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Who owns the moon? No seriously!
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Socially Awkward Solo
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:17 PM
 
Say Japan tomorrow announced they were going to strip mine it over the next 20 years. Or say Germany said they wanted to blow up Mars cuz it was an eye sore.

It may seem far fetched but in 50 years it will probably happen.

Are there any laws?

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budster101
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:21 PM
 
The United States owns the Moon. We set foot on it first, and by the logic of shipwreck treasure hunters, the first person to remove an artifact from a wreck, or in this case the moon, lays claim to the bounty. Besides, the USA would probably be the first to put some giant billboard up there... "Hooters" two stars up and to the right...

As for Mars. We own that as well, so that would fall under another law. If anyone were to decide to blow it up, they would be charged with property damage and vandalism.

We own everything!

     
blue storm 1337
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:22 PM
 
I think that the germans would rather invade france or exterminate jews/muslims rather than blow up mars.
     
Stradlater
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by blue storm 1337
I think that the germans would rather invade france or exterminate jews/muslims rather than blow up mars.
Classy
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budster101
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by blue storm 1337
I think that the germans would rather invade france or exterminate jews/muslims rather than blow up mars.
     
blue storm 1337
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:26 PM
 
well, uh, i mean, the germans a peace loving people, they would never blow anything up
     
Socially Awkward Solo  (op)
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by blue storm 1337
I think that the germans would rather invade france or exterminate jews/muslims rather than blow up mars.

And the americans think of Mars and a matter of National security. OBL might be hiding WMD on it

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blue storm 1337
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:28 PM
 
damnit quit changing your post!
     
Stradlater
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:29 PM
 
don't you mean the french?
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Chuckit
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:30 PM
 
As far as I know, there are no treaties or anything of the sort regarding heavenly bodies, and any "It's mine!" laws would be pretty pointless if somebody did want to strip mine the Moon, since they wouldn't apply to the other country.

And just for the record, I do not believe Germany will probably decide to blow up Mars in half a century.
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Randman
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:30 PM
 
Actually, isn't there some UN decree on space and interstellar locales being group owned, kinda like Antarctica? Of course, on the moon, it would help if some other nation besides the USA were even able to set foot on it.

This reminds me of an Eddie Izzard skit.

British: We claim India for the Queen!
Indians: You can't do that.
British: Yes, we can. Because we have flags!
Indians: Flags: Damn! Ok, it yours.

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.
     
moodymonster
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:33 PM
 
If you go to Germany its hard to see how they started two world wars 'cause they seem quite nice really - well the ones I met anyway- although there were more than a few who let me attempt to talk German before replying in perfect English


wooh this new forum is a lot faster
     
blue storm 1337
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:34 PM
 
as I stated earlier, the germans wouldn't blow up mars because there aren't any frenchmen or poles or turks living there.. but I think it is quite plausible that bush would invade the moon, if for no other reason than to build a few starbucks there
     
mdc
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:36 PM
 
you too* can own part of the moon

*for a small fee of $32 an acre
     
Stradlater
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by blue storm 1337
as I stated earlier, the germans wouldn't blow up mars because there aren't any frenchmen or poles or turks living there.. but I think it is quite plausible that bush would invade the moon, if for no other reason than to build a few starbucks there
But Bush hates Starbucks!

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Apr 14, 2005, 01:38 PM
 
Untill oil is discovered there, I think the moon is safe from Bush...

But those lunar property people seem to know whats up.
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blue storm 1337
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:40 PM
 
Well apparently the moon has become a national security threat, terrorists might use it to navigate their clipper ships across to america
     
budster101
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:45 PM
 
No, it's ours.... if we did in fact go there in the first place... which we did *not*.

The moon landing was faked. All it had to do was fool the ruskies anyway. Fools.
     
blue storm 1337
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:46 PM
 
ya the moonlanding was totally fake, you can tell because even though thousands of people living today worked on the project, they've all managed to cover it up and keep the conspiracy a secret
     
Stradlater
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:47 PM
 
"You rise," he said, "like Aurora."
     
blue storm 1337
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:49 PM
 
thank you straddy, I'll keep that link next time some conspiracy nut goes on about the great moon hoax
     
Stradlater
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Apr 14, 2005, 01:52 PM
 
I'm not sure you can trust it, it's on Big Brother's webpage.
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nonhuman
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Apr 14, 2005, 02:03 PM
 
The moon belongs to America, and anxiously awaits our astro-men....
     
RonnieoftheRose
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Apr 14, 2005, 02:04 PM
 
My dad owns the moon and is passing it on to me so stay away.
     
Shaddim
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Apr 14, 2005, 02:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo
And the americans think of Mars and a matter of National security. OBL might be hiding WMD on it
Nah, he'd be more likely to hide it in Uranus, since it's so much larger.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Socially Awkward Solo  (op)
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Apr 14, 2005, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
Nah, he'd be more likely to hide it in Uranus, since it's so much larger.
Oh I get it, when did ET come out again because I remember they made an hilarious Uranus joke in that and its not old 20 years later.

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nonhuman
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Apr 14, 2005, 02:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo
Oh I get it, when did ET come out again because I remember they made an hilarious Uranus joke in that and its not old 20 years later.
ET's gay?
     
CaseCom
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Apr 14, 2005, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
Nah, he'd be more likely to hide it in Uranus, since it's so much larger.
http://buyuranus.com/
     
Millennium
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Apr 14, 2005, 02:50 PM
 
One of my friends said, as her very first complete sentence: "I want the moon, now".

I always thought that was funny. It's the now that clinches it.
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
blue storm 1337
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Apr 14, 2005, 03:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo
Oh I get it, when did ET come out again because I remember they made an hilarious Uranus joke in that and its not old 20 years later.
actually it was a brilliant joke because he referring specifically to the size of your anus! I'm not sure how he would know if you are loose, unless there's been a little hanky panky that I don't know about.
     
budster101
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Apr 14, 2005, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Millennium
One of my friends said, as her very first complete sentence: "I want the moon, now".

I always thought that was funny. It's the now that clinches it.
That was rather funny!
     
Socially Awkward Solo  (op)
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Apr 14, 2005, 03:13 PM
 
So many replies, so few answers.

"Laugh it up, fuzz ball!"
     
Macfreak7
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Apr 14, 2005, 03:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman
Actually, isn't there some UN decree on space and interstellar locales being group owned, kinda like Antarctica? Of course, on the moon, it would help if some other nation besides the USA were even able to set foot on it.

This reminds me of an Eddie Izzard skit.

British: We claim India for the Queen!
Indians: You can't do that.
British: Yes, we can. Because we have flags!
Indians: Flags: Damn! Ok, it yours.
Did that skit forget about Gandhi who kicked the Brits out?
     
blue storm 1337
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Apr 14, 2005, 03:30 PM
 
ghandi is burning in hell with ronald reagan
     
Macfreak7
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Apr 14, 2005, 03:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by blue storm 1337
ghandi is burning in hell with ronald reagan
haha such an ignorant moron
     
King Bob On The Cob
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Apr 14, 2005, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by budster101
No, it's ours.... if we did in fact go there in the first place... which we did *not*.

The moon landing was faked. All it had to do was fool the ruskies anyway. Fools.
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html
Why the hell does anyone believe anything they see on Fox anyways?
     
Chuckit
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Apr 14, 2005, 04:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo
So many replies, so few answers.
Welcome to the Lounge, Socially Awkward Solo.
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Zimphire
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Apr 14, 2005, 04:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
Nah, he'd be more likely to hide it in Uranus, since it's so much larger.
AHAHHAHA
     
brapper
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Apr 14, 2005, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by blue storm 1337
I think that the germans would rather invade france or exterminate jews/muslims rather than blow up mars.
everyone, meet the new guy.
     
budster101
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Apr 14, 2005, 04:28 PM
 
New guy, meet everyone.

Your new nickname will be....... Flounder.
Why?
Because I said so!
<burrrrp>
     
Kilbey
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Apr 14, 2005, 04:55 PM
 
Try this one out:
The moon is owned by the dolphins. They used up all the resources and then moved to Earth.
     
residentEvil
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Apr 14, 2005, 05:25 PM
 
Right. They also walked on land but because of humans, had to go back to the ways of the sea.
     
SimpleLife
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Apr 14, 2005, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman
The moon belongs to America, and anxiously awaits our astro-men....
...and gaysmonauts.
     
Socially Awkward Solo  (op)
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Apr 14, 2005, 05:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Welcome to the Lounge, Socially Awkward Solo.
Thanks it's good to be here.

"Laugh it up, fuzz ball!"
     
willed
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Apr 14, 2005, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Macfreak7
Did that skit forget about Gandhi who kicked the Brits out?
Good one. I LOL'd.







I don't think a history of the Indian people was really within the scope of the two minute 'skit'. So no, it didn't mention Gandhi.
     
Stradlater
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Apr 14, 2005, 06:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zimphire
AHAHHAHA
Fanboy.
"You rise," he said, "like Aurora."
     
SimeyTheLimey
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Apr 14, 2005, 06:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo
So many replies, so few answers.
I'll be boring and give you the answer. Nobody owns it. There is an international convention popularly known as the 1967 Outer Space Treaty in which all signatories (basically, everyone) agreed not to claim property rights in bodies in outer space (including the moon).

Article II


Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.
At some point, though, I think this will be reopened. Maybe not in the sense of allowing states to claim entire planets, but in the sense of allowing private property rights in space. The reason is that space needs to be something commercially exploitable in order to encourage the private exploration of space and get governments out of the business. Governments are just not good at the exploration business. That's why we haven't done anything more interesting than paddle in the shallow waters of low Earth orbit since we last went to the moon in 1972.

There's money to be made in space and money has always been the best engine of exploration. There is a potential fortune to be made in things like mining of asteroids and the like, but those investments will be hampered so long as the investors can't claim title. That means the 67 treaty will have to be amended at some point.

Of course, the best thing is that once you have commercial investment in space, there will be commercial disputes in space, and that will necessitate lawyers in space.
     
Zimphire
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Apr 14, 2005, 06:54 PM
 
And pigs in space.
     
ghporter
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Apr 14, 2005, 07:06 PM
 
Thank you Simey!!!! I agree that the matter of the space treaty may be brought up again, but I feel that it will be a matter of partitioning areas that are occupied off from the rest of a body, much as Antarctica is divided up.

Also, Budster, let's remember something said about two years after the treaty Simey cites: "We came in peace for all mankind." Armstrong did NOT claim the moon-far from it. There was much discussion of the point at the time (I do happen to remember this, as I was a ten-year-old space nut at the time) and the consensus from the White House, State Department and NASA was that the moon landing was a feat of HUMAN acomplishment. This was also incidentally a pointed jab at the Soviets who had been expected to establish the Lunar Commissariat as soon as they touched down.

From a strategic standpoint, the Moon is quite interesting from a national security standpoint. Standing on the Moon puts you in the ultimate (in relative terms) high ground. With an appropriate weapon, a moon base could strike ANYWHERE on Earth. That weapon could be something as simple as a launcher that throws rocks; simply escaping the Moon's gravity on a trajectory that does not exit the Earth-Moon system puts the rock on a downhill track to land somewhere on Earth. With a little not-too-complicated planing and suitable calculation of the rock's mass and direction, you can target any spot, even the poles.

There's another treaty that bans the use of weapons in space, and bans the basing of weapons in space. This treaty is as far as I know still in force, though the Soviets did manage to violate it quite thoroughly near the end of their time. Our "Star Wars" projects were always carefully planed to avoid violating the treaty. Now for the troublesome part of what's banned in that treaty: it doesn't cover "trafic accidents" in orbit, though all it takes to destroy a satellite is another one impacting it. Kind of a quandry, eh?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
d0ubled0wn
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Apr 14, 2005, 07:22 PM
 
Mooninites!
     
 
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