[willab]

I am looking at either a G4 1.25 Dual or G5 1.6. I will use use this machine machine for video work, mainly encoding mpeg2s. Which one will be faster for this?

[willab]

Anyone have mpeg2 encoding times for either machine?

[ckohler]

Yes. Please! Someone with a G5, try taking some video footage (just a minute of DV would be fine) and encode it. Let us know how long it takes.

[willab]

Originally posted by ckohler:
Yes. Please! Someone with a G5, try taking some video footage (just a minute of DV would be fine) and encode it. Let us know how long it takes.

Also someone with a G4 dual 1.25 or 1.42 tell us how long it takes.

Sorry, I guess I've already said this once.

[Angus_D]

I'd think that the dual G4 would be on par or faster, but I have no idea why.

[jcadam]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
I'd think that the dual G4 would be on par or faster, but I have no idea why.

I doubt it. This is a memory-CPU bandwidth intensive task we're talkin about. Even if the G4 is currently faster, a 64-bit (read: G5 optimized) encoder will rip the G4 a new orifice.

Besides, the 1.42 gig G4s aren't available anymore. (Well, the Apple website isn't selling them new).

[MusicalTone]

My money is on the G5. Not only is the processor power gonna be better but remember the new G5 bus architecture, and that you can have 8GB of RAM - just imagine how quick it could get through your files direct from RAM.

[willab]

I think I'll wait for G5 updates, then buy a G5. I'd still be interested in encoding times though.

[1_of_9]

I am not familiar with encoding video on mac's - it wasn't even an option until recently. On PC's I've been doing it since 1995, and I went with PC's for the same reason the SJ used x86 at Pixar over the mac platform...speed, hardware availablity, and software. Having said all that - I would expect the G5 to be about as fast - clock for clock as the Athlon xp's. Encoding is cpu bound,....ram, and fsb have little to do with the pure number crunching required. IF optimized for SIMD then that can make a huge difference, but by far the biggest gain is in SMP. I really doubt a single G5 could touch a dual G4 1 ghz...maybe a single G5 2.0ghz would be faster. As for a Dual G4 1.25 ghz - I would think that only the dual 2.0 ghz G5 could outperform it. When I encode on my dual 2.0ghz athlon 2400mp the second processor gives me 85-90% faster encode times depending on which apppication I use. (All of which are SMP aware) Assuming the same smp issues on the mac...then I'd get the dual G5 2.0ghz...then next the dual G4 1.42, or 1.25 ghz. I have been encoding faster than real time for a little over two years now - and I'm curious how well the dual G5 will do - I hope it is fast, cause compettion is great for all us end users.

[MusicalTone]

Originally posted by 1_of_9:
I am not familiar with encoding video on mac's - it wasn't even an option until recently. .

Dream on Pal. Global warming isnt real either.

ps. anything to do with Video on a PC sucks

[1_of_9]

Originally posted by MusicalTone:
Dream on Pal. Global warming isnt real either.

ps. anything to do with Video on a PC sucks

I resemble that remark...really. Did you know that the average world wide temperature has dropped .6C over the last 50 years? Guess you do. Enlighten me, exactly what sucks about video editting on the PC? IS it the fact of more available video codecs, or even more audio codecs on the PC? Is it the ablitlty to render easily out of the box without outrageously expensive addon hardware (not true the last two years - but prior) - come on, get real. Mac has only been fast at editting video recently...the G5 will bring it to parity with the PC/Linux realm. But I'm game to learn anything new. So, tell me how PC's suck, and why mac rulz...fcp, fcp....cough

[James L]

I am a Mac nut, but I gotta tell ya...if the PC couldn't handle video then it wouldn't be in use in some of the major video companies around...like Pixar for example. This is taken from a news item on MacNN a few months ago:


"Pixar Animation Studios -- which shares CEO Steve Jobs with Apple Computer -- is switching from Sun Microsystems to Intel, according to c|net. The film studio is replacing servers from Sun in its render farm with eight new servers from Rackspace. In all, the blade system contains 1,024 Intel 2.8GHz Xeon processors, and it runs the open-source Linux operating system. As part of the switch to Intel for rendering, Pixar has ported its Renderman software to run on Linux. Sun and AMD both submitted bids on the Pixar deal. At Macworld in January, Intel President Paul Otellini sat in the front row for Steve Jobs' keynote as a VIP guest of Apple. Later in January, Jobs delivered the morning keynote address at Intel's annual sales conference in Las Vegas."


If you look at a lot of the heavy duty Multimedia programs at schools, they are often taught on pc's too.

I hope the G5 changes all this, but the truth is that the PC CAN do video.... as much as we would like to deny the fact!

[1_of_9]

I hope the G5 changes all this..."

James, you have integrity...that is something I can respect. And I hope (really I expect) the G5 to change it all as well. It makes us all have more choice, and usually the competetion drives prices down. Desktop video is the DTP of the 1990's - the choice of applications is getting to be like the cereal isle of the grocery store.

[klinux]

I use a PC to encode my DVDs to DivX files so I can have something like 20 movies on my laptop without carrying 20 DVDs.

For me at least, a cheap PC with a fast processor does a much better and faster job at this than Macs.

Although, I have yet to give ffmpegx a try...

[BrettOZ]

Originally posted by 1_of_9:
I am not familiar with encoding video on mac's - it wasn't even an option until recently. On PC's I've been doing it since 1995

Umm Quicktime has been encoding Video since Version 1 back in 1991? Haven't they ?

http://www.retiariusenterprises.com/...e/history.html

[willab]

What software do you use on the PC to encode mpegs?

[scottiB]

If one's using Cleaner or Compressor, I'd think the G5. Both are heavily Alti-vec optimized, and the G5's unit, while not as efficient as the last G4's, can crunch through more data because the bus is much wider.

James, not to pick nits, but Pixar is an animation studio, not a video company. The Intel boxen that were purchased were for 3-D animation--and all that that entails (global illumination, caustics, etc.)--not encoding video.

[James L]

True... and I can't argue with that. The fact is however, that a top end pc, or even upper middle class, CAN handle video and video editing fine.

I have owned Macs since 1988 or so, and I always will. I actually used my first one in 1984! I guess I find it amusing though when people's posts read as if they got defensive that someone suggested that, heaven forbid, a PC can do something the Mac can do... maybe even better. Before the G5 the simple fact of the matter is that Apple did fall behind PC land in hardware... benchmark after bench mark proved that. No one should get defensive about that, it's fact. Apple is now catching up, and I hope SJ is right in his claim that Apple will be at 3GHZ by next July. I want nothing more than to have Apple as king of the castle.

I work in multimedia as a web designer, with some print media thrown in. I have seen pc platforms used in heavy duty graphic work, Photoshop work, and even commercial and film editing work. It can rock in games too.

BUT, the truth of the matter, none of the above matters to me. I love my Macs. I'll always love my Macs. I am a realist however, and realize that the PC world has not been standing still over the last decade either!

Thanks for correcting me on the pixar mistake,

Cheers!

[MusicalTone]

Originally posted by 1_of_9:
I resemble that remark...really. Did you know that the average world wide temperature has dropped .6C over the last 50 years? Guess you do. Enlighten me, exactly what sucks about video editting on the PC? IS it the fact of more available video codecs, or even more audio codecs on the PC? Is it the ablitlty to render easily out of the box without outrageously expensive addon hardware (not true the last two years - but prior) - come on, get real. Mac has only been fast at editting video recently...the G5 will bring it to parity with the PC/Linux realm. But I'm game to learn anything new. So, tell me how PC's suck, and why mac rulz...fcp, fcp....cough

Well, I am currently trying to view an MP4 on my PC and guess what, windows media player doesnt support it! One of the reasons I switched from PC to Mac was because of the lack of proper video support on the PC - I mean come on Pinnacle is a joke - firewire doesnt work - and the whole experience is a mess unless you want to pay 1000's of pounds.

[MusicalTone]

Originally posted by James L:
I am a Mac nut, but I gotta tell ya...if the PC couldn't handle video then it wouldn't be in use in some of the major video companies around...like Pixar for example. This is taken from a news item on MacNN a few months ago:


"Pixar Animation Studios -- which shares CEO Steve Jobs with Apple Computer -- is switching from Sun Microsystems to Intel, according to c|net. The film studio is replacing servers from Sun in its render farm with eight new servers from Rackspace. In all, the blade system contains 1,024 Intel 2.8GHz Xeon processors, and it runs the open-source Linux operating system. As part of the switch to Intel for rendering, Pixar has ported its Renderman software to run on Linux. Sun and AMD both submitted bids on the Pixar deal. At Macworld in January, Intel President Paul Otellini sat in the front row for Steve Jobs' keynote as a VIP guest of Apple. Later in January, Jobs delivered the morning keynote address at Intel's annual sales conference in Las Vegas."


If you look at a lot of the heavy duty Multimedia programs at schools, they are often taught on pc's too.

I hope the G5 changes all this, but the truth is that the PC CAN do video.... as much as we would like to deny the fact!

Render farms?! We are talking desktop systems, or at least I thought we were.

Have you tried "multimedia" on a PC? Nothing is integrated and it is hard work.

[MusicalTone]

Originally posted by 1_of_9:
Did you know that the average world wide temperature has dropped .6C over the last 50 years?

What a load of total rubbish. World temperature has risen more than any time in the past 2,000 years during the past 100, i.e. the 20th Century. I guess you are gonna say fossil fuels are not bad for the enironment too ... idiot!

[James L]

Well, you can call it rubbish and insult people all you want MusicalTone... but the bottom line is that all you are doing is being rude and acting superior, which I doubt very little that you are in any way.

I have simply stated fact, that PC's are in use in many areas of the video editing world. As I stated in a later post, I have seen them used for high end video editing, commercial production, etc. I have also seen Macs used in the same environment. I don't see what the big deal is. Are you that insecure that the fact that a platform different than the one we choose to use is in use in this field bug you that much...that you come back with insults and calling other peoples thoughts rubbish?

You can continue with your snobbish insults if you like, calling other people idiots and thier thoughts rubbish, but they serve no purpose in this conversation. I guess if this make you feel better about yourself though fill your boots.

I'll be busy using the Mac that I love!

Not a switch, but a mac user since the beginning

[MusicalTone]

Originally posted by James L:
Well, you can call it rubbish and insult people all you want MusicalTone... but the bottom line is that all you are doing is being rude and acting superior, which I doubt very little that you are in any way.

I have simply stated fact, that PC's are in use in many areas of the video editing world. As I stated in a later post, I have seen them used for high end video editing, commercial production, etc. I have also seen Macs used in the same environment. I don't see what the big deal is. Are you that insecure that the fact that a platform different than the one we choose to use is in use in this field bug you that much...that you come back with insults and calling other peoples thoughts rubbish?

You can continue with your snobbish insults if you like, calling other people idiots and thier thoughts rubbish, but they serve no purpose in this conversation. I guess if this make you feel better about yourself though fill your boots.

I'll be busy using the Mac that I love!

Not a switch, but a mac user since the beginning

James, I am sorry - but anyone who thinks global warming is not happening is an idiot in my book - pc user or mac. As for the video stuff - I thought we were comparing desktop systems, not million dollar render farms and the like.

By the way, welcome to you and 1_of_9 to this forum!

[Michel_80]

Encoding to Divx (3ivx or whathever - formats which allow you to place a movie into one cd) is better on the PC by a country mile. That is a fact and you can't argue with it.
It is quite complicated though, I use Avisynth and VDubMod to do the encoding on my PC laptop.

[juanpacolopez]

Originally posted by 1_of_9:
I resemble that remark...really. Did you know that the average world wide temperature has dropped .6C over the last 50 years? Guess you do. Enlighten me, exactly what sucks about video editting on the PC? IS it the fact of more available video codecs, or even more audio codecs on the PC? Is it the ablitlty to render easily out of the box without outrageously expensive addon hardware (not true the last two years - but prior) - come on, get real. Mac has only been fast at editting video recently...the G5 will bring it to parity with the PC/Linux realm. But I'm game to learn anything new. So, tell me how PC's suck, and why mac rulz...fcp, fcp....cough

*cough* Windows troll alert *cough*

Seriously friend, don't speak about things which you obviously have no (or very little) knowledge of.

Video editing (in the consumer sense) got it's start on the Mac, NOT the PC. Not only that, but what "add-on" hardware are you talking about needing for a Mac that you wouldn't for a PC? Mac's have had firewire connections far longer... the only thing I think you could be referring to would be an analog s-video or composite input... which isn't "free" on a PC either. Name _one_ major label PC that came with composite input STANDARD before the Media Center PC's from HP/Dell?

Secondly, and this is the most important part, you say the PC is a "great" video editing solution? Tell me... exactly what professional video editing software for the PC do you recommend? Let's go down a small part of the list (consumer and pro alike):

Premiere - Let's face it, it's an FCP wanna be. They copied the interface (badly) and made it entirely too obtuse. Also, when was the last time you saw realtime effects rendering in Premiere? There's a reason the Mac version was cancelled... no one in their right mind would buy this stinking pile over FCP.

Windows Movie Maker - I shouldn't even need to comment. Anyone even remotely familiar with this knows how bad it sucks.

Ulead Video Composer (I think that's what it's called) - get real... makes WMM look like a pro app.

And finally, we have Avid. I saved this for last for a reason.

Avid is a GREAT piece of software (Media Composer that is... no experience w/ Express DV). It runs equally well on the Mac and PC (I think) and is overall a "good thing". However, Avid is FAR outside the price range of most individual buyers (especially if you get the whole DNA suite) and should be considered, in every way, a pro-production app. In this sense I'm sure there are more PC's running Avid as opposed to Macs just due to the relative price difference in hardware. Since it's essentially the same (excellent) solution for BOTH platforms, I don't think it really qualifies for my little shootout.

[willab]

Alright so as a result of this thread I have learned that I should use a PC for encoding, that would work I have plenty, but no one will tell what apps to use, or give me render times on a dual G4 or a G5, or a PC.
Please help me!

[1_of_9]

Originally posted by willab:
Alright so as a result of this thread I have learned that I should use a PC for encoding, that would work I have plenty, but no one will tell what apps to use, or give me render times on a dual G4 or a G5, or a PC.
Please help me!

willab, I am sorry that I managed to get this thread off topic. I'm curious about the G5's abilities as well. My opinion is get the dual 2.0ghz, or then the dual G4's. In windows land I use lots of applications. Vegas v4 (a good lite version is called video factory about $90), TMPGEnc DVD Author, TMPGEnc as well for mpeg's v1 & and 2, Vdub for Avi's. For encoding dvd's, and captures to xvid I've been using flask, xmpeg, and vdub again. Vdub is really a wonderful little - deep program. It's free, and it is the photoshop of avi video editting, with a plugin basis. I can construct filter chains that will choke tha fastest machine to 1-2 fps. You asked about encoding times. It all depends on what format and application I'm using, and to what format I'm encoding to. If I'm doing audio at the same time or not. I did I little five minute clip in Vegas last night with audio to dvd mpeg2 - it encoded at just under 40fps. When I rip a DVD and use Flask - encoding to xvid (which is better than divx) it encodes at 32fps...exact same rip in xmpeg will encode at 45fps. So, application can make a difference. If the output is something like svcd, or vcd I can encode at over 100fps. I could go on and on, but i really think you want to know which G5 to get - right? Dual is the way to go! I can't stress that enough. And there are people in this this thread that don't even know the difference between encoding and decoding video. I'd keep that in mind when factoring their advice.

[willab]

I finally found some times for the G5 1.6. jclarkv put a 10:31 clip into iDVD and the encoding took 8:51. I'm pretty impressed.