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suvsr4terrorists · Jul 6, 2005, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by jersey

i had one when i lived in cleveland...overall ....meh.

it was cold in the winter, and almost too hot in the summer. it handled like crap... all the time, and they're loud as hell. plus, mine had an oil pressure issue (which i found out to be pretty common after talking to a few others)

however it was awesome off road, and the chicks loved it.

just f.y.i.

Exactly what I was saying. It's good off road, and chicks like it. Other than that it's a shitty choice for a vehicle.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 6, 2005, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

Wrong on all points, my friend. I had a 97 SE with the 4 cylinder. It acceclerated well enough, you just have to know how to shift gears. And Wranglers have the best heaters I've EVER seen in any car, so the cold weather won't bother you... And the soft top is loud at highway speeds, but the hard top isn't. And you don't buy a Wrangler for ergonomics. That's what BMW's and Audi's are for. And they don't get any worse gas mileage than my Hemi Durango.

And yes, the chicks dig them.

I'm thinking about getting another one soon. I miss mine very much badly.

Do you even read? I said "small engine + AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION= horsepoo acceleration. HENCE, if you had an automatic, I don't see how 'knowing how to shift gears' would help at all, do you? Jesus, go post in some sports threads or something. As for it not getting any worse gas mileage than your HEMI DURANGO,....

do you even realize the idiocy of that statement?!

You are saying "Oh it isn't htat bad, it's about the same as my V8 Bigass SUV".

What vehicle gets WORSE mpg than your hemi durango?!?!?!

Jesus christ...

turboSPE · Jul 6, 2005, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by SOLIDAge

my current 1995 Chevy Tahoe has 190k miles on it, and it's time to get a new car.
i'm looking into a 1997 or a 1999 Wrangler, automatic, around 80K miles.

tell me the ins and out of the Wrangler...either convince me or convince me NOT to buy.

I had a 1995 Wrangler (4 cyl + auto, no a/c), and it was possibly the most fun vehicle I've ever driven (that was in my financial reach, of course). The power wasn't too bad, gas mileage was ok (be sure you get the bigger gas tank), and nothing beats taking the doors and top off on a beautiful day.

Coming from a Tahoe, you'll notice a much stiffer ride and probably not as good overall quality. But I was never ever disappointed with my Wrangler. On road or off, it was a blast. Unfortunately, I never got to attend a Jeep Jamoree, but I've heard they're a blast too. If you can find a good one, get it--you won't regret it!

turboSPE

Randman · Jul 6, 2005, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Learn to read. I quoted myself for you.

"friend who had one"

I was emphasizing my earlier point. Don't listen to anyone who has never owned a Wrangler themselves. It would be like asking a virgin about sex.

turboSPE · Jul 6, 2005, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

I was emphasizing my earlier point. Don't listen to anyone who has never owned a Wrangler themselves. It would be like asking a virgin about sex.

There is not a more true statement.

turboSPE

budster101 · Jul 6, 2005, 11:45 PM

I think I'm now interested in a Wrangler...

KeyLimePi · Jul 7, 2005, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Randman

Now, on snow, the Jeep's a champ.

Last winter I pulled a neighbor's Cherokee out of the snow with my Xterra. She went off the macadam and had both passenger-side tires in about six inches of snow. Her husband told me he had to pull her out of a different spot a week later with their second car...a Mitsubish Eclipse. Obviously she's not much of driver, but still.

Randman · Jul 7, 2005, 01:09 AM

Cherokee and Wrangler far different beasts. Besides. a bad driver will negate any vehicle.

iLikebeer · Jul 7, 2005, 01:52 AM

No comparison. My parents had a Cherokee. We got over 2 feet of snow one night. The driveway hadn't been plowed yet, and they couldn't get more than 5 feet out of the garage. They woke me up and made me drive up and down the driveway in my Wrangler until it was packed enough for them to drive through.

I was up there for Xmas break last winter and we took my Jeep and a friend's brand new Xterra down an old road to do some shooting and snowboard pulling. He got stuck in a few feet of snow, and I pulled him out. He got stuck again where I pulled him out from a standstill. Everyone ended up piling on the jeep and leaving the Xterra behind to go the rest of the way.

The only car I've seen do better in the snow was a 1986ish subara station wagon with all wheel drive. The snow was a third of the way up the doors, but somehow that little bugger kept pushing.

Randman · Jul 7, 2005, 01:58 AM

If you can get one, a magnetic heater for the oil pan helps in very cold climates.

phantomdragonz · Jul 7, 2005, 02:25 AM

hardtop for rockslides? ahahah!!!!

I am sorry I am picking on the poster of that comment, but seriously.... have you ever taken a jeep off road???

as I said in my earlier post I have an 89 jeep wrangler with 4" of lift and 33" tires, I have a detroit diff locker in the rear axles and 4.56 gears all around, full roll cage and corbeau BAJA seats... My jeep is used offroad and primarily off road, except for the occasional mall crawling =D

now my comment about automatics, ca$h, you can just humor me here, this is not about acceleration or 1/4 times... this is about control offroad... anyways, MANY MANY off road buggies and jeeps alike are switching to autos... you know why? torque multiplication, yeah it can break axles in some situations, but overall an auto will give you more control offroad, believe it or not!

there are still some groups of people who prefer manuals vs autos, but when you are rock crawling with a manual you HAVE to slip the clutch A LOT, before I lowered the gears in my axles I had 3.07's or 3.55 (I am not sure, never took the time to count the teeth on the ring and pinion) anyways my point being that autos give less sudden shock to the drivetrain when you slip off a rock or when you run in to a rock that your tire has trouble going over... on the other hand, you can compression brake really well with a manual, but to each there own!

I am rambling I know, But thats because all of you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to the harder side off the offroad arena, I have done my research and I have built my jeep as money has allowed me, I do not know all, but if you really want to be swamped with info go to www.pirate4x4.com and be careful about joining the forums, they are a wild bunch over there... but the tech is awesome, and the rigs are amazing...

anyways, back on topic....

if you want a jeep to drive around as a normal SUV and to drive in snow with the weekend camping trip in the mountains then a wrangler is PERFECT, I could also recommend a cherokee or a grand cherokee, but thats a little too much soccer mom for me, they are still quite capable off-road as well...

I will say this again, drive around with no top and no doors and if you are not sold, then a jeep is not for you!

and just to wrap this up.... the soft top does perfectly fine in the cold weather, year the snow is heavy, the wind can be loud, but the new jeep wranglers have a new type of soft top on them made with what Jeep calls "sailcloth" and it is supposed to make it MUCH quieter, I have never ridden in one though...

but basically it comes down to the over used cliché.... it's a jeep thing, you wont understand....

ride in a jeep and if you do understand then buy one, of the noise bothers you or the somewhat rougher ride is not quite what you wanted then by all means DO NOT GET ONE!!!

but if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them and set the record straight...

Zach

and yes, that is my jeep in my sig...

iLikebeer · Jul 7, 2005, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by phantomdragonz

hardtop for rockslides? ahahah!!!!

I am sorry I am picking on the poster of that comment, but seriously.... have you ever taken a jeep off road???

Hey! That's not nice.

A hard top probably wouldn't do much, but if you're at the edge of a slide it could possibly help some. March of 98 I was driving from Breckinridge back to UT on I-70 at night just as a major storm was coming in. There was a rock slide near the Aspen exit about 15 cars ahead of me that crushed 1 car and damaged a few others. Having a hard top through mountains just gives me some pyschological comfort. I might have overstated that one a just a bit.

And yeah, I have a 2000 Wrangler with a 1" lift and 31" tires. It's my primary car and I hit the highways a lot so I didn't want to go any bigger. I live in the high country in Prescott, AZ. I'm not hardcore into rock crawling, but I get out on the trails here as often as I can. I try to get up to Sedona a few times a year and meet up with friends in Moab every 2-3 years.

KeyLimePi · 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

He got stuck again where I pulled him out from a standstill. Everyone ended up piling on the jeep and leaving the Xterra behind to go the rest of the way.

Did he have had a 4WD Xterra? I've had mine for nearly six years and it's plowed through snow that was up over my fenders.

Well...back on topic. What's up with this whole "Trail Rated" thing that Jeep uses? Is that real or just some self-imposed certification Jeep uses to sell cars. It's almost as bad as the "It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand" sticker.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by KeyLimePi

Well...back on topic. What's up with this whole "Trail Rated" thing that Jeep uses? Is that real or just some self-imposed certification Jeep uses to sell cars.

It means that the particular model in question has successfully negotiated the Rubicon Trail in Cali.

Anyways... To the OP. Don't get a Wrangler - the short wheelbase makes them suck on-road - get a used XJ. Stick some Rancho 9000s (setting 4 is a sweet setting), some 235/75 Pirelli Scorpions and some ARBs on it. Good off-road, good in the snow and handles well on-road if you learn how to drive it properly.
Oh, and make sure it's a manual. Though if it's not it's a relatively easy thing to swap the tranny out and pop a hole in the bulkhead.
If you're worried about mileage, grab a VM TDi engine for it - runs more torque than the 4.0 six and still returns better than a Ford Focus.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 7, 2005, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

And yeah, I have a 2000 Wrangler with a 1" lift and 31" tires. It's my primary car and I hit the highways a lot so

SUV drivers are hilarious.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 09:30 AM

I take it that "suvsr4terrorists" is Ca$h's new account these days then?

phantomdragonz · Jul 7, 2005, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

SUV drivers are hilarious.

ca$h you like "fast" cars, some people have different interests in cars... deal with it!

what ever happened to you staying away from the lounge, I really preferred it when you were not here to flame EVERYONE!

Zach

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 7, 2005, 03:31 PM

I don't mind different tastes...but the thing is, you shouldn't be driving a gas guzzling top heavy rigid framed SUV to and from work. Keep them where they belong: OFFROAD, and get a car for commuting and groceries. You're ruining the earth, wasting resources, and you're endangering yourself and others on the road. If you have an SUV and you actually use it OFF ROAD and that's about the only place you use it, PROPS TO YOU for choosing a vehicle suited to your needs. But for commuting, an SUV is about the worst possible choice for a vehicle suited to the job.

Randman · Jul 7, 2005, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

You're ruining the earth, wasting resources, and you're endangering yourself and others on the road.

Nonsense.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 7, 2005, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

Nonsense.

Oh really? READ THIS.

If you're too poor to buy a copy, I'll send you one. PM me your address.

budster101 · Jul 7, 2005, 03:43 PM

Not the old, PM me your address scenario...

Randman · Jul 7, 2005, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Oh really? READ THIS.

If you're too poor to buy a copy, I'll send you one. PM me your address.

Thanks. I've already read quite a bit on them. I prefer Gregg Easterbrook's take on them.

http://slate.msn.com/id/30728/

http://www.nationalreview.com/adler/adler012003.asp

But a Wrangler isn't any more "unsafe" or dangerous than any other vehicle on the road. My own feeling is that the Earth is more than capable of enduring a couple of hundred years of us burning dinosaur bones. Besides, a Wrangler isn't a resource hog like many other SUVs. And, in some situations, it can be a better vehicle for commuting than a sedan.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 7, 2005, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

Thanks. I've already read quite a bit on them. I prefer Gregg Easterbrook's take on them.

http://slate.msn.com/id/30728/

http://www.nationalreview.com/adler/adler012003.asp

But a Wrangler isn't any more "unsafe" or dangerous than any other vehicle on the road. My own feeling is that the Earth is more than capable of enduring a couple of hundred years of us burning dinosaur bones. Besides, a Wrangler isn't a resource hog like many other SUVs. And, in some situations, it can be a better vehicle for commuting than a sedan.

So you've read a website...but not a book... and that's enough for you... and you still think a wrangler is just as safe as a car. Please don't reproduce. How could it ever be a better commuter than a sedan?

Randman · Jul 7, 2005, 03:52 PM

Yes, I think a Wrangler can be as safe as a car. Why? Because I owned a Jeep Wrangler. Personal experience.

In intemperate climates, it can be a godsend. And no air-con means no freon being leaked.

budster101 · Jul 7, 2005, 03:56 PM

Now it's ok to talk about safety eh?

http://www.safercar.gov/Index2.cfm
(From this link)
http://www.safercar.gov/NCAP/Cars/3281.html

Go there and do more lookups on safety, not your book. If you are going to quote from that book, the give the author some credit ok?

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 7, 2005, 03:59 PM

Impact ratings don't mean a whole lot, considering all the testing is so outdated. Read the book. It explains how SUVs have grown to basically 'win' the impact ratings while being more dangerous in the real world.

budster101 · Jul 7, 2005, 04:02 PM

Your author sounds like a real zealot wacko. Do you pray to him?

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 7, 2005, 04:05 PM

He ISN'T a zealot though. He has a lot of praise for Jeep Cherokees, Ford's attempt to make their SUVs a lot safer by incorporating really cheap (from a manufactering standpoint) changes to their designs which ups their safety to themselves and OTHER VEHICLES. Read the book. It's rational, reasonable, and logical, not some hippie screaming that the sky is falling and we'll run out of oil in 5 years. The fact that you think that only shows how ignorant you are. You want a copy? PM me your address.

budster101 · Jul 7, 2005, 04:13 PM

You are him, aren't you?
His publisher?
Just a 'fan' eh?

How many copies you got?
No freaking way I give you my address....

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 7, 2005, 04:20 PM

I don't have any copies. I've already sent one reader on these forums a used copy from amazon, it cost me under three dollars. Once he's done reading it, I can have him send it to you, if you want. And no, I don't know hte guy or own stock or whatever stupid accusation you'll come up with next, it's just COLD HARD FACTUAL information that makes me pissed off at all the ignorant sons of bitches who drive around in their huge SUVs without a second thought about it.

budster101 · Jul 7, 2005, 04:22 PM

I love it.

iLikebeer · Jul 7, 2005, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

So you've read a website...but not a book... and that's enough for you... and you still think a wrangler is just as safe as a car. Please don't reproduce. How could it ever be a better commuter than a sedan?

Why are you talking about SUV's in this thread? I wouldn't consider a Wrangler a typical SUV. It has a much smaller footprint and weight than the huge Expeditions and Suburbans. I remember a thread about jeeps when you were still ca$h68, where you were going on and on about how great jeeps were and SUV's sucked. Why the reversal?

And anecdotal jeep safety evidence that means absolutely nothing: I had an offset? head-on collision with a Toyota station wagon with a combined speed of about 50mph about 5 years ago. The jeep was still running, but the radiator was busted and the front grill got dented in a little bit. Between the deer he hit and the accident, his car was totalled. Neither of us was injured. I still haven't figured out why my air bag didn't go off.

It can be a better commuter because it's more fun to drive and you're not stuck inside a cocoon when traffic slows down. That argument is just personal preference.

Zimphire · Jul 7, 2005, 06:55 PM

Jeeps are really nice.

Nothing like them.

I had one the last time I went to DC.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 8, 2005, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Why are you talking about SUV's in this thread? I wouldn't consider a Wrangler a typical SUV. It has a much smaller footprint and weight than the huge Expeditions and Suburbans. I remember a thread about jeeps when you were still ca$h68, where you were going on and on about how great jeeps were and SUV's sucked. Why the reversal?

It isn't a reversal. If you need to go offroad, get a jeep. They're great at that. If you're commuting on the highway, DON"T GET ONE. They suck for on road use.

And anecdotal jeep safety evidence that means absolutely nothing: I had an offset? head-on collision with a Toyota station wagon with a combined speed of about 50mph about 5 years ago. The jeep was still running, but the radiator was busted and the front grill got dented in a little bit. Between the deer he hit and the accident, his car was totalled.

.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly the point. The toyota absorbed more energy than the jeep. You're safer in a toyota station wagon than a rigid Jeep.

iLikebeer · Jul 8, 2005, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

It isn't a reversal. If you need to go offroad, get a jeep. They're great at that. If you're commuting on the highway, DON"T GET ONE. They suck for on road use.

Sorry, but driving cross country with the top and doors off is one of the funnest uses of a jeep. Road trips are much more fun, because you're in no hurry and enjoy the drive more.

That's exactly the point. The toyota absorbed more energy than the jeep. You're safer in a toyota station wagon than a rigid Jeep.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. His car was possibly already weakened from hitting the deer too though. But I'd trade the extra safety of a typical low sitting car for a better view of the road any day. In 11 years of driving, that was my only accident, and being able to see the idiots before they do something stupid is a large part of that. If there hadn't been guard rails, I could have gotten out of the way. I saw the deer and stomped the brakes before the other guy hit it, I just had nowhere to go.

Randman · Jul 8, 2005, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

It isn't a reversal. If you need to go offroad, get a jeep. They're great at that. If you're commuting on the highway, DON"T GET ONE. They suck for on road use.

Not sure what that means but the Jeep is a decent on-road option.

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Why are you talking about SUV's in this thread? I wouldn't consider a Wrangler a typical SUV. It has a much smaller footprint and weight than the huge Expeditions and Suburbans.

True. A Hummer it's not.

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Sorry, but driving cross country with the top and doors off is one of the funnest uses of a jeep. Road trips are much more fun, because you're in no hurry and enjoy the drive more.

Just remember the sun screen.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 8, 2005, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Sorry, but driving cross country with the top and doors off is one of the funnest uses of a jeep. Road trips are much more fun, because you're in no hurry and enjoy the drive more.

Funnest isn't a word. Anyway, they might be fun with the top down, but they're noisy and they ride and handle like crap. To me that makes a bad road car.

Randman · Jul 8, 2005, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Funnest isn't a word. Anyway, they might be fun with the top down, but they're noisy and they ride and handle like crap. To me that makes a bad road car.

You haven't owned one.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 8, 2005, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

You haven't owned one.

So what? I've been in quite a few. I've had enough experience that I say that I'd buy one if I lived in Colorado or something for getting around the back country.... but I also know that it'd be really stupid if I bought one NOW where I spent 99.999% of my time on the road. They were NOT designed to be road vehicles. Period.

Randman · Jul 8, 2005, 12:31 PM

They are designed to be road vehicles. And being in one and owning one is the same as knowing a girl and actually having kissed her. Not comparable.

I've been in airplanes but I don't know what it's like owning one. I've ridden on motorcycles but don't know what it's like owning one.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 8, 2005, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

They are designed to be road vehicles. And being in one and owning one is the same as knowing a girl and actually having kissed her. Not comparable.

I've been in airplanes but I don't know what it's like owning one. I've ridden on motorcycles but don't know what it's like owning one.

If you've been in an airplane you know enough about it to realize that it isn't the best choice for traveling underwater.

If you've been on a motorcycle you realize it isn't hte best transportation for a snow storm.

I've been in a jeep. Quite a bit. The suspension makes the thing have an awful ride that transmits jolts to your body while at the same time making it handle like crap. At highway speeds, it's retardedly loud.

It was designed to go OFF THE ROAD very well, and still be street legal. It was not designed as a commuter vehicle to travel on the highway at high speeds. Just because it CAN doesn't mean that it's good at it.

Randman · Jul 8, 2005, 01:06 PM

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Some guys like blondes, some guys like redheads. Some guys like guys. To each their own.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 8, 2005, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Some guys like blondes, some guys like redheads. Some guys like guys. To each their own.

And some people think overly noisy awful riding/handling vehicles are good for highway use. >shrug<

Fair enough I guess.

Randman · Jul 8, 2005, 01:12 PM

The rough ride is half the fun of a Jeep. It's a throwback. The wind noise, the rattle, the bumps. The zipping down the window at the drive-thru.

Besides, once you drop the top, all is forgiven. Gee, this thread is making me want one again.

Sherwin · Jul 8, 2005, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

The rough ride is half the fun of a Jeep.

Especially when your passenger is *cough*well built*cough*.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 8, 2005, 02:43 PM

Never thought of that aspect before. Heh.

nickw311 · Jul 8, 2005, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by MacMan4000

I love my Jeep... but its not a wrangler.

Click for massive version

I have a Grand Cherokee that looks a lot like that and I also absolutely love it. Heated leather seats, great sound system, perfect ride, TERRIBLE gas mileage with the V8 and full time 4WD.

I couldn't really ask for two better cars

Paco500 · Jul 8, 2005, 07:44 PM

Here is my take.

I have never owned a Wrangler, but have owned two Wrangler-like vehicles. A 77' Toyota FJ-40 and a '74 IH Scout. The Scout is bigger than a Wrangler but mine had no top and no doors so there is the similarity.

The majority of Wrangler owners can be split in to 3 categories. 1. Off-road fanatics that love them for their rock-chewing prowess. 2. Those that buy them for the fun and image (frat boys and chicks are the majority here) and love them. 3. Those that buy them for the fun and image and realize how difficult they can be to own and drive and begin to hate them. I loved both mine for a while. I was living at the beach in NC and did a lot of sand driving in the Scout, and the FJ-40 was given to me and I kept in in No. VA- never took it seriously off road. They were both fun but the reality was, they made me tired to drive. I know the comfort of a new Jeep is better than either of these, but not much. Compared to your Tahoe, you are going to be disappointed in the ride. They are fun, but not as practical as a car. You may end up being in one of the first two categories and be wildly happy, but my bet is you will fall into the third.

As a side note- the manual will have slightly better performance and gas milage on road and me much better for SERIOUS off road, but an auto is better in the sand and in the snow (when you engage the clutch, you lose a bit of traction- some will argue, but they are wrong), and for tooling around on dirt roads at camp, it will be about the same. If this is more of an on-road car, I'd get the auto. In CT, you are probably going to be spending a lot of time in traffic and that clutch leg is going to get tired. This coming from a manual driver who curses his choice almost daily in DC area traffic.

Paco500 · Jul 8, 2005, 07:48 PM

As a side-note- I'm one of those that could be labeled an anti-suv nazi but I may have to eat some crow and turn major hypocrite based on this thing. I love the look (call me crazy). I'll definitely have to give it a look when it comes out.

That makes me a bad person, doesn't it?