Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Confederate Flag Displays

Confederate Flag Displays (Page 2)
Thread Tools
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:33 PM
 
They should drop the flag and promote peaches. Everybody likes peaches.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
I think that's the Irish lobby more than anything else, and the belief that we have a "special relationship" with Ireland because of their poor, tired, huddled masses etc.
I could accept it as being just a regular "special relationship" thing if it were purely a country of birth thing. And the fact that it didn't include part of the UK (NI).
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
design219  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:34 PM
 
I don't like peaches, but I like peanuts.
__________________________________________________

My stupid iPhone game: Nesen Probe, it's rather old, annoying and pointless, but it's free.
Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
keep up with the ever updating iOS. RIP Nesen Probe.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The need to differentiate yourselves is the sour grapes. Apparently you guys aren't happy enough being identified as Americans.

I'm not associating the flag with racism (though there are times that'd be accurate). I associate with an inability to let go of the past. If you're so proud of where you live, fly your state's flag. WHy don't they do that instead?
In the same manner, why do all sorts of Americans feel the need for a qualifier depending on where their great great great great granddaddy was born? You know, Irish-American, Italian-American, African-American? Why can't you all just be happy being Americans? Why can't you let go of the past?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I could accept it as being just a regular "special relationship" thing if it were purely a country of birth thing. And the fact that it didn't include part of the UK (NI).
Well, I think we're smart enough to figure out that there are people of Irish descent living in the UK. And far be it for me to deny that there ever could have been sympathy in certain parts of the U.S. for anyone fighting against the British government.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The need to differentiate yourselves is the sour grapes. Apparently you guys aren't happy enough being identified as Americans.
We don't differentiate ourselves. The rest of the country has ever since the Civil War. We're ignorant rednecks.

If you're so proud of where you live, fly your state's flag. WHy don't they do that instead?
Clearly you've never seen the Louisiana state flag.

     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
In the same manner, why do all sorts of Americans feel the need for a qualifier depending on where their great great great great granddaddy was born? You know, Irish-American, Italian-American, African-American? Why can't you all just be happy being Americans? Why can't you let go of the past?
I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but I actually think that **** is overrated. So I win.
     
design219  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Bwaaaaaahahahahahahaaaa!
__________________________________________________

My stupid iPhone game: Nesen Probe, it's rather old, annoying and pointless, but it's free.
Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
keep up with the ever updating iOS. RIP Nesen Probe.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Well, I think we're smart enough to figure out that there are people of Irish descent living in the UK. And far be it for me to deny that there ever could have been sympathy in certain parts of the U.S. for anyone fighting against the British government.
I bolded the key word for ya. That's racism.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:44 PM
 
To be clear, I don't think I've ever owned anything displaying the Confederate Flag. I've had a 6-foot wide American flag for years, and have flown it nearly everywhere.

In my eyes, I'm a Christian first, American second, and Louisianan third. I don't personally feel all that different for being a Southerner, but a lot of my friends do. I'm not a rough, country kind of guy, but I do understand the sentiment of being looked down upon by the rest of the country.

The Northerners (that goes for you Canadians too) and foreigners on MacNN have to admit that they've probably made quite a few jokes directed at Southern people through the years.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by design219 View Post
Bwaaaaaahahahahahahaaaa!
Exactly.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
We don't differentiate ourselves. The rest of the country has ever since the Civil War. We're ignorant rednecks.
Oh the poor plight of the american southerner. If only we wine-sipping sissy yankee elitists knew what it was like to be generalized and looked down upon.

Give me a break. You guys display the flag because you want to me something more than American. Plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Clearly you've never seen the Louisiana state flag.

...I don't follow what you're trying to say. You don't like that flag?
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I bolded the key word for ya. That's racism.
Only if you think that "Irish" is a race.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:50 PM
 
I would like to reclaim the swastika back for the Buddhist.



http://www.reclaimtheswastika.com/
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh the poor plight of the american southerner. If only we wine-sipping sissy yankee elitists knew what it was like to be generalized and looked down upon.

Give me a break. You guys display the flag because you want to me something more than American. Plain and simple.
Over the last 20 years or so, it seems like Southerners are some of the only ones who remember what it means to actually be American.

Also, I'm putting the term "wine-sipping sissy yankee elitists" in a folder and using it whenever I can.

...I don't follow what you're trying to say. You don't like that flag?
     
design219  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Over the last 20 years or so, it seems like Southerners are some of the only ones who remember what it means to actually be American.
Uhmmm. What exactly do you mean?
__________________________________________________

My stupid iPhone game: Nesen Probe, it's rather old, annoying and pointless, but it's free.
Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
keep up with the ever updating iOS. RIP Nesen Probe.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Only if you think that "Irish" is a race.
Well, if we were only talking about the RoI, then you'd have a point. But since the scheme includes NI, it's obvious that those in control are going for the ethnic grouping rather than national.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I would like to reclaim the swastika back for the Buddhist.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by design219 View Post
Uhmmm. What exactly do you mean?
Just the best effort in this thread (so far) to get it moved to the political lounge.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Well, if we were only talking about the RoI, then you'd have a point. But since the scheme includes NI, it's obvious that those in control are going for the ethnic grouping rather than national.
Right. Two clear geopolitically-defined territories. And ethnicity != race by most definitions, although the definitions have changed over the years. Anyway, my point is that it's easy (for Americans) to include Northern Ireland in the Irish "nationality," because it has "Ireland" in the name and we're dumb like that.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Over the last 20 years or so, it seems like Southerners are some of the only ones who remember what it means to actually be American.
Here we go. Let's bring politics into this! At the end of the day, that's what this flag is really about, and that's why the entire thing is so ludicrous. It's such a "He's not my President!" sort of view.


Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Yeah, I try not to assume things in conversations such as these. It's the polite thing to do. A real American would know that.

Assuming you're showing some type of aesthetic disapproval towards you state flag, that's a cop-out.
     
Paco500
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Was?
Sorry- never meant to imply that racism was a thing of the past- I just thought we were talking about the past so I used that tense.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:04 PM
 
Virginia has the only truly bad-ass state flag, with Caesar about to get impaled by a half-naked lady.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Paco500
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Unless you've grown up in the South, it's hard to understand the mentality of those who fly the flag good-naturedly.
I did grow up in the south and lived there until I moved to the UK about 4 years ago. I have roots in the deep south going back generations. I still don't understand how someone can fly a symbol of human oppression good-naturedly.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Part of it has to do with the seemingly prevalent mentality from West Coast, East Coast, Northern, and foreign types who see the South as a group of mindless, uneducated, racist hillbillies. We don't like being looked down on, and the Confederate Flag, for better or worse, is often used to show a little pride in who we are.
I would say that if one uses a that particular symbol as a show of pride, they deserve to be views as a mindless, uneducated, racist hillbilly. And I'm a southerner.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Once again, here's a Southerner I met along the road one day, took pictures of, and then had lunch with (from my Flickr):



He spent over an hour at lunch telling me how the Confederate Flag was misunderstood and that all people from the Southern states should fly it proudly.
For every one black guy you can produce that digs the flag, I bet I can show you 100,000 who find it repulsive.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Right. Two clear geopolitically-defined territories. And ethnicity != race by most definitions, although the definitions have changed over the years. Anyway, my point is that it's easy (for Americans) to include Northern Ireland in the Irish "nationality," because it has "Ireland" in the name and we're dumb like that.
So if it's just about nationality, why is someone born in the UK who's never been to Ireland included if they have Irish blood?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Here we go. Let's bring politics into this! At the end of the day, that's what this flag is really about, and that's why the entire thing is so ludicrous. It's such a "He's not my President!" sort of view.
Bah...

They were waving it just as often when Reagan/Bush41/Bush43 were President. It's not about distancing themselves from the rest of the country. It's not even really all about politics, although politics do have something to do with it.

It's about being proud of where you're from, even with the obvious blemishes in the region's past. It's also like wearing the t-shirt of a sports team you support. Sure, you're supporting your team...but you're also supporting the sport in general.

Yeah, I try not to assume things in conversations such as these. It's the polite thing to do. A real American would know that.
Well, Lord bless you, brother.

Assuming you're showing some type of aesthetic disapproval towards you state flag, that's a cop-out.
Yes, I think our state flag is hideous. Texas is possibly the only Southern flag that is actually pretty cool.

But no, that's not the point. They're not trying to support their states. They're supporting their region and the things that make them proud of it. And they're doing it proudly and peacefully (idiots who whoop and throw half-empty beer cans at pedestrians notwithstanding).
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
I did grow up in the south and lived there until I moved to the UK about 4 years ago. I have roots in the deep south going back generations. I still don't understand how someone can fly a symbol of human oppression good-naturedly.

I would say that if one uses a that particular symbol as a show of pride, they deserve to be views as a mindless, uneducated, racist hillbilly. And I'm a southerner.
Considering your background, I'm more willing to appreciate your opinion on the matter, but I'm telling you that I absolutely know plenty of people who fly the "Stars and Bars" without a hint of malice. In fact, I know one or two who consider themselves progressive Democrats who still carry paraphernalia that display the Confederate flag.

For every one black guy you can produce that digs the flag, I bet I can show you 100,000 who find it repulsive.
Which is why I don't personally fly it. I don't want to be mistaken as racist or insensitive. I'm just saying I understand the viewpoint of some of the people who display it and don't mean anything offensive by it.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
So if it's just about nationality, why is someone born in the UK who's never been to Ireland included if they have Irish blood?
Because they are descendants of people who are actually from Ireland? Presumably it was thought that someone whose parents were Irish would be more likely to have national self-identification to Ireland than someone whose grandparents were Irish, in the same way that Americans who can trace their lineage to Ireland up to a certain point can get perks from the Irish government, too. I don't know if it's common in the UK to equate categories of nationality to race, but it's definitely not here, at least for the last 100 years or so. I guarantee you that "Irish" is not a racial category on INS' forms.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Paco500
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Which is why I don't personally fly it. I don't want to be mistaken as racist or insensitive. I'm just saying I understand the viewpoint of some of the people who display it and don't mean anything offensive by it.
You are, it would seem, more understanding than I. There is no lack of blaring evidence that large groups of people, in the south and beyond, view the flag as a symbol of racism, oppression and hatred. How anyone can overlook this and be "good-natured" about it is beyond me. Perhaps they are not uneducated bumpkins, they just have no empathy for their fellow man.

Paul said it well in 2 Corinthians 6:3

Originally Posted by Paul
We give no offense in anything, that our ministry may not be blamed.
These people have to know they are being offensive, and they just don't care- and it reflects poorly on them.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:25 PM
 
Everything offends someone.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Because they are descendants of people who are actually from Ireland? I don't know if it's common in the UK to equate categories of nationality to race, but it's definitely not here, at least for the last 100 years or so. I guarantee you that "Irish" is not a racial category on INS' forms.
I'm not sure that you're understanding that NI is in the UK, thus anyone from NI is "British" rather than Irish, nationally speaking - I have the same passport as anyone from NI. So, nationality wise, if you're "British" from NI, you get in while if you're "British" from anywhere else you don't. Likewise with your bloodline. I don't see how that can be anything other than selection by ethnicity.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:30 PM
 
.
Originally Posted by paco500 View Post
paul said it well cuddled up to the romans in 2 corinthians 6:3
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Everything offends someone.
But not everything is the battle flag of a government that rallied behind an institution that enslaved the direct ancestors of many people currently living in the United States. I mean, at a certain point if you're thinking "tough, it's my right to fly this flag if I want to and you just have to deal with it" then you're just being a jerk, right?

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
But not everything is the battle flag of a government that rallied behind an institution that enslaved the direct ancestors of many people currently living in the United States. I mean, at a certain point if you're thinking "tough, it's my right to fly this flag if I want to and you just have to deal with it" then you're just being a jerk, right?
The United States flag is also the flag of a government that rallied behind an institution that enslaved the direct ancestors of many people currently living in the United States. If you choose to focus on that aspect of the Confederacy but other aspects of the United States, that's you, isn't it?
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Isn't the current flag you all pledge allegiance to essentially the same one your government was operating under in 1838 when they forcibly removed the Cherokee from their lands, causing 4,000 deaths?

THEN


NOW

Nope, totally different.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
But not everything is the battle flag of a government that rallied behind an institution that enslaved the direct ancestors of many people currently living in the United States.
Neither is that thing up there. It's the wrong shape for the battle flag and the wrong colours for the navy jack.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Bah...

They were waving it just as often when Reagan/Bush41/Bush43 were President. It's not about distancing themselves from the rest of the country. It's not even really all about politics, although politics do have something to do with it.

It's about being proud of where you're from, even with the obvious blemishes in the region's past. It's also like wearing the t-shirt of a sports team you support. Sure, you're supporting your team...but you're also supporting the sport in general.
Proud of where you're from – why not a state's flag again? The confederacy hasn't existed in over 100 years. The people around now had no stake in it. So why the preference to it?



Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
But no, that's not the point. They're not trying to support their states. They're supporting their region and the things that make them proud of it. And they're doing it proudly and peacefully (idiots who whoop and throw half-empty beer cans at pedestrians notwithstanding).
If you want so show your proud of your region, I'd advise you don't choose the symbol of one of the worst times in this country's history, and the symbol that explicitly stated, "We're not a part of this country."

I don't think southerners are that dumb (contrary to your claims of the stereotypes we northerners may hold), so tperhaps you guys like the emotion it raises, the attention it garners. Perhaps you guys are clinging to a time when the south was more relevant, even if that relevance was rooted in a time ugliness.

I guess what I'm saying is, why shouldn't outsiders think of all these things when they see the flag displayed?
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post

THEN


NOW

Nope, totally different.
*cough*

Originally Posted by Doofy
Isn't the current flag you all pledge allegiance to essentially the same one your government was operating under in 1838 when they forcibly removed the Cherokee from their lands, causing 4,000 deaths?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 05:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
The United States flag is also the flag of a government that rallied behind an institution that enslaved the direct ancestors of many people currently living in the United States. If you choose to focus on that aspect of the Confederacy but other aspects of the United States, that's you, isn't it?
Right. But the United States won, the CSA lost, and in the process slavery was abolished. I'm not trying to oversimplify it and claim that the United States hasn't been a racist state, but saying that the U.S. flag and the battle flag of the Confederacy (which represents a much more specific historical moment) should be seen as equally divisive just doesn't pass muster.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I'm not sure that you're understanding that NI is in the UK, thus anyone from NI is "British" rather than Irish, nationally speaking - I have the same passport as anyone from NI. So, nationality wise, if you're "British" from NI, you get in while if you're "British" from anywhere else you don't. Likewise with your bloodline. I don't see how that can be anything other than selection by ethnicity.
No, I understand that. I'm just saying that a law applied for the benefit of people from a geopolitically-defined area that is the Republic of Ireland and the territory of Northern Ireland (and their immediate descendants) is not a racist law because it does not classify people according to race. It classifies people according to geographical place of birth/residency/whatever, and extends that benefit to immediate descendants. If enrollments at Mississippi State University in the U.S. were down and the state decided to extend in-state tuition to the immediate descendants of people born in Mississippi, wherever they currently reside, that wouldn't be a racist policy either.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
*cough*


No man, when I see 26 of something, I think of racial genocide... but when I see 50 of something, it's flowers and rainbows and freedom. It's totally different.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 06:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
No, I understand that. I'm just saying that a law applied for the benefit of people from a geopolitically-defined area that is the Republic of Ireland and the territory of Northern Ireland (and their immediate descendants) is not a racist law because it does not classify people according to race. It classifies people according to geographical place of birth/residency/whatever, and extends that benefit to immediate descendants. If enrollments at Mississippi State University in the U.S. were down and the state decided to extend in-state tuition to the immediate descendants of people born in Mississippi, wherever they currently reside, that wouldn't be a racist policy either.
I give up. Too difficult to explain the ethnic makeup of the British Isles to someone who's not immersed in our history. Gonna go watch some U2 instead.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 06:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
No man, when I see 26 of something, I think of racial genocide... but when I see 50 of something, it's flowers and rainbows and freedom. It's totally different.
Dang. My sarcasm meter appears to be broken tonight.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 06:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I give up. Too difficult to explain the ethnic makeup of the British Isles to someone who's not immersed in our history. Gonna go watch some U2 instead.
*Shrug* I'll admit that, but then you're still not talking about "race" as it is commonly defined in the United States.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 06:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Not funny. Now it looks like my uncle Sam.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Not funny. Now it looks like my uncle Sam.
Looks like Oliver Hardy to me.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 07:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post


He spent over an hour at lunch telling me how the Confederate Flag was misunderstood and that all people from the Southern states should fly it proudly.
He was featured on an episode of Bullshit. I highly suggest everyone watch that show.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 07:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Paul said it well in 2 Corinthians 6:3.
Which, again (...), is why I don't personally display the flag ANYWHERE, ever.

I'm just saying...again...that I understand why some people take pride in their Southern heritage, and choose to display the Confederate flag. Is it wise to choose the Southern flag? No. But what else are they going to show? A flag that depicts a pitcher of iced sweet tea?

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Proud of where you're from – why not a state's flag again? The confederacy hasn't existed in over 100 years. The people around now had no stake in it. So why the preference to it?
Because to them, it stands for "Southern." The state flags simply represent the state, not the ideology (except for Texas). The Confederate flag supposedly stands for small government and states' rights. From the people that I know who talk about the Confederate flag, not one of them ever said anything regarding race at all, except to say "No," when I asked them if they thought it was racist.

If you want so show your proud of your region, I'd advise you don't choose the symbol of one of the worst times in this country's history, and the symbol that explicitly stated, "We're not a part of this country."
If someone is so sensitive that the sight of a flag (a flag which is NOT a clearly-defined representation of hatred) riles them up, then they need a few real problems in their life to get upset about.

I don't think southerners are that dumb (contrary to your claims of the stereotypes we northerners may hold), so tperhaps you guys like the emotion it raises, the attention it garners. Perhaps you guys are clinging to a time when the south was more relevant, even if that relevance was rooted in a time ugliness.
Well, of course you don't. You've had someone as sensible and good-natured as myself come along to reflect the gentlemanly, ruggedly good-looking segment of the South and balance out your perception.

I don't like the attention that the flag brings. The guy waving the Confederate flag at an Obama rally does like the attention it brings, and deserves to be criticized for his clearly-expressed motives. But I don't think the guy putting a Confederate flag on the wall in his workout room shouldn't instantly be considered an insensitive bigot.

I guess what I'm saying is, why shouldn't outsiders think of all these things when they see the flag displayed?
They think "these things" because everyone has been trained to think that the American Civil War was fought because of slavery. There's no need for me to elaborate on that, as it's already been discussed in this thread.

Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
He was featured on an episode of Bullshit. I highly suggest everyone watch that show.
Really? Ha...his name is H.K. Edgerton, if anyone wants to Google him.

I wouldn't call him a reflection of my views, by any means. He was speaking sensibly the day that I met him, and then suddenly dove off into some of the most ridiculous opinions I've ever heard.

Interesting guy though.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 07:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
They think "these things" because everyone has been trained to think that the American Civil War was fought because of slavery. There's no need for me to elaborate on that, as it's already been discussed in this thread.
Well, that and the Ku Klux Klan. I'm not trying to say that should define the flag, but there is plenty of context through which the flag can be interpreted that has nothing directly to do with the Civil War.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2009, 09:50 PM
 
The suggestion that the Civil War was about slavery is as uninformed as the suggestion that the war "started" with the attack on the US garrison at Ft. Sumpter. The Civil War was about economics, pure and simple. The ONLY way the Southern states could produce any sort of cash crop was with a combination of slave labor and share cropping (mostly extremely poor whites), because they'd not invested in ANY sort of industrial infrastructure beyond the cotton gin. The states of the South complained in Congress that a variety of tariffs and other trade issues were "unfair" to those states because they seemed to favor foreign sources of goods and/or punish the Southern states' interests financially.

The war was lost before it began, because the Southern states lacked the infrastructure or resources to prosecute an extended war, and lacked the transport infrastructure to make what they had work very well. The war went a lot longer than it might have because the US government couldn't find its collective arse with both hands and printed, illustrated instructions-primarily in terms of the US Army being completely unorganized and unable to mobilize easily DESPITE the inherent superiority of the rail system in the North. That the Confederacy was run by a bunch of stiff-necked "principled" coots who did not have a clue about what they were dealing with, and who thought that "honor" was a workable end in itself was not nearly as bad for them as the Army's lack of organization. Plus, General Lee was ASKED by the president to lead the Union Army; if he had, the war would probably been over in less than a year. Instead, he acted as a Virginian rather than an American, and the rest is very deeply documented history.

On the balance, to MANY people, the Confederate Battle Flag (the "stars and bars") represents the principled, honor-bound young upper class men who "took a stand" against being pushed around from without. That's not a bad thing to keep in mind and celebrate. That the battle flag has been stolen by bigoted groups of knuckle dragers does NOT mean that the flag ACTUALLY represents THEIR ideas. Letting them dictate the meaning of that flag gives them power they should neither have nor deserve. Let them pander their hate and wave a flag they do not understand. But those of us who know better can continue to consider those individuals (one cannot really call them "people," let alone "men") to be what they are-worthless, useless and mindless.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:08 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,