[Captain Obvious]

174,136,341 Americans between the ages of 18-64
62, 500, 000 Americans watched the debate (highest quoted number there are lower estimates)
Or 35% of the population.
21.1 million people watched Survivor last night, 7.6 of those people tuned out when the debate began these are the people whose votes are being fought over.

102 million people voted in 2000
123 million people were registered to vote
198 million people are eligible to register

So about HALF of people who are registered to vote watched the first debate last night.
The next debate is on a Friday on the same night as a MLB playoff game. Even less people will watch the second debate. Even less of a chance swing voters will be watching.

The people who will decide the election did not watch the debate. You all may care who won and who will win these first two debates but the people whose votes will make the difference do not. They have less of an attention span then you. They don't care about the nuances of the arguments or the poise of the candidates because they will only see 2 minutes of highlights of the debate. Only the best and the worst 15 second clips. Among all of you one would expect there would be more people bright enough to realize this but apparently that is too much to hope for because you have spent four threads and dozens of pages talking to people who do not need to be persuaded.

[BRussell]

I think what can happen is that the media spin on the campaign can change. Right now, it's "Kerry is being slapped around by the Republicans." If the media spin can become "Kerry is on the comeback," that makes a difference to those swing voters.

[BlueSky]

Among all of you one would expect there would be more people bright enough to realize this but apparently that is too much to hope for because you have spent four threads and dozens of pages talking to people who do not need to be persuaded. [/B]

You are absolutely correct sir, but watching the right wing circle jerks is nothing if not entertaining.

[OldManMac]

Excuse me, your Highness, may I ask a question, please sir?

Who the F died and left you in charge of what we may and may not talk about?

Get your head out of the clouds, the thin air is affecting you.

Edit;

The only thing that's obvious is your arrogance.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by KarlG:
Excuse me, your Highness, may I ask a question, please sir?

Who the F died and left you in charge of what we may and may not talk about?

Get your head out of the clouds, the thin air is affecting you.

Oh, you can talk about it all you want. It is just that what you say has no point what so ever. By virtue of being someone who posts in this forum its clear you are not someone who is completely disengaged from the political process. Your vote is assumed and decide. It does not matter if you watched the debate or not. You are not one of those votes that is in contention. Those people were out last night a bar/restaurant or watching Joey or maybe they caught an early showing of Shark Tale.

Listen, you can go on ahead and keep talking about it but I am right.
The little if any changes in the poll numbers will be back to where they were by mid week. The only debate that may have any effect is the last one. People who will decide this election won't have much of a memory of this debate.
So by all means go on with your pointless contribution.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by KarlG:
Excuse me, your Highness, may I ask a question, please sir?

Who the F died and left you in charge of what we may and may not talk about?

Get your head out of the clouds, the thin air is affecting you.

Edit;

The only thing that's obvious is your arrogance.

Ooooo... Capt. O struck a nerve. He's right, even if you don't want to hear it.

[Gee-Man]

Sorry, Capt. Obvious - but I seriously doubt that most people who post here are doing it because they think they are somehow affecting the swing voters. It's a discussion forum, so that's what everybody is doing - discussing. What's your problem with that?

If we all followed your logic to its arrogant conclusion, then we might as well close this whole forum down, since nothing anybody says has any effect on anything anyway. I know that not a single post on MacNN is going to change the course of the Iraq war, or kill more terrorists, or solve the Israeli/Palestinian problem, or decide whether Kerry or Bush wins. On non-political subjects, we are not going to speed up the release of OS X 10.4 Tiger, or make Apple come out with a PDA/phone/super-device, or swap the respective market shares of Microsoft and Apple.

But one thing I do know - you can't tell us that we can't talk about any of it.

[MacGorilla]

it doesn't matter--this debate will soon vanish into oblivion.

[BlueSky]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
it doesn't matter--this debate will soon vanish into oblivion.

and so shall we all. kinda reinforces that pointless point thing he was pointing out.

[djohnson]

Politics being pointless is why I have decided to do something better with my time than sit here argueing over nothing...

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:

102 million people voted in 2000
123 million people were registered to vote
198 million people are eligible to register

That's interesting, that means that only slightly more than 50% of the possible voters actually voted. That sounds dangerously low for a democracy.

Regarding your other point: If you believe in the chaos-theory, then indeed it is possible that these discussions can change something globally, you know the small cause, big effect-theory.

Personally I'm not discussing here to change something through the points I'm making, though it is a possible side-effect. I'm doing it to learn something new, about other point of views and about my own, and to question and explain myself and my views and to train my writing- and debate-skills, and maybe even for the small hope to find solutions for the most glaring problems of societies.

Taliesin

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Ooooo... Capt. O struck a nerve. He's right, even if you don't want to hear it.

My gawd! CO has 1 friend?

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by Atomic Rooster:
My gawd! CO has 1 friend?

He'll only admit to it on an internet forum, but not in public.

[Spliffdaddy]

I agree with the original post.

Our debate opinions do not matter. At all.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by KarlG:
He'll only admit to it on an internet forum, but not in public.

Nope. I admire people who are direct and speak their minds, regardless of senseless conventions and delicate egos. It's hilarious how he gets you guys sputtering and moaning with just a few accurate comments. He baits you, and you bite every time. Very entertaining. If I met him in person, I'd buy him a beer.

[ebuddy]

I disagree to an extent though some of the Capt'n's point are good one that I've echoed as well.

The fact of the matter is; I don't know about y'all, but I have been instrumental in changing the hearts and minds of readers. I've gotten the instant messages and emails to keep me going. There is good in making points if nothing more than re-kindling the fires of those who mildly support your view. In some cases I've facilitated complete 180's. I don't bring this up to propogate bragadocia so much as to illustrate that with a little time, you can communicate effectively in the written word where you might be a dismal failure at verbalizing a view. With paitence you can embolden them with passion that they can then take with them to convince other fence-sitters. It takes resolve to be sure, but that's the attribute I believe emodies our environment today.

[Nicko]

You poor disenfranchised Americans, why not just elect a monarchy and be done with it.

[BlackGriffen]

Don't mind Captain Irrelevant. Misery loves company.

BG

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
If I met him in person, I'd buy him a beer....

.......and pour it over his head?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Nicko:
You poor disenfranchised Americans, why not just elect a monarchy and be done with it.

Like the Kennedys or Clintons?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
.......and pour it over his head?

No, that would be ambush. A little baptism of suds would do him some good.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
The fact of the matter is; I don't know about y'all, but I have been instrumental in changing the hearts and minds of readers.

Good for you. I usually drive people away from my positions.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
That's interesting, that means that only slightly more than 50% of the possible voters actually voted. That sounds dangerously low for a democracy.

Regarding your other point: If you believe in the chaos-theory, then indeed it is possible that these discussions can change something globally, you know the small cause, big effect-theory.

Its typical and its not just the US. The larger the population the smaller the percentage it seems, though I hear the Swiss don't even hit forty percent.
We are just blessed with an apathetic and uninformed electorate which was worsened with intrusive and irrelevant reporting methods that took off in the 60s and will stick with us indefinitely. The uniformed part mostly because people are stupid and lazy but that is global not intrinsically American.
The press are hyping this coming election as the "Most Important in Our Lifetime" - I bet we don't pass 60% voter turnout.



As for chaos theory, I am not sure how it would apply on a golbal scale but we're talking just about Americans since that is who the vote is open to. And the other 30%ish who are not party loyal nor particularly acute in the area of politics don't care about the details of the events that transpire a month before the election if it is not tantalizing or sensational.
I know I am right and if some of these boomers who are responsible for the political malaise in our country lack the intellect to see that then we'll just see who is right as the polls are released.

[Troll]

It doesn't matter if they didn't watch the debate because the papers have talked about it, their friends will be talking about it and other television programs they watch will discuss it. I've hardly met anyone who watched the debates over here (they were on at 4am), but most people have read up on what went down and a lot of people are talking about them.

[Captain Obvious]

Did you miss the part about the 2 minute highlight reels I mentioned?
Yes, they heard about it but they don't care. And what they saw was what I said, the best and the worst sound bites thus balancing any performance differences between the candidates.

[Logic]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Nope. I admire people who are direct and speak their minds, regardless of senseless conventions and delicate egos. It's hilarious how he gets you guys sputtering and moaning with just a few accurate comments. He baits you, and you bite every time. Very entertaining. If I met him in person, I'd buy him a beer.

Does that only apply to right wingers or do you also admire me when I speak my mind on certain issues?

[Logic]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Good for you. I usually drive people away from my positions.

That makes two of us

Perhaps we should agree on a few positions and then take each extreme side to make people agree with what we already agreed on

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Logic:
Does that only apply to right wingers or do you also admire me when I speak my mind on certain issues?

Well, I admire my neighbor, and he's a communist from Rhode Island.


Yes, Logic, I respect you. Feel better? Want a cookie?

[lil'babykitten]

mmm cookies.

[swrate]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Its typical and its not just the US. The larger the population the smaller the percentage it seems, though I hear the Swiss don't even hit forty percent.
We are just blessed with an apathetic and uninformed electorate which was worsened with intrusive and irrelevant reporting methods that took off in the 60s and will stick with us indefinitely. The uniformed part mostly because people are stupid and lazy but that is global not intrinsically American.
The press are hyping this coming election as the "Most Important in Our Lifetime" - I bet we don't pass 60% voter turnout.






I know I am right and if some of these boomers who are responsible for the political malaise in our country lack the intellect to see that then we'll just see who is right as the polls are released.

Err
Swiss switch
Malaise all over....
You did not hear right, to make it short:
The participation was rather good for the last votation, I would say though the split in Switzerland, "R�stigraben", returned, showing obvious differences in the results and mentalities. The swiss german part has more counties and voices, so takes over the position even when the other counties disagree, this happens often, and is responsable for lack of motivation.
example, 26 sept:
Initiative populaire �Services postaux pour tous�

yes:1'247'839 49.8 no:1'259'125 50.2
"neinsagers"


Plus the way they twist the propositiions around, one has to read and inform oneself and analyse carefully before answering the question. (clarity improved lately)
Businesses, banks, associations are often supervised from Swiss-Germany, Z�rich, Bern, Basel... the "Swiss-Germans" control economically and polically, and often the other counties, french, italian, romanche tongues and voices feel left out, in the case of this votation again, it was the case.

Here is a link with the numbers for each county, on the postal initiative issue, 67.6 % being the highest participation and 45.1 % no bravo Ticino, the lowest.

Its well over 50 % and not under 40%, bad, yes, yet not as bad as your people.

http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/pore/va/20040926/det512.html


not as bad as you see

[Logic]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Well, I admire my neighbor, and he's a communist from Rhode Island.


Yes, Logic, I respect you. Feel better? Want a cookie?

Cookie! Who said cookie!?

:runs around looking for cookies:

[george68]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
They have less of an attention span then you.

But your opinion does matter, right Mr Ego? He's better than all of us, that's why his opinion matters.

- Ca$h

[MindFad]

You totally should've got him on using "then" instead of "than" on that one.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by MindFad:
You totally should've got him on using "then" instead of "than" on that one.

ZING!

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Like the Kennedys or Clintons?

Or the Bushs?

[UNTeMac]

I wonder if this thread would even exist if Bush had done a better job last Thursday.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by george68:
But your opinion does matter, right Mr Ego? He's better than all of us, that's why his opinion matters.

- Ca$h

OMG, I agree with Ca$h!

quote from Captain Obvious:
----------------------
Among all of you one would expect there would be more people bright enough to realize this but apparently that is too much to hope for because you have spent four threads and dozens of pages talking to people who do not need to be persuaded.
----------------------

quote:
----------------------
I know I am right and if some of these boomers who are responsible for the political malaise in our country lack the intellect to see that then we'll just see who is right as the polls are released.

----------------------


Arrogance is an overreation against insecurity. What's even funnier is that, in his first post, he tells us that there's no point in discussing this anymore, and then he goes on anyway. He really needs to convince himself.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally posted by UNTiMac:
I wonder if this thread would even exist if Bush had done a better job last Thursday.

Or the last four years...