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The new iPad (Page 8)
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lpkmckenna
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Mar 31, 2012, 09:05 PM
 
This thread is filled with crazy people.
     
freudling
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Apr 1, 2012, 03:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
This thread is filled with crazy people.
There certainly are.

Anyway, I was reading through Amazon... iPad 3 reviews. This one hit home for me. I'm seeing several of these reviews complaining about weight and thinness.

"I've been a big iPad fan and was waiting anxiously for the third generation to come out. I bought the original iPad, and when the 2 came out, I happily sold the 1 and upgraded. I was thrilled with the thinner, lighter and improved iPad 2. So naturally, when word came out that the third one was about to be released in March 2012, I was right on board to buy one. Sold my 2 and preordered the 3 from Apple the day it was released.

I was hoping the third gen wouldn't be noticibly thicker and heavier than the 2, but unfortunately it was. I could definitely tell the difference when reading ebooks, which I do a lot. I couldn't really tell any difference between the speed and clarity of the 3, but to be fair, I didn't compare the two models side by side. I've no doubt the 3 is superior in this regard. I don't use the cameras, so don't care about this since I have a very nice digital camera for that.

The one thing about the third generation iPad that really bothered me was the heat issue. Shortly after receiving it, I was reading an ebook and noticed the left side was warm. Not hot, but definitely warm enough for me to notice it. This reminded me of laptops I've had that have overheated and shut down, and here I was only reading a book. My iPad 2 never had this problem and I used it a lot. I also had some difficulty backing up the 3 to the cloud, again, something that wasn't ever a problem with the 2.

After reading some reviews of others experiencing the heating problem with the latest iPad, and really missing the thinner and lighter iPad 2 , I decided to return the iPad 3 to my local Apple store and buy a new iPad 2. They had no problem taking it back and I was glad to see the 2 had come down in price. When the sales associate asked me why I was returning the 3, I told him about the heat problem. He didn't seem surprised and said it was because the 3 has a larger battery.

The third gen has a faster CPU and retina dsplay, but I never thought the 2 had any problems with speed, and the clarity of the display has always seemed fine to me. But I'm certainly no expert. I'm very happy I made the exchange and enjoying using my iPad 2 again. For my uses--books, internet, email and games, the cooler, thinner and lighter iPad 2 is a better choice for me.

By the way, I just want to add that I think it's unfair to compare the Kindle Fire and Nook to the iPad. These devices are just ebook readers and they're fine for that--I've tried them both. Rather like saying, okay, you can buy this Mercedes or you can get the Volkswagen. Once you've used an iPad, you're totally spoiled and trying to browse the Internet with a Kindle or Nook is an exercise in frustration after using an iPad."
     
freudling
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Apr 1, 2012, 03:50 AM
 
Ahhhhhhhhh. I can't get the Asus Prime out of my mind. I might return my iPad and get one.

Couple of good comparisons:

Apple iPad 3 Vs Asus Transformer Prime: specs showdown | Northern Voices Online: NVO News Blog

Apple iPad 3 vs Asus Transformer Prime
     
turtle777
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Apr 1, 2012, 04:06 AM
 
I seriously don't see why anyone would pick the Asus, except if you just loooovvveee Android.

Price is the same, so with the iPad, you get the retina display for free.

-t
     
ghporter
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Apr 1, 2012, 08:56 AM
 
My brother-in-law bought an Asus tablet for a couple of reasons. The one he got was only about $200 on sale, and it has an SD card slot so he can put his movies on external media and not use the limited internal storage for them. He travels and he likes to have his choice of movies on hand, as opposed to what the hotel offers. He was specifically NOT looking for an iPad competitor, just a tablet for movies and a few books.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
freudling
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Apr 1, 2012, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I seriously don't see why anyone would pick the Asus, except if you just loooovvveee Android.

Price is the same, so with the iPad, you get the retina display for free.

-t
Have you read this thread? The Asus is 'the' iPad competitor. It's that good. I don't love Android but the Asus Transformer Prime is so compelling it's tempting. Significantly lighter and thinner than the iPad 3 with better battery life and a larger screen with an amazing non Retina screen. The screen is that good even though it's lower res than the Retina. It's the fastest Android tablet with Tegra Quad Core and one of the only tablets to truly run Ice Cream Sandwich. When we picked one up last week for our Android developer, we keep,finding ourselves asking to "see" the Prime in the office. Not only is it a real performer, it looks and feels gorgeous.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Apr 1, 2012, 11:59 AM
 
Apparently, it's so compelling that a full 2,000 people felt compelled to preorder it.
     
Wiskedjak
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Apr 1, 2012, 12:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Have you read this thread? The Asus is 'the' iPad competitor. It's that good.
In *your* humble opinion.
     
freudling
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Apr 1, 2012, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Apparently, it's so compelling that a full 2,000 people felt compelled to preorder it.
I don't care if they only had 1 pre order. Doesn't change my opinion of it. Having used it now for several hours, it's the best tablet besides the iPad I've ever used.
     
Wiskedjak
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Apr 1, 2012, 01:54 PM
 
At 2000 pre-orders, the Asus is *the* iPad competitor.
At 5,000,000 shipped units, the Galaxy Note is chump change.
At 7,500,000 estimated sales for Kindle Fire and Nook, it's clear that nobody is interested in 7" tablets.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Apr 1, 2012, 02:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
At 2000 pre-orders, the Asus is *the* iPad competitor.
At 5,000,000 shipped units, the Galaxy Note is chump change.
At 7,500,000 estimated sales for Kindle Fire and Nook, it's clear that nobody is interested in 7" tablets.
Cannot tell if sarcasm, where.

But regarding the Kindle Fire: taking a $x00 product and selling it at a loss (or zero profit) will sell some numbers; HP found that out with the Playbook, too.

That doesn't mean that the product category itself is per se desirable, when priced at a sustainable level.
     
Wiskedjak
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Apr 1, 2012, 02:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Cannot tell if sarcasm, where.

But regarding the Kindle Fire: taking a $x00 product and selling it at a loss (or zero profit) will sell some numbers; HP found that out with the Playbook, too.

That doesn't mean that the product category itself is per se desirable, when priced at a sustainable level.
Yes, sarcasm.

As for the Fire/Playbook scenario comparison. I'm aware that price is playing a big role here ... though the Fire isn't quite being fire-sold in the same way as the HP Touchpad (which I assume you meant rather than Playbook). The Touchpad had high-end tech inside and was being cleared out at roughly 1/3 the cost to manufacture; at $99 it was a smokin' deal. The Fire is being sold just below cost, a situation which will likely shift as manufacturing costs drop.
     
freudling
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Apr 1, 2012, 02:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
At 2000 pre-orders, the Asus is *the* iPad competitor.
At 5,000,000 shipped units, the Galaxy Note is chump change.
At 7,500,000 estimated sales for Kindle Fire and Nook, it's clear that nobody is interested in 7" tablets.
How many Prime units have been sold? Answer: you don't know.

In my opinion, based on every tablet I've tested and someone who works with tablets by day. The Prime is the first true iPad competitor. One of the reasons I say that is because we find ourselves compelled to want to use it. And the reason we want to use it is because of how polished and fast it is. Most other tablets are junk.

7" market. You oversimplify this. The problem is not just the fact that 7" tablets are tweeners, but that there's hardly any money to be made with them. The data shows this and our experience does as well. App developers struggle to make money with 7" tablets because the customer base, the paying customer base, isn't there. One of the reasons is because of the limitations of the device over larger screened tablets that allow developers to do a lot more. They just polarize their efforts into smartphones and larger tablets.

When developing for 7" tablets, you quickly realize how little they offer over a smartphone and for most things it becomes not worth the time and money to pump development into them.

In other words, quoting products "shipped" says nothing about the viability of a product/category. It doesn't say anything about actual customer sell through, how much money developers are making, how profitable the product is, etc. We're not putting much into 7"ers for all these reasons and more.

So you can continue to argue and post stuff you find on the Web. If you develop for this stuff and spend money buying the latest research you'd also realize how nobody is really making any money from tweeners and that they're pretty much a deadend, non-sustainable enterprise.

eInk? Different story. Smaller, lighter... That's the ticket for eInk. The customer base here are older, retired people reading novels and middle-aged Americans vacationing in Mexico. This won't change.

What's going to happen over the next 4 years is that the 10" tablet will become very thin and light with a reduced bezel and super high Res AMOLED screen with deep color saturation and anti reflective gorilla glass. This will effectively kill the tweeners because the divide of thin and light and small will be significantly reduced.

The way to this is with Gorilla V. 5 and nano batteries. A123 is one source. The glass is the heaviest component along with the battery.
( Last edited by freudling; Apr 1, 2012 at 02:58 PM. )
     
SierraDragon
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Apr 1, 2012, 04:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Most other tablets are junk.
Correct. This is a key point, and must constantly be considered when evaluating the potential of the 3.75" - 10" market space.

The problem is not just the fact that 7" tablets are tweeners...
Again, you are being very specific at ~7" color while the 3.75" - 10" range is the market space I refer to. 7" color may or may not be appropriate for Apple's next iPad variant.

...there's hardly any money to be made with them. The data shows this and our experience does as well.
I refer back to your true statement "Most other tablets are junk." The many sales to midsize prove the demand to a large extent. There is plenty of opportunity for a good-quality good-value midsize idevice.

App developers struggle to make money with 7" tablets because the customer base, the paying customer base, isn't there.
That statement makes no sense to me. Those of us using high-level developer tools really do not have that much difficulty including another size in the process. For a fairly small amount of work we can consider midsize as a market space once Apple provides the hardware.

One of the reasons is because of the limitations of the device over larger screened tablets that allow developers to do a lot more. They just polarize their efforts into smartphones and larger tablets.
Obviously there are pros and cons to large versus small. And in the iOS world today that polarizes to 3.75" and 9.75" sizes. IMO 3.75-9.75 is too large a gap because there is plenty to do in between those 2 sizes.

Apple must address that large gap, either by adding a larger iPhone/iPod, smaller iPad or some combination thereof.

When developing for 7" tablets, you quickly realize how little they offer over a smartphone and for most things it becomes not worth the time and money to pump development into them.
Actually that is not true if you talk only of Apple, because Apple only offers the relatively small 3.75" phone. Apple's competitors have 5" phones available which makes your conclusion much more true. However in this thread we are talking about Apple idevices.

If you develop for this stuff and spend money buying the latest research you'd also realize how nobody is really making any money from tweeners and that they're pretty much a deadend, non-sustainable enterprise.
That statement depends on a) the fact that as you said, most other tablets are junk and b) your tight tweener definition. But we are looking at the full 3.75" - 10" color-b/w range. Consider a quality iOS product in the full 3.75" - 10" color-b/w range and IMO the opportunity is there.

What's going to happen over the next 4 years is that the 10" tablet will become very thin and light with a reduced bezel and super high Res AMOLED screen with deep color saturation and anti reflective gorilla glass. This will effectively kill the tweeners because the divide of thin and light and small will be significantly reduced.
Actually midsize (>3.75 but <9.75) will still be midsize, but I fully agree that tech changes will benefit larger sizes the most. We might however find lack of rigidity becoming an issue in design of larger size idevices.

-Allen
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Apr 1, 2012 at 04:35 PM. )
     
Spheric Harlot
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Apr 1, 2012, 04:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
Apple must address that large gap, either by adding a larger iPhone/iPod, smaller iPad or some combination thereof.
If Apple had done all the things random and not-so-random people on the internet, in the Press, and elsewhere, claimed they "MUST" do, they would absolutely certainly be completely out of business for a while, now.
     
SierraDragon
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Apr 1, 2012, 04:23 PM
 
No one can disagree with that statement. However note that Apple also did do very successful things that some folks had suggested.

BTW the reason that I for one invest time in such discussion is because I learn from it and the dicussion piques my thinking.

-Allen
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Apr 1, 2012 at 04:32 PM. )
     
freudling
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Apr 1, 2012, 05:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post

Again, you are being very specific at ~7" color while the 3.75" - 10" range is the market space I refer to. 7" color may or may not be appropriate for Apple's next iPad variant.
Sort of getting lost in your post. The thing to look at is, why would anyone need a "tablet" when they have such a high res, capable smartphone? The only reason is if it is that much of a compelling jump. Jobs made this clear and I agree with him.



Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
I refer back to your true statement "Most other tablets are junk." The many sales to midsize prove the demand to a large extent. There is plenty of opportunity for a good-quality good-value midsize idevice.
What sales? What am I missing? Where are you getting your data from? The only hard sell through numbers we've been able to get are from paid for reports. The numbers are really low. Most companies don't report these granular numbers. I'm curious about your data sources. PM me if it's paid for stuff. The other metric is Internet share, and the tweeners represent a very small slice. I think it's less than 2% of global mobile Web traffic.

Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
That statement makes no sense to me. Those of us using high-level developer tools really do not have that much difficulty including another size in the process. For a fairly small amount of work we can consider midsize as a market space once Apple provides the hardware.
Say what? Are you really developing for 7"? If you are, this is a whole other conversion. You could fill a book about the problems developing for them. The reason is that their tweeners. Odd beasts that demand completely different interfaces. The odd thing can be good on them but most not.

Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
Apple must address that large gap, either by adding a larger iPhone/iPod, smaller iPad or some combination thereof.
This "gap" is your own logical construction. There is no gap. All there is is a world of people that businesses cater to. Apple provides these humans with tools. The best tools win out. The ones that are the most functional and useful. 7" tablets are really bad at a lot of things. They are good as novel readers and video devices though. But so are smartphones and they're way more portable and easier to use.
     
Wiskedjak
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Apr 1, 2012, 06:45 PM
 
We've been designing software for multiple screen sizes and resolutions for a few decades now. Responsive web paradigms allow even websites to adjust to as many screen sizes and resolutions as a designer could want. The only argument to support the statement of "Odd beasts that demand completely different interfaces" is to let our designers and developers be lazy.
     
freudling
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Apr 1, 2012, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
We've been designing software for multiple screen sizes and resolutions for a few decades now. Responsive web paradigms allow even websites to adjust to as many screen sizes and resolutions as a designer could want. The only argument to support the statement of "Odd beasts that demand completely different interfaces" is to let our designers and developers be lazy.
Our current challenge right now is implementing responsive Web design. If you're going to fling that into this conversation, then you also have to discuss "degradation". How does content degrade? The problem is, responsive design starts to looks messed up the smaller you go. It degrades on a predictive path to a point where the layout, even though it has responded, degrades too much. Then you start getting into jquery and further yet algorithms and modeling to try and solve it and it gets complicated.
     
SierraDragon
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Apr 1, 2012, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
...why would anyone need a "tablet" when they have such a high res, capable smartphone?
Because 3.75" is just too small and 9.75" is just too big for many applications. Something needs to happen in between.

-Allen
     
freudling
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Apr 1, 2012, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
Because 3.75" is just too small and 9.75" is just too big for many applications. Something needs to happen in between.

-Allen
You've sure nailed it. Apple isn't widely successful with 2 sizes: 3.5" (it's not 3.75" as you keep saying) and 9.7". They "must" offer things in between. You've got my vote for the next CEO of Apple.
     
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Apr 1, 2012, 10:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Anyway, I was reading through Amazon... iPad 3 reviews. This one hit home for me. I'm seeing several of these reviews complaining about weight and thinness.
...
I was hoping the third gen wouldn't be noticibly thicker and heavier than the 2, but unfortunately it was. I could definitely tell the difference when reading ebooks, which I do a lot. I couldn't really tell any difference between the speed and clarity of the 3, but to be fair, I didn't compare the two models side by side.
Love it. They can "definitely tell the difference" between 1.5 millimetres thicker and 51 grams heavier, but they can't "really tell any difference" with the new Retina display.

Talk about picking the Rain Man of iPads....
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
SierraDragon
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Apr 2, 2012, 12:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
You've sure nailed it. Apple isn't widely successful with 2 sizes: 3.5" (it's not 3.75" as you keep saying) and 9.7". They "must" offer things in between. You've got my vote for the next CEO of Apple.
Apple was wildly successful with just one iPod size, and Ford was wildly successful with just one model. That did not mean either firm stopped growing the product lines with the market opportunities. The idea that Apple will stop at a total of one phone size and one tablet size is quaint.

-Allen
     
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Apr 2, 2012, 12:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Love it. They can "definitely tell the difference" between 1.5 millimetres thicker and 51 grams heavier, but they can't "really tell any difference" with the new Retina display.

Talk about picking the Rain Man of iPads....
Be fair now, maybe the reviewer was seriously visually impaired...

lol
     
freudling
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Apr 2, 2012, 12:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
Apple was wildly successful with just one iPod size, and Ford was wildly successful with just one model. That did not mean either firm stopped growing the product lines with the market opportunities. The idea that Apple will stop at a total of one phone size and one tablet size is quaint.

-Allen
I hate to say this but I'm sort of going to ignore you for the rest of the time.
     
freudling
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Apr 2, 2012, 12:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
We've been designing software for multiple screen sizes and resolutions for a few decades now. Responsive web paradigms allow even websites to adjust to as many screen sizes and resolutions as a designer could want. The only argument to support the statement of "Odd beasts that demand completely different interfaces" is to let our designers and developers be lazy.
What are you guys doing for responsive layouts? We're struggling with CSS3, HTML-5, and Javascript. Some success but we're trying to push the envelope.
     
Wiskedjak
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Apr 2, 2012, 12:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
There certainly are.

Anyway, I was reading through Amazon... iPad 3 reviews.
Haven't you been telling us that the tablet reviews on Amazon are all fixed? How do you know that Amazon isn't planting poor iPad reviews in order to move more Fires?

(in other words, it's interesting how you'll reference a source of info when it supports your opinion, but discredit that same source when it contradicts you're opinion)
     
freudling
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Apr 2, 2012, 12:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Love it. They can "definitely tell the difference" between 1.5 millimetres thicker and 51 grams heavier, but they can't "really tell any difference" with the new Retina display.

Talk about picking the Rain Man of iPads....
I can tell that it's heavier and thicker, but I have to look closely to tell the difference in the screen as well. It's not immediately apparent unless you focus for a few seconds. We have both units in the office, and even the other developers have to look for a few seconds to see the difference. There certainly is a difference once the eyes focus.
     
freudling
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Apr 2, 2012, 12:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Haven't you been telling us that the tablet reviews on Amazon are all fixed? How do you know that Amazon isn't planting poor iPad reviews in order to move more Fires?
They very well could, but since the number of ratings is so low (a mere 47 at the time of this writing), it seems legitimate.

Weird that so few ratings pop up on a device that sold millions in its first weekend. The Fire has 16,000 reviews. Cough cough.

Here's reality:

The Verge loves the new iPad 3.

9to5Mac, the biggest Apple fanboys, is not that happy with it.

I hate to say this, but overall, I am not gaga for this new iPad. If the iPad 2 had not set an incredibly high bar, this would have blown my mind. But, I have used a lighter iPad that runs cooler and charges quicker...

David Pogue:

Third, it incorporated a fatter, heavier battery. The new iPad is one millimeter thicker, and 1.8 ounces heavier, than the iPad 2. It’s a very slight difference, but fingers used to handling the old iPad will feel it, and that’s too bad.

Snippets from around the Web:

The iPad 3 feels very noticeably heavy and I cannot imagine many people wanting to hold it with one hand for too long. I compared it with my colleagues 64GB 3G iPad 2 and the difference was definitely there, like holding a dry and a we sock.

But it's worth it for the screen.


When I opened it next to my iPad 2 the biggest thing that stuck out was the weight and how thick it was. Don't get me wrong I love it, but it feels heavy compared.

We're all imagining it aren't we!!!
     
Wiskedjak
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Apr 2, 2012, 08:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
They very well could, but since the number of ratings is so low (a mere 47 at the time of this writing), it seems legitimate.

Weird that so few ratings pop up on a device that sold millions in its first weekend. The Fire has 16,000 reviews. Cough cough.
With so few reviews relative to the Fire, the size and weight concerns must not be that significant, then ...
     
SierraDragon
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Apr 2, 2012, 10:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Haven't you been telling us that the tablet reviews on Amazon are all fixed? How do you know that Amazon isn't planting poor iPad reviews in order to move more Fires?

(in other words, it's interesting how you'll reference a source of info when it supports your opinion, but discredit that same source when it contradicts you're opinion)
In engineering we call it the Hershey factor. Fudge data to suit your premise. It is suicidal in product development planning...

-Allen
     
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Apr 2, 2012, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Weird that so few ratings pop up on a device that sold millions in its first weekend. The Fire has 16,000 reviews. Cough cough.
Most Fires are sold at Amazon. Most iPads are not.
     
freudling
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Apr 2, 2012, 01:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Most Fires are sold at Amazon. Most iPads are not.
How many iPads have been sold on Amazon? How many Fires? You don't know the answer. Therefore, you can't make the claim that more Fires sell on Amazon than iPads. Because of how dominant the iPad is in the market, even if only "some" iPads are sold on Amazon, and the rest elsewhere, this "some" may actually be more than the Fire.
     
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Apr 2, 2012, 02:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
How many iPads have been sold on Amazon? How many Fires? You don't know the answer. Therefore, you can't make the claim that more Fires sell on Amazon than iPads. Because of how dominant the iPad is in the market, even if only "some" iPads are sold on Amazon, and the rest elsewhere, this "some" may actually be more than the Fire.
But, you're making the same kind of assumption here as mduell, except you're making the assumption in a direction that suits your argument. You're assuming that more iPads sell on Amazon than Fires. It's reasonable to speculate this, but the fact is that *you don't know*. It be that hardly *any* are sold through Amazon, given how easy it is to get iPads from Apple's online store.
     
Wiskedjak
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Apr 2, 2012, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
What are you guys doing for responsive layouts? We're struggling with CSS3, HTML-5, and Javascript. Some success but we're trying to push the envelope.
We haven't done much there yet at all. By "we", I mean the entire software industry. Designing for multiple screen sizes and resolutions in nothing new; it's really only iOS where we've had the luxury of designing for only 2 screens. But, anyone doing any serious mobile software development must also consider Android, at which point you have to start considering what your designs will look like on multiple screen sizes and resolutions.

My reference to responsive design is really just to say that even the relatively design-static realm of web has started to respond to the needs of multiple screen sizes. We have a handful of web pages that are designed with 3 screen size bands in mind: 3-5 inches, 5-10 inches, 10+ inches (including iPad). Within each band, the design will respond with liquid layout; when the screen reaches one of the bands (ie: 10" to 5-10"), it will jump to the design for the next band.
     
freudling
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Apr 2, 2012, 07:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
But, you're making the same kind of assumption here as mduell, except you're making the assumption in a direction that suits your argument. You're assuming that more iPads sell on Amazon than Fires. It's reasonable to speculate this, but the fact is that *you don't know*. It be that hardly *any* are sold through Amazon, given how easy it is to get iPads from Apple's online store.
I am not assuming anything, really. I have no idea how many iPads are sold on Amazon compared to Fires. What I do know is that Amazon is a site of reviews. Just because you review something doesn't mean you've bought it there. To me it's bizarre how many reviews the Fire has. It's insane. 16,000? Must be a record. I wonder what products have more reviews other than other Kindles.
     
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Apr 5, 2012, 10:56 AM
 
9to5Mac.com has somehow captured Apple internal docs on the wifi issue:

Apple investigating new iPad WiFi issues, tells AppleCare to replace affected units | 9to5Mac | Apple Intelligence

The poor wifi reception thread in Apple discussions is up to 49 pages

https://discussions.apple.com/thread...t=720&tstart=0
     
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Apr 5, 2012, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
But regarding the Kindle Fire: taking a $x00 product and selling it at a loss (or zero profit) will sell some numbers; HP found that out with the Playbook, too.

That doesn't mean that the product category itself is per se desirable, when priced at a sustainable level.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're making a small profit on the Fire now. You can actually get single-core ARM Cortex A8 7" ICS tablets with 1080p H.264 decode and external flash media support for $130 now at retail, including capacitive screen and profit. Swap in a better screen, and you could still sell it for $150 and make profit off of it. Add in a dual-core CPU, and again you can sell it for a profit at $200. This will only get easier in late 2012, since very inexpensive dual-core CPUs will be available, with good performance (similar to the iPad 2's A5).

This is for fully approved ICS tablets with full access to the Google Play store.

I think Amazon really chose their price point well. A $200 7" tablet isn't going to make them rich off hardware sales, but it isn't going to cause them to bleed money either in the long run.

P.S. HP doesn't sell the Playbook.
( Last edited by Eug; Apr 5, 2012 at 02:00 PM. )
     
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Apr 5, 2012, 02:06 PM
 
John Gruber: Apple 'noodling with' 7.85-inch iPad prototype.

Exactly what I said all along.
     
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Apr 5, 2012, 02:32 PM
 
I betcha they've been "noodling" with something like that for years, but maybe they're now getting more serious about it, as the milking of the 10" market is already in full swing.
     
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Apr 5, 2012, 03:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
John Gruber: Apple 'noodling with' 7.85-inch iPad prototype.

Exactly what I said all along.
Apple has a gazillion prototypes at any one time. This is nothing new, at all. They don't use but a fraction that gets further worked and then one final gets pushed out as a product.
     
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Apr 5, 2012, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Apple has a gazillion prototypes at any one time. This is nothing new, at all. They don't use but a fraction that gets further worked and then one final gets pushed out as a product.
Like the 12" PowerBook.

Like the Mac mini.

Like the iPod shuffle.

Like the MacBook Air.

These are all products that some Apple fanbois said would never appear, because they couldn't think outside the existing Apple box.
     
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Apr 5, 2012, 06:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Like the 12" PowerBook.

Like the Mac mini.

Like the iPod shuffle.

Like the MacBook Air.

These are all products that some Apple fanbois said would never appear, because they couldn't think outside the existing Apple box.
Apple has a gazillion prototypes. They say no to 99% of them. I'm not saying anything isn't possible. But posting a link about yet another rumour about Apple having a 7.whatever" tablet is tiresome and in no way implies they're launching it as a product. We've been seeing this for years. Same old recycled stuff.
     
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Apr 6, 2012, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Like the 12" PowerBook.

Like the Mac mini.

Like the iPod shuffle.

Like the MacBook Air.

These are all products that some Apple fanbois said would never appear, because they couldn't think outside the existing Apple box.
Apple has surprised us a few times, but those 4 are not particularly good examples. The AIr in particular is exactly what I'd expect Apple to try - sort of a portable Cube, except successful. The flash-based nano is the one iPod that they sort of poo-pooed. If you want an example that the faithful laughed at for years, there is a much better example: the Intel switch.

7.85" is probably as small as they could make it. As has been noted before, it would be a ppi equal to the original iPhone at the same resolution as the original iPad, and a ppi equal to the iPhone 4 if they use the double resolution of the newest iPad, but that only works if you hold it at the same distance as you do the iPhone. I'd rather they made something just the other side of 8".
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Apr 6, 2012, 02:39 PM
 
The Air in particular is exactly what I'd expected Apple to try too, but a LOT of people laughed at the idea. Same goes for the 12" PowerBook, and the Mac mini. (Actually for the Mac mini I was hoping at the time for something a bit bigger, like the Cube.)

BTW, for the 12" PowerBook, I was fooled, too. I was desperately hoping for one... but then Apple released the 15" SuperDrive TiBook. I figured I couldn't wait another year for the 12" PowerBook so I bought the 15".

Then 2 months later Apple released the 12" PowerBook.
     
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Apr 6, 2012, 09:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
The Air in particular is exactly what I'd expected Apple to try too, but a LOT of people laughed at the idea. Same goes for the 12" PowerBook, and the Mac mini. (Actually for the Mac mini I was hoping at the time for something a bit bigger, like the Cube.)

BTW, for the 12" PowerBook, I was fooled, too. I was desperately hoping for one... but then Apple released the 15" SuperDrive TiBook. I figured I couldn't wait another year for the 12" PowerBook so I bought the 15".

Then 2 months later Apple released the 12" PowerBook.
The 12" PowerBook was predictable. Apple already had the form factor in the market and was successful with it: the dual USB iBook.
     
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Apr 6, 2012, 11:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The 12" PowerBook was predictable. Apple already had the form factor in the market and was successful with it: the dual USB iBook.
The existence of the 12" iBook was precisely why so many Mac fanbois were adamant Apple wouldn't release a 12" PowerBook. Supposedly 12" was too small for real pro use, and Apple had already given us its opinion on the subject by only allowing a consumer model in that size.

You see, people repeatedly come up with various reasons why a certain model class won't happen, and seem to be utterly convinced of this because Apple hasn't released it... until Apple releases it.
     
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Apr 7, 2012, 04:15 AM
 
Odd. I remember nothing of such adamant assertions that Apple would not release a 12" PowerBook.

I don't think there was much discussion back then, at all.

I do remember drooling over the chiclet iBook (my then-girlfriend bought one immediately when it came out) and repeatedly saying that I'd buy one the second they put out a PowerBook in that form factor (which I did).
     
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Apr 7, 2012, 05:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
The existence of the 12" iBook was precisely why so many Mac fanbois were adamant Apple wouldn't release a 12" PowerBook. Supposedly 12" was too small for real pro use, and Apple had already given us its opinion on the subject by only allowing a consumer model in that size.

You see, people repeatedly come up with various reasons why a certain model class won't happen, and seem to be utterly convinced of this because Apple hasn't released it... until Apple releases it.
I don't recall much discussion at all either about people believing Apple wouldn't release a 12" PowerBook. They had a nice runway to it with the iBook Dual USB that was wildly successful for the couple years leading up to the PB 12".

Regardless, I don't really care about any of this stuff. 7" tablets are simply tweeners. I have no idea if Apple will release one. But in my experience, they're a waste for the most part.
     
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Apr 7, 2012, 09:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Odd. I remember nothing of such adamant assertions that Apple would not release a 12" PowerBook.

I don't think there was much discussion back then, at all.
There definitely was significant discussion about it. The usual comments were either like yours (I'll buy one if it comes out), or else that it was not appropriate for pro use and one should just buy a 12" iBook if want that form factor. I'll admit there wasn't as much discussion about it as the "headless xMac" but significant discussion nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I do remember drooling over the chiclet iBook (my then-girlfriend bought one immediately when it came out) and repeatedly saying that I'd buy one the second they put out a PowerBook in that form factor (which I did).
I already had the 12" iBook BTW, but it was slow as hell because it used the G3.
     
 
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