[Lerkfish]

mucho apologies.
My posting in anti-religion threads to bump them up was only intended to show that in the last 4 pages, there were 11 anti-religion pages, but only one pro-religion pages.
I did not start any of these threads myself.

however, someone stated there were more proreligious threads than anti, which clearly wasn't true.

I thought the most clear way to make that point was to bump up ALL religion threads, pro or con and let people see what the percentage actuallly is.

For this, I've been threatened with banning.
so be it.

after all the times I've been personally attacked here for speaking my mind, and it comes to this....

well, at any rate, my apologies because I was not intending to spam, but merely to bump up all threads on that subject. Somehow this offended people to the point they want me gone.

shutting up now. Silence is what you want...okeydoke.

[xi_hyperon]

No, please don't leave. You and I don't do a whole lotta communicating, but I always enjoy reading your posts.

$.02

[philzilla]

who threatened you with a ban?

[ZackS]

Lerk, I hope you know that it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, it doesn't matter if your intentions were good or bad. All that matters is the opinion of those in power. I'm not talking about this forum (that would be sad) but of life in general. I have plenty of examples, anecdotes, etc but i don't want to derail your thread. Just letting you know that I hear you.

[lil'babykitten]

Yeah, it's getting pretty crappy around here...again.
Think I might follow simeythelimey, theolein, logic, voodoo et al and read a book or something, adios!

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
mucho apologies.
My posting in anti-religion threads to bump them up was only intended to show that in the last 4 pages, there were 11 anti-religion pages, but only one pro-religion pages.
I did not start any of these threads myself.

however, someone stated there were more proreligious threads than anti, which clearly wasn't true.

I thought the most clear way to make that point was to bump up ALL religion threads, pro or con and let people see what the percentage actuallly is.

For this, I've been threatened with banning.
so be it.

after all the times I've been personally attacked here for speaking my mind, and it comes to this....

well, at any rate, my apologies because I was not intending to spam, but merely to bump up all threads on that subject. Somehow this offended people to the point they want me gone.

shutting up now. Silence is what you want...okeydoke.

Sorry man, I started that (bumping those posts up)... just wanted to reveal a bit of the hypocracy. As much as I enjoy a good discussion, the climate here has gotten stale. I think you're right, it's time to take a break and drop the forums for a while.

[Superchicken]

This is so freaking lame!
I'm so sick of this!
The admins here are so freaking lame, "we'll only ban someone if they're intentionally flame baiting people" there are at least 5 users here who CONSTANTLY try and pick fights with people of other faiths! But the admins do absolutely nothing! You're not admins you're just freaking children who have the power to get rid of what irritates them! And if one of you DARES tell me that I should hit that freaking report abuse button, I'd remind you that I've hit that repeatedly when my God is insulted and you do absolutely nothing! You're worse than bigots like Rooney and the rest. He's simply a small minded bigot, you're all well informed people who simply have no consideration for anyone but yourselves!

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
This is so freaking lame!
I'm so sick of this!
The admins here are so freaking lame, "we'll only ban someone if they're intentionally flame baiting people" there are at least 5 users here who CONSTANTLY try and pick fights with people of other faiths! But the admins do absolutely nothing! You're not admins you're just freaking children who have the power to get rid of what irritates them! And if one of you DARES tell me that I should hit that freaking report abuse button, I'd remind you that I've hit that repeatedly when my God is insulted and you do absolutely nothing! You're worse than bigots like Rooney and the rest. He's simply a small minded bigot, you're all well informed people who simply have no consideration for anyone but yourselves!

so if i were to consider my god to be the admins, then you would be insulting my god and it would be ok to hit the report abuse button...

however, lil'babykitten, i think you have the right idea... it is essential to realize that this isnt the real world, this digital realm is not worth getting worked up over...

so my advice would be to unplug for a bit, maybe read a book or play a game

[Phanguye]

on second thought... what we really need is a 'ban all' button on demonhoods keyboard... i imagine a much more civil macnn lounge if everyone is banned

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by Phanguye:
on second thought... what we really need is a 'ban all' button on demonhoods keyboard... i imagine a much more civil macnn lounge if everyone is banned

Or maybe a "Share Candy" button. Why should he get it all?

[benb]

Yea, this place has gone down the crapper as of late.

I think I might take this opportunity to read a book while watching Monday Night Football, instead of browsing forums.

Note the lack of self-control to completely give up passive entertainment for mind-enriching literature.

[Superchicken]

Well I found 14 bigoted topics just on like the first page of a search for the word Jesus. But after all we Christians ALWAYS start threads about God... cause we're such intolerant mean spirited people unlike those wonderful do gooders who make a point to tell us that they hate us at every turn!

[benign]

I am still stunned that a marvel of insanely great
secular minds - the mac and in turn this
forum are built on the very apex of late
20th, early 21st century minds.
That so many opponents of secular humanism
and in my humble world view that means a
hatred of mankind, visit this forum and spit
arrogance mixed with distrust of nonbelievers.
That their love and praise is only for their
invisible god, bottled with resentment
awaiting their immortality.
Silently grinning at the fate of all the non
believers of their own particular denomination,
made me forget my manners.
But I don't want to be part of the angst that is
unbalancing the lounge and it's members.


For my lack of charm and procumbent level of
tolerance - I apologize for my overly extended
scream of surprise.

[wolfen]

Originally posted by benign:
I am still stunned that a marvel of insanely great
secular minds - the mac and in turn this
forum are built on the very apex of late
20th, early 21st century minds.
That so many opponents of secular humanism
and in my humble world view that means a
hatred of mankind, visit this forum and spit
arrogance mixed with distrust of nonbelievers.
That their love and praise is only for their
invisible god, bottled with resentment
awaiting their immortality.
Silently grinning at the fate of all the non
believers of their own particular denomination,
made me forget my manners.
But I don't want to be part of the angst that is
unbalancing the lounge and it's members.


For my lack of charm and procumbent level of
tolerance - I apologize for my overly extended
scream of surprise.

Then shut the fk up.

[Mediaman_12]

how about a simple solution. All 'religion topics should be banished to the 'Political/War Lounge' area'. With religion (or lack of religious fredom) being at the heart of most of the worlds conflicts at the moment, they would probably feel right at home.

The 'Political/War Lounge' would probably be better being re-titled 'Political/Religion soapbox'.

[philzilla]

i love how this thread has 666 in the url. cute.

[Demonhood]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
..... And if one of you DARES tell me that I should hit that freaking report abuse button, I'd remind you that I've hit that repeatedly when my God is insulted and you do absolutely nothing!

i think you've hit that button maybe 4 times in the past 4 months. each time you use a phrase such as "i know you won't do anything since you're such stupid mods and christian haters" to start your complaint.
perhaps they need to teach you a course in diplomacy over there at your college.

oh, and benign, enough with the line breaks.

[gadster]

Sheesh, Lerk, I can't believe you got the dreaded PM from above! Where's mine? I have been acting like a complete idiot of late, (apologies to the board, personal reasons) and I didn't get one. You have to be one of the most thoughtful, reasonable and considerate of your ilk, I can't believe that you got singled out. Or is there something more sinister afoot?

[benign]

Originally posted by wolfen:
Then shut the fk up.

A sheep with a wolf whistle.

There you go again, handing out love
and forgiveness like you've been kissed
by the lips of a god on your fully
operational star shaped pump dispenser.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by gadster:
Sheesh, Lerk, I can't believe you got the dreaded PM from above! Where's mine? I have been acting like a complete idiot of late, (apologies to the board, personal reasons) and I didn't get one. You have to be one of the most thoughtful, reasonable and considerate of your ilk, I can't believe that you got singled out. Or is there something more sinister afoot?

It's because the mods are as Demonhood so adequately paraphrased, Christian haters.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by Demonhood:
i think you've hit that button maybe 4 times in the past 4 months. each time you use a phrase such as "i know you won't do anything since you're such stupid mods and christian haters" to start your complaint.
perhaps they need to teach you a course in diplomacy over there at your college.

oh, and benign, enough with the line breaks.

If after four times you're told "we don't care shut up, everyone has the right to bash on your religion it's a free country"

But I bet if I dared call you a fag I'd be banned in a minute! The selectivity of this administration is even more pathetic than the incompetence of the current American one!

[Demonhood]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
If after four times you're told "we don't care shut up, everyone has the right to bash on your religion it's a free country"

no one ever told you that.
your victim status has been revoked.

there has been a lot of animosity regarding religion both in here and the political forum. that will soon change. it has gotten a bit out of control. your reporting of non-incidents, however, hasn't helped matters.
oh, and please stop bumping old topics.

[kmkkid]

What a bunch of whiners.



Chris

[ZackS]

Originally posted by Demonhood:
i think you've hit that button maybe 4 times in the past 4 months. each time you use a phrase such as "i know you won't do anything since you're such stupid mods and christian haters" to start your complaint.
perhaps they need to teach you a course in diplomacy over there at your college.

oh, and benign, enough with the line breaks.

Originally posted by Demonhood:
no one ever told you that.
your victim status has been revoked.

there has been a lot of animosity regarding religion both in here and the political forum. that will soon change. it has gotten a bit out of control. your reporting of non-incidents, however, hasn't helped matters.
oh, and please stop bumping old topics.

POST(S) OF THE MILLENNIUM!

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
*SNIP*


But I bet if I dared call you a fag I'd be banned in a minute! The selectivity of this administration is even more pathetic than the incompetence of the current American one!

Quite subtle. Are you looking to start a flame war with these words.

You need to learn a bit of diplomacy. You aren't winning many friends here.

Do you know of a better administered forum? Clayshaker.com for instance? Do you think clayshaker.com has better admins? If you asked me, I'd say you're crazy if you think so.

The MacNN forums are the best out there. There maybe a bit of a Christian bashing atmosphere here, but it is just like it is in the rest of the world. I don't expect much more here. You shouldn't either.

[forkies]

Originally posted by ZackS:
blah

I thought you were up an' outta dis piece

[Landos Mustache]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
It's because the mods are as Demonhood so adequately paraphrased, Christian haters.

If that was the case then why are you and Zimph not banned?

[ZackS]

I am just watching the last 2 threads I posted in.

AND DON'T FABRICATE QUOTES YOU ARE SO REPORTED!!!

[ThinkInsane]

A point of clarification. I was the one that PM'd Lerk, as well as MacNstein. For what ever it's worth, it wasn't about resurrecting old threads. I didn't know that was going on, not having much time to look at the lounge today. It was strictly regarding this piece of spam I was seeing repeatedly:

Excuse me, just passing through.

BTW, another non-religious person starting a religion thread.

moving right along...

That was what I was referring too. And I never meant to imply that Lerk would be banned. I had said in a previous thread that if it didn't stop, I would ask Demonhood to temp ban the lounge privileges of the offenders.

If that seems heavy handed, well, sorry about that, but this whole thing has gotten ridiculous. People are talking about bailing from the forums because they are sick of hearing it. I am sick of hearing. It's stupid, and both sides are acting like children.

When it comes right down to it, does it really matter what a bunch of anonomous people on an internet message board think of your faith, or lack there of? Seriously, if you are losing sleep over this, pull the plug for a while and get your head on straight.

Lerk, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I certainly don't want to see you leave, as you are in my top ten of most respected posters.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
I am sick of hearing. It's stupid, and both sides are acting like children

One side only started acting like children when we finally got sick of being treated as sub humans without the same expectations of respect as we've been told we're responsible for giving to other people.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
One side only started acting like children when we finally got sick of being treated as sub humans without the same expectations of respect as we've been told we're responsible for giving to other people.

Stop being such a whining victim. You post stuff frequently that I personally find highly offensive. I've never reported you for it.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
Stop being such a whining victim. You post stuff frequently that I personally find highly offensive. I've never reported you for it.

And I've never reported you either, I'm not acting like a victim. I'm acting like someone who's freaking irritated with the fact that people here keep acting as if it's an equal thing.

NO IT"S NOT! IT"S NOT! I'm so sick people EVERYWHERE saying, both sides are wrong. And then they act like that makes it OK that the situation sucks! Zimph, MacNStein, Myself and others no matter what post we were in if we ever said anything about our three different perspectives on God, even if it was something barely there, we'd have to put up with some moron telling us with a link to some site that said we were wrong, that we're stupid for believing anything. And nothing was EVER done about it, and we had mods replying to those threads. If any of them cared about this respect they keep telling us to give, they'd have you know, done something.

[tintub]

Lerk, while bumping all those threads was IMO a stupid and selfish move, no one wants you to go. Just don't do that again. Usually your posts are good and worthwhile. I don't venture into the religious threads though...

[deekay1]

okay, since this has been made into such a big fvking issue, i'll speak my mind here too.

first of all, i would like to state that i am a strong believer in "freedom of choice" and that the "infringement on another person's personal freedom is an infringement on my freedom".

having said that, i find it sbsolutely disgusting how people try, at the beginning of the 21st century, non the less, try to give "humanism" a bad name.

people have fought and died for the freedoms we have today. freedoms that are unparalelled on this planet. and freedoms which can still be improved on. most of these freedoms were thought up, and initiated by "humanists"! NOT RELIGIOUS FANATICS, OR FUNDAMENTALIST THEOCRATS! learn your history!

thus i find it important to speak out against any voice that slanders the foundations of our culture and what i believe in. wether it be the nazi, commiting hatecrimes on the street, imperialist politicians, who murder people in the name of oil or allah, or religious bigots, who would like to see the clock turned back to a time, where only the "patriarchs" get to say and interpert the law.

i have learned quite a bit in these discussions, and not only from the people i agree with. unfotunately one of the moderators decided to ban me from the political forum, so i can't take part in the discussions over there. though i think a lot of threads in here are really boring and lame (and in part totally excluding), is still enjoy some of them.

there are about 8 or 10 people who post regularly at the lounge, who i probably completely disagree with on just about everything, and equally as many who i strongly agree with on many things.

that's life. religion has played and is currently playing a big role in repressing people and freedom throughout this world, as it is also a source of solice and comfort for some, who actually understand it's "useful" meaning, imho.

so there. i'm not going to leave. i'm going to be a pain in the a$$ to those who decide to slander what i believe in. and moderators, please reinstate me in the political forum, or i will start posting nude pictures of david hasselhoff en masse! and who knows what else will happen.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
And I've never reported you either, I'm not acting like a victim. I'm acting like someone who's freaking irritated with the fact that people here keep acting as if it's an equal thing.

NO IT"S NOT! IT"S NOT! I'm so sick people EVERYWHERE saying, both sides are wrong. And then they act like that makes it OK that the situation sucks! Zimph, MacNStein, Myself and others no matter what post we were in if we ever said anything about our three different perspectives on God, even if it was something barely there, we'd have to put up with some moron telling us with a link to some site that said we were wrong, that we're stupid for believing anything. And nothing was EVER done about it, and we had mods replying to those threads. If any of them cared about this respect they keep telling us to give, they'd have you know, done something.

I agree with most everything you said.

The bias shown by the moderators (well, one in particular) is blatant and inexcuseable. It is their right to condemn those they disagree with, however...by "accidentally" locking threads. But you certainly see the result of their actions (and inactions) in the forums!

Way to go!

Now they're gonna blame the members...

edit: except the ones causing the problem, naturally

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
And I've never reported you either, I'm not acting like a victim. I'm acting like someone who's freaking irritated with the fact that people here keep acting as if it's an equal thing.

NO IT"S NOT! IT"S NOT! I'm so sick people EVERYWHERE saying, both sides are wrong. And then they act like that makes it OK that the situation sucks! Zimph, MacNStein, Myself and others no matter what post we were in if we ever said anything about our three different perspectives on God, even if it was something barely there, we'd have to put up with some moron telling us with a link to some site that said we were wrong, that we're stupid for believing anything. And nothing was EVER done about it, and we had mods replying to those threads. If any of them cared about this respect they keep telling us to give, they'd have you know, done something.

Ok, so tell me, what is your solution? We have never said it's ok. Frankly, we held out hope against hope that people would be mature enough not to have to resort to lame flame-wars every time someone said something they didn't agree with. We have tried to talk sense into people. We have tied to get people to just IGNORE threads, and specific posters, that they don't agree with or have no interest in. People have not been able to do that, and as such we have the kindergarten mess that we find ourselves in now.

So, what's the answer? At this point, nobody is willing to concede that their actions have contributed to this foolishness. No one will admit that the ADULT thing to do would have been to leave folks to their own beliefs. Live an let live was not something that could be condoned. And make no mistake, both sides are responsible.

When you speak of our inaction, you are speaking from your perspective only. Realize this, if we had come down hard on this crap, admittedly back when we should have, you'd be gone right along with the people you seem to feel are the villains. And that is what we probably should have done. Smacked both sides down right at the start instead of having a little faith that people could act like grown ups.

So, lets be clear on this. The religion flame-fest is coming to an end, one way or the other. People are pissed, people that had nothing to do with this debacle, and they are leaving, That's unacceptable. This forum is not anyone's personal play ground where you can piss off the other kids for sport. If you can't behave, and act with at least a modicum of maturity, then you're going to lose your privilege to play here. It's that simple. This has gone on long enough.

This is not open to debate. If you post something inflammatory, spoof threads, are disrespectful to someone else's sincere point of view, or anything else that will fuel this nonsense, you get one warning. If you continue, you're banned from the lounge. End of story.

Leave people to their own beliefs, theories, points of view or philosophies. You aren't going to change anyone's mind, so what's the point?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by deekay1:
okay, since this has been made into such a big fvking issue, i'll speak my mind here too.

first of all, i would like to state that i am a strong believer in "freedom of choice" and that the "infringement on another person's personal freedom is an infringement on my freedom".

having said that, i find it sbsolutely disgusting how people try, at the beginning of the 21st century, non the less, try to give "humanism" a bad name.

people have fought and died for the freedoms we have today. freedoms that are unparalelled on this planet. and freedoms which can still be improved on. most of these freedoms were thought up, and initiated by "humanists"! NOT RELIGIOUS FANATICS, OR FUNDAMENTALIST THEOCRATS! learn your history!

thus i find it important to speak out against any voice that slanders the foundations of our culture and what i believe in. wether it be the nazi, commiting hatecrimes on the street, imperialist politicians, who murder people in the name of oil or allah, or religious bigots, who would like to see the clock turned back to a time, where only the "patriarchs" get to say and interpert the law.

i have learned quite a bit in these discussions, and not only from the people i agree with. unfotunately one of the moderators decided to ban me from the political forum, so i can't take part in the discussions over there. though i think a lot of threads in here are really boring and lame (and in part totally excluding), is still enjoy some of them.

there are about 8 or 10 people who post regularly at the lounge, who i probably completely disagree with on just about everything, and equally as many who i strongly agree with on many things.

that's life. religion has played and is currently playing a big role in repressing people and freedom throughout this world, as it is also a source of solice and comfort for some, who actually understand it's "useful" meaning, imho.

so there. i'm not going to leave. i'm going to be a pain in the a$$ to those who decide to slander what i believe in. and moderators, please reinstate me in the political forum, or i will start posting nude pictures of david hasselhoff en masse! and who knows what else will happen.

You don't understand the difference between dogma and faith. No one who is a true person of faith has EVER stifled ANYONE. All circles have bad people who profess to be something they're not. I suppose that's what is the real pi$$er. I believe that REAL secular humanism is a compassionate and viable choice in beliefs. However, some people in this forum are too blind or ignorant to see the same fact regarding christianity, islam, buddism, etc.

[rjenkinson]

Originally posted by MacNStein:

our scientists have determined that macnstein's post was:

• 80.24% quoted text particles
• 16.81% signature electrons
• 2.95% smiley quarks

they are still searching for the elusive commentatrons.

[Shaddim]

???

[Millennium]

Originally posted by benign:
That so many opponents of secular humanism and in my humble world view that means a hatred of mankind, visit this forum and spit arrogance mixed with distrust of nonbelievers.

So anyone who doesn't follow your beliefs, necessarily hates humanity. And you wonder why you stir up such ire among people on these boards.

That their love and praise is only for their invisible god, bottled with resentment awaiting their immortality.

Silently grinning at the fate of all the non believers of their own particular denomination, made me forget my manners.

You have said multiple times that you consider it your "duty as a freethinker" to loudly denounce religion when you found it. You "forgot" nothing. Even now, hiding behind a rather impressive set of crocodile tears, you carry your religion-bashing on.

But I don't want to be part of the angst that is unbalancing the lounge and it's members.

Nice words, but your actions tell a very different story.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
It's because the mods are as Demonhood so adequately paraphrased, Christian haters.

I beg your pardon?

If the mods truly hated Christians, I would have been removed from my position long ago. I have been almost as active as you in the religion threads; if they wanted to ban Christians, they would have all the ammunition they could possibly need in order to ban me completely.

But that has not happened. And despite having had to talk to the more extreme zealots on certain occasions, none of them have been banned either.

There are people on this board who hate Christians; that I will not deny. But the moderators do not hate Christians as a matter of policy, whatever their personal beliefs might be.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Demonhood:
i think you've hit that button maybe 4 times in the past 4 months. each time you use a phrase such as "i know you won't do anything since you're such stupid mods and christian haters" to start your complaint.
perhaps they need to teach you a course in diplomacy over there at your college.

Sorry, had to laugh that was funny.

I am not the most diplomatic Super, but come on..

oh, and benign, enough with the line breaks.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
It's because the mods are as Demonhood so adequately paraphrased, Christian haters.

While some may not be Christians, I don't think they HATE them. Demon has put up with my crap for months now on AIM. Not once has his tongue forked over towards the hatred side.

Of course for all I know he is making fun of me to his imaginary trogdor.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I agree with most everything you said.

The bias shown by the moderators (well, one in particular) is blatant and inexcuseable. It is their right to condemn those they disagree with, however...by "accidentally" locking threads. But you certainly see the result of their actions (and inactions) in the forums!

Lerk's Law (Nutshell Remix):

"It's only 'bias' if you disagree."

-s*

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
my top ten of most respected posters.

Now, that's a list I'd like to see.

[Chuckmcd]

This is exactly why I have backed off from posting here... I didn't feel the need to start a thread about backing off, but to each his own. I have better things to do with my time than have people who are unable to carry on an adult conversation bash everything about me. not merely my beliefs, but me. People of faith on these boards have been told in no uncertain terms that we simply must not be capable of rational thought, because any thinking being wouldn't fall for that! They are being intentionally obtuse. At least I hope it's intentional, otherwise they really are that simple minded and dense.

I appreciate the exchange of ideas. Some long threads in days gone by where Mastrap and some others got to share their thoughts on god and existence were fun. Even then there were people only looking to argue, but there were enough people just talking that it was worth while. This is not the case any longer. Being bigoted humanists, or overzealous christians who don't yet have a full grasp on putting their belief into action (thus having faith), or a full grasp on spell checking.. the honest exchange of ideas here at Macnn is in the toilet. Don't blame the mods, don't blame any one group. The fault rests on all of our shoulder. The only the required to ruin any community is for the people to sit back and do nothing for a while. That's what we've all done. We've watched and we've not intervened. We shouldn't need a series of blue dots to smack down some ignorant jerk... the mods should be the last line of defense against the narrow minded.

I'm going back to lurking as I have been for weeks now... I'm afraid I've waited to long to effect change, and lack the respect of the members to make change possible.

[Sven G]

I think one of the reasons why Christians and other "religious" people are a little bashed on the forums (and elsewhere, maybe) is that they sometimes don't appear to be sufficiently radical and coherent: after all, Jesus' message was a revolutionary one, and what has remained of it? only a shadow of its potential, sadly, in today's context...

OK - said from an agnostic, BTW...

[Spheric Harlot]

...and a note (just noticed):

The mother Teresa thread, dragged up by SC, is NOT an anti-religious topic.

-s*

[deekay1]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
No one who is a true person of faith has EVER stifled ANYONE.

ask him, wether he thinks he is a true person of faith. i'm sure his answer will be a resounding YES!



or these people for that matter...

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by deekay1:
ask him, wether he thinks he is a true person of faith. i'm sure his answer will be a resounding YES!



or these people for that matter...

Didn't we already beat this dead horse? Groups have good people and bad people. Christians, Islam, Secular Humanists, etc. All groups.