Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

♥ · Feb 15, 2007, 09:04 AM

"Well, you know, I hate gay people," Hardaway said near the close of an interview that mostly focused on his tenure with the Heat and the team's current state. "I let it be known, I don't like gay people. I don't like to be around gay people.

"Yeah, I'm homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world for that or in the United States for that. So, yeah, I don't like it."

After the NBA learned of Hardaway's comments, a league spokesman said Hardaway had been removed from further league-related appearances.

"It is inappropriate for him to be representing us given the disparity between his views and ours," NBA Commissioner David Stern said in a statement to the Sun-Sentinel.

From Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel

I am very surprised that he said something like this because I am sure it is going to have long-lasting ramifications for him and to be frank, it was inappropriate of him to say whether he likes or dislikes gay people.

He apologized through his agent and then he reiterated that he does not like gay people.

Is this a publicity stunt? He is going to lose a lot of fans I suspect.

nonhuman · Feb 15, 2007, 09:22 AM

He'll also gain a lot of fans, I'm sure. Plenty of people don't like gay people, and they'll all rally behind him as a public figure.

I don't really see how it was inappropriate for him to say it, unless it was completely unrelated to the topic of the conversation. If that's the way he feels then why shouldn't he tell people?

Mrjinglesusa · Feb 15, 2007, 09:43 AM

Not surprised at all. Tim Hardaway is an idiot.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 09:46 AM

Well, Tim Hardaway is not the brightest bulb in the box. While I don't agree with his views, I'm having a very hard time comprehending why he would apologize (Or should for that matter). He didn't use any slurs, that I can recall.

Edit: What the hell does he need fans for? He's retired.

♥ · Feb 15, 2007, 09:59 AM

But don't you think it is inappropriate to say that he "hates" anyone at all?

nonhuman · Feb 15, 2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by ♥

But don't you think it is inappropriate to say that he "hates" anyone at all?

Not really.

Eug · Feb 15, 2007, 10:02 AM

Well, even if he is an idiot, at least he's honest.

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Well, Tim Hardaway is not the brightest bulb in the box. While I don't agree with his views, I'm having a very hard time comprehending why he would apologize (Or should for that matter). He didn't use any slurs, that I can recall.

Edit: What the hell does he need fans for? He's retired.

Endorsements.

SeSawaya · Feb 15, 2007, 10:04 AM

I think the only ones who should care even 1% is the "International gay Tim Hardaway fan club". I doubt there is one.....

If he said he just HATES drummers, should I be offended cause it's my occupation/life? No. Nore would I be. I hate people too, I just make you guess who.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by ♥

But don't you think it is inappropriate to say that he "hates" anyone at all?

Is it inappropriate to tell the truth?

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

Endorsements.

He's retired. He might be on of the 10 best players of the 90s. He's done.

Dark Helmet · Feb 15, 2007, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

He'll also gain a lot of fans, I'm sure. Plenty of people don't like gay people, and they'll all rally behind him as a public figure.

I don't really see how it was inappropriate for him to say it, unless it was completely unrelated to the topic of the conversation. If that's the way he feels then why shouldn't he tell people?

So it is ok to say something like that as long as it is in context and there are others that feel the same way?

By your reasoning it is OK to publicly announce one don't like black people, retards, red heads or short people because others probably feel the same.

nonhuman · Feb 15, 2007, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

So it is ok to say something like that as long as it is in context and there are others that feel the same way?

By your reasoning it is OK to publicly announce one don't like black people, retards, red heads or short people because others probably feel the same.

No, it's ok to say whatever the **** you want whenever the **** you want. But it wouldn't be appropriate to go on an anti- or pro- gay rant in the middle of an interview in which you're supposed to be talking about something else.

It's just fine to publicly announce whatever the hell you want. I don't really care who you hate, and who you want to tell it to.

zro · Feb 15, 2007, 10:38 AM

Wouldn't you rather know who you're dealing with?

Maybe he wants to coach someday.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by zro

Wouldn't you rather know who you're dealing with?

Maybe he wants to coach someday.

I think Jerry Sloan might hire him as an assistant now.

Eug · Feb 15, 2007, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

He's retired. He might be on of the 10 best players of the 90s. He's done.

Lots of athletes do endorsement deals once they're retired. They may not be for as much money, but they're still money.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

Lots of athletes do endorsement deals once they're retired. They may not be for as much money, but they're still money.

I still think its negligible.

More interesting is Stern has pulled him from any NBA related events.

Eug · Feb 15, 2007, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

I still think its negligible.

More interesting is Stern has pulled him from any NBA related events.

Well, it's all relative.

It may not be a $10 million endorsement, but $75000 or whatever for a couple of commercials isn't chump change, esp. when you're not making much money elsewhere.

Now it's pretty much guaranteed that even those 5-digit $ gigs are going to be hard to come by for him.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

Well, it's all relative.

It may not be a $10 million endorsement, but $75000 or whatever for a couple of commercials isn't chump change, esp. when you're not making much money elsewhere.

Now it's pretty much guaranteed that even those 5-digit $ gigs are going to be hard to come by for him.

The biggest sticking point I can think of is that this may not be the type of guy smart enough to save his NBA salary so might end up needing the endorsements.

But speaking of relative, my point was its not like a hugely popular guy you seek cropping up put his foot in his mouth here.

Eug · Feb 15, 2007, 10:54 AM

BTW, here is my favourite has-been athlete el-lame-o endorsement.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 15, 2007, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

No, it's ok to say whatever the **** you want whenever the **** you want. But it wouldn't be appropriate to go on an anti- or pro- gay rant in the middle of an interview in which you're supposed to be talking about something else.

Speaking your mind is cool and all but I can't really think of any time where it is good to share your hate towards a group of people unless Hitler is your boss.

OreoCookie · Feb 15, 2007, 12:35 PM

It's interesting that there isn't one single NBA-/NFL-/soccer star who is openly gay. (This isn't just a US issue, in Germany, I haven't heard of a single gay soccer player in the Bundesliga (highest league for soccer).)

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 12:36 PM

Interesting? Not really. Who would really want that hassle?

Edit: No one who is still active in any of the 4 major sports has come at as gay.

::maroma:: · Feb 15, 2007, 12:56 PM

First of all, this is free speech. He can say whatever the hell he wants to say, whenever he wants to say it. As far as his career (or retirement career) goes, that was definitely a bad move. So he'll pay for what he said in that context. The NBA will lose a bit of cred here, but they will distance themselves from him now.

And just to be clear, I don't agree with spouting hate speech. But if this is indeed hate speech (and I'm not so sure it is), it skates a thin line. He just stated that he dislikes gay people. As far as that statement goes, it was pretty tame. But like it or not, this is America and saying something like that in public is not a crime. Bad judgment, yes.

Also, there have been plenty of gay pro athletes in the U.S., but none of them come out until after they retire. And its because of people like Hardaway. I'm sure there are more of these types of people in the NBA/NFL/etc, they just don't make it public that they dislike gay people. Remember where most of these athletes come from. A lot of them are the same pig-headed jocks most of us disliked in high school. And from my own personal experience, a lot of them were homophobic.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 15, 2007, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

First of all, this is free speech. He can say whatever the hell he wants to say, whenever he wants to say it.

I don't think anyone is disputing that fact though.

We are really just wondering what in the hell the point of saying something like that would be.

::maroma:: · Feb 15, 2007, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I don't think anyone is disputing that fact though.

We are really just wondering what in the hell the point of saying something like that would be.

Yeah, that's a good question. I have no idea what he was thinking. Maybe the guilt of keeping it from everyone so long just got to him and he felt like he had to make it publicly known. Maybe he was on drugs. I don't know, it was a bonehead move. He deserves to be shunned by any sort of publicity or endorsements from here on out, that's for sure.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

We are really just wondering what in the hell the point of saying something like that would be.

He was asked what he thought, he didn't volunteer the info.

::maroma:: · Feb 15, 2007, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

He was asked what he thought, he didn't volunteer the info.

That's a case where he should've held back his true feelings. Unless he didn't really care about the repercussions of his words. He very well may not have cared. But as far as him making any money through the NBA from here on out, well, good luck with that Tim.

Captain Obvious · Feb 15, 2007, 01:17 PM

Also, there have been plenty of gay pro athletes in the U.S., but none of them come out until after they retire. And its because of people like Hardaway.

Funny. I think it is because one of the main the consequences of coming out for a professional athlete would be the same as what others have claimed will be a consequence for Hardaway. No more big dollar endorsement deals.

Nike and Gatorade would not toss a gay male athlete a multimillion dollar contract. If for no other reason that they will not get the financial return from them being a spokesperson for their product. Its not good for the image. The public won't respond well to it.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

That's a case where he should've held back his true feelings.

I enjoy hearing the truth whether it smart or intentional. This may be John Rocker redux, but I'll take it.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

Nike and Gatorade would not toss a gay male athlete a multimillion dollar contract. If for no other reason that they will not get the financial return from them being a spokesperson for their product. Its not good for the image. The public won't respond well to it.

Well, with one exception. If someone like Kobe or LeBron came out... I think they'd still take their endorsement.

::maroma:: · Feb 15, 2007, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

I enjoy hearing the truth whether it smart or intentional. This may be John Rocker redux, but I'll take it.

I agree, I would much rather hear the ugly truth than hear lies.

Captain Obvious · Feb 15, 2007, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Well, with one exception. If someone like Kobe or LeBron came out... I think they'd still take their endorsement.

No, there's no exception. You aren't being realistic just politically correct.

I am not even sure if they would get the same money from the teams. They'd still make a lot more than the average player but having your team star be gay would cut revenue somewhere. In any case don't kid yourself as spokesperson they'd make a fraction of what they could have made before.

No one would go for the "Be Like Mike" campaign if Mike was gay. No major product campaign would make an investment like that because the public won't like it.

Eug · Feb 15, 2007, 01:36 PM

Yeah, telling the truth is usually a good thing. However, he definitely wasn't very diplomatic about it.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

No, there's no exception. You aren't being realistic just politically correct.

Politically correct? How is my answer even political?

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

I am not even sure if they would get the same money from the teams. They'd still make a lot more than the average player but having your team star be gay would cut revenue somewhere. In any case don't kid yourself as spokesperson they'd make a fraction of what they could have made before.

Which, chances are, would still be multi-million dollar numbers.

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

No one would go for the "Be Like Mike" campaign if Mike was gay.

Of course not. The implication would be 'Be gay like Mike."

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Yeah, telling the truth is usually a good thing. However, he definitely wasn't very diplomatic about it.

My jaw dropped when he said, "I hate gays." So rarely does anyone use the word hate in relation to anything.

Jawbone54 · Feb 15, 2007, 01:42 PM

What's funny about this is that he played in Oakland, and we all know what city that left him really close to...

Jawbone54 · Feb 15, 2007, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

My jaw dropped when he said, "I hate gays." So rarely does anyone use the word hate in relation to anything.

*plop*

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

*plop*

You so funny

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 15, 2007, 01:46 PM

The funny thing is Mel Gibson's "Jew" remarks will always be regarded as worse and he was drunk and apologized.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 01:48 PM

He's more famous.

Edit: And the Jews control the media!

Jawbone54 · Feb 15, 2007, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

The funny thing is Mel Gibson's "Jew" remarks will always be regarded as worse and he was drunk and apologized.

Because he did the unthinkable and made The Passion. It didn't even help that he made what he considers an anti-war film right after that.

keekeeree · Feb 15, 2007, 02:31 PM

The fact that he's a homophobic athlete doesn't surprise me and it doesn't offend me that he flatly states that he's homophobic. What disturbs me is how far he goes with his hate:

It shouldn't be in the world for that or in the United States for that.

There's a line that's crossed when you go from publicly announcing your bigotry to calling for the eradication of a group of people.

Zeeb · Feb 15, 2007, 03:56 PM

I think its fine that he publicly states that he hates gay people. I think the net result is that it makes the news, people discuss it and most decide he's an irrelevant ass. If he's that repulsed, there's good chance he's got some homosexual tendencies himself that he can't deal with. I just remember Haggard preaching over and over again against homosexuality and woops--he gets caught with a male prostitue. Oldest story in the world.

goMac · Feb 15, 2007, 04:47 PM

You know, I was listening to the radio this morning, and they raised this point. Imagine if he had said this:

""Well, you know, I hate black people. I let it be known, I don't like black people. I don't like to be around black people. I don't like them. They shouldn't be in the world that or in the United States. So, yeah, I don't like them."

There are a lot of people saying that he's just expressing his opinion, but it's a lot different then him just saying gay people make him uncomfortable. But the way he said it, it's just entirely inappropriate.

I mean, let me put it this way. I'm white, but I would think as a black person he'd understand what it is like to be discriminated against for who you are. I would bet he is not a big fan of racists, yet he's a self described homophobe. Being black is not the same thing as being gay, but they share a similar struggle. It's just an extremely hypocritical thing to say.

Dakar² · Feb 15, 2007, 05:02 PM

"Every comment that [Hardaway] made is labeled with hate," Amaechi said. "The percentage of e-mails I've received overnight that are going to have to go into a little box somewhere just in case I end up dead are unbelievable. He's been a lightning rod for people to finally open the floodgates and decide that they can say some pretty awful stuff."

"I will say this about the Tim Hardaway comments and the comments of people like him ... these are the loud comments that pollute the air," Amaechi said. "These are the comments that create the atmosphere that allow some of the tragic incidents of homophobia that we've seen. This is what makes the lives of gay and lesbian young people in schools miserable. It's what stops gay and lesbian people in the workplace from coming out as well as the fact they can be fined in 33 states for being gay. These are part of the problem."

I wanna what the fine bit is. Doesn't sound plausible.

TETENAL · Feb 15, 2007, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

It's interesting that there isn't one single NBA-/NFL-/soccer star who is openly gay. (This isn't just a US issue, in Germany, I haven't heard of a single gay soccer player in the Bundesliga (highest league for soccer).)

Schwule Fußballer: "Ein Outing wäre mein Tod" - Sport - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten
Schwule Fußballer: Geschäfte mit der Angst vorm Outing - Sport - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten
Schwule Fußballer: Models als Schutzschild - Sport - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten
Homosexualität im Fußball: Schwule und Lesben ausgegrenzt - Sport - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten

OldManMac · Feb 15, 2007, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by keekeeree

The fact that he's a homophobic athlete doesn't surprise me and it doesn't offend me that he flatly states that he's homophobic. What disturbs me is how far he goes with his hate:

There's a line that's crossed when you go from publicly announcing your bigotry to calling for the eradication of a group of people.

Bingo! This guy has some deep issues that go way beyond not liking gay people. He feels threatened by them, and he's allowed his feelings to be motivated by someone else. I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised that he would say such things; we like to think we know people because they're celebrities, and we follow their every move, but we only get to know what they want us to know, or when they slip, which this clown did big time.

Atomic Rooster · Feb 15, 2007, 06:01 PM

Change the person to a white guy from a black guy and change gay to negro or leave him black and change gay to honky or call...

Free speech.

Inciting hatred is a crime in most civilized countries. I guess we can see where the good ole USA stands.

::maroma:: · Feb 15, 2007, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

Change the person to a white guy from a black guy and change gay to negro or leave him black and change gay to honky or call...

Free speech.

Inciting hatred is a crime in most civilized countries. I guess we can see where the good ole USA stands.

Change him into a KKK member and have him spout that at the top of his lungs in public. Yep, it happens here in the USA. And yep, we let them. And every one of us stands behind their right to say that. The difference is, those of us smart enough choose to disagree and either ignore him or just work harder to convince other people not to think that way.

Making speech a crime is not what we're about. Every human being on the planet has opinions. If we aren't allowed to express those opinions with mere speech then that is called oppression. Would you prefer to be oppressed?

Chuckit · Feb 15, 2007, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by SeSawaya

I think the only ones who should care even 1% is the "International gay Tim Hardaway fan club". I doubt there is one.....

If he said he just HATES drummers, should I be offended cause it's my occupation/life? No. Nore would I be. I hate people too, I just make you guess who.

Do you advocate that these people be deported?