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What do you pay for a haircut? (Page 3)
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$7-$11 depending where I am plus a $2 tip if it is good.
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Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -
You know I feel for you bro. But that's the problem of the tipping culture you live in.
Tipping is expected. Once tipping becomes part of your wage it is no longer a reward for good service. It is exploitation by your employer combined with guilt tripping customers.
Exactly. Relying on tipping so you staff can make a living wage skews the real cost of running a business and put the shortfall onto the customer. Not healthy at all.
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Oh, and about $50.00, excluding tip. Yes, I go to one of these trendy Aveda places on Queen Street, and yes I like it that way.
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Originally Posted by Mastrap
Exactly. Relying on tipping so you staff can make a living wage skews the real cost of running a business and put the shortfall onto the customer. Not healthy at all.
I think it's just a symptom of businesses' natural desire to misrepresent the price of something as cheaper than it actually is.
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Banned
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2 bits.
I get a shave too.
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Originally Posted by Railroader
2 bits.
I get a shave too.
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Last edited by Laminar; Sep 4, 2008 at 07:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -
You know I feel for you bro. But that's the problem of the tipping culture you live in.
Tipping is expected. Once tipping becomes part of your wage it is no longer a reward for good service. It is exploitation by your employer combined with guilt tripping customers.
Not healthy.
It's not my current employer, or even my past employers. It's the entire country. That said, I find it strange how the whole world knows this goes down in the U.S., yet so many foreign tourists, when they're here, like to act like they don't know. I work with a highly trained staff of waiters.
I tip 15% or so when service sucks, 20-25% when service is good or great. Is there no incentive for waiters in Italy or Paris to give good service? There is here, it's CASH.
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Originally Posted by Mastrap
Oh, and about $50.00, excluding tip.
hot damn.
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Again, you have it the other way around: Tipping is the incentive for good service [outside the US] and so it should be. When it is expected, it is much less of an incentive.
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I hear stories of waiters scoffing at people leaving a tip abroad. As if it's an insult. I guess that's not everywhere. Anyhow, I don't mean to be filling this thread with this discussion. Come over, I'll cut your hair for free. Gratuity not included!
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I have been chased out of a restaurant in China because the waitress thought I had left my money behind. Tipping in China does not happen, please don't anyone start.
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$12 (plus $3 tip) mostly. I just go to the barber shop. But, I have, on a couple occasions spent upwards of $150 at this upscale barber shop (The Shave, Beverly Hils), but that includes a 45 minute straight razor shave (and champagne). Very nice place, everyone should go at least once.
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$20-30. Tip 20%-30%.
Any of you who are just shaving it (the millenium combover) and have a full head of hair should be ashamed. There are guys out there who would kill for a head of hair. I should know. I'm not only their president, I'm also a client.
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I do it myself, I can't remember the last time I paid for a haircut. I learned to cut it myself. This way I can do it how I want, instead of paying a buttload to have someone else mess it up. I feel better if I mess up because I don't have to pay for it
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Originally Posted by moonmonkey
I have been chased out of a restaurant in China because the waitress thought I had left my money behind. Tipping in China does not happen, please don't anyone start.
Exactly.
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***
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1,500Â¥ for a shave and a haircut. No tip (love Japan).
mmmm... pampered...
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by moonmonkey
I have been chased out of a restaurant in China because the waitress thought I had left my money behind. Tipping in China does not happen, please don't anyone start.
Too late. Tips are now not unheard of in the main Chinese cities, because of the tourists. They don't expect it, but I'm told they'll sometimes accept it.
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China = no tip.
U.S. = please tip.
When in Rome.
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I think the most I ever paid for a haircut was $275, including funky coloring, and administered by a hot girl dressed in a florescent plaid green miniskirt and florescent orange leggings. Subsequent cuts were $150. But this was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
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A 30% tip is outrageous. Really, that had better be the best service on the planet.
Of course, the problem is, as soon as more people start doing that, it becomes a norm that is expected, and removes the incentive for good service.
A tip is not your wage. 15% is not a 'standard, to be expected' - it's a tip, a bonus, a gift. It's a reward for good service. 15% is a good tip. 20% is fantastic, and should be as rare as it is to receive fantastic service.
There should be no guilt associated with tipping less - a bonus on top of wage is still a bonus. There is, because people have developed a sense of entitlement, and even take offense at a gift that is less than they have come to expect.
Read the consumerist.com, you'll hear stories of servers spitting in food and other abuses because servers believe they aren't being tipped enough - when they haven't learned that no one owes them anything above the costs on the bill.
At the same time, employers must not count upon tips to fill out the salary the job market would otherwise be demanding. The way to change this is for servers to insist on salaries that don't take tips into account.
Of course, it will never happen as long as folks keep turning gifts (tips) into expectations, and keep inflating the amounts even as prices on the service itself also rise. Seriously, 30%? where does that stop, 40%? In a few years will it be 45 or 50?
I pay between 5 and 25 for a haircut, and tend to tip between 2 and 5 dollars. In years past, I may have paid as much as 40, but it's been years if I have.
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For restaurants in North America, I usually tip around 15%, but it ranges from 10% to 25%.
I'll tip 10% if the service isn't great.
I'll tip 25% if the service is very good, but only in cheaper restaurants. I think it's reasonable to tip $2.50 on a $10 meal for good service, but I think it's ludicrous to tip $50 on a $200 meal, no matter how good the service is.
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You'll find people who have or are working in the food service industry tend to tip their brethren more generously, as they know the job sucks.
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
You'll find people who have or are working in the food service industry tend to tip their brethren more generously, as they know the job sucks.
Yet some of these same people are perfectly happy not sharing their tips with the dishwashers, despite the fact that the dishwashers' job sucks way more.
BTW, I've worked in the food service industry. As far as I'm concerned, waiters and waitresses have a good thing going here. It takes little brains to be a waiter/waitress. The money isn't great, but the tips are essentially all under the table money, so they should consider themselves lucky. I don't know a single person who has done this job who reports his tips as income to the tax man.
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Dishwasher also gets paid more per hour than waitstaff. Like 3x more.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
Dishwasher also gets paid more per hour than waitstaff. Like 3x more.
Nope, not in many lower end restaurants. If you work say in a family restaurant chain, the pay scale is similar, but waiters/waitresses often get to keep all the tips.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Nope, not in most low end restaurants. If you work say in a family restaurant chain, the pay scale is similar, but waiters/waitresses get to keep all the tips.
I was working a low end restaurant.
Anyway, there's the argument of skilled and unskilled labor. The cooks have, well, cooking skill, and the waitstaff gets to deal with the delightful human element, but any schmuck can clean and stock the dishes. The dishwashers I knew did the job because they would never want to handle people (The smart ones would inevitably jump to line).
But let's talk numbers. Where I worked I was making less than $2.50 an hour, and the dishwasher was paid in excess of $6. Then they decided he was a luxury, fired him, and made the rest of the staff cover the dishwasher...
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
You'll find people who have or are working in the food service industry tend to tip their brethren more generously, as they know the job sucks.
And the base pay isn't spectacular.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
I was working a low end restaurant.
Anyway, there's the argument of skilled and unskilled labor. The cooks have, well, cooking skill, and the waitstaff gets to deal with the delightful human element, but any schmuck can clean and stock the dishes. The dishwashers I knew did the job because they would never want to handle people (The smart ones would inevitably jump to line).
But let's talk numbers. Where I worked I was making less than $2.50 an hour, and the dishwasher was paid in excess of $6. Then they decided he was a luxury, fired him, and made the rest of the staff cover the dishwasher...
It depends on where you work, and in which country or state.
Still, most dishwashers will make minimum wage, but most waiters/waitresses will end up getting significantly more than minimum wage, once tips are added in, but noting the fact that essentially none of them will ever declare all those tips as income.
Personally, I'd be perfectly happy if North America removed the tip-scheme completely, since it is so inequitable, and there is an air of entitlement that many waiters/waitresses have when some of them definitely don't deserve it.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Still, most dishwashers will make minimum wage, but most waiters/waitresses will end up getting significantly more than minimum wage, once tips are added in, but noting the fact that essentially none of them will ever declare all those tips as income.
Unless you're arguing that dishwashers do a job that is equally difficult/skilled/important, I don't see what's wrong with that. Each shift the waitstaff is gambling on the fact that they can recover their pay through tips/the quality of their service. A dishwasher's pay is guaranteed.
Now if the dishwasher goes out of his way to help the waitstaff then I think you tip them. But not for just doing their job.
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
Unless you're arguing that dishwashers do a job that is equally difficult/skilled/important, I don't see what's wrong with that. Each shift the waitstaff is gambling on the fact that they can recover their pay through tips/the quality of their service. A dishwasher's pay is guaranteed.
Now if the dishwasher goes out of his way to help the waitstaff then I think you tip them. But not for just doing their job.
A dishwasher's job is way, way harder than a waiter's/waitress's, at least in a low end restaurant. It's simply no comparison.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Nope, not in many lower end restaurants. If you work say in a family restaurant chain, the pay scale is similar, but waiters/waitresses often get to keep all the tips.
EVERY restaurant I know of, even mom and pop places (my brother was a cook and also a waiter in one for a few years) use the same pay scale as the rest of the nation. Minimum wage or more for hostesses, dishwashers, bussers, cooks, etc. Dakar is right.
Waiters in the U.S. currently get around $3.50/hr. Waiters generally tip out a percentage of their tips to bartenders + bussers + foodrunners. The end of the night in a restaurant for a waiter involves bus staff and foodrunners hounding them for money. Some restaurants may include tipping out the dishwasher or hostess too, although I've never had to do that.
Personally - I want to have good service, and want to know that when a waiter is smiling at me that it is genuine. That's why I tip a general 20% on meals. If I were outside of the states, I'd ask a local/check the internet for what the norm is wherever I am. Imagine.
And as for reporting your income, a waiter has a percentage of his (credit card)sales reported every year by the restaurant, by law. Cash often goes unreported.
A waiter usually gets no paychecks.
The end!
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Originally Posted by IceEnclosure
EVERY restaurant I know of, even mom and pop places (my brother was a cook and also a waiter in one for a few years) use the same pay scale as the rest of the nation. Minimum wage or more for hostesses, dishwashers, bussers, cooks, etc. Dakar is right.
Waiters in the U.S. currently get around $3.50/hr. Waiters generally tip out a percentage of their tips to bartenders + bussers + foodrunners. The end of the night in a restaurant for a waiter involves bus staff and foodrunners hounding them for money. Some restaurants may include tipping out the dishwasher or hostess too, although I've never had to do that.
Personally - I want to have good service, and want to know that when a waiter is smiling at me that it is genuine. That's why I tip a general 20% on meals. If I were outside of the states, I'd ask a local/check the internet for what the norm is wherever I am. Imagine.
And as for reporting your income, a waiter has a percentage of his (credit card)sales reported every year by the restaurant, by law. Cash often goes unreported.
A waiter usually gets no paychecks.
The end!
You are in Florida. Not every state is the same. And I live in Canada, where most chains pay the waiters/waitreses minimum wage. And you've just reiterated the fact that cash tips go unreported.
And... as I've said before, waiters/waitresses in most places make more than minimum wage... for what IMO is a much easier job than say dishwashing or cooking. Cooking requires a skill. Dishwashing requires standing in front of dirty dishes in a hot steamy corner. I agree that waiting tables can be hard work, but personally think it's obnoxious that so many waiters and waitresses believe they should be paid much more than cooks or dishwashers, which they essentially are once tips (and unreported income) are factored in.
This is exactly this sense of entitlement I'm talking about, and IMO much of it is undeserved.
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Originally Posted by Eug
A dishwasher's job is way, way harder than a waiter's/waitress's, at least in a low end restaurant. It's simply no comparison.
Spray plate. Place in try. Close machine. Restock.
What's so difficult about that?
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
Spray plate. Place in try. Close machine. Restock.
What's so difficult about that?
Write down order. Walk over to computer and type in order. Pour drinks and pick up food cook has finished preparing. Put on table.
What's so difficult about that?
Seriously, none of these jobs are rocket science. Arguably the one requiring the most skill is the cook.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Write down order. Walk over to computer and type in order. Pour drinks and pick up food cook has finished preparing. Put on table.
What's so difficult about that?
The human element. That's what the entire waitstaff position revolves around.
Have you been a waiter?
Originally Posted by Eug
Arguably the one requiring the most skill is the cook.
I might not disagree, either.
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
The human element. That's what the entire waitstaff position revolves around.
Have you been a waiter?
I've been a cook, a dishwasher, a busboy, a janitor, and have served tables unpaid but never as a paid waiter.
Out of the all of the above, I'd say dishwasher and cook were the hardest.
Have you been a dishwasher or a cook or a busboy?
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Originally Posted by Eug
I've been a cook, a dishwasher, a busboy, and have served tables unpaid but never as a paid waiter.
What's an unpaid waiter, someone getting screwed by management?
Originally Posted by Eug
Out of the all of the above, I'd say dishwasher and cook were the hardest.
I don't get what's so hard about being a dishwasher. It's by far the least appealing, but that in of itself doesn't make it hard.
Originally Posted by Eug
Have you been a dishwasher or a cook or a busboy?
Originally Posted by Dakar V
Then they decided he was a luxury, fired him, and made the rest of the staff cover the dishwasher...
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
What's an unpaid waiter, someone getting screwed by management?
Helping out at community sponsored events. No computer though. Just pen and paper.
Occasionally I've also helped out when a place is shortstaffed.
I don't get what's so hard about being a dishwasher. It's by far the least appealing, but that in of itself doesn't make it hard.
It's quite hard standing in the same steamy spot for 8-12 hours, when it's 30 degrees there. It's also quite hard getting crapped on all the time by obnoxious waiters. Plus it's one of the few jobs in a restaurant that requires comparatively heavy physical labour. Trays full of ceramics, metal, and glass are quite heavy.
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Originally Posted by Eug
It's quite hard standing in the same steamy spot for 8-12 hours, when it's 30 degrees there. It's also quite hard getting crapped on all the time by obnoxious waiters. Plus it's one of the few jobs in a restaurant that requires comparatively heavy physical labour. Trays full of ceramics, metal, and glass are quite heavy.
It's not a "hard" job, it just sucks.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by Laminar
It's not a "hard" job, it just sucks.
Well, that's arguably true. But IMO waiting tables isn't hard either. In fact IMO it's quite easy. It's only hard if you're disorganized.
ie. Waiting tables is a lot less unpleasant than washing dishes, but it doesn't take much more brainpower, and usually requires significantly less heavy lifting.
Neither job is "hard" by your definition, but for some reason waiters and waitresses usually feel they deserve significantly more pay. I happen to disagree.
*Caveat. I'm talking about your average diner type place. I don't think the same way about a high end restaurant where the wait staff actually has to have some real culinary knowledge.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Well, that's arguably true. But IMO waiting tables isn't hard either. In fact IMO it's quite easy. It's only hard if you're disorganized.
That depends on one's personality - if you're friendly and able to listen and communicate well, especially under stress, then of course it's easy. Waitstaff deal directly with customers and contribute directly to the customers' experience and the restaurant's bottom line. A dishwasher stands in the same place and does a repetitive, manual job. They're two different jobs for two different types of people.
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Back to the topic at hand.
I pay $14+2 tip to a small italian barber shop I've been going to since I was about 5. Approx. every 2-3 months.
And quite frankly, I thought THAT was costly.
You'd never see me pay above $20, even in Toronto or NY. I'd hunt down some small family owned shop.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by Laminar
That depends on one's personality - if you're friendly and able to listen and communicate well, especially under stress, then of course it's easy. Waitstaff deal directly with customers and contribute directly to the customers' experience and the restaurant's bottom line. A dishwasher stands in the same place and does a repetitive, manual job. They're two different jobs for two different types of people.
And having done both, I think the wait staff in diners and low end restaurants think too much of their "skills" and too little of their kitchen staff brethren. I guarantee you that 80% of the waitresses I've dealt with wouldn't survive a week as a dishwasher.
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Originally Posted by Laminar
It's not a "hard" job, it just sucks.
Bingo. I worked in a factory prior to being a waiter, and let me tell you, that sucked. It beat the hell out of me physically. But being a waiter beat the hell out of me mentally.
Originally Posted by Eug
ie. Waiting tables is a lot less unpleasant than washing dishes, but it doesn't take much more brainpower, and usually requires significantly less heavy lifting.
Neither job is "hard" by your definition, but for some reason waiters and waitresses usually feel they deserve significantly more pay. I happen to disagree.
Dealing with people sucks, plain and simple. Plus, like I said, your pay is never guaranteed.
Dishwashing is completely mindless.
If you're a dishwasher that thinks waiting tables is easy, I don't see what's stopping [a dishwasher] from joining the overpaid indignant waitstaff.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status:
Offline
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- On Topic -
Haircut: What's that?
- Restaurants -
Tips: No.
Incentive for waiting staff: If they displease me they generally get taken out back and whipped by their boss.
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status:
Offline
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
Dishwashing is completely mindless.
If you're a dishwasher that thinks waiting tables is easy, I don't see what's stopping [a dishwasher] from joining the overpaid indignant waitstaff.
That's what happens. The dishwashers quit and do something else. So you get a whole bunch of immigrants doing crap jobs like this because the locals don't want to do it. However, the immigrants get paid crap, because the restaurant managers won't hire an ugly guy with a strong accent to wait tables.
Anyways, for a haircut, I also think the tip shouldn't be a requirement. For haircuts the pay is very different from US waiters, but the same tip is felt to be an entitlement. Why, I dunno. But it is.
I'd rather just have the price raised a couple of bux and forget about the tip. If it's good service, the customer will come back, and may even request the same hairdresser. If it's bad service, the customer will simply go to another salon/barber shop.
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Status:
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I think Dakar is hitting it spot on.
Dealing with people can suck. Dishes don't talk **** to you(though a chef will!). They don't snap their fingers at you. They don't bring your income down because they chose to pay you less(like a spiteful guest/customer could).
I quite enjoy my job when it's hitting on all cylinders. Though, don't get me started about the past couple of weeks with all this hurricane wind crap going on.
Dishwashing is completely mindless. Serving 40 people with 3 waiters and 4 courses with cake cutting and polished-glass wine service isn't quite. It's certainly not installing printers for rocket scientists, but it isn't quite mindless. At the very least, it requires personality.
*oh, she's also a hair cutting person. (to keep it on topic)
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ice
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