[hyteckit]

Seriously. vmarks can't make rational moderator decisions and is blinded by the conservative leaning views.

He allows conservative to personally bash me, by calling me an @ss and half-intelligent or not smart enough to read. Yet he bans me for saying Captain Obvious is whiny, because it was a personal attack.

Now I get an infraction by vmarks for pointing out RAILhead's hypocrisy on regulations and oversight. That's also a personal attack.

No wonder why this forum has gone down the tubes.

Hey vmarks, why don't you just permanently ban me cause you are hurt by my opposing views. Did I hurt your feelings by disagreeing with you? Maybe I need to handle you with gloves in the political forum by not disagreeing with you too much or call others out on their hypocrisy?

Yes, I know you are doing this infraction thingy to incite me to post something that will get me permenantly banned. Go ahead vmarks. I'm sick of your crap anyway, vmarks.

[Railroader]

[brassplayersrock²]

Anyone know of a good skin thickener?

[Simon]

I must say it's surprising that only people considering themselves liberal complain about vmarks. A sign of fair moderation is usually that everybody complains.

That said, the problem could be solved on the spot if the Lounge were just deleted altogether. Should have happened ages ago IMHO.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Seriously. vmarks can't make rational moderator decisions and is blinded by the conservative leaning views.

He allows conservative to personally bash me, by calling me an @ss and half-intelligent or not smart enough to read. Yet he bans me for saying Captain Obvious is whiny, because it was a personal attack.

Now I get an infraction by vmarks for pointing out RAILhead's hypocrisy on regulations and oversight. That's also a personal attack.

No wonder why this forum has gone down the tubes.

Agreed.

[Big Mac]

Another winner of a thread by hyteckit. Quick, he's imploding!

But if you loons ever do succeed in silencing vmarks, I'll bail out of the forums in protest. That's more incentive for you to try to target him, I suppose. Wait a second, hyteckit, are you being racist here by targeting vmarks? Hey, what's good for the goose, right?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I must say it's surprising that only people considering themselves liberal complain about vmarks. A sign of fair moderation is usually that everybody complains.

Well, it's only libs complaining about vmarks because the conservatives here generally aren't a bunch of cry-baby pansies. I've had plenty of infractions given to me by vmarks over the years but you don't read about it here in feedback because I take it like a man.

That's the difference.

Originally Posted by Simon 

That said, the problem could be solved on the spot if the Lounge were just deleted altogether. Should have happened ages ago IMHO.

So, you want us to talk crap about boobies/bands/politics/pets/cars/whatever in the OS forum?

[residentEvil]

OS = Other S hit?

works for me!

[Laminar]

Oh, another one of these threads, huh. Cool.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well, it's only libs complaining about vmarks because the conservatives here generally aren't a bunch of cry-baby pansies. I've had plenty of infractions given to me by vmarks over the years but you don't read about it here in feedback because I take it like a man.

Right. Because liberals are bad people ("cry-baby pansies") and conservatives are good people ("take it like men"). How could I have forgotten that the world is so simple?

So, you want us to talk crap about boobies/bands/politics/pets/cars/whatever in the OS forum?

Not at all. Actually I don't want to see the "crap" in the first place. I want MacNN Forums to be about the Mac (and related tech). I don't want to see politics, personal drama, and all the other social baloney on a tech board. Get your love at home. Not on the internet.

If it were up to me I'd shut down the Lounge and ban each and every member dragging OT politics into tech discussions. The best part of such a move would be that half the idiots here would leave immediately. Sure we'd have less posts and less posters, but also a whole lot less assholes.

[OreoCookie]

@everyone
Please calm down. Calling others racists, loons or cry babies is not going to end in a productive discussion.

@hyteckit
If you have specific problems, please take it to one of the admins. We'll listen.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Right. Because liberals are bad people ("cry-baby pansies") and conservatives are good people ("take it like men"). How could I have forgotten that the world is so simple?

No. The simple fact of the matter is that everyone gets infractions. But I only seem to see the libs whining about them and accusing vmarks of bias.

I've had infractions off vmarks (my side of the fence). I've had infractions off Oreo (opposite side of the fence). Instead of whining about these infractions, I take it on the chin because both these mods are fair unbiased guys.
I suppose that to even things up I should start a thread in feedback about "teh lirbul bias mods!" every time Oreo gives me an infraction, eh?

Originally Posted by Simon 

Not at all. Actually I don't want to see the "crap" in the first place.

Well don't go into the lounge then.
Or ask a mod to ban you from it if you haven't the willpower to do it by yourself.

Originally Posted by Simon 

I want MacNN Forums to be about the Mac (and related tech). I don't want to see politics, personal drama, and all the other social baloney on a tech board. Get your love at home. Not on the internet.

If it were up to me I'd shut down the Lounge and ban each and every member dragging OT politics into tech discussions. The best part of such a move would be that half the idiots here would leave immediately. Sure we'd have less posts and less posters, but also a whole lot less assholes.

It's a forum for Macs. Macs, by their very nature, don't go wrong very often so generate less tech issues than a windoze box.
In order to keep the talent (i.e. the people who can help you with your problems when you have them) you have to provide somewhere for them to play until they're needed. Otherwise they leave and when your problem hits you, there's nobody left to help you with it.

[Demonhood]

i think the OP has the new record for saying "vmarks" in a post.

also, if we removed him as moderator, he wouldn't be able to complete your second request of having him ban you. you really should consider the logistics of it all.

[Laminar]

vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks

I believe I have that record now. I'll be awaiting my gold medal in the mail.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks

Dammit, now you’ve got me trying to figure out a way to parse that into an actual sentence. You know, like the old “had had had had had had had had had had had had had had” one.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks vmarks

I believe I have that record now. I'll be awaiting my gold medal in the mail.

Yeah, but I doubt anyone has broken my record for writing Barack Hussein Obama.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well don't go into the lounge then.

Oh, I don't. Problem is, all the trash spills over into other places.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well, it's only libs complaining about vmarks because the conservatives here generally aren't a bunch of cry-baby pansies. I've had plenty of infractions given to me by vmarks over the years but you don't read about it here in feedback because I take it like a man.

Yup, that sums it up, I suppose. I've gotten infractions too, but I don't cry about them.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Dammit, now you’ve got me trying to figure out a way to parse that into an actual sentence. You know, like the old “had had had had had had had had had had had had had had” one.

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I must say it's surprising that only people considering themselves liberal complain about vmarks. A sign of fair moderation is usually that everybody complains.

That said, the problem could be solved on the spot if the Lounge were just deleted altogether. Should have happened ages ago IMHO.

Or the problem could be solved on the spot if mods that want to personally participate in PWL discussions take of the moderator hat. Why is this too much to ask for ?

This freaking conflict of interest has been allowed for too long.

-t

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

Of course there's the great Chinese "Mama ma ma ma".

[Rumor]

I am probably not a good example, since I have only received two (I think) infractions the time I have been here. One was from calling Abe a paranoid something or another, but our discussions usually were heated. I can't remember what the other was for.

Anyways, both were deserved, so I saw it as a non-issue.

However, while I have nothing against vmarks, perhaps having someone mod the Pol/War lounge that doesn't participate would be a good thing. Or maybe have a truly neutral party such as Glenn (Sorry Glenn, you're probably thinking, "Why would you ever wish that upon me? What did I do to you?") be the mod.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Or the problem could be solved on the spot if mods that want to personally participate in PWL discussions take of the moderator hat. Why is this too much to ask for ?

This freaking conflict of interest has been allowed for too long.

That's like telling cops they're not members of the society they police anymore. Besides, no one's life depends on access to the forums. These aren't mission critical discussions we're having. If the staff is following an objective guideline for enforcement of the rules - and we have no reason to believe otherwise - then what staff members choose to write in public threads aside from their mod duties shouldn't make a difference. The problem is that certain elements within the left-wing here expect to be able to use intimidation tactics against staff members they don't like. I have been contacted in the past by some right-wing posters who have complained of perceived moderator abuse, but for the most part the right has learned to take it and move on.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

That's like telling cops they're not members of the society they police anymore.

Bad analogy.

It would be like telling the cops they'd have to arrest their family members as well if they get caught committing a crime.

-t

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

However, while I have nothing against vmarks, perhaps having someone mod the Pol/War lounge that doesn't participate would be a good thing. Or maybe have a truly neutral party such as Glenn (Sorry Glenn, you're probably thinking, "Why would you ever wish that upon me? What did I do to you?") be the mod.

The thing is, moderating a forum in which you have no interest — for free — isn't exactly a gig people will line up around the block for. Especially seeing the abuse vmarks takes.

Also, I don't think I'd describe Glenn as "neutral." He definitely has his opinions. Just like everybody who isn't empty in the head, I suppose.

[Shaddim]

I can't help but think that many of you are just going to get the "tough titty" answer.

No, I don't think Victor's been unfair, conservatives get slapped too, evidence of this has been shown in this thread. The fact is, if you feel that you're being treated poorly no one is keeping you here, they're not holding a gun to your head.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Simon 

That said, the problem could be solved on the spot if the Lounge were just deleted altogether. Should have happened ages ago IMHO.

The lounge has worked for people like myself that don't get into stupid arguments with people. Sorry, epic fail on your logic there. If I can get so much as maybe two warnings in 10 years, I would have to say that the problem isn't the lounge.

[hyteckit]

First of all, I'm not complaining about infractions; I'm complaining about vmarks.

Second of all, as a liberal, I believe in regulations and oversight, thus the need for rules and moderators to regulate the forum. I believe regulations and oversight makes the forum better. Without the rules and regulations, people will abuse it and the forum will tank just as the US stock market has because of the lack of regulations in the financial markets.

My problem is not with the regulations. My problems is with a moderator who isn't doing his job properly as a regulator. Regulations are only good when it is being regulated properly.

[Chuckit]

And you have what evidence against this moderator? It's been stated again and again (and even again after that) that vmarks does go after conservatives too. Some of the people you complained about attacking you in the first post have been banned in the past for such things — multiple times, even. What more do you want the staff to do? Permabans for all the conservatives?

There don't seem to have been any abuse reports by you in the past month, so I'm not sure what posts you're complaining about. If you feel like you've been attacked, report it. It's not really fair to accuse vmarks of ignoring your plight if you haven't even bothered to speak up.

[RAILhead]

He's upset because he followed me into a non-political thread and tried to start up his crap, and I reported him -- and vmarks gave him the infraction.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Seriously. vmarks can't make rational moderator decisions and is blinded by the conservative leaning views.

He allows conservative to personally bash me, by calling me an @ss and half-intelligent or not smart enough to read. Yet he bans me for saying Captain Obvious is whiny, because it was a personal attack.

Now I get an infraction by vmarks for pointing out RAILhead's hypocrisy on regulations and oversight. That's also a personal attack.

No wonder why this forum has gone down the tubes.

Hey vmarks, why don't you just permanently ban me cause you are hurt by my opposing views. Did I hurt your feelings by disagreeing with you? Maybe I need to handle you with gloves in the political forum by not disagreeing with you too much or call others out on their hypocrisy?

Yes, I know you are doing this infraction thingy to incite me to post something that will get me permenantly banned. Go ahead vmarks. I'm sick of your crap anyway, vmarks.

I agree. He's banned most of the left and others just stopped dropping in. His agenda is obvious and biased. Kick him out.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And you have what evidence against this moderator? It's been stated again and again (and even again after that) that vmarks does go after conservatives too.

Pure bullsheet.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by starman 

The lounge has worked for people like myself that don't get into stupid arguments with people. Sorry, epic fail on your logic there. If I can get so much as maybe two warnings in 10 years, I would have to say that the problem isn't the lounge.

Thanx for the proof. You should have many more.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

I agree. He's banned most of the left and others just stopped dropping in. His agenda is obvious and biased. Kick him out.

Oooooh an agenda!!! Boooo, hissssss.

[subego]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

He's upset because he followed me into a non-political thread and tried to start up his crap, and I reported him -- and vmarks gave him the infraction.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Now I get an infraction by vmarks for pointing out RAILhead's hypocrisy on regulations and oversight. That's also a personal attack.

Can we get a link?

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Yeah, but I doubt anyone has broken my record for writing Barack Hussein Obama.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

I am probably not a good example, since I have only received two (I think) infractions the time I have been here. One was from calling Abe a paranoid something or another, but our discussions usually were heated. I can't remember what the other was for.

Anyways, both were deserved, so I saw it as a non-issue.

However, while I have nothing against vmarks, perhaps having someone mod the Pol/War lounge that doesn't participate would be a good thing. Or maybe have a truly neutral party such as Glenn (Sorry Glenn, you're probably thinking, "Why would you ever wish that upon me? What did I do to you?") be the mod.

Or someone from the other side.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And you have what evidence against this moderator? It's been stated again and again (and even again after that) that vmarks does go after conservatives too. Some of the people you complained about attacking you in the first post have been banned in the past for such things — multiple times, even. What more do you want the staff to do? Permabans for all the conservatives?

There don't seem to have been any abuse reports by you in the past month, so I'm not sure what posts you're complaining about. If you feel like you've been attacked, report it. It's not really fair to accuse vmarks of ignoring your plight if you haven't even bothered to speak up.

Who deals with a post by vmarks that's reported?

vmarks?

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Who deals with a post by vmarks that's reported?

vmarks?

As with any post about a moderator, admins would look at it and take any action or inaction.

I'll add my voice to the throng and say that vmarks is absolutely fair.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

However, while I have nothing against vmarks, perhaps having someone mod the Pol/War lounge that doesn't participate would be a good thing. Or maybe have a truly neutral party such as Glenn (Sorry Glenn, you're probably thinking, "Why would you ever wish that upon me? What did I do to you?") be the mod.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Also, I don't think I'd describe Glenn as "neutral." He definitely has his opinions. Just like everybody who isn't empty in the head, I suppose.

I work hard at being neutral—or at least objective—in all my posts. Except for a very few instances though, stuff in the PL gets so stupid, so quickly, that my potential for objectivity goes out the window. So I just don't post there very much. Basically, if the discussion makes my blood pressure rise, I just back out. While I appreciate the props, Rumor, I would NOT make a good mod for the PL. I just could not handle the kind of poorly digested crap that people sling at each other, and especially like they sling at vmarks. From my vantage point, he works hard to be as equitable as possible without violating his own beliefs. You're not going to find very many people on the planet that can manage to do that at all, let alone any that can please people on both sides of an issue.

I would recommend to ANYONE who posts in the PL, which is of course there simply for high-stress subjects like politics, that they compose and edit their posts, and then re-read them from the standpoint of "is this really a statement of my position, or am I just succumbing to being childish like all those other yahoos in the PL?" Of course that "Submit Reply" button is pretty compelling; it's hard not to "make your point" right away, even if you're not really effective in making it because you come across as immature or illogical.

[brassplayersrock²]

I'll throw in my name as a mod for the pol/war lounge. I don't follow politics, and don't care about them, so it won't matter what side the person is for me, if he or she breaks a rule, then a talking to will be in hand, or an infraction. I'd be perfect.

[Kerrigan]

Ahh, the semi-annual "I hate teh vmarks" thread. I've had infractions from vmarks, one quite recent. You don't see me starting threads every time this happens.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Who deals with a post by vmarks that's reported?
vmarks?

wmarx?

*rimshot*

-t

[brassplayersrock²]

Wouldn't the ADMINS take care of something that a MOD did if need be?

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

He's upset because he followed me into a non-political thread and tried to start up his crap, and I reported him -- and vmarks gave him the infraction.

I was not following you. I have to click on the lounge before getting to the pol/war lounge. You posted to the lounge a thread about a show that I just started watching with the first two words in caps "NBC's LIFE" and it was on top of the forum, so it caught my attention. When Code Warrior pointed out that I should keep political discussions to the pol/war lounge, I stopped. Seems Code Warrior is doing his job correctly, which I value and respect. If Code Warrior thinks vmarks is being fair, then I value his judgement.

I just found it hypocritical that you complain about regulation and oversight, but rely on it so much. You rely on copyright regulations for your business and you rely on the oversight committee of this forum which are the moderators, because you can't handle someone calling you out on your hypocrisy.

If you don't have thick enough skin to handle questions about your views or having someone call you out on your hypocrisy, maybe stay out of the pol/war lounge? Why try to derail my threads by posting cat pictures? You posted into a thread I've started by making comments that I have a fascination with Gitmo and that you hated oversight. So I ask legitimate questions like "how many times did I mention Gitmo" and "what oversight is RAILhead bitching about", which you seem to ignore. Why post and run, with no intentions to further the discussion? Hey, I'm just curious what oversight that you hate so much when running your businesses.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Another winner of a thread by hyteckit. Quick, he's imploding!

But if you loons ever do succeed in silencing vmarks, I'll bail out of the forums in protest. That's more incentive for you to try to target him, I suppose. Wait a second, hyteckit, are you being racist here by targeting vmarks? Hey, what's good for the goose, right?

Shouldn't Big Mac get an infraction for following me outside the political forum and being "personal antagonizing" towards me?

Hey, that's what I got an infraction for, so it would only seem fair.

I don't even know what race is vmarks, nor do I care.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by subego 

Can we get a link?

vmarks said I was "posting with personal antagonism towards him" [RAILhead] and not furthering discussion.

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...n/#post3738246

Seems exactly what RAILhead is doing in my thread. I just ask RAILhead what oversight he was bitching about and how many times I have reference Gitmo.

[OreoCookie]

Again, hyteckit, can you show a few examples of the kind?
Unless you back your claims of a pattern with something substantiative, you won't convince anyone. I still have vivid memories of threads back when infractions were introduced. The accusations towards me were exactly the same as the ones you make towards vmarks. In the end, the gist was, that my actions could be motivated by my opinions (although there was no way to prove it one way or the other).

You could have made this into a more productive discussion (e. g. request that `a liberal mod augments vmarks and `balances' the moderation'). The fact that you went for something that melodramatic `didn't help your cause.'

So again, please bring up evidence of systematically unfair moderation in the PL, please.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I was not following you. I have to click on the lounge before getting to the pol/war lounge. You posted to the lounge a thread about a show that I just started watching with the first two words in caps "NBC's LIFE" and it was on top of the forum, so it caught my attention. When Code Warrior pointed out that I should keep political discussions to the pol/war lounge, I stopped. Seems Code Warrior is doing his job correctly, which I value and respect. If Code Warrior thinks vmarks is being fair, then I value his judgement.

I just found it hypocritical that you complain about regulation and oversight, but rely on it so much. You rely on copyright regulations for your business and you rely on the oversight committee of this forum which are the moderators, because you can't handle someone calling you out on your hypocrisy.

If you don't have thick enough skin to handle questions about your views or having someone call you out on your hypocrisy, maybe stay out of the pol/war lounge? Why try to derail my threads by posting cat pictures? You posted into a thread I've started by making comments that I have a fascination with Gitmo and that you hated oversight. So I ask legitimate questions like "how many times did I mention Gitmo" and "what oversight is RAILhead bitching about", which you seem to ignore. Why post and run, with no intentions to further the discussion? Hey, I'm just curious what oversight that you hate so much when running your businesses.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Shouldn't Big Mac get an infraction for following me outside the political forum and being "personal antagonizing" towards me?

Hey, that's what I got an infraction for, so it would only seem fair.

[seanc]

Here's my point of view on the chain of events:

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...ripped-me-off/

Originally Posted by RAILhead - 8/10/08 20:49

NBC's LIFE Ripped Me Off ... etc

Originally Posted by hyteckit - 8/10/08 23:39

]It's a free market. No need oversight and regulations or the courts.

Originally Posted by RAILhead - 9/10/08 00:53

What?

Originally Posted by hyteckit - 9/10/08 01:02

You hate regulations and oversight. Now you are the champion of copyright regulations?

If you hate oversight and regulations, don't bitch about others taking your design.

Originally Posted by RAILhead - 9/10/08 01:09

:yawn:

Originally Posted by hyteckit -9/10/08 01:31

Oh course.

Regulations that protects you = good
Regulations that protects your customers = bad

Did I get that right? Or do you just hate all regulations and oversight?

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior - 9/10/08 01:40

The pol/war fights should stay in that section.

Originally Posted by hyteckit - 9/10/08 01:50

Gotcha!

11 hours later

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...n/#post3738246

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Looks like RAILhead likes certain types of regulations and oversight, like copyright regulations. Maybe we should get rid of those copyright regulations to make it easier for RAILhead.

http://forums.macnn.com/61/feedback/...ripped-me-off/

You'd already argued with him in the above thread in the pol/war lounge, then went into the regular lounge to continue it. When CW told you to take it back to the pol/war lounge, you continued the same argument linking back to it, showing that your intentions were to attack RAILhead.


If you have a problem with a member, use the report abuse button and it'll get sorted out, if you take it into your own hands and get an infraction about it, don't whine about unfairness because you had your opportunity to try fix & it the right way.