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Spheric Harlot · Feb 23, 2004, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by CatOne:
If you wanna be a guinea pig and pirate, feel free. And of course bitch loudly if you find problems, and blame Apple if your machine starts acting strangely :/

Don't read stuff into my post that I didn't say.

I actually *use* my machines and don't have time to pirate buggy point-upgrades.

-s*

soul searching · Feb 23, 2004, 01:42 PM

I want the finder bugs fixed (i.e., when you preview a music/video file in column view, the rest of the finder goes crazy). It would also be nice if they could add a 'refresh' feature when viewing items on a network.

dabigdawg · Feb 23, 2004, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by heyriddle:
I have a peculiar firewire problem too. When I have my Western Digital Drive plugged in I cannot use Installer. It will not go past the continue button on the user agreement section. Also, I cannot launch Disk Utility. It loads and then right before it is done there is an error message that reads Disk Utility loaded properly but cannot continue. (or something strange like that) If it loaded properly there would not be an error message!

Anyway, I have a Maxtor firewire drive that does not have these issues. It must have something to do with the Firmware version or chipset in the drive. Oh Yea, Sytem Profiler doesn't work either.

I have to restart without the offending drive to reset things back to normal.

It took me a while to figure this issue out. I reformatted the internal drive and reinstalled everything, just to get the same problem again.

OK - I have the same problem but, i am not using a firewire drive, it does happen to be a western digital drive 120gb.

I didn't think it was the drive i had thought it was something that i installed. hmm.

Zimphire · Feb 23, 2004, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by alex_kac:
I don't see how. The command line ftp works great!

Most people don't like dealing with CLI.

Simon · Feb 24, 2004, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Most people don't like dealing with CLI.

Judging by all the b!tching about this stupid problem they don't like dealing with the Finder's ftp even more.

How about learning real CLI ftp (which is rather easy actually) so that the long wait for a can-do-it-all Finder can stop?

Code:
myself$ man ftp

...

myself$ ftp
ftp> help

fritzair · Feb 24, 2004, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by iPond317:
Yeah, the Oxford 911 problem is minor now compared to what has been going on with other users. Try using a computer that freaks out whenever there is access to an external FireWire drive (mouse jumps everywhere, audio skips or slows down and sounds like shyte!) Come on 10.3.3!!!!

If you think "minor" is a FW drive which can't be used as a back up drive because it loses data, and wouldn't work with Retrospect, than you are correct. What would you call Panther if you couldn't erase or format a FW with anything except DOS? Ironic?

Hop Pocket · Feb 25, 2004, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
Judging by all the b!tching about this stupid problem they don't like dealing with the Finder's ftp even more.

How about learning real CLI ftp (which is rather easy actually) so that the long wait for a can-do-it-all Finder can stop?

Code:
myself$ man ftp ... myself$ ftp ftp> help

You've got to be kidding me

The average mac user paid an extra $1k or so to HAVE pretty pictures that zoom around and to not ever have to go to a command line. I'd dare say that a good majority of them have never used the terminal (the MacNN crowdc obviously an exception here).

Even though the CLI ftp interface does work, and well, it's still inefficient. A well written FTP GUI is much more efficient than the CLI alternative.

I don't understand why this and the Finder are such stumbling blocks for Apple.

Simon · Feb 25, 2004, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Hop Pocket:
You've got to be kidding me

Actually, I'm not.

I'm just suggesting that people could learn CLI ftp (which would take about five minutes) and use it until Apple fixes the Finder or until Mac OS XXIII comes along or until ...

The average mac user paid an extra $1k or so to HAVE pretty pictures that zoom around and to not ever have to go to a command line. I'd dare say that a good majority of them have never used the terminal (the MacNN crowdc obviously an exception here).

If they haven't yet, they should. It's simple and powerful.

And if they payed $1k to not use the CLI they should consider buying a Gameboy next time.

I don't understand why this and the Finder are such stumbling blocks for Apple.

Me neither. But they still are, if we understand or not. So, being pragmatic, we can just use CLI ftp and get on with work. Or we can come here, bitch all day long and hope to feel better afterward. But, the work will still not be done.

Hop Pocket · Feb 25, 2004, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
Actually, I'm not.

Heh, ok, I can see that you do believe what you said, but I can't move away from the unmalleable, undeniable, solid as a rock truth that this is out of the grasp of the vast majority of mac users.

If the internet were not so intangible, what I would do then would be to round up 100 or so average mac users (cue sound effect of whip cracking in background), and then put them in a room with you for a couple hours.

Afterwards, if you are still alive, we will test them on FTP proficiency, and I will laugh.

Yes

CharlesS · Feb 25, 2004, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Simon:
I'm just suggesting that people could learn CLI ftp (which would take about five minutes) and use it until Apple fixes the Finder or until Mac OS XXIII comes along or until ...

Downloading one of the excellent FTP/SFTP programs available for Mac OS X such as Transmit or Cyberduck and using it seems like a better alternative for Mac users than the command line.

SMacTech · Feb 25, 2004, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Downloading one of the excellent FTP/SFTP programs available for Mac OS X such as Transmit or Cyberduck and using it seems like a better alternative for Mac users than the command line.

I concur, thanks Charles. As powerful as the CLI can be, it's not the end all solution for today's average computer user. Let's get the Finder to work great for local file management.

Simon · Feb 26, 2004, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Downloading one of the excellent FTP/SFTP programs available for Mac OS X such as Transmit or Cyberduck and using it seems like a better alternative for Mac users than the command line.

It is certainly an alternative and I'd guess it's not a bad one, but saying it's better only suggests Mac users are too stupid to use a CLI. I hope that's not what your trying to imply. You would be rather wrong.

Simon · Feb 26, 2004, 03:46 AM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Let's get the Finder to work great for local file management.

ftp is most used for remote and not local file management. AFAIK the Finder is already working fine for local file management.

Spheric Harlot · Feb 26, 2004, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
It is certainly an alternative and I'd guess it's not a bad one, but saying it's better only suggests Mac users are too stupid to use a CLI. I hope that's not what your trying to imply. You would be rather wrong.

Wait, you mean everyone needs to do their own renovating, repair their own car, build their own kitchen appliances, or write their own software?

I mean, it's not that hard, really. Or is everyone just too stupid?

Or just you?

-s*

eevyl · Feb 26, 2004, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
It is certainly an alternative and I'd guess it's not a bad one, but saying it's better only suggests Mac users are too stupid to use a CLI. I hope that's not what your trying to imply. You would be rather wrong.

It is a better alternative. I know how to use the CLI, but just prefer to use a GUI when is possible. CLI is my last alternative.

Knowing a difficult way of doing something != being smart

Simon · 08:59 AM

First, the car repair analogy is pretty weak and it's rather obvious. So, I won't elaborate on that.

Secondly, it has nothing to do with a solution being hard or easy, smart or dumb.

It's just plain ridiculous to say something is inferior because its learning curve is a bit steep at the beginning.

There is a choice, different people have different preferences, different jobs require different tools and that's just fine.

I fail to see why some people here have a problem with that freedom.

SMacTech · Feb 26, 2004, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
ftp is most used for remote and not local file management. AFAIK the Finder is already working fine for local file management.

Being a sys admin for 10 yrs, I know what ftp is all about. The Finder still has some bugs to work out. The latest 10.3.3 fixes a few but has introduced one for me, causing it to spontaneously restart on occasion while working with SMB shares.

Simon · Feb 26, 2004, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Being a sys admin for 10 yrs, I know what ftp is all about. The Finder still has some bugs to work out. The latest 10.3.3 fixes a few but has introduced one for me, causing it to spontaneously restart on occasion while working with SMB shares.

SMB is another story.

I'm having SMB problems here in the 10.3.2 Finder all the time. Mainly SMB shares not unmounting...

Chris O'Brien · Feb 26, 2004, 09:50 AM

This has some nice information about 10.3.3 - seems there's a bit of good news on the networking front, but no mention of ftp...

Cadaver · Feb 26, 2004, 12:38 PM

Transmit does a better job than the Finder would, anyway. Better a specialized app than a jack of all trades.

mdc · Feb 26, 2004, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Black Book:
This has some nice information about 10.3.3 - seems there's a bit of good news on the networking front, but no mention of ftp...

they mention safari and mail updates.
i wonder if that is safari 1.2 or something more? iirc safari 1.2 was in the 10.3.3

mail.
i really hope they give smartfolders. that is the only thing i was more from mail.

mcsjgs · Feb 27, 2004, 02:07 PM

Got a reply e-mail from Fryke about 10.3.3. Size is about 70MB (67.1MB?) and it says it needs 274MB when expanded. Fryke says though that after installation, it doesn't take all of the 274MB space.