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Americans, meet your next president...
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Doofy
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:30 PM
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6333437.stm

Former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani has officially joined the running for the Republican nomination for the 2008 US presidential election.


Muhahahahaha. Four more years, Dems. Then it'll be Arnie's turn.
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nonhuman
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:33 PM
 
I really hope Giuliani gets the nomination. Then I'll know I can at least vote for one of the candidates if the Dems nominate Hillary and the Libertarians persist in refusing to nominate the reasonable and possibly even electable candidates...

[Edit: Oh, and Arnie can't be president. You need to have been born in the US...]
[Edit 2: But I don't think I'd mind Arnie all that much either. Most of the stuff he's done in California hasn't been too horrible.]
     
Kevin
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:33 PM
 
Yay
     
Doofy  (op)
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
[Edit: Oh, and Arnie can't be president. You need to have been born in the US...]
Isn't a repeal of that legislation on the cards somewhere? I heard speak of it a few months back.
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voodoo
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:39 PM
 
Arnold Schwarzenegger vs anyone = Arnold wins.

Such a shame he can't run for preznik. Damn.

V
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
nonhuman
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Isn't a repeal of that legislation on the cards somewhere? I heard speak of it a few months back.
It would require a constitutional amendment. I wouldn't expect to see it happen any time soon.
     
Sub
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:41 PM
 
Well, he certainly has the style, and a lot of people live in NewYork...
     
Doofy  (op)
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
It would require a constitutional amendment. I wouldn't expect to see it happen any time soon.
They're pumping for it...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...endment16.html
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nonhuman
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:49 PM
 
Well then, I guess it's a little more likely than I thought.

I, for one, think it's a good idea. I find it unlikely that naturalized immigrants are any more likely to be compromised by foreign interests than natural born citizens. In fact they may even be less likely since they choose to live here and, presumably, since they're actually running for president, have done very well since moving here. Besides, some of my best friends are not natural born citizens (or citizens at all!) of the United States.
     
mac128k-1984
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:55 PM
 
Man, I hope that fails, our founding fathers put that into the constitution for a reason and I agree.
Michael
     
Chuckit
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Feb 5, 2007, 09:55 PM
 
No way, it's totally going to be a black Senator. How could you possibly doubt that?
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Chuckit
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Feb 5, 2007, 10:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 View Post
Man, I hope that fails, our founding fathers put that into the constitution for a reason and I agree.
Our Founding Fathers also didn't put democracy into the Constitution for a reason, but nobody seems opposed to that idea.
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Feb 5, 2007, 10:23 PM
 
Nah. He's got too many skeletons in his closet from the time he was mayor of NYC . . . before 9/11. I could see a Gingrich/Guiliani ticket, though. Get the backing of the southern ultra-conservatives and northern moderate-conservatives and you'd have an un-beatable ticket. Although Gingrich is much more moderate on fiscal policy than he is given credit for but his ideas on social policy will appeal to the "rugged individualism" ideology so prevalent in American culture.

As for the Dems, I am going to stick out my neck and say John Edwards will get the nomination. Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are too polarizing and no one else is really all that appealing from a policy or personality stand-point. Perhaps an Edwards/Obama ticket might fly with the Dems but whoever gets nominated is going to get beat up on foreign policy. That is a real weakness on the part of the Democrats right now.
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Feb 5, 2007, 10:50 PM
 
CLinton/Gingrich would be interesting at they very least. That is some bad blood.

Like a live action Celebrity Death Match.
     
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Feb 5, 2007, 11:10 PM
 
I hope Rudy does get the nomination; then almost anyone the Dems put up can win. Rudy is a one-trick pony, who's fame came about only after 9/11. He probably does deserve a lot of the credit for being active in the clean/up, etc., but he has no broad political experience, especially in foreign affairs. He also has some skeletons in his closet. It would be a nice thought to have him run though.

As for Arnie, even if he could/would run, he's more left of center than a typical Republicrook.
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Big Mac
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Feb 5, 2007, 11:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Our Founding Fathers also didn't put democracy into the Constitution for a reason, but nobody seems opposed to that idea.
Right, they were of the opinion that democracy was a deficient form of government in the Aristotelian sense - rule by the mob.

Juliani is, unfortunately, too socially liberal to get Christian right support. He also bailed out of the Senate race against Hillary - officially due to cancer, but unofficially it is claimed the party did not think he could beat Hillary. McCain didn't succeed last time, astonishingly, but this time he could get the nomination. I fear he'd take hits on his strong support of the war in Iraq though.

Heaven help the U.S. if Hillary wins the presidency.

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Kevin
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Feb 5, 2007, 11:44 PM
 
I will be bringing this thread up in 2008 again.
     
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Feb 6, 2007, 12:16 AM
 
Run, Al, Run

The ideal candidate for the Democrats may be the man who won the popular vote in 2000 -- and who opposed the war in Iraq from the very start

A stiff vice president campaigns on his administration's legacy of unprecedented prosperity. Looks terrible on TV. Bows out, following a disputed vote count. Then, two terms later, with no incumbent in the race, he re-enters the fray. Promises to change the course of a disastrous war founded on lies. And charges to victory. I'm referring, of course, to the 1968 campaign of Richard Milhous Nixon. But four decades later, history has a chance to repeat itself for Albert Arnold Gore.

If the Democrats were going to sit down and construct the perfect candidate for 2008, they'd be hard-pressed to improve on Gore. Unlike Hillary Clinton, he has no controversial vote on Iraq to defend. Unlike Barack Obama and John Edwards, he has extensive experience in both the Senate and the White House. He has put aside his wooden, policy-wonk demeanor to emerge as the Bush administration's most eloquent critic. And thanks to An Inconvenient Truth, Gore is not only the most impassioned leader on the most urgent crisis facing the planet, he's also a Hollywood celebrity, the star of the third-highest-grossing documentary of all time.

"He's perceived very differently now than he was six years ago," says Frank Luntz, the Republican consultant who advised George W. Bush to dispute global warming during the 2000 and 2004 elections. "He's an icon. Imagine that: Al Gore, Mr. Straight and Narrow, Mr. Dull on Wheels -- now he's culturally cool."

...
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...how_he_can_win

I'd vote for him, but then... I'm not American. Hilary? Obama? Get real.
     
Buckaroo
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Feb 6, 2007, 01:02 AM
 
Unfortunately, I suspect you are all wrong. I have a gut feeling that we are going to be stuck with Hillary as our next president, along with Obama as VP.

Might as well get use to it.
     
zwiebel_
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Feb 6, 2007, 01:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by KarlG View Post
I hope Rudy does get the nomination; then almost anyone the Dems put up can win.
Agree. The Clintons have my vote
..... ovdje se glasovi odljepljuju iz rijeći i niko nikoga niÅ”ta ne razumije.
     
Jawbone54
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Feb 6, 2007, 02:54 AM
 
Hillary STILL = unelectable. She has a lot of Democratic support, but the middle still hasn't warmed up to her, even after the past year or two of very obvious posturing as a centrist.

Giuliani has way too many skeletons in the closet and not enough conservative support to get through the primaries. I say that McCain will wind up as the Republican nomination, althought Mitt Romney has a pretty good shot if he can make the rest of America care about who he is. Both are pro-lifers though, so they at least get a thumbs up from me (and a lot of conservatives) for that.
( Last edited by Jawbone54; Feb 6, 2007 at 04:09 PM. Reason: Misspelling)
     
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Feb 6, 2007, 03:00 AM
 
McCain vs. Hilary would be funā€¦
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stupendousman
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Feb 6, 2007, 03:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by KarlG View Post
I hope Rudy does get the nomination; then almost anyone the Dems put up can win. Rudy is a one-trick pony, who's fame came about only after 9/11. He probably does deserve a lot of the credit for being active in the clean/up, etc., but he has no broad political experience, especially in foreign affairs. He also has some skeletons in his closet. It would be a nice thought to have him run though.
Guiliani's fame came about when he cleaned up NYC and it became a decent place to live and for tourists to visit. Before that he almost single handedly reduced orgazined crime until it wasn't much more than a club for aging Italians just waiting to rat each other out.

Guiliani has as much foreign affairs experience as Hillary, is better liked than Hillary by most and actually got to where he is based on his own accomplishments instead of riding his spouse's coat tails.

I personally don't think that Guiliani is the best candidate for the job, but if it's between him or Hillary, I don't think HIllary (who has her own walk-in closet full of skeletons - some of them possibly real corpses) has much of a chance. Neither do her traditionally loyal Hollywood leftists who are backing other horses.
     
Buckaroo
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Feb 6, 2007, 03:15 AM
 
Your not taking into account that Hillary has worked hard to warm up to conservatives. Don't worry, it'll only last for 4 years. Then it'll be a Republican after her.

As soon as the left realize that she might have a chance, they'll jump on board.
     
Jawbone54
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Feb 6, 2007, 03:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I personally don't think that Guiliani is the best candidate for the job, but if it's between him or Hillary, I don't think HIllary (who has her own walk-in closet full of skeletons - some of them possibly real corpses) has much of a chance. Neither do her traditionally loyal Hollywood leftists who are backing other horses.
Woo woo...
     
Jawbone54
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Feb 6, 2007, 03:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
Your not taking into account that Hillary has worked hard to warm up to conservatives. Don't worry, it'll only last for 4 years. Then it'll be a Republican after her.
Don't kid yourself; they haven't fallen for this. As a matter of fact, it's a big joke in most conservative circles. She's given it her best shot to "warm up to conservatives," but they're shaking it off like a George W back rub.
     
Big Mac
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Feb 6, 2007, 03:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by zwiebel_ View Post
Agree. The Clintons have my vote
Do you believe in the government confiscation of private company profits? Do you believe in redistribution of the wealth? Do you believe in socalized medicine? Sky high taxes? Are you sure you know what a vote for that despicable women means?

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Feb 6, 2007, 06:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Do you believe in the government confiscation of private company profits? Do you believe in redistribution of the wealth? Do you believe in socalized medicine? Sky high taxes? Are you sure you know what a vote for that despicable women means?
But spending over a trillion $$$ on a pointless, unwinnable war that is costing hundreds of thousdands of lives is a better alternative?

The revolution is coming...
     
Kevin
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Feb 6, 2007, 08:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
Unfortunately, I suspect you are all wrong. I have a gut feeling that we are going to be stuck with Hillary as our next president, along with Obama as VP.

Might as well get use to it.
Hillary is disliked on BOTH SIDES far too much to get President.
     
Kevin
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Feb 6, 2007, 08:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
Your not taking into account that Hillary has worked hard to warm up to conservatives.
You are not taking into account that it didn't work.
     
Kevin
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Feb 6, 2007, 08:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Nicko View Post
But spending over a trillion $$$ on a pointless, unwinnable war that is costing hundreds of thousdands of lives is a better alternative?

The revolution is coming...
The revolution has already came.
     
stupendousman
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Feb 6, 2007, 08:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Nicko View Post
But spending over a trillion $$$ on a pointless, unwinnable war that is costing hundreds of thousdands of lives is a better alternative?

The revolution is coming...
So again...what was HIllary's plan for controlling terrorism, and how did it differ from Bush's?
     
Kevin
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Feb 6, 2007, 08:31 AM
 
Yeah I keep hearing what the left ISN'T FOR, but I never hear any PLAN they have.

It's become a habit the past 8 years.

I am sure it has to do with them knowing (If they even have a plan) them putting one out would open it for criticism. They'd rather be ambiguous and act like they have "the know how" to fix things.

It's really pretentious in an obnoxious way.
     
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Feb 6, 2007, 08:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
So again...what was HIllary's plan for controlling terrorism, and how did it differ from Bush's?
It doesn't have to differ from Bush's. With the lowest approval rating of all time, people will vote for anything but Bush. The biggest thing Giuliani has going against him is the fact that he's a Republican - or a Republic as the ineloquent current President would say.
     
Kevin
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Feb 6, 2007, 08:57 AM
 
Yeah Troll that is what you said LAST election.

But it's a good thing Bush isn't running in 2008 isn't it?
     
Jawbone54
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Feb 6, 2007, 10:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
You are not taking into account that it didn't work.
     
DakarĀ²
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Feb 6, 2007, 10:46 AM
 
He's more socially conservative than I like, but I don't think I'd mind him to terribly much.
     
Orion27
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Feb 6, 2007, 11:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by KarlG View Post
I hope Rudy does get the nomination; then almost anyone the Dems put up can win. Rudy is a one-trick pony, who's fame came about only after 9/11. He probably does deserve a lot of the credit for being active in the clean/up, etc., but he has no broad political experience, especially in foreign affairs. He also has some skeletons in his closet. It would be a nice thought to have him run though.

As for Arnie, even if he could/would run, he's more left of center than a typical Republicrook.
Obviously you are not a New Yorker. Rudy was a federal prosecuter under Reagan and was responsible for overseeing the US Marshals Service and Drug Enforcement Agency as well as all Federal Prosecuters. He fought the mob and won in NYC, and was responsible for cleaning up the city, most noteably Times Square, the subways and was instrumental in bringing in the likes of Disney to mid town. He revitalized the quality of life and brought the middle class tourism back to Manhattan. He reduced taxes and built surpluses and managed one of the most diverse populations on the planet. The United Nations is in Manhattan. He speaks with authority and conviction and there is no doubt where he stands on the issues. He is the polar opposite to the dodgers and weavers, which brings Hillary Clinton foremost to mind. He will be a formidable opponent in debate not only because he is conservative in principal but is unqualified in his support womens choice, fenceless borders, regularizing illegal immigrants,
and recognizing gay couples in administrative arrangements. What you see is what you get.
Which Hillary, will show up in the fall of 2008? I hope it's not the one who will " take all the profits"
     
Turias
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Feb 6, 2007, 11:21 AM
 
I am surprised that some of you Republicans in this thread seem so happy about this. Not all of you, but there are some people on this board who I didn't think would ever support Giuliani. He is pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-same-sex civil unions, and pro-embryonic stem cell research.
     
nonhuman
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Feb 6, 2007, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Obviously you are not a New Yorker. Rudy was a federal prosecuter under Reagan and was responsible for overseeing the US Marshals Service and Drug Enforcement Agency as well as all Federal Prosecuters. He fought the mob and won in NYC, and was responsible for cleaning up the city, most noteably Times Square, the subways and was instrumental in bringing in the likes of Disney to mid town. He revitalized the quality of life and brought the middle class tourism back to Manhattan. He reduced taxes and built surpluses and managed one of the most diverse populations on the planet. The United Nations is in Manhattan. He speaks with authority and conviction and there is no doubt where he stands on the issues. He is the polar opposite to the dodgers and weavers, which brings Hillary Clinton foremost to mind. He will be a formidable opponent in debate not only because he is conservative in principal but is unqualified in his support womens choice, fenceless borders, regularizing illegal immigrants,
and recognizing gay couples in administrative arrangements. What you see is what you get.
Which Hillary, will show up in the fall of 2008? I hope it's not the one who will " take all the profits"
Exactly. I would probably vote for Giuliani over most of the potential Democratic candidates. Of course, I think he's the only potential Republican candidate that I'd actually choose to vote for rather than being forced to vote for in protest...

Hopefully the Libertarian party will do something smart for a change and nominate someone like Gary Nolan this time around. Ideally, the Republicans would also then nominate Giuliani, and the Dems would nominate Obama or Edwards. Then I'd actually get to make a real choice where I care about my decision, rather than just being forced to go one way because the others are crap, or picking the lesser of three evils.
     
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Feb 6, 2007, 11:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Turias View Post
I am surprised that some of you Republicans in this thread seem so happy about this. Not all of you, but there are some people on this board who I didn't think would ever support Giuliani. He is pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-same-sex civil unions, and pro-embryonic stem cell research.
Hmmm... I may have to retract my last statement about him being too socially conservative.
     
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Feb 6, 2007, 11:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Turias View Post
I am surprised that some of you Republicans in this thread seem so happy about this. Not all of you, but there are some people on this board who I didn't think would ever support Giuliani. He is pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-same-sex civil unions, and pro-embryonic stem cell research.
Jeez, no kidding. Talk about a RINO.
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Orion27
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Feb 6, 2007, 12:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
Jeez, no kidding. Talk about a RINO.
My chief concern in national security at the moment and I'm not just talking about terrorism.
I think the the Clinton's fundamentally damaged the security of the United States vis a vis technology transfers to China. I have an issue with the corporations who were complicit in the this also. Sandy Burglar was instrumental in securing this transfer. Giulian has stated he has no interest in the need for more firearms legislation as recently in NH 1/30/07. The 2nd ammendment is an important issue for me. The realities of the women in the voting booth is as well. Which is why I always like a deadlocked congress. Nothing malevolent can get passed. Giuliani is a principaled conservative. He is not inclined to jail women for illegal abortions, champion gun control or deny iillegal aliens the opportunity to regularize ( with an english speaking end of track component he adds). The protection of gay's with civil unions is a practical matter which insures eligibilty for certain social programs.
     
Orion27
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Feb 6, 2007, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
Jeez, no kidding. Talk about a RINO.
My chief concern in national security at the moment and I'm not just talking about terrorism.
I think the the Clinton's fundamentally damaged the security of the United States vis a vis technology transfers to China. I have an issue with the corporations who were complicit in the this also. Sandy Burglar was instrumental in securing this transfer. Giulian has stated he has no interest in the need for more firearms legislation as recently in NH 1/30/07. The 2nd ammendment is an important issue for me. The realities of the women in the voting booth is as well. Which is why I always like a deadlocked congress. Nothing malevolent can get passed. Giuliani is a principaled conservative. He is not inclined to jail women for illegal abortions, champion gun control or deny iillegal aliens the opportunity to regularize ( with an english speaking end of track component he adds). The protection of gay's with civil unions is a practical matter which insures eligibilty for certain social programs. Given today's climate, if
Ronald Reagan were to burst on the scene unknown would he be electable? Greatness is moslty
viewed in hindsight.
     
besson3c
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Feb 6, 2007, 01:05 PM
 
I'm not sure about Guliani. He's pro choice, pro gun control, and pro same-sex marriage - not exactly positions that will warm him up to the Republican base.

Why do you like him Doofy? I always thought you held opposing viewpoints to these three issues?
     
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Feb 6, 2007, 01:14 PM
 
His gun control stance is the only problem I have with him.
Other than that, he's a Deomcrat with an R badge.
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Big Mac
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Feb 6, 2007, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sky Captain View Post
His gun control stance is the only problem I have with him.
He's definitely going to have to move to the right on guns and abortion if he wants the nomination.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Feb 6, 2007, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Ronald Reagan were to burst on the scene unknown would he be electable? Greatness is moslty
viewed in hindsight.
Are you trying to say that Ronald Reagan was great?

I guess he did do some funny movies with chimps.
     
Buckaroo
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Feb 6, 2007, 11:28 PM
 
Oh no, something just occured to me. Hillary could choose Bill Clinton as her Vice President. Then if something happens to her, he will become President again.

This is really bad.
     
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Feb 7, 2007, 02:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post

Muhahahahaha. Four more years, Dems. Then it'll be Arnie's turn.
What on earth makes you think that Democrats would not want a Guliani Presidency?

If he wins it'll be their votes that seal it for him. He's certainly not going to get Bush's base out to the polls with his positions on homosexuality and gun control. Which I'm somewhat surprised to see you so enthusiastic about.
     
 
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