[benign]

Panther users... Is there anything
you miss about jaguar ?

[biscuit]

Network browsing that worked quite well; I miss that.

Clicking on a name in list view and having it become editable; I miss that too.

But that's about it.

biscuit

[arekkusu]

Being able to drag a window without other application grinding to a halt.

[Amorya]

I miss menus that didn't grow and shrink.

On Jaguar, if you clicked on a popup menu too close to the bottom of the screen, it'd open with the selected item under your mouse, a scroll arrow at the bottom, and a load of empty space at the top. This is good.

On panther it opens with the selected item under your mouse, the scroll arrow at the bottom, but no empty space. When you scroll, the menu dynamically grows. This is bad because you can't see at a glance how much stuff is in the menu!


Amorya

[nredman]

no...one word....Expos�.

[Cadaver]

I miss the over-done, gaudy stripes and hard-to-read window names, slow animations, sl... oh - sorry. No, I don't miss Jaguar.

[KP*]

Originally posted by biscuit:
Network browsing that worked quite well; I miss that.

Agreed. But overall I love Panther.

I have Panther on my AlBook and Jaguar on my PowerMac G4, and every time I use the PowerMac, I keep wanting to use Expose and all the other features. Someday I'm going to install Panther on it, but I don't feel like taking the time and care to do a clean install, and I know if I don't it will come out all screwed up. That machine is quite frankly a lemon, and usually can't even back itself up to an external drive without the backup getting corrupted or crashing. If I were going to wipe the HD I would have to be really careful to make sure everything was successfully backed up. But I'll have to do it the next time I get a large amount of free time cause I miss Panther when I use that machine!

[DamnDJ]

There's nothing I miss about Jag.. Zero..Nada.

It's all about Panther.=)

[Landos Mustache]

Ya, networking WORKED!

[Hannah W]

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
Ya, networking WORKED!

I have my first two Macs here, and they network fine. In fact, I was amazed, that all I really did was hook them up to my ADSL router, and then they appeared in each other's Network bit of the Finder.

Networking in Mac OS X 10.3 works really well for me.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally posted by Hannah W:
I have my first two Macs here, and they network fine. In fact, I was amazed, that all I really did was hook them up to my ADSL router, and then they appeared in each other's Network bit of the Finder.

Networking in Mac OS X 10.3 works really well for me.

That's good. It is well known that 10.3 has a slew of networking bugs.

[Hannah W]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
That's good. It is well known that 10.3 has a slew of networking bugs.

Oh, okay - I guess I'm lucky that I haven't seen them then!

[kcmac]

Our Linksys wireless game adapter doesn't work anymore.

Panther is awesome otherwise.

[Hannah W]

Originally posted by kcmac:
Our Linksys wireless game adapter doesn't work anymore.

Panther is awesome otherwise.

Oh no! I have one of these on its way already! Why doesn't it work?? Is there anything you can do?

[wtmcgee]

i miss it not.

[Cipher13]

After upgrading the iBook, I've left the other machines on Jag.

It is much better, imo.

[sniffer]

Panther feel more mature and faster on my iBook G3. What is there to miss?

[biscuit]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
After upgrading the iBook, I've left the other machines on Jag.

It is much better, imo.

Care to elaborate a little Cipher?

biscuit

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by biscuit:
Care to elaborate a little Cipher?

biscuit

Well, it's a few things. Firstly, networking is majorly messed up; my Panther box will not interact at all with my Wintel, whereas all the Jaguar machines behave fine with it.

Secondly, I have to say... it's the Finder. I just cannot stand the Panther Finder.

Brushed metal... horrible. Looks and functionality. It's big and bulky; whereas the Jaguar Finder, UI wise, was very trim and space conservative (if you wanted it to be).

The toolbar, and side bar, are completely redundant, for me; I use the toolbar, so I have no use for the sidebar. However, I can't completely remove it, and whenever I open a new folder or something, the view gets reset.

For every method of opening a Finder window from a certain location (eg. click on the Finder in the Dock; command-n; command-double click icon; etc), the views are reset, and the sidebar is present.

That'd be fine, if I could totally remove the toolbar - but I can't. If I remove all items from it, it just sits there, empty, wasting space. Why can't I used the single-window mode button to JUST remove the toolbar, as it should?

So yeah, most of my complaints are regarding the Finder... but they're unforgiveable, IMO.

When I get more RAM, I'll see how well Pathfinder (which is brilliant, I think) holds up as a full time replacement. It's a little slow as is.

[Diggory Laycock]

I miss Command-Shift-F in the Finder - but it's a small price to pay.

[Chuckit]

I miss the transparency in Jaguar. Now window titlebars obscure what's behind them and menus contain just enough transparency that it slows down non-QE machines, but not enough that it makes a real difference to the appearance of the menu. I liked the Jaguar way better, I think.

On the other hand, when I'm using Jaguar, I really miss Panther. I always find myself reaching for F11 or looking for the sidebar.

[biscuit]

It does seem like there are quite a few oversights in Panther. The Finder did need more work before release too and shouldn't be brushed metal. The situation is odd because I'd have thought the opposite would be true of 10.3, i.e. now that everything has settled down Apple would have time to really craft the OS carefully. Instead there are mistakes, oversights and omissions. I don't remember as many reports of nagging annoyances with 10.2, but that could be rose-coloured spectacles type nostalgia. I suppose I'm underestimating the amount of behind the scenes changes in Panther taking up the development time.

But, I still don't miss Jaguar. It's just that there's a few problems with Panther. There are enough improvements to keep me happy.

biscuit

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Well, it's a few things. Firstly, networking is majorly messed up; my Panther box will not interact at all with my Wintel, whereas all the Jaguar machines behave fine with it.

You are tring to connect via SMB to a Windows share on XP and it isn't working?
I have had much better luck with 10.3 with SMB than before. Browsing sucks but sharing works fine for me. What happens when you try to connect and how are you doing it?

[gunnar]

I think the old finder was better. I hate the sidebar and the brushed metal after having lived with it. Jaguar seemed more spacial and cleaner. Little things like the sidebar items becoming the "root" level in column view irks me. Those are relative places on my hard drive and I want to go anywhere when I want, even up the tree. Also, the wide grid spacing and Panther's tendency to pile icons on top of each other in the to right has made my desktop useless.

[Chinasaur]

Have Panther installed on another disk but use Jaguar. Panther is too jarring a GUI/method change right now. Expose alone does not overcome what I feel was lost in the change.

Also waiting for the haxies that will make Panther work/look like Jaguar without killing it's speed.

[m a d r a]

i miss being able to launch apps without having to keep my fingers crossed [see this thread]

[barbarian]

I miss networking and reasonable sized finder windows.

Also now that so many of my windows are metal, I often have a hard time telling them apart.

Expose is cool, but it won't do anything to imporve my workflow until it shows minimized/hidden windows.

[Nonsuch]

I don't miss Jag, but I don't find Panther that much better; not worse, but not much better. I don't use Expos� much, the new Finder is nice but not essential, and I get along with my Windows network as well on Panther as on Jag.

The one Panther innovation I really like and would miss if I went back to Jag? The new O/S dialogues.

[ponami]

Airport range is **** with Panther. I could cover my whole house before now I can't leave the room that eMac is in.
And internet sharing is painful when I put the eMac to sleep, I have to start sharing up again even though it says it's still sharing.
Panther is the most windows feeling OS to date.
Before things just worked, now stupid little things happen, that is just like using microsoft crap.

[benign]

I have yet to be in the position where I
suddenly need to see a hidden window ;(

On all the installs of Panther I have made -
the haxie ' Metallifizer-13a1' is always one
of the first extras I've included. How peeps
can live with metal is beyond me.

But the sidebar in the finder windows and
save dialogs is an inspiration, I've not needed
to install 'Default folder' or any file launcher
since using it. Bye-bye to multiple windows for
file movement is something I really miss
when back in the JAG.

[Edit] If you drag the small circular widget
between the sidebar and the finder window
It will close the sidebar. Repeat this and then
all subsequent windows will be sidebar-less.
Why you would want this is also beyond my
comprehension :)

[clarkgoble]

Barbarian: I miss networking and reasonable sized finder windows.

I don't know what you mean by "miss networking" so I'll leave that alone. Panther networks quite well for me although there are a few changes to how Samba works. But I agree that the network browsing needs improvement, although I don't see Panther being worst than Jaguar in that....

As for Finder windows, a few others mentioned this along with hating the sidebar. You do know you can get rid of the sidebar, right? In which case the window is the same size as the Jaguar windows. So I don't quite understand this complaint. You can put folders in the toolbar just like Jaguar as well.

Gunnar: Little things like the sidebar items becoming the "root" level in column view irks me.

I think I've mentioned this before, but this is one of my favorite aspects of Panther. I used PathFinder which has a Panther-like Finder (with extras) but which doesn't root the sidebar. This annoyed me to such an extent that I uninstalled the demo. I was running this prior to Panther and I was really worried that this was how the Finder would be. I'm very glad they didn't.

With regards to everyone complaining about brushed metal. I certainly can understand this. I personally would prefer that all windows be the same. Make metal a system wide preference at best. (I don't think this will happen, but still...) There are, of course, plenty of 3rd party applications that will turn this off and allow you to customize themes. So it isn't that big a deal. Also, while I expected to hate the metal Finder, I surprisingly don't. I've even gotten used enough to metal that I no longer turn it of in Safari!

For some reason I find the use of metal more consistent in Panther than Jaguar.


--------------

As for what I miss of Jaguar in Panther - I'd have to say keycaps. Yeah the new "keycaps" in the input menu is in its way better. But I hate the input menu!

There are some really valid complaints about the Panther Finder - specifically switching between spatial and browser mode. I've discussed that elsewhere and won't repeat myself on that. However I'm not sure those make Panther worse than Jaguar.

Overall, to be completely frank, I love Panther. It is the OS I wish Jaguar had been. It fixed nearly all *my* complaints with Jaguar! There are definitely some issues I'd like improved, but to be honest I have a hard time seeing Jaguar having those done better!

[Dale Sorel]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
The toolbar, and side bar, are completely redundant, for me; I use the toolbar, so I have no use for the sidebar. However, I can't completely remove it, and whenever I open a new folder or something, the view gets reset.

While in the Finder, close all windows. Open a new window, and double-click the bar next to the sidebar such that the sidebar disappears. Now close that window.

Now, whenever you open a new Finder window, the sidebar is gone for good.

[barbarian]

clarkgoble: By networking, I mean networking that consistently works. With my powerbook I am constantly hopping networks between locations... both windows networks and mac networks. In Jag this all basically worked effortlessly (via the go menu). In Panther the browse networking icon, doesn't work consistently (can't "see" some windows networks"), has some major bugs (can cause my computer to hang indefinitely if I go out of range of a mounted network unexpectely), and is kind of a pain (can't mount servers permanently, store passwords in the key chain, or make aliases to servers). The Go command is also less functional as it now does not let me browse except through the finder mechanism.

--
For the record, I do find the sidebar convenient. I just hate the metal. I also hate the fact that I can't change the sidebar icon size or text size and that my finder windows are all gigantic. I mean geez, the top of my finder is about 60 pixels high just to get at the basic options. A workable sizebar is at least 100 pixels wide. I find this obnoxiously large even on my G5 with a 23inch screen...

On my powerbooks and ibooks I use pathfinder as a finder substitute. I find the shelf an invaluable space saver (saves me from having to have 2 finder windows open)

---------------
One panther feature I really really love: the new keyboard control panel which lets you set command keys for just about any menu. super super convenient. I finally have command-n back for new folder!

[OwlBoy]

no - expos� is �ber.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
I miss the transparency in Jaguar. Now window titlebars obscure what's behind them .

YES! YES! YES! YES! I feel better now.

[snerdini]

Notta notta notta...notta damn thing

[ZackS]

To tell you the truth, other than expos� and the speed, I REALLY miss Jaguar. The new Finder makes me want to kill someone and network browsing makes zero sense.

"Let's make a feature work the counterintuitive way Windows does and then make it just as stable and consistent!"

Give me Jag networking back!!!

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
That'd be fine, if I could totally remove the toolbar - but I can't. If I remove all items from it, it just sits there, empty, wasting space.

Why don't you switch to Text Only toolbar mode and remove all the buttons?

[Grey Cell]

Like many others, I don't like the new Finder - brushed metal wasn't a very good choice for it, I don't like how files and newly-made folders don't stay selected when you rename them and you have to start scrolling just to keep working with them, I hardly use (and efinitely don't need) the sidebar, and the new grid spacing is ridiculously wide.

On the other hand, being able to select an existing file's name in the Save As dialogs - to overwrite something or use an almost similar filename without having to retype it each time - is pretty handy. And Expos� is neat, too.

All in all, I like Panther better - even though it still has some serious bugs.