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ashtoash · Feb 23, 2005, 04:37 PM

I can't justify $500 a year on Apple Developer select account, and currently just use the free one. I've been "learning" (a horribly slow process)cocoa programming and xcode. I've seen some really cool stuff with Tiger and would like to have access to start developing my application idea in tiger. I'm willing to donate to you $100 (paypal?) one of your extra seedkeys (select members generally get 5).

I understand by allowing me to have a seed key you take on the additional responsibility that I will not "leak" tiger builds or otherwise apple trade secrets. I'm willing to photocopy ID or some form that makes you feel comfortable.

Any developers willing to give me a chance to work with the latest and greatest?

Thanks.

arekkusu · Feb 23, 2005, 05:11 PM

This is specifically not allowed by the terms of the ADC NDA. You can only transfer your seed keys to employees/contractors working for the same entity.

ashtoash · Feb 23, 2005, 05:32 PM

Yeah I'm aware of the ADC specific "terms". If it's an issue of that I'll buy 1 share of the company offering the key or sign a contractor agreement. Apple has specifically turned it's "eyes" from this type of use. The ADC agreement wasn't even modified I believe until sometime last year to include this. The idea behind this term is to keep it from being a free-for-all everybody has a copy to "play" with advanced Apple software. Of the 9 or so people (all developers) I know sharing seed keys none of them work for the same company.

"Work" on the same project at the same company isn't an issue. I'll gladly use a "shell" LLC I have with my name on it (used for nothing thus far) and add somebody's name on it and create a line of code on the same file to fulfill all legal obligations.

Apple is not losing any business (either way I won't be buying a select account), and with tiger I'll be able to possibly release a great idea (in my opinion) I have using coreimage and other advanced tiger technologies in time for the release date.

If people aren't willing to share their ADC key, I might go the route of asking 5 people to go in on an ADC select membership. Which of course we will all sign on the same LLC.

Everything I'm trying to do here will strengthen the Apple brand or contribute to the platform, and will not be used to take away from it.

Partisan01 · Feb 25, 2005, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by ashtoash:
Yeah I'm aware of the ADC specific "terms". If it's an issue of that I'll buy 1 share of the company offering the key or sign a contractor agreement. Apple has specifically turned it's "eyes" from this type of use. The ADC agreement wasn't even modified I believe until sometime last year to include this. The idea behind this term is to keep it from being a free-for-all everybody has a copy to "play" with advanced Apple software. Of the 9 or so people (all developers) I know sharing seed keys none of them work for the same company.

"Work" on the same project at the same company isn't an issue. I'll gladly use a "shell" LLC I have with my name on it (used for nothing thus far) and add somebody's name on it and create a line of code on the same file to fulfill all legal obligations.

Apple is not losing any business (either way I won't be buying a select account), and with tiger I'll be able to possibly release a great idea (in my opinion) I have using coreimage and other advanced tiger technologies in time for the release date.

If people aren't willing to share their ADC key, I might go the route of asking 5 people to go in on an ADC select membership. Which of course we will all sign on the same LLC.

Everything I'm trying to do here will strengthen the Apple brand or contribute to the platform, and will not be used to take away from it.

YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY.....

If you have such a great idea spending $500 is a very small business expense. Even if you're doing shareware you only need to sell 100 $5 copies to make your money back. If your program is marginally successful this should be easy.

If you have an LLC and are serious about doing software development for a profit I would recommend you visit a bank and get a business loan, then you wouldn't have to solicite anyone into breaking an agreement they might have signed with Apple.

ashtoash · Feb 25, 2005, 02:38 PM

Partisan:

I currently have another business that makes money. Right now learning cocoa is just a "hobby" and I'm trying to kick around and see if I can learn coreimage and make it do what I want. I don't have a problem getting $500 together. I can swipe that amount on a weekend, it's just I still can't justify spending $500 for something that may turn to out to be a project I don't follow through on. It's pretty depending on coreimage/corevideo two technologies I need to dive into to decide if I'm good enough to "hack it". As for the LLC's I have quite a few limited liabilty companies that I use for projects and tax/business purposes. I'm not starting a new company based around my software idea until i can play with coreimage/corevideo and decided if it's a viable platform for development with these tools.

That said your thoughts are appreciated.

Originally posted by Partisan01:
YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY.....

If you have such a great idea spending $500 is a very small business expense. Even if you're doing shareware you only need to sell 100 $5 copies to make your money back. If your program is marginally successful this should be easy.

If you have an LLC and are serious about doing software development for a profit I would recommend you visit a bank and get a business loan, then you wouldn't have to solicite anyone into breaking an agreement they might have signed with Apple.

wadesworld · Feb 25, 2005, 09:12 PM

If you spend the $500, you get more than just the OS. You also get 2 tech support incidents and a hardware discount.

Wade

Angus_D · Feb 26, 2005, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by ashtoash:
Right now learning cocoa is just a "hobby" and I'm trying to kick around and see if I can learn coreimage and make it do what I want.

If it's a "hobby" then you can probably afford to wait, no?

Ω · Feb 26, 2005, 07:59 AM

And can also get $500 together in a weekend.....

Internet begging....

Angus_D · Feb 26, 2005, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by wadesworld:
If you spend the $500, you get more than just the OS. You also get 2 tech support incidents and a hardware discount.

And monthly mailings, access to the ADC Compatibility Labs, and other discounts on third party stuff.

OpenStep · Feb 26, 2005, 11:38 AM

Just to let you know, if you currently have the student developer membership you aren't allowed to have an ADC Seed key. If you transfer one to a student membership Apple will transfer it back because it is against the terms.

Angus_D · Feb 26, 2005, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by OpenStep:
Just to let you know, if you currently have the student developer membership you aren't allowed to have an ADC Seed key. If you transfer one to a student membership Apple will transfer it back because it is against the terms.

It's not against the terms, though. Are you sure you're not allowed if you're legally an employee/contractor of the persons giving you a seed key?

Samad · Feb 26, 2005, 04:43 PM

It really depends on your view of corporate law. If you think legal, corporate contracts have ethical value, then you shouldn't try to get out of paying $500.

ashtoash · Feb 27, 2005, 08:10 PM

I just bought access on my credit card, hopefully it's money well spent. Am I supposed to be able to download the latest seed right after I enter the credit card info? I just returned me to the developer center. Do I have to fax in an agreement or something?

arekkusu · Feb 27, 2005, 10:40 PM

You may need to wait for the next seed. But, that shouldn't be too long

Don't forget that your account comes with a hardware discount, which can be worth more than $500 if you buy a high end machine. So if you upgrade your dev system sometime in the next year the account pays for itself.

ashtoash · Feb 28, 2005, 01:16 PM

Yeah I'll use the discount towards a new powerbook after I attend WWDC. Thanks.

Originally posted by arekkusu:
You may need to wait for the next seed. But, that shouldn't be too long

Don't forget that your account comes with a hardware discount, which can be worth more than $500 if you buy a high end machine. So if you upgrade your dev system sometime in the next year the account pays for itself.