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GOP looking for "great white hope" (Page 2)
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Chuckit
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Aug 28, 2009, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
I'm not trying to say that Jenkins meant it as a racist remark or that she wants to start a race war. I just think it's equally ridiculous for people like Crash to dismiss a negative reaction someone might have to the remark, given that the term has a well-established origin in a racial context. People are allowed to have negative reactions to it. That's not "race-baiting".

You know, it's an empathy thing.

I don't give a sh!t what she meant. People were rightly offended, she should have apologized, and I'm glad she did.
And if I'm offended by their offense? Where does it end?
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hyteckit
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Aug 28, 2009, 04:36 PM
 
Calm down liberals. You guys are so sensitive.

White is JUST a color.

Why not change the name of the WHITE house then.


A 40 year man sleeping with a 14 year old girl is JUST sex.

You liberals going to be upset with that too?
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Aug 28, 2009, 04:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
And if I'm offended by their offense? Where does it end?
Why would you be offended by their offense? They're not mad at you.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
ironknee
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Aug 28, 2009, 07:45 PM
 
it's a bad freudian slip.

she probably meant finding the next reagan... or republican superstar.

it's just very unfortunate that she used the great white hope... you can't make this up

freud also said there are no mistakes...
     
Chuckit
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Aug 28, 2009, 09:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Calm down liberals. You guys are so sensitive.

White is JUST a color.

Why not change the name of the WHITE house then.


A 40 year man sleeping with a 14 year old girl is JUST sex.

You liberals going to be upset with that too?
If you want to make an argument, make it. This passive-aggressive mockery is just going to get you banned without ever having the potential to convince anyone of anything.
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Shaddim
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Aug 29, 2009, 12:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
If you want to make an argument, make it. This passive-aggressive mockery is just going to get you banned without ever having the potential to convince anyone of anything.
He'll just take another forced vacation, he's accustomed to those.
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TheWOAT
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Aug 29, 2009, 12:35 AM
 
Is Obama a heavyweight boxer?
.......
     
SpaceMonkey
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Aug 29, 2009, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheWOAT View Post
Is Obama a heavyweight boxer?


Survey says...no.

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hyteckit
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Aug 29, 2009, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
If you want to make an argument, make it. This passive-aggressive mockery is just going to get you banned without ever having the potential to convince anyone of anything.
Those were Shaddim's arguments.

Shaddim:

Waiting for Obama to rename the "White House", because, you know, it's insensitive.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
hyteckit
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Aug 29, 2009, 04:32 PM
 
Jenkins' examples of the Republican party's Great White Hope

Here are the contenders to Pres. Obama

1. Eric Cantor of Virginia


2. Kevin McCarthy of California



3. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin




They are bright and white, and the Republican Party's hope of beating Pres. Obama for the Presidency.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
turtle777
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Aug 29, 2009, 05:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
They are bright and white, and the Republican Party's hope of beating Pres. Obama for the Presidency.
You deserve to be slapt. 'Nough said.

-t
     
hyteckit
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Aug 29, 2009, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
You deserve to be slapt. 'Nough said.

-t
My bad.

They are bright and white, and the Republican Party's hope of beating Pres. Obama for the Presidency.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Shaddim
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Aug 30, 2009, 12:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post


Survey says...no.
Looks like a middleweight, the smoking probably helps with the spare tire.
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OAW  (op)
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Sep 1, 2009, 02:52 PM
 
GOP Rep. Behind "Great White Hope" Remark Voted For Bill With Same Phrase

Rep. Lynn Jenkins (R-Kan.) took a bit of heat a few weeks ago for suggesting the GOP needed a "great white hope" to take on President Barack Obama in the next election.

The Kansas Republican backtracked from her remarks soon thereafter, insisting that she hadn't really understood the racial implications of the statement.

Alas, The Ottawa (Kans.) Herald finds one reason to doubt Jenkins's excuse. A month ago, the freshman lawmaker supported a resolution that included the very phrase "great white hope" in a historical context that made clear its origin.


OAW
     
turtle777
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Sep 1, 2009, 03:07 PM
 


-t
     
Chuckit
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Sep 1, 2009, 05:10 PM
 
Um…thanks for the pointless trivia?
Chuck
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kido331
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Sep 1, 2009, 06:03 PM
 
so the proof that she is a racist is that she supported a resolution to pardon a black boxer wrongly convicted?
     
besson3c
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Sep 1, 2009, 07:17 PM
 
I don't understand what brings you guys to bicker about this sort of stuff, how does it really matter? Politicians saying politically damaging things is nothing new, and we know that witch hunting for racists will end up the same way that all witch hunts do.

If you want to pick apart silly things that are said, why not start with Michelle Bachmann?
     
hyteckit
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Sep 1, 2009, 11:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't understand what brings you guys to bicker about this sort of stuff, how does it really matter? Politicians saying politically damaging things is nothing new, and we know that witch hunting for racists will end up the same way that all witch hunts do.

If you want to pick apart silly things that are said, why not start with Michelle Bachmann?
Nah. I just find her choice of words funny. Pres. Obama being black and running on the platform of 'hope'.

Calling for the Great White Hope and then name a bunch of white Republicans as examples of this Great White Hope.

I would definitely say it was a freudian slip on her part.


Remember how the conservatives and Republicans went totally nuts with Obama using a common idiom "lipstick on a pig". Somehow that common idiom was an attack on Sarah Palin.


Michelle Bachmann is nuts. You would have a new thread about her every week for every crazy nutty thing she says. Just this week, she is telling her base to make a covenant, to be blood brothers, by slitting their wrist.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
besson3c
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Sep 1, 2009, 11:22 PM
 
Feigning outrage for use as political traction is also nothing new. If we were supposed to believe that somebody who has established a career in politics was genuinely offended at the mere implication of being called a pig, why did it seem like a good idea at the time to advocate her being our next VP? Besides, just because one group of people does this sort of stuff doesn't give others a get out of jail free card.

Naming a bunch of white Republicans or Democrats is also pretty easy to do. However, being a Republican seems like a pretty exclusive club these days... It seems uninterested in taking on intellectuals, gays, atheists, anybody without a hard lined national security approach, and anybody open-minded to mere discussions of government involvement in national safety nets. I guess that's a whole different topic though...
     
stupendousman
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Sep 2, 2009, 06:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
However, being a Republican seems like a pretty exclusive club these days... It seems uninterested in taking on intellectuals, gays, atheists, anybody without a hard lined national security approach, and anybody open-minded to mere discussions of government involvement in national safety nets. I guess that's a whole different topic though...
It is. That's because that very notion is laughingly ironic and not really all that worthy of debate.

For every Republican in the party that isn't interested in "in taking on intellectuals, gays, atheists...."etc., there are probably two Democrats that aren't interested in dealing with people who have traditional moral values, born-again Christians, want the second amendment protections not trampled on, know that the "right to an abortion" is an invention by a court over thirty years ago and not anything imagined by our founding fathers, or anyone who knows the role our founding fathers intended regarding the nation's responsibility for national security and their views on personal responsibility.

Democrats can start talking about inclusiveness and a "big tent" when they start actually setting a good example. You don't get to set the standard when you can't even meet the standard well yourself. Just supporting enough "blue dogs" to get power really doesn't count, especially when it's clear that the "moderation" of your tone was just done for political purposes.
( Last edited by stupendousman; Sep 2, 2009 at 07:22 AM. )
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2009, 08:17 AM
 
Yeah, the "family values" Christian gun nut anti-abortion crowd is quite the diverse one...
     
stupendousman
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Sep 2, 2009, 10:58 AM
 
As diverse as the godless, sexually immoral, baby killing gunphobes.
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2009, 11:21 AM
 
Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate to what the public perceptions are, as I see them. Specifically, the Republican party is being taken over by vocal and loud ideologues that portray this "you're either with me or against me" attitude. I really think this is a symptom of the fact that the Republican party does not have an intellectual base that can compete with the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, etc. in terms of attention and the media spotlight. If you solve this problem you solve the perception problem, because with an intellectual component you would also likely have a more rational and reasonable tone based less on knee-jerky emotional stuff. There would be fewer birthers and people comparing Obama to Hitler and other such nonsense.

I'm not saying that these people don't exist, I'm saying that the blowhard dimwitted ideologues are pissing in your pool right now.
     
ironknee
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Sep 2, 2009, 01:06 PM
 
god.
     
stupendousman
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Sep 2, 2009, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate to what the public perceptions are, as I see them.
My point is that they really aren't "public perceptions" but rather are pieces of hypocritical propaganda which the left tries to imprint as "perception." The idea that the Democrats and the left are more tolerant to people and ideas that fall outside the desires of their base is laughable.

Just because the Democrats HAVE TO go after small special interest groups to survive because their ideas and beliefs often times go against the will of the majority of average Americans doesn't make them "inclusive" - it makes them desperate. Especially when you see how they pander to them, yet take them completely for granted.

Specifically, the Republican party is being taken over by vocal and loud ideologues that portray this "you're either with me or against me" attitude.
All or nothing. Yep.

Sounds like Obama's stimulus, healthcare, government takeover game plans to me. As is usually the case, when such strict absolutes are put into place, they normally backfire, as we can see now with historic lows for Congress and an unpopular Democrat president. Again, to suggest that this is something isolated to the Republicans is a joke. BTW...aren't you the guy who hates it when people post looking to characterize parties and their members one way or another?

I really think this is a symptom of the fact that the Republican party does not have an intellectual base that can compete with the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, etc. in terms of attention and the media spotlight.
Why does the "base" have to compete? Is this a game?

The "perception" problem comes from the vast majority of the mainstream media foisting hypocritical stereotypes like the ones you've foisted on us here. Despite that huge hurdle, the Republican party seems to compete pretty well. Most are predicting continued low approval numbers for Obama and between a 20-50 seat gain in Congress for Republicans next election. Pretty good when they've got to constantly fight against all the "preceptions" that the left is trying to create due to their control of the media (most of it, anyways).

I'm not saying that these people don't exist, I'm saying that the blowhard dimwitted ideologues are pissing in your pool right now.
Obama, Biden, Rangle, Geitner, Frank, et. al give us the same on a weekly basis. I'm pretty sure their bad examples are much worse for the Democrats than the "base" not being able to "compete" with Rush Limbaugh who doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected.

The Democrats aren't putting the "blue dogs" who along with reasonable Republicans seem to represent the views of the majority of Americans in control - they give it to their most partisan, most left, least experienced (or proven incompetent) people in office and we are seeing (and they will see in 2010) the results of that.

Given the fact that based on most recent polls it's the Democrats who seem to be having the biggest problems right now connecting with the American people, it would probably be a better use of your time to try and figure out how to get them out of the mess they are in, I would think. As is often the case, people are the blindest when they are looking at the other guy's eyes with a stick in their own.
     
turtle777
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Sep 2, 2009, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Hey, I'm just playing devil's Democrats advocate
Fixinated.

-t
     
Chuckit
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Sep 2, 2009, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Yeah, the "family values" Christian gun nut anti-abortion crowd is quite the diverse one...
More so than you probably think. For example, I'm an atheist and yet people would still lump me in there because I support the second amendment.
Chuck
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besson3c
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Sep 2, 2009, 02:23 PM
 
You guys are welcome to think that you get many votes from the gay community, the people that don't buy into the Dick Cheney style of foreign policy, that social conservatism is not rooted in Christianity and therefore this part of it might be off-putting to atheists, that intellectuals flock to the conservative party when it's pretty well known that the academic community is more often liberal (you know, the ivy league liberal types that are the target of many rants), and that people that are open to safety nets such as public health, Medicare, Social Security, etc. flock to the conservative party. If you really think that, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I certainly don't see much of this in my world.

Let's get real, the Conservative base is made up of a disproportionate population of people that share the same values. The Democratic base is a little more of a grab bag of viewpoints and perspective which is why it is often difficult for them to win elections.
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2009, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
More so than you probably think. For example, I'm an atheist and yet people would still lump me in there because I support the second amendment.
There are certainly thousands of exceptions, but that you get lumped into this crowd does agree with what I've said about public perception.
     
Chuckit
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Sep 2, 2009, 04:09 PM
 
A movement should be made up of people with the same values, don't you think? Isn't that the whole point? Otherwise it's just a friggin' sports team.
( Last edited by Chuckit; Sep 2, 2009 at 07:16 PM. )
Chuck
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Sep 2, 2009, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Otherwise it's just a friggin' sports team.
Isn't that what 99% of the PL sounds like?
     
sek929
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Sep 2, 2009, 06:25 PM
 
If so, this thread is 4th and long.
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2009, 06:41 PM
 
I've never been to a football game. Do they sell the same kinds of foods you can get at a baseball park?
     
turtle777
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Sep 2, 2009, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I've never been to a football game. Do they sell the same kinds of foods you can get at a baseball park?
Yes and no. Not every baseball park sells the same stuff as other baseball parks.

But in general, yes.

Hot dogs, burgers, pizza, nachos, wings. Typical American finger food.

-t
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2009, 07:01 PM
 
Okay, serve me up some nachos please. Thanks.
     
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Sep 2, 2009, 07:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You guys are welcome to think that you get many votes from the gay community, the people that don't buy into the Dick Cheney style of foreign policy, that social conservatism is not rooted in Christianity and therefore this part of it might be off-putting to atheists, that intellectuals flock to the conservative party when it's pretty well known that the academic community is more often liberal (you know, the ivy league liberal types that are the target of many rants), and that people that are open to safety nets such as public health, Medicare, Social Security, etc. flock to the conservative party. If you really think that, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I certainly don't see much of this in my world
We don't have to agree to disagree on everything.

I don't disagree that many of the categories of people who mention are less likely to vote Republican.

It doesn't appear that you can disagree with the list of people with special interests and political viewpoints I named aren't likely to get many votes from Democats either.

Where it appears we disagree is with your apparent notion that because the Republicans might appeal less to your list, that makes them less inclusive or tolerant than the Democrats whose views and actions turn off probably just as many or more as evidenced by the list I provided.

Let's get real, the Conservative base is made up of a disproportionate population of people that share the same values. The Democratic base is a little more of a grab bag of viewpoints and perspective which is why it is often difficult for them to win elections.
I disagree. The Democrats mostly appeal to people who don't subscribe to traditional moral values and want more government control. The Republicans appeal to those who more strongly support traditional values and have more respect for personal liberty and responsibility.

As I explained, the Democrats HAVE to pander to smaller groups of special interests because there is a much bigger block of voters who support traditional values, the Constitution as our framers intended, and a smaller role of government in our lives. In order to win majorities they have to do a pretty difficult balancing act of catering to smaller special interest groups while pretending to support the kind of ideals that the Republican party normally do not have to pretend about. Like Obama saying he was going to cut taxes and that he didn't really support all those radicals he had past associations with (and now we find out he's putting them into positions of power as "Czars").

They've done a pretty good job of late, but like a good used car salesman, eventually buyers will be able to see what they really bought and not be too happy about it. Polls show that's what's happening right now.
     
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Sep 2, 2009, 08:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
If so, this thread is 4th and long.
ebuddy
     
besson3c
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Sep 2, 2009, 09:29 PM
 
stupendousman: you've really blown up my fairly simple point into all sorts of other stuff I don't really care to get into with you - namely the special interests and all. I found your characterization of what Democrats want somewhat amusing though, it just illustrates the incredible disconnect between your party's rhetoric vs. ours, I guess. Not only do you not really understand the other position, but it is equally amusing that you also felt compelled to spin it at the same time. I know this sounds like criticism of you, but I have no doubt that the same could be said of ideologues on the other side, so don't take this personally. I guess this is what gives these sorts of talking-past-each-other sessions that happen between both sides such perpetual energy...
( Last edited by besson3c; Sep 2, 2009 at 09:53 PM. )
     
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Sep 3, 2009, 06:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
stupendousman: you've really blown up my fairly simple point into all sorts of other stuff I don't really care to get into with you - namely the special interests and all.
You are the one that brought up the cliques, niches and special interests as a way to paint Republicans as less inclusive. If you didn't want to "get into" it, you shouldn't have used them in a way that came back to bite you.

I found your characterization of what Democrats want somewhat amusing though, it just illustrates the incredible disconnect between your party's rhetoric vs. ours, I guess. Not only do you not really understand the other position, but it is equally amusing that you also felt compelled to spin it at the same time.
I was generalizing. The Democrat base is much more likely to oppose what I stated than the general populace. Not all Democrats of course, but I think it is a fair explanation as to why the niches you mentioned are more likely to vote Democrat.

I know this sounds like criticism of you, but I have no doubt that the same could be said of ideologues on the other side, so don't take this personally. I guess this is what gives these sorts of talking-past-each-other sessions that happen between both sides such perpetual energy...
No one is "talking past" anyone. You made claims that can't really be supported by the facts. Claims forwarded due to your own personal bias. Explaining to you that your position doesn't really make sense logically isn't "talking past" you or engaging in some kind of blind ideology. Sorry.
     
besson3c
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Sep 3, 2009, 11:22 AM
 
You weren't generalizing accurately, I don't think your description of Democrats applies to even a minority of them. I really don't think you get it.
     
sek929
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Sep 3, 2009, 12:32 PM
 
...and they've decided to punt.
     
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Sep 3, 2009, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You weren't generalizing accurately, I don't think your description of Democrats applies to even a minority of them. I really don't think you get it.
I'm pretty sure I'm accurate about the Democrat's base. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to stomach what their leadership pushes.
     
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Sep 3, 2009, 12:48 PM
 
The punt was blocked.
     
turtle777
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Sep 3, 2009, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
...and they've decided to punt.
You sure ?

Looked like a 90 yard field goal attempt to me

-t
     
besson3c
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Sep 3, 2009, 12:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I'm pretty sure I'm accurate about the Democrat's base. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to stomach what their leadership pushes.
I'm glad you're sure, but you're wrong, and you don't seem terribly anxious to correct yourself, so I guess we'll leave it at that.
     
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Sep 3, 2009, 01:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I'm glad you're sure, but you're wrong, and you don't seem terribly anxious to correct yourself, so I guess we'll leave it at that.
Your opinion is noted.
     
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Sep 3, 2009, 01:08 PM
 
When do we get to the part when they move in together and become a lovable odd couple, and in the process, teach us something about ourselves?

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
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Sep 3, 2009, 01:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Your opinion is noted.
As is your lack of curiosity involving a group of people you hardly seem to have connected with.
     
sek929
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Sep 3, 2009, 04:08 PM
 
On the first snap after the block, the ball was fumbled, it was then recovered by a linesman who ran to his own end-zone and shattered his femur.





Shortly thereafter, the stadium collapsed, killing everyone.
     
 
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