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neila · 02:00 PM

Highly recommended. If you want to trash winblows media player download a demo of Flip4Mac player or studio. Thank You Telestream.

Krypton · Apr 15, 2005, 08:53 AM

I read about this this morning, has the potential to be bloody fantastic

neila · Apr 15, 2005, 01:59 PM

I have been using it all day so far so good. I've seen the quicktime logo more than a dozen times today and the windows media logo once when I trashed it. Flip4Mac definitely gets my

Chuckit · Apr 15, 2005, 02:09 PM

Pretty cool, but since we already have two free players that can handle Windows Media, I don't see any need to be paying for a codec...

Krypton · Apr 15, 2005, 02:13 PM

Yes, but neither WMP:Mac or VLC can play WMV3 files, which are increasingly common.

Chuckit · Apr 15, 2005, 02:28 PM

Really? I've never come across one I couldn't play with either VLC or MPlayer. Guess I'm just lucky.

neila · Apr 15, 2005, 02:47 PM

WMP picture is horrible compared to Quicktime and flip4mac. Download the demo and compare for yourself. With this codec and 3vix installed all that I need is a realplayer codec for the rare occasions that I need it. And to add to Kryptons' post about VLC is that VLC, MPlayer and others are also, "being seriously threatened by software patents due to the numerous patented multimedia techniques. Also threatened are the many programs built upon MPlayer and the other free software multimedia players, like xine, VLC, avifile, gstreamer and especially FFmpeg, which provides the framework all of the above players use (copied from here)."

Chuckit · Apr 15, 2005, 02:59 PM

If that's the case, you can expect these folks to get the hammer soon too.

neila · Apr 15, 2005, 03:24 PM

The apps listed above are not licensed. Here is quote from flip4Mac's site �Telestream's innovative solution now enables the large base of Mac users in the content creation world to create files using Windows Media directly on their own platform,� said Steve Sklepowich, group manager in the Windows Digital Media Division at Microsoft Corp. �Telestream has a history of providing industry-leading solutions for media workflows that require encoding, and its new solution will have broad market appeal.�

Uncle Skeleton · Apr 15, 2005, 03:51 PM

The open source projects face lawsuits because they reverse engineer technology like the WMV file format and don't pay licensing fees on others. The new commercial solutions are different because they (supposedly) do pay the lisencing fees.

PS, WMP:mac does play WMV3 files, but not copy protected ones. I haven't heard whether the new products support copy protected content or not.

neila · Apr 15, 2005, 04:16 PM

I just emailed flip4mac about playing copy protected files. Hopefully I will receive a answer from them shortly.

bmedina · Apr 15, 2005, 04:43 PM

This worked pretty well for me in my few minutes of testing this morning. It could well be worth $10 for playback in Quicktime Player.

Has anyone compared how well-optimized it is compared to WMP? And has anyone tested the browser plugin?

neila · Apr 15, 2005, 05:01 PM

The browser plugin works better than WMP. A file may take one or two seconds longer to load but like quicktime if you view a video clip on the net you can play, stop, rewind and fastforward. Where as in WMP usually play and stop.

CharlesS · Apr 15, 2005, 05:24 PM

Holy crap, this kicks ass.

Thanks for pointing this out, neila!

neila · Apr 15, 2005, 05:37 PM

Your welcome CharlesS

OAW · Apr 15, 2005, 06:41 PM

One very significant and noticeable thing I saw immediately upon using this software with QT is that playback of WMV is much better than WMP. With WMP if you jump to another section of the movie it often takes several seconds for the video to start back again and get in sync with the audio. With QT and Flip4Mac, there is no delay. That alone might make it worth 10 bucks.

OAW

King Bob On The Cob · Apr 15, 2005, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

If that's the case, you can expect these folks to get the hammer soon too.

Why do you think they charge for it? They have a license to do this.

Chuckit · Apr 15, 2005, 07:23 PM

It didn't sound like they were using the same codec as WiMP (since people said it looked better), so I assumed it was an independent project. Guess I done been wrong.

bmedina · Apr 15, 2005, 09:00 PM

The superior quality is probably due to better post-processing. In particular, scaling in WMP is unacceptably poor.

Angus_D · Apr 15, 2005, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It didn't sound like they were using the same codec as WiMP (since people said it looked better), so I assumed it was an independent project. Guess I done been wrong.

WMP for Windows looks fine, too. It's just that the Mac app is a shoddy implementation of the codec

neila · Apr 16, 2005, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

The open source projects face lawsuits because they reverse engineer technology like the WMV file format and don't pay licensing fees on others. The new commercial solutions are different because they (supposedly) do pay the lisencing fees.

PS, WMP:mac does play WMV3 files, but not copy protected ones. I haven't heard whether the new products support copy protected content or not.

I received this email from flip4mac. "Flip4Mac WMV Player does not currently support WMV3 or DRM. It will be implemented in an upcoming version of Flip4Mac."

CharlesS · Apr 16, 2005, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by neila

I received this email from flip4mac. "Flip4Mac WMV Player does not currently support WMV3 or DRM. It will be implemented in an upcoming version of Flip4Mac."

Well, that's odd, since in my experience WMV3 files definitely work with it. I'm able to play WMV files that VLC and mplayer aren't able to...

neila · Apr 16, 2005, 01:48 AM

Right. I also have had no problems with WMV3. Maybe the email was supposed to say this, "Flip4Mac WMV Player does not currently support WMV3 WITH DRM.

Jacke · Apr 16, 2005, 09:35 AM

Can anyone tell me if this also plays wmv3-inside-AVI files? I'm on 10.2.8 myself and can't try it.

BannanaFiend · Apr 16, 2005, 09:54 AM

The site seems to be down. Can anyone throw up an alternate link?

The DJ · Apr 18, 2005, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It didn't sound like they were using the same codec as WiMP (since people said it looked better), so I assumed it was an independent project. Guess I done been wrong.

Duh, that's because they are not. They use their own codebase. That still means they need to pay MS. Something which the Free and Open Source projects cannot and refuse to do.

It's a beautiful money driven world isn't it?

TiaMaster · Apr 24, 2005, 03:33 AM

I have several .wmv's that are WMV3 and none of them are playing in FLip4Mac.

AmericanPsych0 · Apr 25, 2005, 01:28 AM

Ditto, which is why I'm anxious to see an answer to this:

Originally Posted by Jacke

Can anyone tell me if this also plays wmv3-inside-AVI files? I'm on 10.2.8 myself and can't try it.

CaptainHaddock · Apr 25, 2005, 05:16 AM

If they're paying Microsoft, I'm not paying them. I'll use VLC or Mplayer, or do without.

"The open source projects face lawsuits because they reverse engineer technology like the WMV file format and don't pay licensing fees on others."

FUD notwithstanding, show me one lawsuit VLC or Mplayer have been involved with for reverse-engineering WMV.

neila · Apr 25, 2005, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by AmericanPsych0

Ditto, which is why I'm anxious to see an answer to this:

If you can point me to a file on the net I can let you know asap.

neila · Apr 25, 2005, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

If they're paying Microsoft, I'm not paying them. I'll use VLC or Mplayer, or do without.

"The open source projects face lawsuits because they reverse engineer technology like the WMV file format and don't pay licensing fees on others."

FUD notwithstanding, show me one lawsuit VLC or Mplayer have been involved with for reverse-engineering WMV.

Check this link out.

Jacke · Apr 25, 2005, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by neila

If you can point me to a file on the net I can let you know asap.

Here's one I made myself just now: Yousendit or Rapidshare.
It's the Windows Media Sample that came with WMP Mac, converted to AVI with Graphedit on VPC. Plays (though slowly) in VPC with the WV9 VfW codec.

Busemann · Apr 25, 2005, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jacke

Here's one I made myself just now: Yousendit or Rapidshare.
It's the Windows Media Sample that came with WMP Mac, converted to AVI with Graphedit on VPC. Plays (though slowly) in VPC with the WV9 VfW codec.

Doesn't work

Jacke · Apr 25, 2005, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Busemann

Doesn't work

Too bad. Here's hoping for VLC then...

CaptainHaddock · Apr 25, 2005, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by neila

Check this link out.

My point stands, I find no examples of a lawsuit over WMV reverse engineering.

That link refers to the threat that *all* software projects (and free software especially) face if software patents succeed in the EU. It's impossible to write useful software these days without infringing one of the millions of frivolous patents out there.

Uncle Skeleton · Apr 25, 2005, 08:02 PM

VirtualDub got a nastygram from MS-Legal way back when, and that's why it can no longer open ASF files (ASF==WMV with a different file name). VDub is also open-source. I don't have a link, but this is common knowledge and I'm sure it's on the VDub website somewhere. version 1.3c was the last one that still can open ASF/WMV files.

funkboy · Apr 30, 2005, 09:05 PM

Is Flip4Mac compatible with Tiger?

Meritocracy · Apr 30, 2005, 10:59 PM

Yes, it is.

Walker · May 1, 2005, 05:39 AM

Installing this broke MLB.TV.

cseeman · May 25, 2005, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Walker

Installing this broke MLB.TV.

If it's not working yet, it should be RSN.

cseeman
Third Planet Video
Flip4Mac Consultant

Chris Grande · May 25, 2005, 04:50 PM

One major problem is that sites that detect the windows media plugin will no longer work when you install this since it doesn't see the Windows Media Plugin that Flip4Mac installs as being able to play Windows Media Files.

Jacke · May 25, 2005, 05:45 PM

Of course you could remove the internet plug-in and use the WMP plug for streaming/embedded video (as a workaround 'til it's fixed).

Now that it's bumped, has anyone else seen some ridiculous bitrate increases with wmv playback component? I open a wmv file in WMP and see the datarate as 352 kbit/s, but when I open the same file in QT I get a datarate of 67.1 Kbyte/s which is about 536 kbit/s. The data size in the info window confirms the anomaly as QT reports it as 165.1 MB while the actual file is 101.3.

Btw, with the flip4mac component and the "save as avi" component distributed with MPEG Streamclip, Mac users can now actually create wmv3-in-avi, but not play them back. I bet the irony isn't lost on MS

Uncle Skeleton · May 25, 2005, 06:25 PM

maybe F4M is converting the wma audio to a temp file and then QT is showing the size of that (plus the video)

Jacke · May 25, 2005, 07:19 PM

Yep, I was thinking something like that too. Here's some of the results I've seen:
File 1: stubbs_di1028_700.wmv - 14.8 MB
03:24, 710 kbit/s. Audio: Windows Media Audio 9, 64 kbit/s, 44 kHz stereo 1-pass CBR. Video: Windows Media Video 9 (presumably* at 646 kbit/s).
Quicktime reports it as 39.8 MB, audio at 17.8 KB/s, video at 183 KB/s

File 2: 2stream_stubbsdemo_e305_hi.wmv - 101.3 MB
41:46, 352 kbit/s. Audio: Windows media Audio 9, 40 kbit/s, 32 kHz, stereo (A/V) 1-pass CBR. Video Windows Media 9 (presumably* at 312 kbit/s).
Quicktime reports it as 165.1 MB, audio at 5.0 KB/s, video at 62 KB/s.

*The numbers were just from subtracting the audio bitrate as reported by WMP from the total bitrate. It's late and I can't be bothered to calculate that it all matches up.

CharlesS · 10:08 PM