[wolfen]

Dunno if this is old news on these boards, but it's worth pulling up again anyway. This is a 2hr video on youtube. 21 people in various levels of military/gov't offering brief glimpses into what's going on.

For those who haven't seen it: Guess how many different species of ET's have been identified and recovered at crash sites?

YouTube - Shocking! US government staff confirm UFOs are real

[Big Mac]

Interesting. The Truth is Out There. I have only read summaries of the video as of now because I don't have time to watch it. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt that they really do believe these things. (It's also possible that they're part of a conspiracy to mislead the public by perpetuating the UFO myths.) The military guy who said there were X number of ET species identified mentioned many of them can live among us. Sounds like a nutty assertion if you ask me, unless you want to assume for the sake of argument that their kind either looks like us by some crazy cooincidence (which would put in doubt their ET origin) or they are concealing themselves for the purpose of infiltrating society. Sounds extremely far fetched.

[Visnaut]

I'm not going to watch this right now, but like they say:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I doubt this video reveals anything more than a couple of new theories and opinions, unsubstantiated reports, and no credible proof. Just like all of the 9/11 conspiracy videos that came out.

I'm not against the study of unexplained phenomena. In fact, more scientific resources should be spent studying and investigating reports of UFOs, given how many credible reports come from pilots and public officials. But it should be just that: objective review of evidence. Not conjecture of aliens among us.

[Gee4orce]

France just opened up all their files on UFOs last week. Apparently, about 20% of them cannot be explained.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

The military guy who said there were X number of ET species identified mentioned many of them can live among us. Sounds like a nutty assertion if you ask me, unless you want to assume for the sake of argument that their kind either looks like us by some crazy cooincidence (which would put in doubt their ET origin) or they are concealing themselves for the purpose of infiltrating society. Sounds extremely far fetched.

I respect your response as applied to the general public. But here's where I differ: these people worked in military positions and other high secrecy info. They either "suddenly and inexplicably" went crazy or their testimony is valid. And when you add them all up, it doesn't make sense that every official who acknowledges UFO's is lying. That mindset is irrational.

The Army officer you're talking about stated that he was personally involved in multiple crash recoveries. He either wasn't and he's lying, or he was. If he was, then why assume he's lying about what he's seen and learned? And he actually agreed with you, stating that scientists were baffled as to why so many species were of humanoid form. It didn't make sense.

Visnaut, at least one of the people has radar recorded, matched with a pile of other records of the incident. Second, eyewitness testimony is valid evidence for scientific inquiry. The absence of inquiry (or inquiry behind closed doors) does not invalidate evidence. That's politics.

[centerchannel68]

It seems strange to me that beings from another solar system, another galaxy maybe, would be able to have the technology to fly all the way to earth, then screw up and crash their spaceship into the ground. But hey, that's just me.

[Aron Peterson]

Crashing is the clincher. Technology generations ahead of humans yet their onboard computer systems can't detect where the ground is and there's no ejection seats or teleporter for the alien astronauts. UFOlogists are living in the 50s.

[Aron Peterson]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce 

France just opened up all their files on UFOs last week. Apparently, about 20% of them cannot be explained.

That's nothing. 40% of people are unexplainable.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson 

Crashing is the clincher. Technology generations ahead of humans yet their onboard computer systems can't detect where the ground is and there's no ejection seats or teleporter for the alien astronauts. UFOlogists are living in the 50s.

Exactly.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

Second, eyewitness testimony is valid evidence for scientific inquiry. The absence of inquiry (or inquiry behind closed doors) does not invalidate evidence. That's politics.

I wholeheartedly agree. However, with the huge ethical and scientific implications that come with claims of even the existence (let alone the presence) of intelligent space-faring extraterrestrial life, "eyewitness" testimony cannot be the only vector of investigation and confirmation.

I'm sure it's interesting to hear what these people have to say, and I will watch with an open mind when I have the time to spare, and I may even think it's plausible; but without concrete evidence such as government documents, wreckage, even bodies, I think we can all agree that it can be either be an absolute fabrication or absolute fact, or anything in between.

[wolfen]

Oh crap you guys are so right. I can't believe I fell for it.

Science proved long ago that people with green skin cannot make mistakes, that if you build a machine on a different planet it cannot fail, and that all spacecraft come with...ejection seats. Not only that, but their force fields make them impervious to any weaponry.

Our extensive knowledge of diplomacy has taught us that militaries on foreign soil would never try to disrupt flights from visitors -- let alone attack them. And to receive the warmest greeting possible from primitive species you should land in a heavily populated city. Preferably on top of a Television station.

Yeah, sometimes I forget.

[centerchannel68]

Dude. Think about it. Technology to power light years through space. Technology to survive in space, and protect the ship from crap floating around in space at high speeds. Ability to make it through the atmosphere in reentry. And then.... oh, woops, Borjag fell asleep at the wheel and plowed into the ground.

That is retarded. I believe in UFOs, but not UFO crashes.

[Big Mac]

I believe some of the things people associate with aliens are indeed supernatural but not in the way they assume - they're seeing angelic and other heavenly shapes and forms.

[Aron Peterson]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

That is retarded. I believe in UFOs, but not UFO crashes.

I don't believe it's possible or feasible to use spaceships to travel across such vast distances. If inter-solar-system or galactic travel ever happens it will be some sort of teleporter device that decodes a traveller's DNA or other (if robot, etc)chemical structure and sends that as data to be re-encoded elsewhere.

If spaceships were moving around out there they would have to use a lot of energy to move around, doing that warpspace sh!t some have theorised about, and sending data all over the place. Their signatures would be picked up by our astronomy equipment all the time.

We could be the most technologically advanced species in our very large corner of the universe. If anyone is more advanced than us they are so far away that we can't detect each other at all.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Dude. Think about it. Technology to power light years through space. Technology to survive in space, and protect the ship from crap floating around in space at high speeds. Ability to make it through the atmosphere in reentry. And then.... oh, woops, Borjag fell asleep at the wheel and plowed into the ground.

That is retarded. I believe in UFOs, but not UFO crashes.

The problem is that Borjag was flying a Space Utility Vehicle, which everyone knows is too top heavy, and he rolled it coming into the atmosphere and due to its weak roof, collapsed when it crashed.
Lighthearted fun!

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson 

I don't believe it's possible or feasible to use spaceships to travel across such vast distances. If inter-solar-system or galactic travel ever happens it will be some sort of teleporter device that decodes a traveller's DNA or other (if robot, etc)chemical structure and sends that as data to be re-encoded elsewhere.

That would be cloning, and they'd have to kill the original person so that two wouldn't exist.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

That would be cloning, and they'd have to kill the original person so that two wouldn't exist.

The other would be dead under that scenario due to the time factor involved.

[Aron Peterson]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

That would be cloning, and they'd have to kill the original person so that two wouldn't exist.

[Y3a]

So in the future their will be no malfunctions, and transporters will be a reality. LOL!!

[Dakar²]

Actually, in the future Apes will rules all. Damn dirty ones.

[Big Mac]

Maybe Riley's right: Home Page ~ Riley Martin & O-Qua Tangin Wann ~ The Coming of Tan

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Are UFO's real?

Yes, 100% they are. UFO just means: Unidentified Flying Object
It doesn't make them automatically alien.

I do believe in life on other planets but I am not convinced that the UFO's we see are actually alien road trips.

IF they are there is no way in hell they are getting here with rocket boosters or even ships with light speed. They must be using wormholes/portals or traveling between dimensions in the same space as us.

[Aron Peterson]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

IF they are there is no way in hell they are getting here with rocket boosters or even ships with light speed. They must be using wormholes/portals or traveling between dimensions in the same space as us.

All those things require an extremely high amount of power and energy to do and would be picked up by our telescopes as radiation and disturbances. Those signatures aren't being picked up, that's why I don't believe.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson 

All those things require an extremely high amount of power and energy to do and would be picked up by our telescopes as radiation and disturbances. Those signatures aren't being picked up, that's why I don't believe.

Ya well based on our understanding. I mean 100 years ago people here though by the year 1960 the main form of world travel would be by zeppelins. Even the empire state building was build with a zeppelin dock at the top.

30 years ago the only form of space propulsion was with rocket fuels and today we are using solar sails and Ion thrusters.

[::maroma::]

You're all basing your assumptions on our own perception of reality an physics. I think if we've learned anything at all in our tiny little span of existence its that the so called truths we discover almost always turn out to be untrue, or at least wrong in one way or another.

I for one don't think E.T.'s vessel for travel would be anything like our space vehicles. I don't think their technologies would be anything like ours. I would assume they would have a much richer and fuller understanding of our universe and how to interact with it than we do. We are a primitive species. When we look up in the sky and see a U.F.O. (something we can't identify) we naturally place it within our own knowledge and understanding. Just as our ancestors may have seen one and immediately identified it as something spiritual, as opposed to something like a visitor from another planet.

Anyways, personally I believe whole heartedly that there is intelligent life out there somewhere, and that eventually we will meet, if we haven't already. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if we have been watched all these years, while they wait until we are ready to meet them. I also wouldn't doubt that at the very least, an unmanned probe has crash landed on our planet. That seems a little more feasible to me.

[Captain Obvious]

Let's suppose that there is life on other planets, which I do believe wholeheartedly that there has been some type of life somewhere based on the number of planets out there and the age of the universe. The odds of that life being intelligent and advanced enough to travel into space this far is pretty slim. Then add to that variable the fact that they would have to coexist in the same time frame as us so we notice them, which based on my rudimentary knowledge of evolution has only been like a quarter million years? Compare that to the dinosaurs 150 million years. What the hell are the odds that those aliens would find us or even exist at the same time.

Its just so improbable that if it would happen in the first place and we were EVER (and I mean over the course of the earth's history) visited by another world it would be too hard to hide. The fact that some people spend so much time thinking up alien conspiracies points to some individual's psychological need to believe in something greater than themselves so that they don't feel so small and inconsequential. Its the same thing that spawned the creation of mythology and religions but unlike those two things this belief serves no greater good to any society. It just seems to get dorks off.

There's no space aliens zipping around above our planet and they sure as hell aren't being hidden away in a military base somewhere in the Southwest.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Dude. Think about it. Technology to power light years through space. Technology to survive in space, and protect the ship from crap floating around in space at high speeds. Ability to make it through the atmosphere in reentry. And then.... oh, woops, Borjag fell asleep at the wheel and plowed into the ground.

That is retarded. I believe in UFOs, but not UFO crashes.

It's 1000 yrs in the future. Earth has sent a spacecraft to a foreign solar system by creating bends in time-space. We don't know about the sporadic, localized fluctuations of gravity, electromagnetic fields, and so on of the remote planet. We don't know what kinds of energy or whatever our ship is going to be bombarded with by the civilization there (intentionally or no). And the ship is not optimized for the foreign conditions. Zipping around an atmosphere (a foreign one) is a lot different than going through space. Engineering does not optimize for all conditions.

Add to all that: you don't wanna hit anything, you don't wanna kill anybody, you don't control the skies, and who the *** put a flock of geese here? And so on. Oh, and you're moving at maybe Mach 20. We don't know what kind of navigational/propulsion vulnerabilities exist. All engineering problems come with tradeoffs, so you configured your ship according to your best guesses. You get good X at the expense of Y

Then some schmuck picks you up on radar and blasts your ship with gamma rays or some **** to grab your gear. Or whatever. The point is the problem is far more complex than what you are presenting. Hell, our current space shuttle launches are delayed because of mildly inclement weather. I gotta close my laptop or the 747 might crash? Unbelievable. Apache helicopters went down numerous times before they realized that some EM fields could drop them. And so on.

Lastly, there's more than a half dozen guys with dozens of years experience willing to say you're wrong. So why persist?

[wolfen]

Captain O. I used to believe the way you do. Really. Then I took a couple years of statistics and realized I didn't know what the he11 I was talking about. We don't have any basis for "the probabilities" of encountering other life in the universe. We don't have any data by which to even draw up the math. It's bogus. Second, the emergent properties realized in technological breakthroughs demonstrate that one or two simple innovations can change the entire nature of a problem. To make claims about what highly advanced technology somewhere else in the universe can and cannot accomplish is pseudointellectual horse crap.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

Captain O. I used to believe the way you do. Really. Then I took a couple years of statistics and realized I didn't know what the he11 I was talking about. We don't have any basis for "the probabilities" of encountering other life in the universe. We don't have any data by which to even draw up the math. It's bogus. Second, the emergent properties realized in technological breakthroughs demonstrate that one or two simple innovations can change the entire nature of a problem. To make claims about what highly advanced technology somewhere else in the universe can and cannot accomplish is pseudointellectual horse crap.

That's rather.......obvious. History is littered with stories of people who thought they had all the answers.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Dude. Think about it. Technology to power light years through space. Technology to survive in space, and protect the ship from crap floating around in space at high speeds. Ability to make it through the atmosphere in reentry. And then.... oh, woops, Borjag fell asleep at the wheel and plowed into the ground.

That is retarded. I believe in UFOs, but not UFO crashes.

The US has lost 2 shuttles and many many probs to mars and other destinations. Yes NASA was smart enough to make very sensitive equipment to travel millions of miles to mars only to have Borjag forget to convert Miles to KM and have it smash into the planet full force.

Lets not talk about all the plane and car crashes.

That is retarded. I believe if you are smart enough to build it you are guaranteed success.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

To make claims about what highly advanced technology somewhere else in the universe can and cannot accomplish is pseudointellectual horse crap.

Isn't that what you just tried to do by explaining how its plausible this hypothetical race of aliens could visit us? And then subsequently crash land?

If you took the geological history of the planet earth and picked out our time on it it would amount to being the size of a dime inside a football stadium. For some alien to find us in that timeframe before their own civilization expired would be a lot more than pretty damned hard. They would much more likely have found a molten ball of lava or even less likely the dinosaurs.

So no, I am not trying to come up with hard number I am just point out how improbable is it is. You have much better chance of banging all the Victoria Secrets models at the same time and then being elected POTUS. What you are suggesting is likely to be true makes proving the existence of God look like basic math.

[olePigeon]

Maybe they were shot down by our military instead of crashed?

You know, they see a vehicle flying in restricted airspace. They warn it to leave but it still approaches. They tell it if it doesn't leave the air space they'll shoot it down; but it stays in the area. So they shoot it down.

[Jawbone54]

They're susceptible to technologically inferior weapons as well, eh?

It's like the U.S. military being taken by surprise and crushed by an army of Philistines.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

Isn't that what you just tried to do by explaining how its plausible this hypothetical race of aliens could visit us? And then subsequently crash land?

If you took the geological history of the planet earth and picked out our time on it it would amount to being the size of a dime inside a football stadium. For some alien to find us in that timeframe before their own civilization expired would be a lot more than pretty damned hard. They would much more likely have found a molten ball of lava or even less likely the dinosaurs.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

The earth has been viable for hundreds of millions of years. For someone to take a (repeated) interest in it -- even without humans -- is logical if they stumbled upon it. So now it comes down to "What are the chances that a single ET visited Earth in the last several hundred million years?"

But even so, all your odds, probabilities, and stats are conjured up in your own mind. For all you know every galaxy has 100 viable planets. Or 1000. Or a million. You have no idea. And then to calculate odds from that fictitious number is again haphazard.

[Doofy]

Maybe they were shot down by the other aliens after contracting a Microsoft in their computer system (which rendered their shields inoperable).

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

They're susceptible to technologically inferior weapons as well, eh?

It's like the U.S. military being taken by surprise and crushed by an army of Philistines.

Or multimillion dollar helicopters being brought down by a few AK 47's.

Or a fighter jet being brought down by a goose.

Shall we go on with this...?

[Jawbone54]

Actually, I picture most extraterrestrials as LINUX geeks.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

Or multimillion dollar helicopters being brought down by a few AK 47's.

Or a fighter jet being brought down by a goose.

Shall we go on with this...?

No, it's not like that at all.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Actually, I picture most extraterrestrials as LINUX geeks.

But, like those Amazonian tribes which were killed off by the common cold, the aliens wouldn't have any natural defences against a Microsoft outbreak aboard their ships. All they gotta do is fly too close to MacDonalds and catch some wifi scatter off Joe Bloggs who's using his Dell to download porn while he waits for his Big Mac and that's it, they've had it.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

But, like those Amazonian tribes which were killed off by the common cold, the aliens wouldn't have any natural defences against a Microsoft outbreak aboard their ships. All they gotta do is fly too close to MacDonalds and catch some wifi scatter off Joe Bloggs who's using his Dell to download porn while he waits for his Big Mac and that's it, they've had it.

End of discussion. Thread closed.

*hammers the gavel*

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I would assume they would have a much richer and fuller understanding of our universe and how to interact with it than we do.

Then.... they wouldn't crash.

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Dude. Think about it. Technology to power light years through space. Technology to survive in space, and protect the ship from crap floating around in space at high speeds. Ability to make it through the atmosphere in reentry. And then.... oh, woops, Borjag fell asleep at the wheel and plowed into the ground.

That is retarded. I believe in UFOs, but not UFO crashes.

and i also believe in UFOs, but i also believe that their is a race of sub humans called asshats.


alex

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

The US has lost 2 shuttles and many many probs to mars and other destinations. Yes NASA was smart enough to make very sensitive equipment to travel millions of miles to mars only to have Borjag forget to convert Miles to KM and have it smash into the planet full force.

Lets not talk about all the plane and car crashes.

That is retarded. I believe if you are smart enough to build it you are guaranteed success.

So what? The shuttle was built using mainly 1950s and 1960s technology. It's archiac, by today's standards. If you're intelligent enough to build a craft that flies around in space, avoiding all sorts of obstacles, mastered the cyrogenic/cloning thing to keep beings alive, survive through reentry into an atmosphere of a foreign planet, and all that jazz, I promise you a f*cking flock of birds is not going to cause a crash landing.

[brassplayersrock²]

a land to air missile could.


alex

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Then.... they wouldn't crash.

Dude, you can have a fuller understanding of your universe and still make mistakes within it. Stop playing absolutes!!

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson 

I don't believe it's possible or feasible to use spaceships to travel across such vast distances. If inter-solar-system or galactic travel ever happens it will be some sort of teleporter device that decodes a traveller's DNA or other (if robot, etc)chemical structure and sends that as data to be re-encoded elsewhere.

If spaceships were moving around out there they would have to use a lot of energy to move around, doing that warpspace sh!t some have theorised about, and sending data all over the place. Their signatures would be picked up by our astronomy equipment all the time.

We could be the most technologically advanced species in our very large corner of the universe. If anyone is more advanced than us they are so far away that we can't detect each other at all.

wow you rattled off a bunch of crap proving you have no idea what you're talking about.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

So what? The shuttle was built using mainly 1950s and 1960s technology. It's archiac, by today's standards. If you're intelligent enough to build a craft that flies around in space, avoiding all sorts of obstacles, mastered the cyrogenic/cloning thing to keep beings alive, survive through reentry into an atmosphere of a foreign planet, and all that jazz, I promise you a f*cking flock of birds is not going to cause a crash landing.

By your arguments, humans should have already come up with all of the cures to all diseases, conquered famine, and pretty much solved the whole dying thing. I mean hell, we've lived through thousands upon thousands of years of all this stuff. We know how to cure all sorts of ailments. We can fly a frickin space ship. We can send pictures and stuff through the air, invisibly, and have it magically come up halfway across the planet! Surely we wouldn't be so dumb as to let something as tiny as a little microscopic virus take us down.

But alas, we make mistakes and haven't figured out a whole crapload of stuff.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Dude, you can have a fuller understanding of your universe and still make mistakes within it. Stop playing absolutes!!

Stop playing stupid.!! A craft that can fly across the galaxy and built to withstand gamma radiation and interstellar crap flying around at thousands of miles an hour with an intellect or knowledge of the universe FAR superior to ours is NOT going to freakin' crash because of some damn birds. That's like saying a cruiseship would sink if it hit some fish.

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

Isn't that what you just tried to do by explaining how its plausible this hypothetical race of aliens could visit us? And then subsequently crash land?

If you took the geological history of the planet earth and picked out our time on it it would amount to being the size of a dime inside a football stadium. For some alien to find us in that timeframe before their own civilization expired would be a lot more than pretty damned hard. They would much more likely have found a molten ball of lava or even less likely the dinosaurs.

So no, I am not trying to come up with hard number I am just point out how improbable is it is. You have much better chance of banging all the Victoria Secrets models at the same time and then being elected POTUS. What you are suggesting is likely to be true makes proving the existence of God look like basic math.

Wrong. Any advanced civilization does the obvious: they search for what they know.
Extropolate what we would do: Search for yellow stars and eliminate everything else initially. Sure the others might have life, but we KNOW our yellow star system supports life.
Next is taking a survey for planets in that yellow star system to determine the likelyhood of life similar to ours. Again, we have emerging technology to do so, we are in the infancy of it, a suficiently advanced race could really make us look stupid in this respect, and guage that kind of thing from their home before ever sending craft.
Only after you establish that you have met certain criteria would you send ships. You simply dont send them out randomly.

Having seen what I absolutely and firmly believe to be alien craft I dont worry about the "maybe we have been visited" part, I am secure in the knowledge its already happening. The rest of you can believe what you want.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

By your arguments, humans should have already come up with all of the cures to all diseases, conquered famine, and pretty much solved the whole dying thing.

You're looking at the wrong way buddy. Right now, space is still 'dangerous' for us. Our technology isn't very up to snuff, we only made it to the moon a few times, and it's still very very risky to launch people into space, just out of the atmosphere. We can't even TRAVEL in outerspace, because we have no way to freeze people, or clone them, whatever. By the time we can actually travel to other galaxies, I"M SURE that the technology would have advanced far enough so that birds/weather won't be a freakin' problem.