[Horsepoo!!!]

climber, I'm not going to go through this again...check the ****ing follow up links or gtfo. I don't know why we have to go around in circles like this.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by climber 

Please enlighten me on your camera/lens with perfect optics. And even if you have the holy grail of lenses at your disposal, do you really think they NASA has something that good? after all they were the ones who spent billions putting a horribly myopic telescope in orbit.

I'm playing games with you and everyone else. I know full well this stuff isn't debris and everyone else should have known this from my third post follow up links. But nobody's actually looked at the links...everyone's still fixated by the first video blissfully ignorant that this is filmed at UV light frequencies and that there's more footage of these things changing direction and velocities.

I guarantee people will continue to ignore the 2nd and 3rd video link I provided and will continue to be fixated by the first video which is just a morsel of info.

I do find it highly amusing to hear everyone's wildly differing justifications though...as wrong as they are.

I know people will find some of the dumbest excuses yet to explain the 2nd and 3rd link. I just can't wait to see those excuses tomorrow morning.

I think at this point it's either going to be a dumb excuse or a bunch of people that cry 'HOAX'. This stuff aired on national TV.

[climber]

Ok lets suppose for a moment they are alien space craft, why would NASA want to cover it up for all these years, heck with "facts" like that they could have had 100 times the budget.

[Railroader]

Horsepoo threads are like infomercials late at night. You know the suck, you know they are spewing skewed info, you would be embarrassed reading them in daylight hours, but you are oddly attracted to them and have a hard time not reading them.

[Tiresias]

Yes! Yes I do need a kitchen knife that can cut through a tennis shoe!

[invisibleX]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

It reacts intelligently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF6QmQf13VU

No, "it" does not. There isn't anything intelligent about moving. Frickin slime mold moves.

Looks oddly like the same force acted on both objects. Almost like they remained stationary but the observer moved, and due to relative distance the other objects in view did not.

[invisibleX]

My other question: Why are they transparent? Any reason at all?


I haven't the faintest clue what those smudges are and neither does anyone else. Claiming there intelligent life is making a pretty huge leap from "blurry blob" to "visitors from other planets" without the slightest crumb of evidence.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by invisibleX 

without the slightest crumb of evidence.

The word evidence is to ufology what Kryptonite is to Superman.

[invisibleX]

Originally Posted by Tiresias 

The word evidence is to ufology what Kryptonite is to Superman.

Ah, but what is evidence? Checkmate!

Railroader is so right...

[Gator Lager]

aaah, never mind.

[Andrew Stephens]

Yeah 'cos those Astronauts (who are actually observing the incident) sound really excited about all those UFO's swirling around them don't they.

No, wait. Something at 1.43. Blink and you miss it..

 

[Horsepoo!!!]

Let's see what's happened in this thread so far:

- I show a video. People say "Nothing to see here...space debris...boring."
- I show a second and third video of the different behaviors of these objects. People are still fixated on the idea of space debris and light tricks, ignoring the other two videos.
- I tell people this stuff is filmed at UV light frequencies (to better show the charged up 10 meter *wide* tether which probably would be impossible to see at 80 nautical miles). People, smug asses that they are, still claim space debris refracting light...some people think dust...some blame poor camera and light that is "just right" (what the **** does that mean anyway? "**** I can't film anything, the light is 'just right'")
- I insist that people watch the 2nd and 3rd video and some people finally do. The position has shifted. It's not space debris anymore. Now people don't know what to really think and the only thing they capable of saying is "But, but...NASA wouldn't lie."

Why wouldn't NASA lie? Is there a particular reason why these guys can't lie? Does everyone think that the military aircrafts haven't been developed behind closed doors in the past? Nobody's going to tell you if there's a new advanced military craft in the sky. That would take away the fun of surprising enemies.

Anyway...invisibleX, like sound waves, light wave can vary in frequencies. If you're listening to a sound wave that is slowly increasing its frequency from 0Hz to say 30kHz, you'll hear nothing at first, then you'll start hearing a low pitch sound moving its way up to a high pitched sound which suddenly gets fainter and fainter until you stop hearing it. Was the volume turned down to zero? No...dogs could still hear what you're not hearing. Your ear drums have simply stopped perceiving sound beyond that range.

Well it's the same thing with light...humans can only see the visible light spectrum. The lower hertz infrared spectrum and the higher hertz ultraviolet spectrum (or x-rays or gamma-rays).

Here's the deal...not all objects in this universe can clearly be seen at the visible light spectrum. Some objects become nearly invisible and other become visible at higher frequencies. Same deal with lower frequencies. Not every object has characteristics that fit perfectly in the visible light range.

These objects can become transparent because they're not always refracting light in the UV light range. The object would then become transparent or vanish since the camera is only filming a certain UV light range.

These things seem to sometimes be pulsating, sometimes becoming extremely bright, sometimes becoming transparent, sometimes disappearing or reappearing out of thin air. They're not actually disappearing out of thin air, they are just increasing their energy or decreasing their energy beyond UV frequencies.

Say you're watching something really hot cool down to zero K. On infrared, you'd see a red splotch slowly become invisible. The thing hasn't disappeared though...it's just got heat signatures that can't be seen in the infrared range.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens 

Yeah 'cos those Astronauts (who are actually observing the incident) sound really excited about all those UFO's swirling around them don't they.

They don't sound excited, they sound asleep at the wheel. They're sometimes asked a question and on at least one occasion you never actually hear an answer from the astronauts.

You gotta understand that the public audio channel (the one broadcasted with the video feed to us dummies) isn't the only channel. NASA has encrypted private channels. If you think that there's no communication going on between the pauses and the "can you describe which way the satellite is visible on that strand" silence, you're sadly mistaken.

Of course what you can't know for sure must not be true. Horsepoo is a conspiracy theorist. NASA would never lie. But they would film a dumb ****ing charged tether with your tax money. If you truly believe they would do that, you might as well take your US money and flush it down the drain.

I'm starting to think the only intelligent life really is out there...it's certainly not here. Some of you have grown so skeptical that your capacity to reason is the equivalent of that of an eggplant.

The King **** attitude here is disgusting. When you guys finally figure out that NASA has been withholding truth, the first thing that'll pop out of your mouth will be "I knew that". It's funny how everyone's opinions shifted from "debris" to "NASA doesn't lie".

What is it folks? Is it debris? NASA clearly states that it's debris. That's some bizarre debris if it can get in a circular formation or dart out into space defying gravity. You guys are trying very hard. I can smell cooking neurons. Yum.

[analogika]

"Some things are so wrong that not even their opposite is true."

-Karl Kraus.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

It reacts intelligently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF6QmQf13VU

What? How can you possibly, possibly make that claim?

Two bits of whatever are accelerating. There are a million possible reasons for this. Collisions, light changes, whatever. Space is far from empty and stuff bounces around all the time. So still, no proof of any kind, just speculation.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Like I said, some of you are so skeptical, you'll *never* believe it even if they came down to Earth to officially meet us. Blurry pictures and videos are too blurry to be conclusive. Sharp videos or pictures are deeeefinitely the product of CGI/Photoshop/MS Paint.

Selective science...use some and ignore the rest. That will for sure explain things fully.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

What? How can you possibly, possibly make that claim?

Two bits of whatever are accelerating. There are a million possible reasons for this. Collisions, light changes, whatever. Space is far from empty and stuff bounces around all the time. So still, no proof of any kind, just speculation.

Do you know anything about physics? I'm beginning to suspect that none of you have passed a science class.

What's the next explanation...some baseball player batting this thing far into space? wtf...LOGIC PLEASE.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Of course what you can't know for sure must not be true. Horsepoo is a conspiracy theorist. NASA would never lie. But they would film a dumb ****ing charged tether with your tax money. If you truly believe they would do that, you might as well take your US money and flush it down the drain.

The first sentence quoted is the very definition of logical truth. We can't logically prove something as true unless we are sure of what we know about it, about what we are trying to prove as true. So yeah, if you want to be logical than yes, if "you can't know for sure" about something then it "must not be true".

I usually just subscribe to Occam's Razor in almost all matters and I can't fathom how "intelligent alien life in a space-ship" is the simplest, most basic explanation for what we see in these videos. I have no doubt intelligent alien life does exist--How could we be the only intelligent beings in the whole of the Universe--but these video clips in no way "prove" to me the existence of intelligent alien life.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Like I said, some of you are so skeptical, you'll *never* believe it even if they came down to Earth to officially meet us.

Not me. I believe in the existence of intelligent alien life, I just don't believe we (the planetary collective we) have had any major encounters with it yet. You gotta remember, if some alien life form is going to contact humans on Earth, they are going to contact all humans--not American humans, not Japanese humans, not Maldivian humans, but ALL humans. So yeah, I do expect our first major encounter with alien life to be in the form of a formal greeting party coming down to earth "to officially meet us".*


*I always kinda liked how it was portrayed in Star Trek: First Contact. Some alien race is zipping through some non-descript corner of space and notices the "locals" have gotten advanced enough to be able to do the same thing (i.e.: interstellar space travel). So, they decide to stop on by to meet the locals.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Do you know anything about physics? I'm beginning to suspect that none of you have passed a science class.

What's the next explanation...some baseball player batting this thing far into space? wtf...LOGIC PLEASE.

Take your own advice. So far you've been rambling, speculating and ranting. No coherent argument as far as the eye can see. PROOF PLEASE, not empty speculation.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Take your own advice. So far you've been rambling, speculating and ranting. No coherent argument as far as the eye can see. PROOF PLEASE, not empty speculation.

I am providing evidence and you guys have shifted your opinions from "debris", to "NASA doesn't lie", to your new theory of "debris colliding with something". This constant shifting in explanations shows me that most of you have no clue what you're talking about.

Again, I ask you this...why would the Columbia endanger itself in such an environment...if those 'debris' pieces 'colliding' with other objects hit the Columbia at that speed, it would be game over.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Take your own advice. So far you've been rambling, speculating and ranting. No coherent argument as far as the eye can see. PROOF PLEASE, not empty speculation.

Listen poo, Mastrap makes a good point. Everything you've said so far about this topic is based on speculation. You speculate there are ships two-miles wide in the tether video and (in another video) you speculate that the two items seen moving in what appears to be a parallel direction are alien space ships. All of this is speculation. Again, I must fall back on Occam's Razor and ask if the simplest, most basic explanation for what is seen in these video clips is in fact intelligent alien life moving about in their space ships. And I don't think that intelligent alien life is the simplest, most basic answer to the question of "what is that stuff seen moving in the background of these images?".

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Listen poo, Mastrap makes a good point. Everything you've said so far about this topic is based on speculation. You speculate there are ships two-miles wide in the tether video and (in another video) you speculate that the two items seen moving in what appears to be a parallel direction are alien space ships. All of this is speculation. Again, I must fall back on Occam's Razor and ask if the simplest, most basic explanation for what is seen in these video clips is in fact intelligent alien life moving about in their space ships. And I don't think that intelligent alien life is the simplest, most basic answer to the question of "what is that stuff seen moving in the background of these images?".

Why can it not be the most basic, simplest answer? So far my answer has been the simplest considering the effort put into trying to explain it otherwise through the idea of space debris, light refraction, NASA not lying, etc.

I picked these videos because they're highly unlikely hoaxes having been broadcasted publicly 12 years ago. Had I picked other videos, people would have cried 'HOAX'. The hoax excuse isn't valid but I now see people trying to explain this with 'bad science' (someone directed me to "Bad Astronomy" a week or two ago because of his unbridled faith in science...well here's your own medecine, guys. Drink up.)

[Railroader]

I think horsepoo has quite a few guys set on the hook and is now playing with his prize. He has the drag set low. Bait, hook, set, play.

[Tiresias]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Horsepoo!!! is probably about 13 years old?

Go easy on the young tyke.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Why can it not be the most basic, simplest answer? So far my answer has been the simplest considering the effort put into trying to explain it otherwise through the idea of space debris, light refraction, NASA not lying, etc.

I picked these videos because they're highly unlikely hoaxes having been broadcasted publicly 12 years ago. Had I picked other videos, people would have cried 'HOAX'. The hoax excuse isn't valid but I now see people trying to explain this with 'bad science' (someone directed me to "Bad Astronomy" a week or two ago because of his unbridled faith in science...well here's your own medecine, guys. Drink up.)

OK. Tell us why "intelligent alien life in space ships" is the simplest, most basic answer to the questions of "what is that we see moving?" in the background of the various video clips you have presented to us.

So, tell us why "intelligent alien life in space ships" is a simpler, more basic explanation than anything else? more simple than space dust/debris? more simple than light effects, more simple than any other idea proffered as a possible answer to the question. What logical evidence makes "intelligent alien life in space ships" the most basic answer to this question of "what is that stuff?".

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I think horsepoo has quite a few guys set on the hook and is now playing with his prize. He has the drag set low. Bait, hook, set, play.

I'm not the one with shifting opinions. Am I going to have to shootdown every possible nonsensical explanation? I'd have make MacNN posting a full-time job.

"It's debris because it doesn't change course"...yes, it does change course
"Oh, but it changes course because there's lots of stuff in space, it's colliding with other stuff"
"It's light refraction"...ok, so this debris is refracting a lot of UV light *and* it's changing velocity and course
"Camera lens trickery!"...yeah, where can I get a camera that makes things floating in front of a 80 mile far object look like it's going *behind* it. I need one of those badly.
"NASA never lies"...yeah, like the Pentagon reveals everything to the public, also we've stopped working on military aircrafts in the late 70s early 80s.
"Occam's Razor...alien life isn't the simplest answer. The simplest answer is debris reflecting light combined with camera trickery, NASA cannot lie and they're gonna risk a multimillion space mission and send a bunch of people in a debris field, subject to a dash of celestial collisions no less, to film a stupid tether and some storms on Earth" - Riiiight. I want to believe!

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Tiresias 

Does anyone else get the feeling that Horsepoo!!! is probably about 13 years old?

Go easy on the young tyke.

I'm convinced he is Abe in one of his bouts where he goes off his meds and gets progressively wackier.

• The intense insistence on one's ideas as being correct (not only correct but definitively, absolutely correct)
• The repetitive nature of the claims (especially the repetitive word/phrase usage)
• The seeming ability to write terrific amounts of material in short time spans (Look at the time stamps between some of poo's missives and you will see he is writing quite a few words in a short period of time)

All of this makes me feel fairly confident that poo = Abe. And if I am wrong then Abe has a fellow narcissistic conspiracy-buff here on the boards. Yeah for us.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

I'm not the one with shifting opinions. Am I going to have to shootdown every possible nonsensical explanation? I'd have make MacNN posting a full-time job.

"It's debris because it doesn't change course"...yes, it does change course
"Oh, but it changes course because there's lots of stuff in space, it's colliding with other stuff"
"It's light refraction"...ok, so this debris is refracting a lot of UV light *and* it's changing velocity and course
"Camera lens trickery!"...yeah, where can I get a camera that makes things floating in front of a 80 mile far object look like it's going *behind* it. I need one of those badly.
"NASA never lies"...yeah, like the Pentagon reveals everything to the public, also we've stopped working on military aircrafts in the late 70s early 80s.
"Occam's Razor...alien life isn't the simplest answer. The simplest answer is debris reflecting light combined with camera trickery, NASA cannot lie and they're gonna risk a multimillion space mission and send a bunch of people in a debris field, subject to a dash of celestial collisions no less, to film a stupid tether and some storms on Earth" - Riiiight. I want to believe!

You're gonna need different bait.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

I'm convinced he is Abe in one of his bouts where he goes off his meds and gets progressively wackier.

That would make total sense.

[Railroader]

This thread reminds me of a very difficult to capture subject: the sunbeam

[Horsepoo!!!]

Alright...I'm wrong, you're all right. It's space debris.

If you live in the US, be glad your tax money is going to cowboy-debris-junkyards-navigators to film charged strands and looking at storms from above. Fantastic country you guys live in.

Had you guys been born 700 years earlier, you'd be convinced the world was flat. Nothing wrong with that though.

[Tiresias]

Why don't we just agree to disagree Poo? This thread ain't going nowhere.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Alright...I'm wrong, you're all right. It's space debris.

If you live in the US, be glad your tax money is going to cowboy-debris-junkyards-navigators to film charged strands and looking at storms from above. Fantastic country you guys live in.

Had you guys been born 700 years earlier, you'd be convinced the world was flat. Nothing wrong with that though.

Still not biting.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Tiresias 

Why don't we just agree to disagree Poo? This thread ain't going nowhere.

Well...let's agree that in those videos there's insufficient evidence that these objects are floating debris and that there's insufficient evidence that these objects are actually crafts or ET entities.

None of you have provided sufficient evidence that this is debris. And I suppose I have not provided sufficient evidence that this stuff can't be debris.

I won't force you guys to do you homework. These are not the only 3 videos that exist. I know most of you are disinterested in this subject and, excuse me for saying, ignorant of the available data. That's ok. People pick and choose what they like to learn about. But, please, do your homework if you want to stop being ignorant about the subject.

There are many astronauts that have made suggestions that they weren't alone out there without outright saying it. Buzz Aldrin, for example, has made these suggestions many times. There are sightings of this "debris" floating down to Earth and then shooting back up into the sky. Videos of it no less. Of course, it *must* be a hoax.

Anyway...I won't force you guys but you *should* really do your homework. Dismissing it and refusing to get more information based on conclusions that this is debris is inexcusable.

[paul w]

I hate when people force me to do my homework. Especially when they go by the name Horsepoo!!!

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by paul w 

I hate when people force me to do my homework. Especially when they go by the name Horsepoo!!!

When things don't go your way, attack the person instead of the data. I applaud you.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Well...let's agree that in those videos there's insufficient evidence that these objects are floating debris and that there's insufficient evidence that these objects are actually crafts or ET entities.

Excellent.

However, as I insinuated above, you're all wrong.

Because, see, I have it on good authority that these "particles" are not of alien origin at all, but are actually pan-dimensional warheads being tested by secret advanced military physics labs in Red China.

You can't disprove that, so it must be true.


My other theory is that Horsepoo! is a Weekly World News editor out of work since the paper folded. See what the faltering economy does to people?

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

When things don't go your way, attack the person instead of the data. I applaud you.

I'm sorry, I have this thing about homework. Especially when it's vague.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Excellent.

However, as I insinuated above, you're all wrong.

Because, see, I have it on good authority that these "particles" are not of alien origin at all, but are actually pan-dimensional warheads being tested by secret advanced military physics labs in Red China.

You can't disprove that, so it must be true.

They could be such things. If you base yourself on small amounts of data such as the 3 videos. They're more likely to be pan-dimensional warheads being tested by secret advanced military physics labs in Red China than space debris because of the way they can actually change direction and accelerate to high velocities in a matter of a fraction of a second. Put some nice rocket boosters on this warheads and there you go.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by paul w 

I'm sorry, I have this thing about homework.

It shows. You seem to be ignorant about a lot of things.

edit: a lot of people here seem to praise science. The conflict here is that these same people seem totally clueless when it comes to science notions. Pulling answers from their asses and making **** up to try and prove a point.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Here's a challenge: the first person that finds a video showing more evidence that these crafts have variable energy levels and the frequency of the light wave refracted from them changes, wins the challenge.

Remember, in the video you see these objects become transparent or very bright in UV light ranges. In essence, I'm saying these things are constantly changing their energy.

Ready...set...go...

[Tiresias]

Please to explain how these "science notions" you are so well versed in support your contention that cislunar space is swarming with flying saucers.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

It shows. You seem to be ignorant about a lot of things.

Who's attacking who? You may be 100% correct. You just happen to be doing a pooor job presenting your case.

And your user name makes me giggle. Is that so wrong?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Tiresias 

Please to explain how these "science notions" you are so well versed in support your contention that cislunar space is swarming with flying saucers.

That's part of my challenge to you...read it. I will eventually show you more evidence to supports that these objects are not from this planet...first I want to see people find videos of sightings of these crafts/entities and find more evidence that these crafts are changing their energy.

I can't be the only one doing the homework...it would be too easy for you guys and you won't try to educate yourself on the subject.

I hope you guys are never part of jury. Most of you have the finger-in-ears-lalalala attitude. Some dude could have murdered someone in public. But, being biased, you truly believe this guy did not murder anyone. Eye witness testimonies would be brought forward but you can't trust those guys, right? That's not evidence, right? Security camera tapes would then be brought to the court's attention, but those things can be hoaxed, right? That's not evidence either. The killer could openly confess to the murder, but he might be crazy and not be telling the truth. Put all the evidence together and you still would call it inconclusive evidence.

Even science would never progress. Every lab results put together would be inconclusive data.

I know some people here are a lost cause. I could present 1000 videos of these same crafts and they'd still not believe it. But I trust some of you still have a shred of intelligence to eventually say "enough is enough, after the 30th video, I can finally say with 95% certainty that these things are crafts not from this world (or perhaps secret project from this world)."

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

That's part of my challenge to you...read it. I will eventually show you more evidence to supports that these objects are not from this planet...first I want to see people find videos of sightings of these crafts/entities and find more evidence that these crafts are changing their energy.

I can't be the only one doing the homework...it would be too easy for you guys and you won't try to educate yourself on the subject.

I hope you guys are never part of jury. Most of you have the finger-in-ears-lalalala attitude. Some dude could have murdered someone in public. But, being biased, you truly believe this guy did not murder anyone. Eye witness testimonies would be brought forward but you can't trust those guys, right? That's not evidence, right? Security camera tapes would then be brought to the court's attention, but those things can be hoaxed, right? That's not evidence either. The killer could openly confess to the murder, but he might be crazy and not be telling the truth. Put all the evidence together and you still would call it inconclusive evidence.

Even science would never progress. Every lab results put together would be inconclusive data.

I know some people here are a lost cause. I could present 1000 videos of these same crafts and they'd still not believe it. But I trust some of you still have a shred of intelligence to eventually say "enough is enough, after the 30th video, I can finally say with 95% certainty that these things are crafts not from this world (or perhaps secret project from this world).

Burden of proof fail.

[Mastrap]

As in, totally. Also, comparison fail.

[TheWOAT]

"Rods" in space.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Here's a challenge: the first person that finds a video showing more evidence that these crafts have variable energy levels and the frequency of the light wave refracted from them changes, wins the challenge.

Remember, in the video you see these objects become transparent or very bright in UV light ranges. In essence, I'm saying these things are constantly changing their energy.

Ready...set...go...

#1 - What makes you think that's a UV camera?

#2 - I just watched the video again (watched it back in 2002 when this was discussed to death) - not a SINGLE ONE of the particles EVER changed direction. The whole field of view turned a couple of times as the camera was adjusted, and the guy operating it kept changing focus and zoom to try and get a clean shot of the tether.

#3 - you very obviously have never spent any time whatsoever playing with an SLR camera and a manual-focus zoom lens. For all your talk of physics and "bad science"...

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by analogika 

My other theory is that Horsepoo! is a Weekly World News editor out of work since the paper folded. See what the faltering economy does to people?

I love the News. It is where I was first introduced to the Garth Brooks Juice Diet™.