[Forte]

Hey there. I've been lurking around for a little while, but finally decided to register. Nice community you've got here.

I'm planning to switch to a Mac after many years of using Wintel machines (since 1994/95 or so). I'm a patient type, but I've finally gotten tired of spending more time securing and maintaining my computer than actually doing stuff with it (or finding that it can't do stuff I want it to very well, or at all), and I'm sick of spending a ton of money for a new machine every year or two - they just don't last, and are very often absolute overkill for what I need. That's poor value, IMVHO.

The machine I've decided on - and tried out many times, now - is an iBook G4 (the 933MHz model).
However, that's obviously just in a retail setting, and I'd like to learn more about how that iBook performs day-to-day with the standard configuration, as I won't be able to get any extra RAM or anything for it for a while. Can anyone give any answers to that, please?

[Big Mac]

I wish I could give you a more detailed answer, but I've got pressing priorities at the moment. The only thing I can say is that OS X definitely runs faster with more RAM. The base amount Apple provides is only adequate, so it's important to upgrade. Whatever you do, don't make the mistake of paying Apple's obscene prices for it - go to ramseeker.com instead.

[wataru]

If you do anything more intensive than surfing the internet, you need more RAM. That's really all I can say without knowing more about what you intend to do with it.

[d4nth3m4n]

get sidetrack. especially if you dont have a mouse. itll save you a lot of trackpad time.
past that, learn key commands and things like that to speed up your interface. have i mentioned that i dont like trackpads?

[Forte]

Whatever you do, don't make the mistake of paying Apple's obscene prices for it - go to ramseeker.com instead.

Duly noted. How come Apple's prices are regarded as 'obscene', though? (Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question, I just would have thought RAM prices would be comparable, regardless of who you buy from...)

If you do anything more intensive than surfing the internet, you need more RAM. That's really all I can say without knowing more about what you intend to do with it.

Hmmn... Well, using most of the bundled apps is a given. Aside from that;

Internet-type stuff
Writing
Desktop publishing (Quark Express, most likely)
Photoshop Elements 2.0
Some occasional gaming (e.g., Halo, but I'm not over-concerned about having it running looking uber-pretty, though), and emulation of some older games I own but am no longer able to use due to the consoles reaching the end of their service lives

get sidetrack. especially if you dont have a mouse. itll save you a lot of trackpad time.
past that, learn key commands and things like that to speed up your interface. have i mentioned that i dont like trackpads?

Oh good lord, trackpads are the bane of my life. I absolutely DETEST the things. I'm a laptop user (I hate desktop machines, and space is at a premium) but the one thing I hate about most modern laptops is the trackpads - I wish they still gave options like the TrackPoint devices on the earlier Toshiba Satellite models, but noooooo. So, I do have a mouse handy already. Thanks for the link, though - I'll keep that handy in case I have any mouse problems, or forget to take it with me when I'm on the move.
As for key-commands, those will probably be the first thing I start getting to grips with.

Thanks very much for the replies so far.

[divermac]

I've also recently changed over to the G4 933. What I have noticed is:
Great battery life, excellent when on the move (long haul flights etc)
Sleep facility works a dream
Standard RAM works OK for single tasks but begins to struggle for multiple tasks or 'hungry' tasks. Photo editing becomes a bit slow for example.
I've just sent off for 512Mb of crucial RAM ($100)after 3 months of working with standard amount.
Apple works is least useful app that comes bundled with the notebook. I've gone for the educational office package which is much better and fully compatible with PCs.
The other apps work great. You'll love them compared to windows.
Overall though, a brilliant machine and I'll not be going back to windows!

[wataru]

Don't even think of playing Halo with only 256MB RAM. OS X eats up a lot of that number itself, and other apps further decrease that amount. When you fill up your RAM (and you will, trust me) your computer then has to copy the unused contents of the RAM to the hard drive (called "paging out") at the same time as it's loading whatever new app you want to use. This results in big slowdown on any machine, but even more so on laptops because their hard drives are especially slow (4200 or 5400RPM?).

When I bought my 800MHz iBook G4, Apple's 512MB pieces were only $35 more than Crucial's (after education discount). In retrospect, I should have payed the extra $35 because my iBook turned out to have a problem with the high-density pieces that Crucial is sure to give you first. After being sent the wrong replacement part and then having the correct part misdelivered, I wished I had gotten Apple's RAM just to save myself all that trouble. Your machine may not have a problem with high-density RAM, though, and the price difference is surely more without education discounts, so YMMV.

[cryon]

Are you able to run halo on an 800 G4?.... smoothly?

[Forte]

Originally posted by wataru:
Don't even think of playing Halo with only 256MB RAM. OS X eats up a lot of that number itself, and other apps further decrease that amount.

But isn't Halo's minimum requirement below that of the 933MHz iBook G4's specs?
*Confused* I mean, is it just not possible to run it at all? I'm really not interested in having it looking all spangly - I care more about gameplay and story than I do about graphics.

Is there anything else that'd be worth knowing in advance about the day-to-day operating of an iBook with the base specifications?

[wataru]

You can probably run Halo with only 256MB, but it will not only be ugly, but it will probably be slow and stuttery to the point of being unplayable, depending on where you are, how many enemies are on screen, etc.

Let me put it this way: I found 256MB to be woefully inadequate for what I do, and I don't play games at all. I don't do heavy graphics work. I don't do 3D rendering. And so on. In my opinion, 256MB should be the minimum requirement for OS X itself.

[iREZ]

I play Halo on my PB at all low settings and it barely gets the job done. You need atleast 512MB to run Halo or else its just going to look like the slow motion scene from "Swingers" and nobody likes that in a video game.

[Forte]

Ah, thanks for clarifying that. I guess I'll hold off on Halo until I'm able to get the extra RAM, then. ^^;

[mac-kerouac]

Welcome!

If you are a newbie and looking for some shortcuts, hints and tricks try this book:

"Mac OS X KillerTips" by: Scott Kelby
isbn 0-7357-1393-6.

I'm a long time mac user who has never picked up many tricks and such. I've found this book a good resource for learing what I've missed through the years.

I picked up the book at an Apple store in NJ. I looked for it on amazon and didn't find it. Look around for it, it is good.

[Forte]

Originally posted by mac-kerouac:
If you are a newbie and looking for some shortcuts, hints and tricks try this book:

"Mac OS X KillerTips" by: Scott Kelby
isbn 0-7357-1393-6.

Oh, cool. Thankyou very much! I'll be sure to pick that up.

[Chimpmaster]

I would configure that ibook (and yes the 933mhz is definitely one of the best value bang for buck macs out there right now) with at least 384MB ram.

It wont cost you much extra at all to upgrade from 256 to 384, and you will notice the difference in panther running multiple apps.

I currently run panther on a 700Mhz G4 Imac with 384MB ram and it runs really well. I dont find myself needing more memory at all, and I will often have safari, word, excel, powerpoint, omnigraffle (like visio), mail, photoshop, itunes and stuffit deluxe open and running at once.

I also have a g3 366mhz ibook with 320MB of RAM and it also runs panther surpisingly well.

256MB is the bare minimum, and youll get by fine with it, but I strongly suggest as much memory as you can afford especially if you are a power user.

For the record, its easy to self install RAM into an ibook and you can pick it up very cheaply from various online retailers (quite often half what apple asks for it).

[jokell82]

Don't even bother with Apple's 384mb option. Apple charges out the ass for RAM. $50 for an upgrade from a 128 meg stick to a 256 meg stick is still a little much. Ramseeker lists a 512mb stick for $86. Go with the bare minimum on the Apple memory and add the rest yourself. You'll be glad you did.

[Forte]

256MB is the bare minimum, and youll get by fine with it, but I strongly suggest as much memory as you can afford especially if you are a power user.

I can't afford *ANY* extra RAM at the time of purchase, or for what will likely be a significant period of time afterwards.

Go with the bare minimum on the Apple memory and add the rest yourself.

That's what I've been planning to do all along, but it'll take a while.

--

That's kind of why I asked how the unit will perform daily with just the base specs. (IIRC, I mentioned in another post what I would be doing most days. ^^;; )

--

For the record, its easy to self install RAM into an ibook and you can pick it up very cheaply from various online retailers (quite often half what apple asks for it).

How easy is it, seriously? I'm fairly tech-competent, but sometimes a little clumsy as I have this tendency to panic about making mistakes when working on/with the insides of computers, and that makes it difficult to keep a steady hand sometimes. It'd have to be really easy for me to manage it easily.

[Forte]

Sorry to post twice in a row, but another question came to my mind last night.

Is the 256MB RAM that comes as standard in the 933MHz iBook 'adequate' in the same way that the 256MB RAM that's standard in many Windows XP laptops is 'adequate'?
(I know that sounds kind of an odd question to ask, but I know Macs are more efficient and stuff)

I ask, because I'm used to that kind of 'adequate' already. ^^;;

[ou_bobcat]

I is enough to get the job done. I have a 800MHz iBook. I typically run iTunes, Safari, Posioned, Folding, and Office apps. Usually at least three at a time. I occationally get a beachball opening a new program or coming back from sleep but I wouldnt worry to much about it. It is not enough to make you regret the purchase.

[Rewes]

Originally posted by Forte:
Sorry to post twice in a row, but another question came to my mind last night.

Is the 256MB RAM that comes as standard in the 933MHz iBook 'adequate' in the same way that the 256MB RAM that's standard in many Windows XP laptops is 'adequate'?

Yes. You can run your iBook perfectly fine with just 256mb of memory. More is always better, but for basic use 256mb is enough.

[wataru]

Since people seem to be asking the same questions over and over without reading the whole thread:

Originally posted by wataru:
Let me put it this way: I found 256MB to be woefully inadequate for what I do, and I don't play games at all. I don't do heavy graphics work. I don't do 3D rendering. And so on. In my opinion, 256MB should be the minimum requirement for OS X itself.

[Chimpmaster]

1) 256MB will get you by in the same way that it would get you by in windows xp. Its fine for basic processing work such as word and browsing. Even games etc.

Multitasking will bea bit of a problem because OSX does this very well but is memory hungry. Purchase with the minimum ram and upgrade when you can afford it.

2) Self install is SO easy man. You just shut the ibook down, click open the keyboard, disconnect the airport card (if you have one) and there is only one slot visible other than thr airport card slot - and thats for your memory expansion!. You just push on it gently and then down until it clicks it.

Your ibook will come with simple step by step instructions for doing this yourself. And it doesnt void your warranty. If you are really concerned go to an applestore and get them to do it for you, but I for one have found it very simply. Once clicked in and installed, replace the airport card, click the keyboard back into place, and switch the machine on. Thats all you have to do!

By the way, the instruction can be viewed at the following url.

http://www.info.apple.com/usen/cip/p...4-mem-cip1.pdf

And here is some general info on user upgradeable components of the ibook.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=26277

Have fun!

[Forte]

1) 256MB will get you by in the same way that it would get you by in windows xp. Its fine for basic processing work such as word and browsing. Even games etc.

Multitasking will bea bit of a problem because OSX does this very well but is memory hungry. Purchase with the minimum ram and upgrade when you can afford it.

Ah, great. That was what I was hoping for. I'd gotten the impression it would be intolerably bad with the base RAM, but evidently it's not - I can tolerate Windows XP in that way, so I'm sure I'll do fine. ^^;

2) Self install is SO easy man. You just shut the ibook down, click open the keyboard, disconnect the airport card (if you have one) and there is only one slot visible other than thr airport card slot - and thats for your memory expansion!. You just push on it gently and then down until it clicks it.

Your ibook will come with simple step by step instructions for doing this yourself. And it doesnt void your warranty. If you are really concerned go to an applestore and get them to do it for you, but I for one have found it very simply. Once clicked in and installed, replace the airport card, click the keyboard back into place, and switch the machine on. Thats all you have to do!

By the way, the instruction can be viewed at the following url.

http://www.info.apple.com/usen/cip/p...4-mem-cip1.pdf

And here is some general info on user upgradeable components of the ibook.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=26277

Have fun!

Oh, thankyou. I guess that does sound pretty easy... ^^ I'll go give those instructions and stuff a read, too.

[real]

Hello

All we are saying is when you can get more ram do thats all. Most of us here at Macnn are power users(I might be wrong) and want/need all the ram we can get. I know that the first thing I do is order ram for a new Mac, as mucha s I can afford.

Welcome to the Mac Enjoy.

real

[Forte]

Thanks. ^^;;

Another question occurred to me today, reading the Buyer's Guide on MacRumors.com. I was planning on purchasing my iBook in a couple of months' time, but it's suggested to wait as it's getting near to the end of a product cycle. Should I hold off a little while longer? (I'm not sure if I should or not - will I get more for my money if I do?)