and they should fear the US.

[pscates]

Originally posted by MacmanX:
<STRONG>Are any non-New Yorkers able to get today's issue of the NY Times? It seems like they didn't print the regional edition here! Argh! Just when I needed reasoned and informative journalism most.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: MacmanX ]</STRONG>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry...I just think it's great that the mood has been lifted somewhat with that statement. A little levity to brighten the room, you know?

Whew...for a minute, I thought you were serious

[Earth Mk. II]

Originally posted by anarkisst:
<STRONG>

I'd like evidence on that.</STRONG>

From what I remember from my HS history class:

&lt;oversimplified&gt;

After WWI Germany was hit pretty hard with reparations payments. It pretty much killed their economy. This eventually allowed a man like Hitler, who was very charismatic and helped the moral of Germany a great deal rise to power. yadda, yadda, yadda...

&lt;/oversimplified&gt;

It shouldn't be too hard to find a book on the subject in your local library (the DMCA hasn't made libraries illegal yet, has it?). You can probably find some stuff on the internet too, but I'd trust a physical book more.

In the very least, I don't want to see an all out war... they don't/won't fight by our rules. They're obviously well organized and their organization is probably distributed so just carpet bombing a country won't work... just think about how well our army could work against a army of guerrillas and terrorists... b/c that's what we'd probably have to deal with.

Just think before you cry "WAR!" Please.

peace