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New GOP budget
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besson3c
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Mar 27, 2015, 09:52 AM
 
Can somebody explain to me the argument behind raising defence spending while cutting education spending?
     
subego
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Mar 27, 2015, 11:51 AM
 
The basic answer is defense is a national matter and education is a local one.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 27, 2015, 11:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The basic answer is defense is a national matter and education is a local one.
I guess education being a local expense makes sense, it just sucks that many states are cutting back on education a great deal too. Oh well.
     
subego
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Mar 27, 2015, 12:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I guess education being a local expense makes sense, it just sucks that many states are cutting back on education a great deal too. Oh well.
This is ultimately where my (pretty hardcore right-wing) philosophy starts to bend to the necessities of the real world.

I like the idea of letting the states do dipshit things, but kids don't get to decide what state they're born in.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 27, 2015, 12:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The basic answer is defense is a national matter and education is a local one.
or state, but yeah, that's correct.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 27, 2015, 12:50 PM
 
They raised the wheel and property taxes by 25 and 10%, respectively, in my county to compensate for getting less federal grant money. I thought it was fair.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
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Mar 27, 2015, 12:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
or state, but yeah, that's correct.
Yes to state. I was aiming for brevity.
     
BadKosh
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Mar 27, 2015, 01:24 PM
 
The amount of money spent on 'education' has little to do with how well the kids learn. DC schools spend over 52K per student and usually end up at the bottom.
     
reader50
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Mar 27, 2015, 02:04 PM
 
I understand the budget proposal repeals obamacare again. Without a replacement health care program. I think they're approaching 100 repeals now.

Don't expect a budget agreement soonish.
     
TheWOAT
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Mar 27, 2015, 03:59 PM
 
Its silly to cut spending on any programs. There is a zero % chance of repaying our national debt, so might as well just spend as much as we can until this thing collapses.
.......
     
el chupacabra
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Mar 28, 2015, 11:33 AM
 
Accoring to this U.S. Armed Forces - Wiki
Armed forces spending has gone down, to stay the same since 1950. Id still like to see it go much lower.

     
el chupacabra
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Mar 28, 2015, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
The amount of money spent on 'education' has little to do with how well the kids learn. DC schools spend over 52K per student and usually end up at the bottom.
Remember when Mark Zuckerberg donated a100 mil to New Jersey
Mark Zuckerberg Gave $100 Million To Fix Newark's Schools, And It Looks Like It Was A Waste

Where Zuckerberg's $100 million gift went wrong

As I've always said people need to be more community oriented rather than look for some large outside systematic machine composed of people they don't know to fix all their problems. Having said that: Education starts and ends at home. A person's chance of success in life has little to do with quality of public schools. Zuckerberg is a great example.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 28, 2015, 12:50 PM
 
Why would you say that the quality of public schools has no bearing on the chances of success in life? This is a ridiculous thing to say.
     
subego
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Mar 28, 2015, 02:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Why would you say that the quality of public schools has no bearing on the chances of success in life? This is a ridiculous thing to say.
Little to do ≠ no bearing.

You get a D on this assignment. Resubmit for a better grade.
     
OldManMac
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Mar 28, 2015, 05:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
Remember when Mark Zuckerberg donated a100 mil to New Jersey
Mark Zuckerberg Gave $100 Million To Fix Newark's Schools, And It Looks Like It Was A Waste

Where Zuckerberg's $100 million gift went wrong

As I've always said people need to be more community oriented rather than look for some large outside systematic machine composed of people they don't know to fix all their problems. Having said that: Education starts and ends at home. A person's chance of success in life has little to do with quality of public schools. Zuckerberg is a great example.
I'll agree that people need to be much more community oriented, but to say that a person's chance of success in life has little to with the quality of public schools is just silly! The chance of a child's success depends a lot on the zip code he/she was raised in. Yes, parenting has an effect, but if you're going to tell me that a parent who is pushing their children in a wealthy school district with current technology and newer learning materials, versus a parent who pushes their child in a city like Detroit, or Chicago, or Philadelphia, etc, where they are working with outdated books, and "what's a computer," and hoping they have enough toilet paper (it happens), have equal chances at success, I'm not buying it!
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
subego
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Mar 28, 2015, 10:25 PM
 
Are not the definitions of success for a poor, inner-city kid different than the definitions for a middle-class suburban kid?
     
OldManMac
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Mar 29, 2015, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Can somebody explain to me the argument behind raising defence spending while cutting education spending?
It's simple; the war hawks in Congress are fed well by the "defense" industry, and the Republicans in Congress want to dismantle public education, so they can privatize it, which results in even more profits for Congress' handlers!
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
OldManMac
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Mar 29, 2015, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Are not the definitions of success for a poor, inner-city kid different than the definitions for a middle-class suburban kid?
Not if you're a multimillionaire. Anyone who isn't obscenely wealthy is looked down up by those who are. The very rich do think differently; they raise hell about entitlements, but they are narcissistic enough to believe they've actually earned the hundreds of millions and billions they have. I saw an article not too long ago, about the money being poured into political campaigns, and part of the article focused on people who are used to giving 100s of thousands of dollars, and getting invited to posh dinners and private meetings with candidates. Now, those same people are being ignored by candidates, because a million dollars is just the entry level for "serious" donations! This country is screwed! Our time in the sun is over!
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
subego
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Mar 29, 2015, 08:46 PM
 
Multimillionaires weren't in the question.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 29, 2015, 10:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Not if you're a multimillionaire. Anyone who isn't obscenely wealthy is looked down up by those who are. The very rich do think differently; they raise hell about entitlements, but they are narcissistic enough to believe they've actually earned the hundreds of millions and billions they have.
Nice blanket you have there, unfortunately it doesn't cover me very well and leaves my feet cold.

and yeah, I have earned what I've made.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
el chupacabra
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Apr 2, 2015, 12:16 AM
 
^^
I think he's talking about the kind of people who are ridiculously rich. They may have "earned" a number of millions throughout their life; but all these people who've become billionaires and whatnot, mostly didn't earn it. Most made their 100's of millions/billions from stock market IPO's (not by selling 4 billion dollars of good product). Which is just legalized gambling as far as Im concerned. The ability to make billions in 15 minutes... It's not natural... it's not capitalism... And the whole stock market thing has become even more ridiculous making people richer than ever since the internet allowed etrade babies the ability to hand tens of thousands over to these scammers with a button push. I wish we could ban public trading. I see how it disrupts & damages the economy by snuffing out competition from one day of IPO.... (think krispy kreme).

At the same time I can't blame "the rich". They're just taking advantage of a legal system as anyone would; a system which everyone seems to support. If the middle class think the rich are greedy, evil, narcissistic etc. they have the right to not hand their money to them. At the end of the day these people acquire riches by using extremely shallow marketing (think Target/Apple/Kohls/pepsi/liberal style adds) to convince the poor & mid class to give it to them in exchange for something they don't need.

The middle class also should be mindful that they didn't "earn" most of what they have either. The American lifestyle is dependent on outsourced slavery and literally stolen resources. It's been that way at least since WW1, and been getting worse. In U.S., even with the increasing divide of rich vs everyone else, people have it pretty good as far as things they can buy. The average person has access to more 'stuff' than anytime in history. The only thing's going down the tubes in this country are culture & sense of community.
     
el chupacabra
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Apr 2, 2015, 01:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
I'll agree that people need to be much more community oriented, but to say that a person's chance of success in life has little to with the quality of public schools is just silly! The chance of a child's success depends a lot on the zip code he/she was raised in. Yes, parenting has an effect, but if you're going to tell me that a parent who is pushing their children in a wealthy school district with current technology and newer learning materials, versus a parent who pushes their child in a city like Detroit, or Chicago, or Philadelphia, etc, where they are working with outdated books, and "what's a computer," and hoping they have enough toilet paper (it happens), have equal chances at success, I'm not buying it!
If you were to look at mass stats comparing zip codes and all other things being equal, then yes the kid in the "good" zip code will probably do better. Stats can be dangerous since they rarely show the whole picture. What I have a problem with is that the school system has become just drop my kid off and expect they'll adequately prepare them for life. Thing is, what all public schools have in common, is they fast-food the masses through the system with a cookie cutter education cookie cutter skills. Some zip codes get better fast food than others, but an assembly lined education is an assembly-lined education. I used Zuckerberg example since his dad had him taught programing at an early age. This is the kind of education-at-home Im referring to. Reading the writing on the wall and preparing your child to stand out from the rest. It doesn't have to be programing, it could be business skills like product design, or skills that lead to friends/networking like learning 2 new languages fluently, playing piano - reading music, or lots of hobbies. In school the most important subjects should be writing (which teaches people how to think) and math. All those examples are way more important than an A in Geography or things requiring text books/iPads as far as where they can take you in life.

And fwiw new text books are almost always the same as the old. They just rearrange the subjects to different page numbers. Every time I check out the book's paragraphs, and questions at end, they are word for word the same.
One of my business partners grew up in a Detroit ghetto. Other than the fact that he's a democrat, he turned out just fine.
( Last edited by el chupacabra; Apr 2, 2015 at 12:55 PM. )
     
Snow-i
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Apr 2, 2015, 05:47 PM
 
What's the point of taking AP Calc II if you don't even know how to balance a checkbook, cook yourself a dinner, or change a tire when you run flat on the way to work?

The reason kids in some zip codes are more successful is because schools are one of the biggest factors in newly-married couples home buying decision. Think of it as a positive feedback loop. Schools are better not because of funding, but because the kids there are surrounded by other kids with supportive parents, and the teachers actually get a chance to teach instead of just barely keeping them all from beating the shit out of each other.

Parents are far, far more important to a child's development than the funding at the local school, though funding is important. More of it won't do jack shit for kids with uninterested parents, much as New Jersey has so eloquently just proven for us. NJ, once again, gives us a prime example of how not to be. Thanks Jersey!
     
   
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