[red rocket]

I've tried to be relatively polite about it, but since next to none of the stupidly hate-mongering, right wing monotheists around here seem to be willing to abandon their path of justifying repression and war in the name of religion, I feel obliged to take a more aggressive stance.

Some people intermittently have made some good points, but they're being drowned out by the crazy.

Notice to Jebus-loving sheeple: Just because you're a bloody Believer™ and you've got a pic of teh Jebus over your bed, doesn't mean your BS is the best thing ever, and you are not automatically right about everything. Thing is, you're not using your brains effectively enough to qualify as an expert in blabbing about "God." You don't know enough about these matters, and pretending your personal opinion of what constitutes "Truth" is just that, your personal opinion - it is not "THE TRUTH" as far as others are concerned, and it's exceptionally stupid and offensive to constantly tell others that it is. And by the way, Jebus does not wuv you. Inciting religious and racial hatred is not a part of any sane form of Christianity (or Judaism, or Islam), in fact most intelligent people would probably support my position that Jebus (assuming it's the sane, goody-goody Jebus, not a crazed Osama bin Laden analogue) would have been appalled if he'd thought (alternatively: known) the religion he was creating would result in a world full of crazy pseudo-Xtian maniacs encouraging submission to non-divine authorities, race wars and crusades.

All you're doing is bleating out recycled, nonsensical memes, as well as deluding yourself that you understand about Gnosis, and doing that, combined with anti-libertarian, anti-humanitarian hate speech, does not help in combatting the terrorist menace. It's precisely what the arseholes want you to do: act, talk, think like a pathological, terrorised cretin.

"The values of this Western civilization under the leadership of America have been destroyed. Those awesome symbolic towers that speak of liberty, human rights, and humanity have been destroyed. They have gone up in smoke."

- Osama Bin Laden, October 2001.

It's a MEME war.

LIFE-LOVE-LIBERTY vs death-hate-oppression.

If you're on the LLL side, disseminating dho memes is a bad move.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by red rocket

I've tried to be relatively polite about it, but since next to none of the stupidly hate-mongering, right wing monotheists around here seem to be willing to abandon their path of justifying repression and war in the name of religion

*cough*
Since when did anyone but you anti-war sheepies say that the war was about religion?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by red rocket

...I feel obliged to take a more aggressive stance...[/b]

Heh, I don't know why that's so freaking funny to me.





Good luck finding someone who cares.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by red rocket

I've tried to be relatively polite about it, but since next to none of the stupidly hate-mongering, right wing monotheists around here seem to be willing to abandon their path of justifying repression and war in the name of religion, I feel obliged to take a more aggressive stance.

As a monotheist, I can only assume that you include me in this group of 'hate-mongering, right-wing monotheists' and so I feel compelled to act. Although I have seen Islam take a lot of undeserved heat here recently, I have seen no one attempting to justify the Iraq situation in religious terms.

Notice to Jebus-loving sheeple: Just because you're a bloody Believer™ and you've got a pic of teh Jebus over your bed, doesn't mean your BS is the best thing ever, and you are not automatically right about everything.

I suppose that I am what you would term a "Believer", though not exactly in the most traditional of ways. In any case, I do not have a picture of Jesus over my bed. That would be rather difficult, given that there's no record of what Jesus looked like, but even if there were I wouldn't want one anyway.

By the way, although I am not normally offended by the term 'Jebus', you are very clearly trying to use it in an insulting manner, and I am offended by your intent.

Thing is, you're not using your brains effectively enough to qualify as an expert in blabbing about "God." You don't know enough about these matters...

On what grounds do you justify this accusation?

...and pretending your personal opinion of what constitutes "Truth" is just that, your personal opinion - it is not "THE TRUTH" as far as others are concerned, and it's exceptionally stupid and offensive to constantly tell others that it is.

Pot, kettle, black.

Inciting religious and racial hatred is not a part of any sane form of Christianity (or Judaism, or Islam)...

On this, at least, we agree, though I'm forced to wonder exactly how you define the term 'sane' as applies to these religions.

...in fact most intelligent people would probably support my position that Jebus (assuming it's the sane, goody-goody Jebus, not a crazed Osama bin Laden analogue) would have been appalled if he'd thought (alternatively: known) the religion he was creating would result in a world full of crazy pseudo-Xtian maniacs encouraging submission to non-divine authorities, race wars and crusades.

Not only did Jesus know this, he was just as appalled as you say he would have been. He called such corrupt faith a "disgusting thing", and was quite bitter about it.

All you're doing is bleating out recycled, nonsensical memes, as well as deluding yourself that you understand about Gnosis...

It's been a long time since I heard anyone mention Gnosis on these boards. Where are you getting this accusation from?

LIFE-LOVE-LIBERTY vs death-hate-oppression.

If you're on the LLL side, disseminating dho memes is a bad move.

On this we agree, but you have been accusing people of "disseminating dho memes" without any evidence.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by Doofy

*cough*
Since when did anyone but you anti-war sheepies say that the war was about religion?

Originally Posted by Doofy

Well... If you bomb mecca then all the islamics will start fighting - it'll be all-out war. Once this war is over, the problems associated with islamic terrorism will be gone forever.

You're a hypocrite.

Miscategorised me, as well. No surprise, you're a sheep. Bush-loving, plod-loving sheep.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Heh, I don't know why that's so freaking funny to me.

I don't know, either, but are you genuinely amused, or are you outraged and using humour in an attempt to belittle me? If it's the former, I'm pleased that I managed to entertain you. If it's the latter, you have failed.

Good luck finding someone who cares.

Thank you.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by Millennium

As a monotheist, I can only assume that you include me in this group of 'hate-mongering, right-wing monotheists' and so I feel compelled to act. Although I have seen Islam take a lot of undeserved heat here recently, I have seen no one attempting to justify the Iraq situation in religious terms.

You assume a bit much. I don't consider all monotheists hate-mongering and right wing, but the style of writing was expressly calculated to invite in a wider range of more moderate, more open-minded people, yes.

I suppose that I am what you would term a "Believer", though not exactly in the most traditional of ways. In any case, I do not have a picture of Jesus over my bed. That would be rather difficult, given that there's no record of what Jesus looked like, but even if there were I wouldn't want one anyway.

Interesting. Why wouldn't you want one?

By the way, although I am not normally offended by the term 'Jebus', you are very clearly trying to use it in an insulting manner, and I am offended by your intent.

My intent, as far as your group is concerned, is to a polite but rational discussion of the charge specified as the thread title. Based on my experience in dealing with the extreme elements, I have found that they are too dogmatic, categorical, and judgemental to be capable of intelligent discussion, unfortunately.

On what grounds do you justify this accusation?

The proof is in the pudding.

Pot, kettle, black.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

On this, at least, we agree, though I'm forced to wonder exactly how you define the term 'sane' as applies to these religions.

We could agree on a lot of issues. The problem, as I see it, is that one of us demonstrates a habit to tend to speak of his personal beliefs in terms that work best whithin groups with members with identical views, less well in groups that agree to disagree up to a point, works even less well among groups of people coming from different monotheist faith groups who mostly agree on the monotheism part but little else. It works very badly with people outside of a monotheist faith system, and when you come up against someone who is not using a faith system, it becomes impossible to discuss anything spiritual, at all. It is possible to be spiritual without being a theist, but some of your statements are already beginning to suggest that you are not prepared to understand unless I cloak it in religious terms.

From my point of view, that is rather unfortunate. For example, your next statement,

Not only did Jesus know this, he was just as appalled as you say he would have been. He called such corrupt faith a "disgusting thing", and was quite bitter about it.

We agree such a faith is a corruption and cannot arise from a sane mind.

However, the circumstance that you phrase our identical position in absolutist terms forces me to either pretend I share your faith when I don't, or ask you to at least try to avoid making these absolute statements in the interest of mutual comprehension.

It's been a long time since I heard anyone mention Gnosis on these boards. Where are you getting this accusation from?

I do not have this communication dilemma with Gnostics.

On this we agree, but you have been accusing people of "disseminating dho memes" without any evidence.

Did you read the thread about which religion people thought was most acceptable? Zimphire, despite all his protestations to the opposite, is not what you and I and teh good Jebus (no offence) consider a Christian, and he has. (Unless of course, YOU are Zimphire, in which case this is a more convincing impersonation attempt.)

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by red rocket

You're a hypocrite.

Let's try to not take statements about two different wars and lump them together, eh? One of these wars took place a couple years ago. The other is yet to begin.

[RAILhead]

I think I was laughing because your knickers were in such a wad that you felt "obligated" to post your opinion on an online forum as a means by which "take a stand" or "make a point."

Nobody cares.

It's teh internet.

You're taking it WAAAAAAAY too seriously -- especially on a Mac Forum.

That is all.

[dcolton]

Originally Posted by Doofy

*cough*
Since when did anyone but you anti-war sheepies say that the war was about religion?

It IS about religion! It is about stamping out a fanaticism that the liberal anti-war weenies hate so much. It is about the fanaticism of killer muslims who prey on the innocent...women, children and liberals included.

I still don't understand how liberals can hate 'extreme' Christianity but do everything in their power to defend fanatic muslims who blow themselves up in the name of Allah.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by dcolton

It IS about religion! It is about stamping out a fanaticism that the liberal anti-war weenies hate so much. It is about the fanaticism of killer muslims who prey on the innocent...women, children and liberals included.

Arh. I was under the impression that he was on about Iraq. Which as far as I'm concerned wasn't to do with religion (Saddam being secular) but more to do with it being a good chance to rightfully take out a general-purpose nutcase.
Your statement is valid in the WoT though.

Originally Posted by dcolton

I still don't understand how liberals can hate 'extreme' Christianity but do everything in their power to defend fanatic muslims who blow themselves up in the name of Allah.

I never understood that myself. Maybe it's simply anti-Christianity, period?

[dcolton]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Arh. I was under the impression that he was on about Iraq. Which as far as I'm concerned wasn't to do with religion (Saddam being secular) but more to do with it being a good chance to rightfully take out a general-purpose nutcase.
Your statement is valid in the WoT though.

Secular, yes...nonetheless, remember when he launched scuds against Israel?
Wasn't it fanaticism that motivated Hussein to kill 100,000+ kurds?

I never understood that myself. Maybe it's simply anti-Christianity, period?

A hate for God, perhaps.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by dcolton

I still don't understand how liberals can hate 'extreme' Christianity but do everything in their power to defend fanatic muslims who blow themselves up in the name of Allah.

Nobody is defending "fanatic muslims who blow themselves up in the name of Allah". The people liberals defend are the moderate Muslims who, simply because they are Muslim, get lumped together by people who don't understand Islam with the fanatics who call themselves muslims and blow themselves up.

[dcolton]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Nobody is defending "fanatic muslims who blow themselves up in the name of Allah". The people liberals defend are the moderate Muslims who, simply because they are Muslim, get lumped together with the fanatics who call themselves muslims and blow themselves up.

But when the fanatics are in control and the so-called moderates sit around in silence as killer muslims kill innocent men women and children...who is the enemy?

You go after the fanatics...right? If the moderates get in the way...perhaps they aten't really moderate and enjoy watching innocent children die.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by dcolton

But when the fanatics are in control and the so-called moderates sit around in silence as killer muslims kill innocent men women and children...who is the enemy?

Except that not all moderates are sitting around in silence. There are Muslims, even in this forum, that speak out against the terrorism. You could hear them if you listened.

Originally Posted by dcolton

If the moderates get in the way...perhaps they aten't really moderate and enjoy watching innocent children die.

Don't you run the risk of killing innocent children yourself, that way?

[dcolton]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Except that not all moderates are sitting around in silence. There are Muslims, even in this forum, that speak out against the terrorism. You could hear them if you listened.

What...condemning and justifying at the same time?

Don't you run the risk of killing innocent children yourself, that way?

NO

[Y3a]

Red(neck) rocket stated:

<< Thing is, you're not using your brains effectively enough to qualify as an expert in blabbing about "God." >>
and YOU DO? How many other gigantic fools have said that before???

Get over yourself.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Y3a

Red(neck) rocket

Please don't insult rednecks, thanks.

[Demonhood]

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