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TV advice - 50-55 inches + running cable?
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Aug 30, 2012, 06:59 AM
 
I've been looking at LED TVs in the sub-$2000 range. (It's a bright room so plasma is probably a non-starter.) Don't care about 3D; would probably enjoy the "Smart" line of TVs that have Netflix etc. attached.

I've been looking at models by Samsung and Sony, in particular, but I'm not tied to anything. I have a 40" or 42" 120Hz Samsung slim LED purchased last year and frankly, I've been a little disappointed with the quality - it's definitely nowhere near the older plasma screens my friends have, but, it was the first generation of 120Hz LEDs with that incredibly slim form, so it may be that things have improved since then.

Any recommendations?


Secondly, the TV will be on top of the mantle of a (non-used) fireplace - a low one, so it's a great placement spot. I've had an electrical outlet installed above the mantle behind where the TV will be, and now the only issue is getting the connection cable(s) from the source (AppleTV or Mac mini or Blu-Ray etc.) to the TV - about a 12-14 foot run, I think, because it will have to run underneath the floor and up through the chimney box. I'm doing some other work so I've got part of a wall open and think I should be able drill a hole and fish the cables around the chimney inside. Obviously, this is something I want to make semi-permanent: my question is, what cable to use (HDMI I assume?), how will the length of the run affect picture quality, and what brand would people recommend to use/avoid, if any?

Thanks
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Athens
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Aug 30, 2012, 08:37 AM
 
Plasma should be a non-starter for many reasons, higher energy usage, they burn out, its older technology.

LED displays are the best way to go for longevity. I would make that the main feature in your search.
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ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Aug 30, 2012, 08:47 AM
 
What about "quality of viewing"? The best picture quality I've personally seen have all come from plasma screens (and by that I mean, you watch an HD movie and it just looks gorgeous - colours are vivid, blacks are deep, deep black, not a dark grey like on my current screen...). No idea if that's just been a total fluke of my viewing experience, but it does seem to accord well to what people say of plasma screens.
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Aug 30, 2012, 09:46 AM
 
Why do you want 120 Hz? I guess it can help for 24 Hz source material, but personally I hate the interpolation modes some of the 120 Hz TVs provide. I ALWAYS turn that feature off.

Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Plasma should be a non-starter for many reasons, higher energy usage, they burn out, its older technology.
LED displays are the best way to go for longevity. I would make that the main feature in your search.
I bought a plasma because of cost. The energy wasn't that much different from my previous LCD, although it's higher than the new crop of LEDs.

For image quality though plasma is great... as long as you don't have a lot of background light, for two reasons:

1) Plasmas may seem DIM in very bright conditions.
2) Plasmas usually have high glare screens.

I found to get a good LED TV, you might have to spend twice as much as a plasma.
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Aug 30, 2012, 10:06 AM
 
120 as opposed to what Hz number? Everything now seems to be 240; I was actually wrong, my current TV was the first round of Samsung's LED 240Hz thin flatscreens; the issue being that it will only run on 120Hz with the AppleTV, so it was a moot point.

This is a fairly large, very bright room with an adjacent bay window; yes, most viewing will be at night, but I don't want to rule out mornings as well. Does not seem practical for plasma, as glare will probably be quite high.
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Aug 30, 2012, 11:41 AM
 
60 Hz. But if 120 MHz is cheap, you may as well get it.
     
Athens
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Aug 30, 2012, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
What about "quality of viewing"? The best picture quality I've personally seen have all come from plasma screens (and by that I mean, you watch an HD movie and it just looks gorgeous - colours are vivid, blacks are deep, deep black, not a dark grey like on my current screen...). No idea if that's just been a total fluke of my viewing experience, but it does seem to accord well to what people say of plasma screens.
I only said in longevity. For blacks Plasma is the undisputed champion. For gray scale information LCD wins. For color saturation its more natural on Plasma. Plasma suffers burn-ins , dimming over life spam, those claims of 30000 hours are just not true. Cheap ones cause humming sounds. For all intents and purposes Plasma's are the better screen technology. But getting 5 years out of a Plasma TV under heavy use is the issue. LCD too. LED backlite LCD's should last easily a decade. They have closed the gap in all the major areas to Plasma which is why I suggested it. But ultimately Plasma is still the best for quality when you look at dollars. I think LED displays have caught up to Plasma's just cost more.
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Aug 30, 2012, 06:24 PM
 
Burn-in is still an issue with plasma, but fortunately nowhere near as bad these days. In the first few weeks if I watched a 4:3 show with black bars on the sides, after a while I'd see evidence of burn-in when I switched to a 16:9 show. However this would disappear after a minute. However, now I don't get that anymore. It seems the claim that plasmas take time to break in is true. However, I don't play games on this TV. That might be tougher on the TV as you may have the same screen elements on-screen for hours on end, like a heads up display or something.
     
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Aug 30, 2012, 11:15 PM
 
You might be able to find a Philips Cinema 21:9 on sale now that they are being discontinued.
     
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Aug 31, 2012, 12:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I have a 40" or 42" 120Hz Samsung slim LED purchased last year and frankly, I've been a little disappointed with the quality - it's definitely nowhere near the older plasma screens my friends have, but, it was the first generation of 120Hz LEDs with that incredibly slim form, so it may be that things have improved since then.
Samsung had big production problems on several generations of their ultra thins (the ones that start with UE) that caused clouding - uneven brightness. Don't know if they have them fixed - the one my sister bought last Christmas has the issue, but not so severe as what you can find online.

As I mentioned in another thread, I have a Sharp 52LE831 that I am very happy with, and I'm wary of Samsung because of the issue above.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Aug 31, 2012, 01:04 AM
 
As for longevity... It's not as much of an issue as it once was. Plasma used to have terrible longevity and have improved a lot, but the difference between the types is what happens when a display starts to fail. LCDs lose brightness over time as the backlight burns out, which can be compensated for if you increase the brightness over time. LEDs also lose brightness, but it is a much sharper decline when it fails - they stay perfect for much longer, and then fall off a cliff. Plasmas lose the colors individually, so if the blue fails first (as was the case at least for older plasmas), the display goes yellow over time. That is much harder to compensate for.

Also, LED displays have a far bigger color gamut than plasmas these days. The better blacklevels can make colors on a plasma look more lifelike as long as you stay inside the regular NTSC color space, but the color reproduction in general is better on a 3-LED display (which is the sort of display any good TV has. Note that computers generally have a lower quality white LED backlight, with much worse color reproduction).
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Aug 31, 2012, 05:59 AM
 
Ahhhh. I suspected there was something funny going on with mine - didn't bother to check (to be honest, it's one of those things that would probably bug me if I actually knew what it was, but otherwise it's just a faint discontent. I'm a child of the 90s; faint discontent is perfectly acceptable). It's certainly not obviously visible when viewing, but like I said you definitely notice the difference when moving to a good plasma screen. At the time, everyone seemed to be raving about Samsung screens - perhaps things have changed a little?

I'd rather the ultra-thing versions - they're pretty awesome from a wall-hanging perspective. From a price perspective, Samsung, Sony, and Sharp seem to have good offerings in a 50" screen - anyone tried Panasonic or LG?

Also re: cables: any advice? I'm okay with 12-14 foot HDMI runs?
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Aug 31, 2012, 06:11 AM
 
15-foot HDMI cable runs are fine if you have good cables. A lot of the 15 foot cables out there are crap. Crap is often fine for 6' but at 10-15' you start running into signal integrity issues, esp. if you're talking 1080p60, but even if you're just doing 1080p24. At 25', signal integrity issues are extremely common.

By signal integrity issues I don't mean the signal will necessarily completely cut out, although sometimes it might. One common problem is sparklies. The image is there, but you get occasional individual pixels lighting up for a split second. Also, this may not occur with all equipment, or even all ports on the same equipment. Basically, you're running at the borderline. Another symptom is screen flashing.

BTW, by non-crap cables I don't mean you have to necessarily buy $200 cables. Just don't buy cheap department store stuff or cheap eBay stuff. I found a reasonable compromise are cables like Monoprice's 24 AWG Chinese cables. Inexpensive, but work way better than standard 28 AWG Chinese cables you get at the department store or eBay. However, I have never tried 3D content with those cables.

Also, the fewer the connections the better, but one benefit of using better quality cables is you can add port savers if you want and it should still work. If you add a port saver to a marginal cable, it will probably stop working completely.

For 25' cables, I'd recommend top tier cables, but those are $$$. A good one for example is Blue Jeans Belden Series 1, but that goes for $87 plus shipping.
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Aug 31, 2012, 07:33 AM
 
Well I'm going to run some string and figure out my exact length, but I'd say no more than 14 feet. I used Blue Jeans for my stereo and optical cables, so maybe I'll place an order for their HDMI as well.
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mduell
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Aug 31, 2012, 07:46 AM
 
12-14ft isn't that long for an HDMI run, you can use monoprice 24AWG cable. I've done monoprice 22AWG cable out to 40ft and it's fine at 1080p.

I'd get a 4x1 HDMI switcher and short colored cables for wherever you'll have all the devices, and then run one cable to the TV.
     
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Aug 31, 2012, 07:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
12-14ft isn't that long for an HDMI run, you can use monoprice 24AWG cable. I've done monoprice 22AWG cable out to 40ft and it's fine at 1080p.
I'd get a 4x1 HDMI switcher and short colored cables for wherever you'll have all the devices, and then run one cable to the TV.
Those Monoprice 22 AWG Chinese cables are decent, but they're extremely stiff.

So like you I'd recommend the Monoprice 24 AWG at 15 feet, and then go to the 23.5 AWG Belden Series 1 at 25 feet unless budget is a big issue or you have a lot of space to work with to compensate for the stiffness of the 22 AWG cable.
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Aug 31, 2012, 08:05 AM
 
Wait, why would I get 15 feet and 25 feet? I didn't realize there was an HDMI switcher, so from that I'd only need one 15-foot cable no? Or do you mean the latter only if I need 25 feet instead?
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Aug 31, 2012, 08:28 AM
 
Sorry if my post came out confusing. I was just saying (and I think mduell agrees) that up to 15 feet you have a number of choices, including relatively inexpensive good cables, like those Monoprice 24 AWG ones.

However, I also added that if you find you have to go longer than 15 feet, you might want to get different cables.

Remember also a piece of string may not be completely representative, as it won't be as stiff as a 24 AWG cable. If a string requires 15 feet, you might need a 17 foot 24 AWG cable or something, due to routing difficulties caused by the cable's thickness and stiffness. OTOH, if your string comes out to 12 feet, then a 15 foot 24 AWG cable will likely be sufficient. It depends upon where the cable is going, the orientation of the TV's HDMI ports (back facing or down facing?) and the location of wall holes, if any, etc.
     
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Aug 31, 2012, 03:03 PM
 
Monoprice also has adapters that lets you run HDMI over Cat6. Cat6 cables are cheap, easy to run and Monoprice claims that it works with cable lengths of at least 98 feet.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Aug 31, 2012, 04:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Monoprice also has adapters that lets you run HDMI over Cat6. Cat6 cables are cheap, easy to run and Monoprice claims that it works with cable lengths of at least 98 feet.
The reviews are pretty hit-and-miss on those.
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Sep 25, 2012, 03:49 AM
 
Alright. So I got a Panasonic ST50 plasma screen. We'll see how it does in-person, but it does get very solid reviews and I did enjoy the one in the store - LEDs in the sub-$2000 range all looked ultra-contrasty and grey-er in comparison. (Of course they were much brighter, so the wife immediately liked them, but that bright-TV-in-a-bright-store trick is an old one, right?) The more expensive LEDs were definitely really, really nice (both the image and the TV) but I didn't want to be shelling out $2500+ at this point, when OLEDs are rumoured to be right around the corner.

My standalone, home-built DAC has only one type of each input (yes, pain in the ass I know, but it sounds great and I don't want to spend a shitload for a new one), and if I have multiple inputs I've got to flick this little tiny switch in the back, which is terrible. So until I can get an Anthem AVM 50v I've ordered a cheap 3-to-1 optical cable from Monoprice so that I can plug both the Blu-Ray player and the ATV / Mac Mini and simply manually choose the source feeding the DAC. I probably use BR about once a month, so I figure it will almost always be set to one setting, anyway; I'm not sure how much signal degradation I'll get, and there are more expensive optical switchers that I've found, so I'll just get the cheap one and play it by ear and do some blind tests (switch/no switch) to see if I can spot a difference.

Otherwise, I've run 15-foot HDMI cables in-wall to Monoprice's dual-HDMI plates on both sides (again one for BR, one for ATV/mini). Then I'll run two shorter HDMI cables from the wall plates to each source on one side, and both to the TV on the other side. Should look fairly sharp I think.
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Sep 25, 2012, 06:53 PM
 
For my plasma, I used to get image retention if I left the TV on with a 4:3 image too long or something, but over several weeks, the susceptibility of the TV to image retention has decreased.

The risk of permanent burn-in has decreased dramatically though, unless you leave say an Xbox 360 fixed game screen on 24/7 for a couple of days when you first get the TV.
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Sep 26, 2012, 02:15 AM
 
Yeah, I no longer do anything related to gaming and don't have an xBox or any of that stuff. Burn-in shouldn't be a problem.
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Sep 28, 2012, 09:57 PM
 
I just bought an LG Cinema 3D Smart TV .

Surprised at how good it is for the price.

One feature most people don't think about is LG's support discrete input switching- if you are ever going to get a logitech harmony remote its a great feature.
Samsung don't generally have this and so I will never buy one.

Also it plays 1080p video directly off Macs with Plex server installed (free) - no AppleTV needed.

Also supports catchup tv out of the box in most countries.

LG have a free remote control iPhone/iPad app.

The 3D is a gimick, but it works and is fun.
     
ShortcutToMoncton  (op)
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Oct 5, 2012, 11:40 AM
 
Yeah, the ability to install Plex client directly on the TV is pretty huge. I wish the Panasonic had something like that.
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