[freudling]

The N9 could be their saviour.

This looks like a pretty cool phone, like, as good as the iPhone...

I know the iPhone 5 is going to be great. This N9 looks like it will compete quite well with Apple's latest and greatest. And Nokia seems to be focusing on a lot less devices. It's all about the N9 now.

And their marketing for it makes Apple's look like a droopy eyed armless child.

I wonder how this will all turn out?

Home | Experience Nokia N9 – All it takes is a swipe

[Waragainstsleep]

Nokia could still go either way. If it weren't for the $1B kickback from M$ to use Windows Mobile they'd be all but done for already I suspect. I feel they would go the way of RIM if it weren't for the budget (non smart) phone market. But that will only sustain them for a few more years until smartphones get cheap enough.

[Salty]

Nokia will never be as big as they once were. My guess is that once it's all said and done, a lot of their Symbian fans are going to give up once Windows Phone 7 is their only option, and let's face it, Nokia's mostly been getting by on old phone owners not wanting to learn a new OS. I can't see Windows Phone 7 ever getting more than 10% marketshare, though I can see Nokia having most of that. I would not be at all surprised if Microsoft ended up buying or merging with Nokia after a while, since they're tying their fates so tightly together.

The iPhone's going to continue to gain share, specifically in the lower end with iPhones free on contracts, as well as in the high end once they're available on all US carriers. Once LTE becomes standard, you'll probably be able to get an iPhone on nearly every carrier in every part of the world. That'll leave room for iOS and Android in the majority shares, with Microsoft, RIM, and HP/Palm, to fight over the rest. My guess is that Microsoft and HP will outlast RIM simply because they won't be bleeding cash on their phone operations nearly as badly.

[imitchellg5]

The N9 isn't the answer for Nokia, but it does still show that Nokia can make stunning hardware. Now they just need to put Windows Phone 7 on it.

[Cold Warrior]

It looks sharp. I found some HD videos on youtube of it as well. Too bad it runs a dead-end OS. If someone likes nokia already and they're ok with a phone that will see little software feature growth (apps or OS), it seems like a good choice.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

It looks sharp. I found some HD videos on youtube of it as well. Too bad it runs a dead-end OS. If someone likes nokia already and they're ok with a phone that will see little software feature growth (apps or OS), it seems like a good choice.

What you're seeing is just a stopgap. It's all Elop's decision to run Symbian or Meego on the first gen N9. He wants to "stop the bleeding" asap so his strategy is get to market asap. The N9 is really designed for WP7, and the 'real N9', the one running WP7, will be out perhaps by the end of the year.

I really love this phone. A huge AOMLED screen and nice design. Curved glass; unibody design; 8 MP camera with Carl Zeiss lens. Apple could learn a few things from this phone.

It's great to have the competition. This will go head to head with the iPhone 5.

I think I've got a pretty good idea of what the iPhone 5 is going to be. Half an inch wider, much thinner than the current iPhone. Curved edges, like the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1. Perhaps aluminum back like the original iPhone. 4" screen. Hardly any black bezel on the left or right...

So I think Apple's going to move to a unibody design with the iPhone 5. To get that, likely aluminum is the ticket.

We're seeing a bit of an evolution here with thinner, yet slightly larger screens for smartphones.

Apple also filed a patent recently for some tube-like battery technology. I think/hope that the iPhone 5 might feature some breakthrough battery technology as well.

[ajprice]

What's the advantage of a curved glass screen?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

What's the advantage of a curved glass screen?

Ergonomics in a big way. Swiping across the screen becomes more fluid. Holding the device feels nicer in the hand.

Right now I'm posting with an iPod Toch 4th gen. The sides of the device are digging into my hands. It doesn't feel good of course. And the screen feels a bit small. I wish it were a bit bigger.

Nokia's N9 is the answer here. Look at at. Imagine how nice it will feel in the hand.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

What's the advantage of a curved glass screen?

It's one of those things that you don't notice unless you use a phone with a curved glass display. It's simply a lot more comfortable to type on. My dad's Nexus S has one, and it's funny, now if he tries to use a phone without a curved glass display, he complains that he's hitting all the wrong keys and his hands are uncomfortable. In the case of the Nexus S, the phone just fits perfectly within the palm of your hand.

[Waragainstsleep]

You seem very taken with it but whats the app situation like for Symbian or even WP7? I can't imagine either is anywhere near Android which of course is nowhere near iOS.

[Waragainstsleep]

I can't help but think this curved screen thing is another passing fad waiting to happen.

People made a big fuss about how the original iPhone felt in your hand, then a bigger fuss about the 3G. Now apparently they are all painfully uncomfortable.

iPod earbuds also spring to mind. THey were lauded when they were new and now everyone hates them and says they sound like crap.

I can see how the curved screen would make typing easier though.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

I can't help but think this curved screen thing is another passing fad waiting to happen.

People made a big fuss about how the original iPhone felt in your hand, then a bigger fuss about the 3G. Now apparently they are all painfully uncomfortable.

iPod earbuds also spring to mind. THey were lauded when they were new and now everyone hates them and says they sound like crap.

I can see how the curved screen would make typing easier though.

I do not think that curved glass is a passing fad. I think it will become a standard very shortly.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

You seem very taken with it but whats the app situation like for Symbian or even WP7? I can't imagine either is anywhere near Android which of course is nowhere near iOS.

Well Symbian is pretty much dead in the water, offloaded to Accenture. But watch this video. This is the N9 running MeeGo. I believe they're going to market with this Sept. 15. It actually looks better in many respects than iOS! Really. I urge everyone to watch this. MeeGo looks fantastic on here. This phone is simply mind-blowing.

‪Nokia N9 First Look - Software‬‏ - YouTube

[freudling]

I got a chance to try the N9 today. Let me say this is the best phone I've ever experienced. It makes my Touch and iPhone 4 look and behave like pieces of antiquated crap.

It's all about that curved glass and unibody design! Wow!!! And the screen is out of this world. They've polarized the glass and pushed the screen super close to the glass. It looks like eInk but it's an LCD screen. Low glare, super bright and crisp! Best screen I've ever seen.

And MeeGo is great. Going back to iOS is depressing. Ya, iOS has the Apps, but I'd rather have less and have this phone. It's that good. The jesus phone has been reinvented.

Expect Apple's iPhone 5 to be neck and neck with this. I wonder about the curved glass. Did Nokia grip the idea from Apple, or did Apple grip it from Nokia?

They both I am sure get informed from moles in manufacturing places that let them in on the latest o what the other guys are doing. But I think Nokia found out some intel on Apple's iPhone 5 a while back and applied the concept to this new phone.

Here's a clue. Jobs presented to City Council in Cupertino recently his spaceship headquarter initiative. He seemed to know things about curved glass. "As you might be aware, curved glass is not the cheapest stuff to make." He went on about how there wouldn't be one piece of straight glass on the entire structure.

Now, Jobs could have learned all about curved glass by investigating it in regards to the spaceship, or, him and his team could have applied their knowledge of curved glass as they learnt from something like a new iPhone they'd been working on.

Whoever had the idea first, let me just say I think this is going to be huge. Like, curved glass will be a new standard. After you use it you won't want to use a multi-touch device without it. It's that good.

I think the iPhone 5 will have curved glass.

The N9 is going to be big...

[imitchellg5]

Where did you find a N9?

[Waragainstsleep]

Are the LCDs flexible or are they made to curve too?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Are the LCDs flexible or are they made to curve too?

It's AMOLED. If the N9 is like the Nexus S, the glass simply curves and not the panel (you can't tell though unless you're tearing it apart).

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Are the LCDs flexible or are they made to curve too?

iMitch gave a good reply. Not flexible. Head over to Home | Experience Nokia N9 – All it takes is a swipe and look at it. Why this curved glass is even more of a winner on the N9 is because it is so integrated into a unibody design. It's like impossible to tell where the glass begins and ends when using it in person. And it really is solidly curved. They seemed to have curved it just enough and not too much that it is so incredibly perfect.

Call it luck. Call it fate. Whatever you want. The N9 is the real deal in a big way. It's really going to help redefine smartphones. The 3.9" screen it has also seems to be the absolute sweet spot for a smartphone.

When you go back to an iPhone the screen does seem too small. The 3.9" screen is better. It's more natural. I think Apple's iPhone 5 is going to be right around the same size.

Now, the AMOLED screen they're using. This thing bumps. They've bested the retina display because they've got a really good polarized piece of glass on there and the LCD is pushed so close to the glass it's incredibly life-like. The colours are so rich and vibrant it's just jaw dropping.

Now, back to the curved glass. Just imagine it now. Jobs up on stage... telling a story on how they came across the idea for curved glass. Ranting about this 1 aspect for minutes, blowing it up big time. I think that's how big this is, and Apple knows it.

Sure I could be wrong but I believe every decent smartphone within the next 1.5 years will have some kind of curved glass and unibody design.

I have an analogy. What would you rather do. Walk straight up a cliff or more gradually transition into it? Better yet... What would you rather do, walk straight off a cliff or more gradually transition off of it?

Right. That's what the curved glass does. It's an amazing transition on and off the main-screen when you are swiping and gesturing. When I go back to the iPhone 4, or pretty much any other multi-touch device, my fingers/hands just fall right off the edge swiping. It's not totally natural. It doesn't feel good. It's not ergonomic.

Nokia has nailed this. The iPhone 5 is going to be killer too.

[ajprice]

I'm not sure about this phone and why they are showing this version now. Nokia handed Meego over to Intel and not long ago they got in with MS to make Windows phones, so why are the showing off Meego as the new thing now? Technically the hardware does look very nice, it would make a great halo handset for the Windows 'Mango' OS update. But instead they have put an OS on it that they publicly dropped in favour of Windows. As a developer, would you really want to make an app for that?

Hardware: Very Nice, even if it is a bit like an old iPod nano and an iPhone made babies.
OS: Dead end. Makes no sense.

(freudling, are you working for Nokia now?)

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I got a chance to try the N9 today. Let me say this is the best phone I've ever experienced. It makes my Touch and iPhone 4 look and behave like pieces of antiquated crap.

Interesting. I played with one this morning- sadly will not say where for confidentiality purposes, and came to a very different conclusion. I liked the screen and the size, but the device, like most nokia stuff these days, looked much better in photos than in real life. It just felt cheap to me- perhaps this is a personal preference thing, but it felt no where near as solid and well made as the iPhone 4. More inline with the quality of the 3GS.

As for liking the screen, it it obviously pre-release so perhaps it was not the same screen you saw, but I liked the size and the curved glass, but the quality of the image was nothing special. I also disliked the interface, but perhaps the gestures just take getting used to. The user who showed me the device has been using it for weeks as a primary phone and he still couldn't get the gestures to work as desired about 25% of the time. Maybe I would get used to it, but is seems to me any tough device that relies completely on gestures- gestures that can be accidentally invoked while using, is poorly designed. I can't see how this could be avoided with this phone.

It's not a bad bit of kit. It's also, in my opinion, nothing like a revolution. But this is subjective and I accept that.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

Interesting. I played with one this morning- sadly will not say where for confidentiality purposes, and came to a very different conclusion. I liked the screen and the size, but the device, like most nokia stuff these days, looked much better in photos than in real life. It just felt cheap to me- perhaps this is a personal preference thing, but it felt no where near as solid and well made as the iPhone 4. More inline with the quality of the 3GS.

As for liking the screen, it it obviously pre-release so perhaps it was not the same screen you saw, but I liked the size and the curved glass, but the quality of the image was nothing special. I also disliked the interface, but perhaps the gestures just take getting used to. The user who showed me the device has been using it for weeks as a primary phone and he still couldn't get the gestures to work as desired about 25% of the time. Maybe I would get used to it, but is seems to me any tough device that relies completely on gestures- gestures that can be accidentally invoked while using, is poorly designed. I can't see how this could be avoided with this phone.

It's not a bad bit of kit. It's also, in my opinion, nothing like a revolution. But this is subjective and I accept that.

Well man, I totally have a different impression than you on it.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

The user who showed me the device has been using it for weeks as a primary phone and he still couldn't get the gestures to work as desired about 25% of the time. Maybe I would get used to it, but is seems to me any tough device that relies completely on gestures- gestures that can be accidentally invoked while using, is poorly designed. I can't see how this could be avoided with this phone.

This is what jump out at me when I was watching the YouTube demo. I think it's something that will stymie the average user. On several occasions the guy doing the demo was attempting to swipe left within the app but ended up dragging the whole app as if to move it to the background. That would drive me nuts!

Aside from that the phone looks nice although I have to confess my first thought was that it looked like an iPod mini.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Aside from that the phone looks nice although I have to confess my first thought was that it looked like an iPod mini.

The last generation iPod nano is closer, back when it was a rectangle rather than a square. Same basic design though, except obviously no touch wheel- screen fills the whole thing and it's bigger- but not much if any thicker.

I really don't know how close it was to the final product. I assumed it was the device as it would ship but I cannot say for certain. I didn't ask and he didn't say. Perhaps this accounts for the different impression that I got to I than Freudling. As I don't think it will go on sale in the UK, I may never know.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Nokia could still go either way.

They could go either way, granted, but I think they're a lumbering giant at this point. Given how backwards they let themselves get, and their dedication to an inferior platform now, it's going to be hard to come back.

[freudling]

Rumors a while back on Apple's iPhone 5 curved glass:

RUMOR: Apple to debut first curved-glass Multi-Touch Retina display with iPhone 5 – MacDailyNews - Welcome Home

If the iPhone gets it, the iPod Touch should get it too, and so should the iPad 3. I think all these latter might get unibody cases and curved glass.

[LegendaryPinkOx]

Curved glass would be neat but I'm very concerned for it's structural resilience.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

If the iPhone gets it, the iPod Touch should get it too, and so should the iPad 3. I think all these latter might get unibody cases and curved glass.

The iPads already have unibodies. Curved glass on something that size would be tremendously impractical, unless it were so shallow as to make no difference.

[TETENAL]

The N9 won't go on sale.

Nokia confirms no N9 for UK either - SlashGear

Nokia has confirmed that it has no current plans to offer the N9 smartphone in the UK, following news yesterday that the MeeGo handset would not be getting an official US release either. The Finnish company told paidContent that, while Nokia acknowledged “the very positive reception” the N9 received, it nonetheless had no intention of actually putting it on sale.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The iPads already have unibodies. Curved glass on something that size would be tremendously impractical, unless it were so shallow as to make no difference.

You, and others, don't understand the design. The glass doesn't stretch over the sides. It simply curves and contours to "dissolve out" to the edges. However, there's a bit of space between the glass and where the sides of the device curve. The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 gives an idea on this.

If you drop it, it'll hit the side, not the glass. The whole approach and design is better than what Apple is doing, since their glass on the iPhone 4 is sharp edged and extends right out to the edge. Smashed glass on an iPhone is pretty common as we are all aware.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

You, and others, don't understand the design. The glass doesn't stretch over the sides. It simply curves and contours to "dissolve out" to the edges. However, there's a bit of space between the glass and where the sides of the device curve. The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 gives an idea on this.

If you drop it, it'll hit the side, not the glass. The whole approach and design is better than what Apple is doing, since their glass on the iPhone 4 is sharp edged and extends right out to the edge. Smashed glass on an iPhone is pretty common as we are all aware.

I understand the design, and I understand "unibody". I don't understand you.

The Galaxy is using the same basic design as the iPad - a shell that comes up around the sides, filled in the middle with a glass surface. The edge is aluminum, same on iPad and Galaxy.

That is what I wanted to point out. I did not mention the iPhone or the iPod touch for a rather good reason: I had nothing to add there.

I completely fail to see how curved glass would benefit something the size of an iPad. The Galaxy Tab 10.1 has a completely flat surface.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

The N9 won't go on sale.

Nokia confirms no N9 for UK either - SlashGear

Translation: the hardware was nice, but way too expensive.
To compete in the market, Nokia would have to sell it at a loss, or risk not finding buyers.

Still: it's good to see that Nokia and others continue to innovate. It's going to be aweful tought to beat Apple's pricing though. For most manufacturers, competing with Apple means accepting slim margins.
Apple has tons of room to go down in price, sarcificing some margin (and stock valuation), but killing others with pricing.

-t

[Salty]

That's actually the nicest thing for manufacturers fighting apple, they can compete on price. They can sell their android devices to the carriers for much less than what Apple is charging them. There's a reason Apple made 2/3rds of the money in the mobile handset market. They make tons of money on it because people want it. At this point the Android devs are selling more to the carriers than the customers.

[Spheric Harlot]

I don't know how well the Other brands can compete for smartphone prices (without building complete shit).

They certainly stand no chance for tablets and MacBook Air-class machines. Nobody can get anywhere *near* Apple's prices/margins in those categories.