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AmericanPsych0 · Jul 1, 2005, 03:00 AM

An old 333MHz Lombard of my friend's has just been lying around, so we thought to upgrade it to Panther (from OS9). The only issue is that we can't boot off anything but the hard drive. I've tried holding C down, I've done that Cmd+Alt+Shift+Del thing, I've reset the PRAM, I've tried restarting by clicking the "Restart" button from the CD itself, I've tried selecting the CD from the Startup Disk application in the Utilities folder on the Panther CD (and repaired the disk using Disk First Aid in the same folder, though it said everything was fine), and none of it works. I've tried plugging in an external optical drive, but none of those will work either. Hell, I even tried holding Opt down during startup and that didn't do anything, either. The closest I've gotten is an image that cycles between a folder with the Finder icon on it and a folder with a question mark on it. I'm starting to get the feeling that this is a hardware issue.

OperaMan · Jul 1, 2005, 03:18 AM

I did the same thing to that very laptop, but instead I used a laptop drive adapter. I picked one up and installed 10.3 from my quicksilver. It's really easy to take the drive out of that computer. You only need a small screwdriver to remove it from its sled. I don't know what might be making that CD not want to boot, but I recommend my method.

AmericanPsych0 · Jul 2, 2005, 12:09 AM

Could you describe what you did in more detail? I checked the hard drive out and I'm not sure how I could connect it to another computer, even with that laptop drive adapter you mentioned.

gbhgbh · Jul 2, 2005, 09:27 PM

Did you try holding Cmd-C instead of just C during the boot? During the start-up process, does the CD drive spin-up and does it check the CD for the OS?

An alternative, is that if you have an external drive enclosure, put the Lombard drive in it and attach it to one of your newer computers. Then install OSX on it with either a fresh install or with Carbon Copy Cloner. Then replace it back into your Lombard.

AmericanPsych0 · Jul 2, 2005, 10:25 PM

When I hold down C during startup, here's what happens (I'm writing this as I hear it):

The drive sounds like it tries to start spinning. It does it two times, each very quiet and very quick. It pauses a moment, and then it starts spinning. A moment after it gets to what I guess it full speed, it stops. Another quick pause. Then it sounds as if it's reading the CD. Then it starts up again, and it sounds like it starts spinning exactly as it did the first time (before it sounded like it was reading the CD). And then it stops and the "Your computer's booting off the hard drive" Finder icon shows up. It sounds exactly like this every time.

And Cmd+C didn't work.

Also, something I noticed. I'm not sure if it's usual or not, since I never used OS 9, but whenever I try any of these alternative startup key-combos (be it C, Opt, Cmd+Opt+Shift+Del) I don't get the extensions error I do when I try starting up as usual (an error saying I need to restart the computer while holding Shift to turn extensions off).

As for the external enclosures, I have a few, but they're for full-sized hard drives. Looking at this Lombard's hard drive, I'm guessing it needs an enclosure just for laptop-sized hard drives, right?

P.S. How do you install OS X on an external HDD? I tried to do that by starting off the installation CD, but my external HDD wasn't shown in the list of devices to install it to.

gbhgbh · Jul 2, 2005, 11:48 PM

I was wondering if the Lombard was recognizing the OSX CD as a startup CD. See if you can boot an OS8 or OS9 CD. If not, then you have a hardware problem. If so, then it's not recognizing the OSX CD as a startup CD. In which case you may have to install OS 10.1 first, and then upgrade.

As for booting from external devices, the earlier Macs did not include USB drivers in the firmware. The drivers are not loaded until the OS is loaded, therefore you can not boot from USB devices because they are not recognized at that stage of the boot process. However, the Lombard can boot from SCSI devices, so an external SCSI CD drive may be an option.

As for using an external drive enclosure, there are 2.5" enclosures available for about $20 to $30. And if you want to use your existing enclosures, you can find 2.5" to 3.5" hard drive adapters. Using one of these attached to a newer Mac along with Carbon Copy Cloner may be the best alternative.

andgarden · Jul 3, 2005, 12:48 PM

Did Panther come on a CD or DVD? Can you mount the disc at all?

molala · Jul 3, 2005, 06:11 PM

i have Panther running on my 333MHz Lombard, did not have the problems you described, I was able to startup with the OSX CD. I agree with the poster who suggested that you check your CD drive (can you boot with OS8 or 9 CD?).

AmericanPsych0 · Jul 3, 2005, 08:20 PM

I haven't tried booting off an OS 9 CD yet, the main reason for that being I don't own a copy of OS 9 (though the friend whose computer this is does, but I'm not sure if he knows where it is).

But it turns out that I do have a 2.5" enclosure, and was able to mount it externally to another computer. Unfortunately, the hard drive died immediately after I tried screwing around with it. So we're gonna buy a new HDD for the Lombard, install it, and see where things go from there. I'll make another post in a few days (hopefully that soon, anyway) concerning whether or not this is successful.

Thanks for the help so far.