[Badger]

Why is this feature missing? Too much Windows-like scrambling to move things from one place to another.

[mymacwm]

I totally agree, however it seems we are getting to a point where Apple has decided what's in and what's out, and I'm afraid that it looks like spring loaded folders are out. I e-mailed Apple not too long ago with a request for their return; they were certainlly one of my favorite features from OS 8+

While the new column view still doesn't offer everything spring loaded folders did, it does offer some consolation.
-Adam

[Norm1985]

Originally posted by jde:
<STRONG>Why is this feature missing? Too much Windows-like scrambling to move things from one place to another.</STRONG>

We've had this topic so many times before... There are MANY threads about this.

[The Dude]

Originally posted by mymacwm:
<STRONG>I totally agree, however it seems we are getting to a point where Apple has decided what's in and what's out, and I'm afraid that it looks like spring loaded folders are out. I e-mailed Apple not too long ago with a request for their return; they were certainlly one of my favorite features from OS 8+

While the new column view still doesn't offer everything spring loaded folders did, it does offer some consolation.
-Adam </STRONG>

I wouldn't give up all hope. I mean, who is to say it won't show up in Jaguar? Hell, it'd be a great way for Apple to pitch it!

Mac OS 10.2. Now more like OS 9!

[kidtexas]

I could totally do without spring loaded folders and learn to live with column view (which I am rather fond of) if only you could descend down the directories in column view in a spring-loaded-folder manner. It just seems absurd to either move a file to the desktop, open the destination, and drop it in, or even worse, open two windows to move a file. Sure, that new copy/paste function for files is alright, but you should be able to pick up a file with you cursor, and put it anywhere you want without out touching anything but the mouse. Drag and drop... with out multiple windows open.

[JC Denton]

One interesting thing I just noticed today are that there ARE spring loaded folders...they just happen to be in Mail.app. I don't know if this was in the last rev, but I was moving some mail out of my inbox into my filed mail listed in the drawer, when lo and behold, the little grey triangle of my filed mail folder flashed, and I saw, in all its glory, spring-loaded folders.

I transferred my mail to the subfolder of choice, and the folders closed again, OS 9 style. Maybe when sending feedback to Apple about this, put in a concrete example ("sort of like in Mail!") just in case the Next programmers haven't touched 9.x in awhile...

[flysky]

I liked SLFs and see no reason that Apple shouldn't bring them back, since so many people want them. I'd prefer the implementation of a drawer in Finder windows for copying and moving files and folders, as has been discussed in at least a couple of threads here.

I have, however, found something that I think is an interesting interim solution. While reading information about AppleScripting in 10.1, I came a across this:

Tile Front Windows — When clicked, this script will move and resize the first and second Finder windows and place them adjacent to each other and set to display in list view. A useful script for comparing the contents of two directories or for moving items between two folders. Use the previous script to reset the folder views when done.

http://www.apple.com/applescript/mac...olbar_scripts/

To explain a bit more, you download the script and place its icon in the toolbar. Clicking it, if I read the explanation correctly, opens/lines up two Finder windows on top of each other in List view.

I haven't tried it yet, and I think Column view would be more helpful as a default, but I do think it could shorten and simplify the moving/copying process.

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: flysky ]

[BuonRotto]

SLF are a continuation of the drag-n-drop principle of good UI design. That's the good part. The "bad" part is the "spring" element that opens windows on top of one another, etc -- it makes traversing in icon views kinda tricky. To me, the SLF idea makes perfect sense in column and list views where they could simply disclose the next folder level in the same window, thus making it easier to "back out" of places. But icon view has always been difficult since you can't just add a column or disclose a closed folder in it and you lose the place you started if you want to go back. The SLF idea makes great sense for two out of three Finder view modes.

I'm also into a drawer idea to replace the SLF functionality not only because the UI makes more sense in icon view, but also because it makes moving and copying files non-modal -- that is, you can move an object out of one folder, then find where you want to put it (or create a new place to put it) and drop it later, or just leave it there until later. Currently with OS 9's SLF feature you have to know exactly where you want to move or copy the object before you start. The drawer lets user work in their own sequence or method, plus unlike the old NeXT shelf, it keep the toolbar fairly clean (though I suppose the current Dock is precedence against this separation).

[trevgriff]

Yeah I noticed the spring loaded action in Mail.app just yesterday. Maybe this means it won't be to hard to bring system wide Spring Loaded Folders back!

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: trevgriff ]

[SezMe]

well, except that mail.app is a cocoa app and Finder is carbon. Actually that feature has existed in mail since at least 10.0.0 possibly earlier.

I'm sure Apple is planning to add this to the Finder, I mean it's so darn useful. But for now I'm glad that at least the performance in the Finder is back up to acceptable levels.

[Xeo]

This thread was started by a new member, so it's not a very big deal, but...

Everyone knows that SLFs don't exist in OS X yet. Everyone knows that there are many who would like them. If you want them, utilize the OS X feedback page. Talking about it over and over again here will not get the message to Apple. We can't assume they get their ideas from 3rd party web forums.

With that said, let the extremely redundant posts resume.

[SkiBikeSki]

SLF's should return to OS X. It came in so handy when copying or moving files. I really don't like the idea of copying files to the clipboard,a pasting them into the folder, especially since I don't get to choose where the go in the folder at first. Many times when I paste, the new files are put on top of old ones and this creates a problem. For now I have OS X always create a new window when opening folder, and I use option-double click a lot!

[LordJavac]

There is BIG hope for both spring-loaded folders and labels. Let me tell you why, I have been digging around in the AppleScript dictionaries of various applications (to see what they can do with AS). The Finder has AppleScript hooks for settings related to spring-loadeed folders and labels. Now the really interesting thing is that the hooks for spring-loaded folders are no longer marked as "legacy" (or whatever they were marked as in 10.0). I've tried using them, but to no avail. Perhaps someone who has a better understanding of the mechanisms behind AS can figure out if these are unimplemented, or just me not using them right.

[cpt kangarooski]

I'm not confident that a shelf holds up all that well... at least in the absence of other unimplemented features. (amazingly, I can see a place for piles here!)

I can forsee some decent (at least easily forseeable -- not the same as good!) behaviors that would operate if you used modifier keys on drags in and out of the shelf. I remain curious though as to what happens to files that never leave the shelf, and what happens when you drag eight-billion icons to the shelf simultaneously. (aggregated as a single object? eight billion seperate objects? a pile?)

Additionally, how would context be preserved. e.g. an icon and a name is not enough to go by -- i'd add where it had come from. i've got a couple of backed up copies of folders on my system, and it can get confusing very easily if you forget which is backed up and which is active if only file contents were changing.

[bewebste]

Originally posted by LordJavac:
<STRONG>There is BIG hope for both spring-loaded folders and labels. Let me tell you why, I have been digging around in the AppleScript dictionaries of various applications (to see what they can do with AS). The Finder has AppleScript hooks for settings related to spring-loadeed folders and labels. Now the really interesting thing is that the hooks for spring-loaded folders are no longer marked as "legacy" (or whatever they were marked as in 10.0). I've tried using them, but to no avail. Perhaps someone who has a better understanding of the mechanisms behind AS can figure out if these are unimplemented, or just me not using them right.</STRONG>

I wouldn't get my hopes up. The entire preferences object definition has a big warning saying NOT AVAILABLE, SUBJECT TO CHANGE. It looks like they started out the new Finder's dictionary by just copying the OS 9 dictionary and then modifying it. There are several settings that are there but make no sense at all in the OS X Finder. Things like "button view arrangement" and "uses simple menus". I don't think we'll see spring-loaded folders come back, although I would be glad to see a spring-loaded column view.

[wingdo]

Originally posted by Xeo:
<STRONG>This thread was started by a new member, so it's not a very big deal, but...

With that said, let the extremely redundant posts resume.</STRONG>

I really miss SLFs.

[BuonRotto]

cpt.:

The NeXT shelf behavior for when multiple items were dragged to the shelf at one time was to create a special icon (a hand holding cards) that told you how many items it represented as its name, e.g. "800 items." It was a good work-around but ultimately it limited user flexibility because you could only drop those items as one big thing.

That's why I like the idea of a drawer where you can see a list of all the items and distribute them as you please.

[cpt kangarooski]

Buon --

Yeah, I know how it was handled on NextStep actually. If I had my damn LAN set up (not much use now that I'm back on the modem) I'd post a screen shot.

Honestly, I think that it's pretty good behavior really, but a pile feature so that it was (moderately) browsable up front, and the ability to open the pile into a window that was itself a list of ONLY the objects in the pile, would be superior. I fear having a unifed list for everything, and 'losing' the objects you put in there earlier, because so much stuff has since accumulated since then, and is not sorted by the order in which you put it in. Am I communicating that clearly? I'm not sure.

[johnnylundy]

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<STRONG>SLF are a continuation of the drag-n-drop principle of good UI design. That's the good part. The "bad" part is the "spring" element that opens windows on top of one another, etc -- it makes traversing in icon views kinda tricky. To me, the SLF idea makes perfect sense in column and list views where they could simply disclose the next folder level in the same window, thus making it easier to "back out" of places. But icon view has always been difficult since you can't just add a column or disclose a closed folder in it and you lose the place you started if you want to go back. The SLF idea makes great sense for two out of three Finder view modes.

</STRONG>

Have to agree 100% - nothing quicker and easier than one click, one drag, one drop, bingo, exactly where you wanted it and you don't have to know ahead of time. This should be extended to dropping onto menus too.

Icon view was never a problem for me - while dragging, the window contents scroll if you hold the item-to-be-dropped along the edge. Hover over the target folder adn it springs open. I like it.

[BuonRotto]

Cpt: I understand what you mean perfectly. It's a good point I didn't think up. Perhaps "packing" items dragged in groups into drawer folders with disclosure triangles? Dunno. Love that list view (a lot more now it resizes better) -- I use as the default Finder view, though I use icon views for specific folder shortcuts in the Dock and column view to burrow for specific items.

I didn't want to assume you knew NeXTstep despite my suspicions to the contrary.

Johnny: I used it all the time with icon view too, but I was thinking that icon view can't display where you're coming from and where you're going like the other two modes, ergo my thoughts. With SLF in icon view, you're always a bit in the dark in that sense, plus if you abort, it's a bit more awkward to "snap back" to where you were in the filesystem. I'm just thinking about *ideal* solutions if there are any. All three of the popular solutions have shortcomings it seems. Pick your poison.