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Panther 7B39 (Page 4)
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cybergoober
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Aug 19, 2003, 07:46 PM
 
Originally posted by bewebste:
Well, they also added a dock menu to System Preferences that lets you directly select a preference pane to open. But what's the use of this if you can't keep the application open but have the window closed?
Hmm, I don't know... Hide it?
     
superfula
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Aug 19, 2003, 08:01 PM
 
Keep the preferences icon in the dock. It doesn't need to be running to use the menu
     
Ratm
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Aug 19, 2003, 08:48 PM
 
OMFG!!!

iBook users (500-600 mhz) Panther will resurrect your comp; this is a must upgrade. I can't believe how fast it is compared to Jaguar, its definitely snappy™. I can't wait to see how it performs on a G5....they should rename Panther and call it Lightning
     
Matt OS X
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Aug 19, 2003, 09:13 PM
 
iBook users (500-600 mhz) Panther will resurrect your comp; this is a must upgrade. I can't believe how fast it is compared to Jaguar, its definitely snappy™. I can't wait to see how it performs on a G5....they should rename Panther and call it Lightning [/B][/QUOTE]


Hey, I'm iBook 700 MHZ user and I burned 3 Cds of 7B39 on CD-RW Cds..
( Last edited by Matt OS X; Aug 20, 2003 at 09:29 AM. )

"Unfortunately, no one can be told what Mac OS X is... you must see it for yourself."
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Aug 19, 2003, 10:01 PM
 
Originally posted by Matt OS X:
iBook users (500-600 mhz) Panther will resurrect your comp; this is a must upgrade. I can't believe how fast it is compared to Jaguar, its definitely snappy™. I can't wait to see how it performs on a G5....they should rename Panther and call it Lightning

Hey, I'm iBook 700 MHZ user and I burned 3 Cds of 7B39 on CD-RW Cds.. when I put the 1st cd and restarted the computer and everything went back to normal as nothing had happened? what do you think went wrong? How can I fix the problem or I have to dwld the 7B39 again and burn it on CD-R? Would this solve a problem?? any help would appreciated!!!!
Questions like this will get this thread locked.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=166195

+1
( Last edited by Mrjinglesusa; Aug 19, 2003 at 10:19 PM. )
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 19, 2003, 10:49 PM
 
Just a general note: In order to boot from a CD, you hold down the "C" key on boot.

If the machine still won't boot from CD, then, quite frankly, throw away the CD and don't bother again until there's an officially supported version.

Matt OS X, you should edit your post. Support of pirated software is not tolerated by the mods of this board for legal reasons.

Cheers,

-s*
     
Musti
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Aug 19, 2003, 11:21 PM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Support of pirated software is not tolerated by the mods of this board for legal reasons.

If this is a joke you forgot the smileys. If it's not a joke you again forgot the smileys because it's a good one.
     
benb
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Aug 19, 2003, 11:37 PM
 
Originally posted by Musti:
If this is a joke you forgot the smileys. If it's not a joke you again forgot the smileys because it's a good one.
Did you overlook this thread?
     
diamondsw
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Aug 20, 2003, 12:08 AM
 
Originally posted by superfula:
On a side note, I have had ZERO problems with Meteo at any point since it went open source, and it works perfect in Panther. I'm guessing it has something to do with the individual's machine instead of the app itself.
It has to do with Meteo not parsing the weather for my area properly (Chicago, IL isn't that oddball of a place), and general instability since 10.2.5 or so. The bug report list over at its project page has dozens of reports of essentially the same issues.

Meh, whatever. This ain't the thread for it, so I'll drop that subject. It's still a great program, it just needs a couple (major) bugs fixed.
     
diamondsw
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Aug 20, 2003, 12:10 AM
 
I still think one of the greatest new features in Panther is the ability to shut off "double click to minimize".
     
LightWaver-67
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Aug 20, 2003, 12:22 AM
 
To switch gears for a moment...

Have any Panther users seen a single TRACE of the previously "released" feature in Jaguar that was pulled for some reason...? I'm talking about Sherlock's ability to track packages. It is plain as day on my retail box... an icon in Sherlock... but it was 'cut' at the last minute before hitting the stores.

Has there been any talk or conjecture of its return at all...? Just curious. I'd find it usefull. I currently use "PackageTracker".
     
Riemann Zeta
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Aug 20, 2003, 12:59 AM
 
"Just wondering if this 7B39 beta will be the last beta before the Panther release soon? What do you guysthink? I'd like to know if there's another Beta coming up or what?"


The OS itself is fairly stable. The applications, however, are a completely different story. Safari randomly quits every ~15 minutes (non-reproduceable bug, so it is hard to report); iTunes quits on exit; and, most importantly (althought Apple is well aware of this), Install VISE crashes the Finder (and I mean a HARD crash), making it impossible to install most applications without a huge pain in the ass. I'd say they have a lot more work to do.
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Phoenix1701
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Aug 20, 2003, 01:29 AM
 
Here's a little something for everyone who has been talking about ZIP compression in the Finder. There are two other icons associated with that compression engine (which Apple is apparently abbreviating "bah" -- a very appropriate name given the general reaction!) other than ZIP files, however. I don't know much about either of the other formats, however, so perhaps someone with a bit more knowhow can tell me something about these:



Oh, and anyone worried that Apple is going to keep those horrific icons in the final release should have a look at the application icon for the archival engine:





edit: they even got the light source right, except it's right for Mac OS 9... that, and the fact that the icons for the archives are just big versions of the Mac OS 9 document icon sans shadow, make me wonder if maybe it's not the OS 9 team working on this...
( Last edited by Phoenix1701; Aug 20, 2003 at 01:51 AM. )
     
Phoenix1701
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Aug 20, 2003, 01:49 AM
 
And one last thing before I go to bed -- the default button in the "This application crashed. Do you want to submit a bug report?" dialog is now "Cancel", not "Submit Report".

Either Apple's engineers had some suspiciously similar gripes about Panther to the ones we had, or they're listening to feedback regardless of its source... either way, it's good for us!
     
- - e r i k - -
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Aug 20, 2003, 01:56 AM
 
Originally posted by Phoenix1701:
And one last thing before I go to bed -- the default button in the "This application crashed. Do you want to submit a bug report?" dialog is now "Cancel", not "Submit Report".
Alas, so is the default button on the restart dialog. (when you have more than one user open)

I can't count how many times I've typed my password and hit return...

The first times I thought the feature was broken altogether.

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Simon
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Aug 20, 2003, 03:36 AM
 
Re: Quitting apps on window-close

It seems it's quite hard to define a real one-window app. Some people think pref windows count as a second window and others think they don't...

Actually I think that's not very important at all. What are Apple's actual guidelines? And, are they really following them? (they have broke their own rules before)

Under OS X I can't imagine why any app should quit on window close. OS X has a very decent memory management. It can re-acquire memory form non-active processes if other processes need it. Starting an app however always takes at least a moment and thus breaks workflow. Apart from that it's bad UI. The red button on top of the window is a window close button and not an app quit button. It should behave in one single consistent way. There is no need for MS-like pseudo-AI. If the user closes a window he closes it, if he wants to quit the app... well he'll have to quit it with the appropriate command.

Just my 2 cents.
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- - e r i k - -
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Aug 20, 2003, 03:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
[B]Under OS X I can't imagine why any app should quit on window close. OS X has a very decent memory management. It can re-acquire memory form non-active processes if other processes need it. Starting an app however always takes at least a moment and thus breaks workflow. Apart from that it's bad UI. The red button on top of the window is a window close button and not an app quit button. It should behave in one single consistent way. There is no need for MS-like pseudo-AI. If the user closes a window he closes it, if he wants to quit the app... well he'll have to quit it with the appropriate command. /B]
Couldn't agree more. I just can't see the reason for any app to close when the last window is closed

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iTarzan
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Aug 20, 2003, 05:00 AM
 
People, have you ever tried Command-H? It hides an application. Just as good as closing the window. You can even hide from a dock icon in Panther.
     
Simon
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Aug 20, 2003, 05:48 AM
 
Originally posted by iTarzan:
People, have you ever tried Command-H? It hides an application. Just as good as closing the window. You can even hide from a dock icon in Panther.
Yep. Do it all the time. But, unfortunately, that doesn't have anything to do with it.

The close-button should not quit an app. No matter how many windows.
•
     
iFix Rene
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Aug 20, 2003, 06:01 AM
 
Originally posted by superfula:
Keep the preferences icon in the dock. It doesn't need to be running to use the menu

not true
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Spheric Harlot
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Aug 20, 2003, 06:32 AM
 
Originally posted by Musti:
If this is a joke you forgot the smileys. If it's not a joke you again forgot the smileys because it's a good one.
I wasn't joking; threads HAVE got locked, and there is quite a distinct difference between *discussion* and *support*.

And I'm not the one doing either the reporting or the locking, so don't go that way.

-s*
     
iFix Rene
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Aug 20, 2003, 06:50 AM
 

edit: they even got the light source right, except it's right for Mac OS 9... that, and the fact that the icons for the archives are just big versions of the Mac OS 9 document icon sans shadow, make me wonder if maybe it's not the OS 9 team working on this... [/B]

I actually think the look of the OS will move
back to a OS9 like look over time... lots of elements
like brushed apps plastic style button are
more OS 9-ish (flat) already
(compare safaributtons to classic aqua buttons,
first dont really look realistic, second looks like a
glass shape with depth)
10.4 will prolly be completely brushed and
will thus look a lot more flat like OS9
Like in fashion the look will depend on what
is hip... 2D will be hip again!! LOL
If it ain't broken... Fix it!©
     
Diggory Laycock
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Aug 20, 2003, 07:50 AM
 
I've just had to go back to my Pismo 500MHz (640MB RAM) while Apple is Re-Atttaching the feet on my 17" PB.

some things I've noticed:

1 - Panther is fast on a Pismo (of course this is a fresh install which helps, but it is fast.)

2 - Script Editor's "Open Dictionary…" Dialog is a lot faster - no more long wait to open a Dict.

3 - Exposé is quick and smooth - even on an old Rage 128.

4 - There is an optional install for "Common Access Card Viewer" - Which seems to be some kind of US Dept. of Defence Smart Card:

CAC Viewer

[edit]

You can get System preferences to launch itself and hide itself using this script:

Code:
tell application "System Preferences" activate end tell tell application "System Events" tell process "System Preferences" keystroke "h" using command down end tell end tell
(paste it into Script Editor and save as Application Bundle - then add that AppleScript App to your Login Items)

You just have to remember not to close the Main Sys Prefs window after using a pane!
( Last edited by Diggory Laycock; Aug 20, 2003 at 08:15 AM. )
You know it makes sense. ☼ ☼ ☼ Growl.
     
gorickey
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Aug 20, 2003, 08:23 AM
 
Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:


4 - There is an optional install for "Common Access Card Viewer" - Which seems to be some kind of US Dept. of Defence Smart Card:

Odd...
     
lookmark
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Aug 20, 2003, 08:27 AM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
[B]If the user closes a window he closes it, if he wants to quit the app... well he'll have to quit it with the appropriate command.
I guess this is a somewhat controversial issue, and I believe it's because two sets of user behavior out there exist. Here's my take on it: the close button on a window means "close this window". If an application has a single, all-in-one window (like Calculator, for example) what's going on when the user closes the window? Does the user want to close the window but keep the application open? Or does the user want to quickly exit the application?

Obviously, there are two sets of user expectation out there (I've encountered both just from watching various users) so it's a tricky issue.

I find myself almost always in the latter camp (when I want to keep an app around but don't want to see it, I hide it). And I don't agree that hitting a close box to close a single-window app is psuedo-UI. It's an appropriate adjustment of what a "close widget" means, for a non-document based application that by design has only a single, contained window.

I wish it wasn't chosen on an app-by-app basis, though; that's what can be confusing. A systemwide preference for this would be much better.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 20, 2003, 08:45 AM
 
Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
You can get System preferences to launch itself and hide itself using this script:

Code:
tell application "System Preferences" activate end tell tell application "System Events" tell process "System Preferences" keystroke "h" using command down end tell end tell
(paste it into Script Editor and save as Application Bundle - then add that AppleScript App to your Login Items)

You just have to remember not to close the Main Sys Prefs window after using a pane!
I have to ask:

Why not just add the System Preferences to your Login Items and select the "hide" checkbox?

-s*
     
Simon
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Aug 20, 2003, 09:11 AM
 
Originally posted by lookmark:
Does the user want to close the window but keep the application open? Or does the user want to quickly exit the application?
I think this is precisely the reason that this isn't a question of taste.

Under OS X and under normal conditions there is no reason to ever quit an app. There used to be, because RAM was expensive and virtual memeory sucked, but nowadays it just doesn't matter.

I recently watched the neighbor's kid play with one of my home Macs when they came over for a visit. He was quitting apps that he needed a couple of minutes later. I asked him why he was quitting them. He said he didn't want the windows on the screen. I showed him command-h and he was quite pleased. An hour later he was joyfully telling me that suddenly apps "appeared much quicker" than before.

Of course they "appear" faster, because loading and unloading apps form memory the whole time in OS X is just not necessary. It defies the purpose of swapping. It's a time-waster.
( Last edited by Simon; Aug 20, 2003 at 09:18 AM. )
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Diggory Laycock
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Aug 20, 2003, 09:52 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I have to ask:

Why not just add the System Preferences to your Login Items and select the "hide" checkbox?

-s*
hahah - what a fool am I!

I'd completely forgotten about that.
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Spheric Harlot
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Aug 20, 2003, 09:52 AM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
I think this is precisely the reason that this isn't a question of taste.

Under OS X and under normal conditions there is no reason to ever quit an app. There used to be, because RAM was expensive and virtual memeory sucked, but nowadays it just doesn't matter.
I disagree.

Reason: The Dock. An accessory I only use occasionally, like the Calculator, has no business permanently being on my Dock. It clutters, and my Dock is tiny and full enough as it is.

I do tend to quit apps I'm not going to be using for a while, simply to get them off the Dock. And for (what used to be called) desk accessories (such as the Calculator), it makes sense that they're off when you put them away. The problem is that there is no clear distinction between a "use-once" application that should quit when its window is closed and a "keep around" application.

Apple has tried to establish a "single-window apps quit on closing the window", but has had to blur the lines again for programs like iCal and Address Book.

I honestly can't think of an ideal solution.

-s*
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 20, 2003, 09:54 AM
 
Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
hahah - what a fool am I!

I'd completely forgotten about that.
Heck, your method probably works just as well!
     
- - e r i k - -
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Aug 20, 2003, 10:07 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I disagree.

Reason: The Dock. An accessory I only use occasionally, like the Calculator, has no business permanently being on my Dock. It clutters, and my Dock is tiny and full enough as it is.
And then it is so much better to break an entire UI-metaphor than to simply command-q that app?

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Spheric Harlot
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Aug 20, 2003, 10:26 AM
 
Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
And then it is so much better to break an entire UI-metaphor than to simply command-q that app?
What UI metaphor? The rules have always been pretty clear, as outlined above.

Is it better to have hapless users and switchers clutter their Dock to death because a program doesn't behave as they'd expect it?

Perhaps it's just a matter of reconditioning users to different expectations, but I'm not sure that's the better solution.

Perhaps it would be best to mandate a Preference setting in all applications. But then, I can't recall a time when *all* software vendors adhered entirely to the UI guidelines...

-s*
     
Developer
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Aug 20, 2003, 10:51 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Is it better to have hapless users and switchers clutter their Dock to death because a program doesn't behave as they'd expect it?
The ability of a system to behave as expected, als includes the ability to build those expectations.

The behavior "closing the window, closes the window; quitting the app quits the app" is a simple rule that any user can build reliable expectations on and that a switcher learns a soon as his dock reaches the width of his screen (i. e. after a few hours of usage at the latest).

The behavior "closing the window quits a single window app, unless the app does something useful without a window like bluetooth in Address Book, and if the app has a preference window it's somewhat a gray zone where the developer decides based on his feelings" is not a rule one can build reliable expectations on. Which means you will always surprise one group of users or the other.
Nasrudin sat on a river bank when someone shouted to him from the opposite side: "Hey! how do I get across?" "You are across!" Nasrudin shouted back.
     
Simon
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Aug 20, 2003, 10:57 AM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
The behavior "closing the window quits a single window app, unless the app does something useful without a window like bluetooth in Address Book, and if the app has a preference window it's somewhat a gray zone where the developer decides based on his feelings" is not a rule one can build reliable expectations on. Which means you will always surprise one group of users or the other.
Exactly.

And because of this I think Apple should stick to clear rules. Sorry to say, but I think Spheric's dock clutter (the cure against that would be to make the dock smaller, auto-magnify, auto-hide, etc.) is a small issue compared to the confusion that is otherwise spread by this inconsistent behaviour.

A close box closes. A quit command quits.

It should be that simple IMHO.
•
     
Drizzt
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Aug 20, 2003, 11:01 AM
 
I don't know for you guys... but here MSN Messenger stopped working without apparent reasons. It just won't start..

I'm looking into this, because a log-off, restart, flush prefs and DiskWarrior didn't solve it..
     
gorickey
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Aug 20, 2003, 11:05 AM
 
Originally posted by Drizzt:
...but here MSN Messenger stopped working without apparent reasons...
Umm, I know of at least one reason...MICRO$OFT!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 20, 2003, 11:12 AM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
Spheric's dock clutter (the cure against that would be to make the dock smaller, auto-magnify, auto-hide, etc.)
Auto-hide is on. Auto-magnify is out of the question, as the processor hit involved interferes with audio work. Making the Dock any smaller (note that its tininess was already part of my problem) would make it close to useless.

But I can live with it, if it makes the world a better place.
Originally posted by Simon:
A close box closes. A quit command quits.

It should be that simple IMHO.
I'm still on the fence on this one.

I'm beginning to think that you may be right, though.

-s*
     
cybergoober
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Aug 20, 2003, 11:18 AM
 
RE: Closing window quits app

Wasn't this also the behaviour of virtually every Control Panel in the Classic Mac OS?
     
Drizzt
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Aug 20, 2003, 11:19 AM
 
Originally posted by gorickey:
Umm, I know of at least one reason...MICRO$OFT!
That one was obvious.. and MSN Messenger as always been unstable with Panther..
     
Drizzt
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Aug 20, 2003, 11:22 AM
 
Originally posted by cybergoober:
RE: Closing window quits app

Wasn't this also the behaviour of virtually every Control Panel in the Classic Mac OS?
Yes.. but in the beginning it was just an interface with little logic, than Control Panels began to be almost extensions with interfaces to control them.. and there was others who were a background app with an interface to control them..

Thus.. the simple metaphore began to complexify... and it's difficult to bring back the simplicity without compromising the flexibility.
     
lookmark
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Aug 20, 2003, 11:45 AM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
Exactly.

And because of this I think Apple should stick to clear rules. Sorry to say, but I think Spheric's dock clutter (the cure against that would be to make the dock smaller, auto-magnify, auto-hide, etc.) is a small issue compared to the confusion that is otherwise spread by this inconsistent behaviour.

A close box closes. A quit command quits.

It should be that simple IMHO.
Consistency is important, and that "gray zone" that Developer mentions is a bad thing, absolutely agreed.

But the problem with that simple rule -- a close box closes, a quit command quits -- is that it eliminates a very useful behavior that (IMO) feels right, and makes a small, single window app easy to dismiss. There's a whole category of these small apps -- applets, of a sort. You want to use them, and then to go away very quickly.

There's a history of this behavior as well, since MacOS was introduced in 1984. I know that at first DAs weren't individual apps, but when they became real apps, users had come to expect that a "little app" like Calculator would quit when its only window was closed. It's been this way for a while...

So do you really want little apps like Calculator and OmniDictionary to hang around after you close the only window they use? (Well, I know some of your answers. ) I don't.

(Whether this rule should be widened to single-window apps like iPhoto and iMovie is different story. I'm not sure.)

But it's thorny -- I do agree the gray zone introduced when you're not sure whether an app is going to quit or not when you hit the close widget is really unpleasant. So perhaps:

- there should be a system-wide preference that controls some particular behaviors of single-window apps

- the close widget could show some subtle change if it will close the app

The other solution is that hitting the close widget should never close the app. This is great for consistency, but you lose a useful behavior. Plus, I think getting developers to do this would be very difficult. Just my opinion, but I suspect that users like this behavior -- for small apps, and if it's predictable.
     
ckohler
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Aug 20, 2003, 11:46 AM
 
When I first moved to the Mac platform a few years ago it really bothered me (and my PC using friends) that apps wouldn't quit when I closed all the Windows, particularly apps with only one window. It totally flew in the face of my years of Windows user exeriance.

Now that I've used the MacUI (OSX mostly), I apprecaite the separation between window and app. So I find it all the more ironic that Apple themselves seem to now be second-guessing this very basic UI rule in order to either add convienace or to simply cater to "switchers" expectations.
( Last edited by ckohler; Aug 20, 2003 at 04:13 PM. )
     
Simon
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Aug 20, 2003, 02:52 PM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Auto-hide is on. Auto-magnify is out of the question, as the processor hit involved interferes with audio work. Making the Dock any smaller (note that its tininess was already part of my problem) would make it close to useless.

But I can live with it, if it makes the world a better place.

I'm still on the fence on this one.

I'm beginning to think that you may be right, though.
Thanks for trying to make the world a better place. We need it.

I understand your problems with dock clutter and I'm not trying to put it on your imagination, it's just that I believe UI consistency is too crucial here to sacrifice it.

Originally posted by cybergoober:
Wasn't this also the behaviour of virtually every Control Panel in the Classic Mac OS?
Originally posted by lookmark:
There's a history of this behavior as well, since MacOS was introduced in 1984. I know that at first DAs weren't individual apps, but when they became real apps, users had come to expect that a "little app" like Calculator would quit when its only window was closed. It's been this way for a while...
Of course this behavior goes way back. And I'd say in the days of System 6 it made hell of a lot of sense. RAM was expensive, virtual mem was nowhere, etc.

But, thanks to OS X and its mem management and the low prices of RAM we do not these dirty tricks anymore. We are in a now unique position to live up to true UI consistency in this area.

As far as I'm concerned, Apple could really introduce a system-wide pref for what should be done in one-window apps. But that imposes new problems: What is a single-window app? Users have to know first. So the UI must reflect that a close will now quit, i.e, the round red button has to become green, ugly, terrifying and triangular or something. And what if the user wants to be able to influence this behavior on a per-app basis?

I think the cleanest solution would be to introduce a new widget in the window bar of "one-window" apps. Like an ugly fire-spitting triangle beside the close-button. A widget only single-window apps would get. But that introduces problems as well: Which apps really get it? Where should it be? To the left or the right of the close-button? Should it be on the other side so that the normal widgets don't get shifted (moved targets are a bad thing!), etc.

I think there is no clean and predictable, consistent way to solve this if you want the special behavior. That's why I simply suggest: Drop it.
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Ratm
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Aug 20, 2003, 03:28 PM
 
Originally posted by Mrjinglesusa:
[B]Questions like this will get this thread locked.
I was of course suggesting that users should upgrade when Apple officially releases Panther to the general public.

your head against this wall



     
Burana
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Aug 20, 2003, 03:28 PM
 
Originally posted by Phoenix1701:
[B]Here's a little something for everyone who has been talking about ZIP compression in the Finder. There are two other icons associated with that compression engine (which Apple is apparently abbreviating "bah" -- a very appropriate name given the general reaction!) other than ZIP files, however. I don't know much about either of the other formats, however, so perhaps someone with a bit more knowhow can tell me something about these:

It seems that these are icons for cpio files. The first one is for an uncompressed file, the second one is a gnu-zip-compressed cpio file.

Cpio-files are similar to tar files. Here is a comparison between the two formats: http://www.gnu.org/manual/tar/html_node/tar_125.html

Is tar also included? Otherwise I can only guess why it is used. Cpio can handle special files.
     
lookmark
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Aug 20, 2003, 04:00 PM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
I think the cleanest solution would be to introduce a new widget in the window bar of "one-window" apps. Like an ugly fire-spitting triangle beside the close-button. A widget only single-window apps would get.
Not sure if a whole new widget would be necessary. I think a subtle modification could work... similar to the dot in the close widget that warns a user that unsaved changes exist in a document. A small white X perhaps...



This plus a systemwide preference... It would be far preferable to eliminating the behavior altogether.

Originally posted by Simon:
As far as I'm concerned, Apple could really introduce a system-wide pref for what should be done in one-window apps. But that imposes new problems: What is a single-window app? Users have to know first. So the UI must reflect that a close will now quit, i.e, the round red button has to become green, ugly, terrifying and triangular or something. And what if the user wants to be able to influence this behavior on a per-app basis?
Great questions, but solvable, I think. I'd say a single-window app is an application that has a single window for the app's operations (not settings or preferences) and is not document based -- e.g. command-N opens a new window, not a new document.

But all users really need to know is whether clicking the close widget will close the window or quit the application.

Anyway, perhaps we should start a new thread if we want to continue this, to avoid hijacking poor 7B39.
     
Developer
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Aug 20, 2003, 04:34 PM
 
Originally posted by lookmark:
Not sure if a whole new widget would be necessary. I think a subtle modification could work... similar to the dot in the close widget that warns a user that unsaved changes exist in a document. A small white X perhaps...



This plus a systemwide preference... It would be far preferable to eliminating the behavior altogether.
People, please! This is too complicated. If you want to quit a single window app, quit the app. That's is a simple all-embracing consisten rule.
And quitting an app in the Dock is an easy single click operation.
Nasrudin sat on a river bank when someone shouted to him from the opposite side: "Hey! how do I get across?" "You are across!" Nasrudin shouted back.
     
mikemako
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Aug 20, 2003, 04:58 PM
 
..or why not just add it as a preference to each app individually & make the default to not quit when app window closed.
My Computer: MacBook Pro 2GHz, Mac OS X 10.4.5
     
diamondsw
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Aug 20, 2003, 05:04 PM
 
Originally posted by mikemako:
..or why not just add it as a preference to each app individually & make the default to not quit when app window closed.
Or rather, let third party developers add such a preference if they think they need it, but Apple should be leading the way in consistency.
     
brainchild2b  (op)
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Aug 20, 2003, 05:22 PM
 
No OS X has the best support for smart secure cards of any os. And that's a fact. Any company working with smart cards, and security of the like know about OS X. It's not something Apple makes a big deal about but they should. One of the largest research developers for the government is a lab at Purdue University in Indiana. They use all OS X for developing smart card access for government projects and .mil stuff.

Originally posted by gorickey:
Odd...
     
 
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