[omac]

and..why?

xp sux..

[ChaChi Boy]

[Smircle]

Would it validate your miserable life if they did?

[omac]

sooo funnee....

[turboSPE]

Originally posted by omac:
<STRONG>and..why?

xp sux..</STRONG>

Why would I be jealous of OS X? I've been very happy with my XP box and not quite as happy with my OS 9/X iBook. Good question though.

turboSPE

[Nonsuch]

The only thing they're probably jealous of is the (lack of) product activation.

[ROFL]

Both OS's have good and bad things about them. If I couldn't run apache/php/mysql on OSX then I would probably say I actually like XP more. But they're both really stable and usable, IMHO of course.

[bbt]

no

[jclarkv]

Well, you can't be jealous of something you've never used or seen and I would bet the vast majority of xp users haven't seen/used OS X. I've used XP at work and had to help several colleagues configure their XP machines for 802.11b. I don't miss it. Pain-in-the-ass.

[kennethmac2000]

What about the fact that Windows has been able to share printers since the heady days of Windows 95?

[x user]

So has Mac...

E-net...

LocalTalk...

[Targon]

Originally posted by Smircle:
<STRONG>Would it validate your miserable life if they did?</STRONG>

u just made my day

[moreno]

are macos x users jealous of windows xp ?
SURE.

[C.J. Moof]

Right now, I'm jealous of any OS that can get output from my inkjet printer reliably, not magically cut off sound to the speakers, scroll when I click the button (not 2 seconds after), and never wake from sleep and decide to put everything in all caps.... just a sample of some of the quirky stuff I've had to deal with in X.

Oh yeah- not to mention having it blow it's brains out 2x this week on my powerbook. Now after reinstalling it, I can't get Software Update to work right- can't get a useful error message to figure out what to do differently to pacify it...

I don't see a whole lot to be jealous of. OS X is far from perfect.

[mikemako]

nope.

[goatnet]

Maybe it's my Unix background (it was my major in college), but the differences between XP and X aren't even in the same ballpark. It ain't even the same ****in sport.

Let's put it this way... I run an FTP site, one that I don't want to have on the same port everyday (due to people hammering the site). I also want to add a new directory every morning at 12am. Thanks to cron, date, grep, and bash it's darn easy. Windows might be moving away from the command line (which is a HUGE mistake, IMHO), why do I need to waste time in a GUI shell creating directories when I can type 'mkdir' and finish it half the time it takes the average person to hit 'splat + shift + N', select the icon, and retype the directory? X just makes sense, XP and Win 2k are bloated mistakes.

[Drizzt]

Posts: 208
From: Madison, WI
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 04-20-2002 03:29 PM ��� ���� �� �� ��
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Right now, I'm jealous of any OS that can get output from my inkjet printer reliably, not magically cut off sound to the speakers, scroll when I click the button (not 2 seconds after), and never wake from sleep and decide to put everything in all caps.... just a sample of some of the quirky stuff I've had to deal with in X.

Oh yeah- not to mention having it blow it's brains out 2x this week on my powerbook. Now after reinstalling it, I can't get Software Update to work right- can't get a useful error message to figure out what to do differently to pacify it...

I don't see a whole lot to be jealous of. OS X is far from perfect.

Man.. that's aweful.. you must have something wrong with your computer.. haven't seen most of these problems on a slew of Macs..

[kmkkid]

Some of you will never stop with the windows bashing. It's really sad
XP is Great! I have had no problems with it at all, and NO crashes, now how many people have never had a mac crash? I have heard lots have, even though I have never used a mac yet, I can assume since OS X is unix based that it will have alot of hard crashes compared to XP. And I cant see a mac being &gt;that&lt; much easier to use then XP, and as for the guy above taking about making directories... hmmmm you can tell you use a mac 24/7 when u start stating keyboard commands lmao XP is a GUI based OS therefore use the GUI! A mouse is much faster then using even keyboard commands right click new folder type in the name, not hard Anyways I can bet OS X is great and I cant wait till I get my imac, but untill then I cant comment on the overall bugginess, but XP is fairly bug free, alot of these vunerabilities in XP are comming from the apps like msn and IE, so thats not entirely the OS' fault

Anyways just be sympathetic to us windows users who have had no choice or no options but to use windows All OS' have their strengths and weaknesses so let's just call them even

Chris

*edit* btw some may think I dont use my computer much to have had no crashes on XP, but I am in fact a very heavy user, I run photoshop (7 now), flash mx, illustrator 10, Word all sorts of mp3 editing software and many file sharing clients all of the time. Also sometimes an ftp or webserver. So I have indeed found it to be very reliable and stable compared to all previous windows versions even 2k. And it's prettier too, something you mac users can appreciate with the new OS X gui

[ 04-20-2002: Message edited by: kmkkid ]

[cpt kangarooski]

While I agree that it's not a good idea to ignore CLIs, Apple has proven itself to be no better than MS. After all, Apple has thoroughly failed to improve the CLI. It's still the same lackluster terminal that's been around for decades. The last substantial improvement to _any_ terminal was the addition of a scrollback buffer, and frankly, that was just playing catch up to tty terminals that provided that function naturally.

Hell, Apple's even failed to substantially improve the GUI since the introduction of System 7 in 1990. The Newton, OpenDoc and Kaledia were all good attempts, but failures. A pretty blue skin is not GUI innovation -- new functionality that permits users to more easily do things is. WinXP is terribly, terribly broken in many places, but at least it is improving, I'll give MS that much. Certainly there are numerous usability features in XP that Apple would do well to take a long hard look at, as well as other abominations that are cautionary lessons, and to be avoided.

[Groovy]

well i own a dual 1Ghz G4 and a 2.2Ghz P4 I use them about 70/30.
The P4 is about 10ft from me right now encoding a divX cap.

OS X trounces XP in all areas. Simple as that. XP is a dog with more
fleas than OS X every had.

I still can't get some basic stuff to work because there are SO MANY HUGE bugs in XP.
I asked supposed XP experts in the M$ forums and they are all stumped.

XP also has a ton of graphic glitches like dragging windows and copies of it
leaving a trail behind until you let go of the mouse button. i was stuck
messing with BIOS settings over and over and it crashes too darn much
because of drivers issues.

I have an ATI 8500 in my mac and a ATI 8500 all in wonder in the P4

power management is a JOKE. On a mac you can run a server in sleep mode
and it will only come out of it if the CPU load gets real high. On this dell P4
it is all or nothing.


half the the time the wake on lan doesn't even work so i'm forced
to never let it go into standby mode. and another bug is if you set
standby more than 30 minutes it will never go into standby mode because
a bug (feature?) of XP runs the scheduler every 30 minutes and resets
the standby mode count down so that it never goes to into standby mode.

i can send to XP at 11.3 megs a second but sending FROM XP
only 4 megs a second because XP is checking all sorts of nonsense
to the point I had to go into the registry and and set many defaults
to values to turn off a tone of stuff

I'm talking basic stuff here is broken big time.

[Cipher13]

Oh yeah, if I was an XP user, I'd sure be jealous of the intolerable speed, constant HD paging, lack of apps, COMPLETELY lack of DECENT apps, 'form over function' principles, and so forth...

[jarinteractive]

My roommate here at college has been converted -- he just needs money! he currently hasw a PC with Windows XP Pro and it has given him many problems. He sees my computers that don't crash and do work and he now wants a mac. He has played around on my computers to try it out to, so it's not just his view of how well I like it -- he has his own experience.

-JARinteractive

PS I have a PowerMac G3 350 and TiBook 500

[x user]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
<STRONG>Some of you will never stop with the windows bashing. It's really sad
XP is Great! I have had no problems with it at all, and NO crashes, now how many people have never had a mac crash? I have heard lots have, even though I have never used a mac yet, I can assume since OS X is unix based that it will have alot of hard crashes compared to XP. And I cant see a mac being &gt;that&lt; much easier to use then XP, and as for the guy above taking about making directories... hmmmm you can tell you use a mac 24/7 when u start stating keyboard commands lmao XP is a GUI based OS therefore use the GUI! A mouse is much faster then using even keyboard commands right click new folder type in the name, not hard Anyways I can bet OS X is great and I cant wait till I get my imac, but untill then I cant comment on the overall bugginess, but XP is fairly bug free, alot of these vunerabilities in XP are comming from the apps like msn and IE, so thats not entirely the OS' fault

Anyways just be sympathetic to us windows users who have had no choice or no options but to use windows All OS' have their strengths and weaknesses so let's just call them even

Chris

*edit* btw some may think I dont use my computer much to have had no crashes on XP, but I am in fact a very heavy user, I run photoshop (7 now), flash mx, illustrator 10, Word all sorts of mp3 editing software and many file sharing clients all of the time. Also sometimes an ftp or webserver. So I have indeed found it to be very reliable and stable compared to all previous windows versions even 2k. And it's prettier too, something you mac users can appreciate with the new OS X gui

[ 04-20-2002: Message edited by: kmkkid ]</STRONG>

It varies by machine for some reason, but the majority of people have no problems with X at ALL. I've had 3 kernal panics since the PUBLIC BETA. For me X has been 5x more stable at least than OS 9, and at least 10x more stable than any windows machine (i haven't used XP, only 3.1/95/98/2000)

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>Oh yeah, if I was an XP user, I'd sure be jealous of the intolerable speed, constant HD paging, lack of apps, COMPLETELY lack of DECENT apps, 'form over function' principles, and so forth... </STRONG>

Tolerable is an opinion, but so is jealousy. Yes, it is slow. Some of us can tolerate it (that doesn't mean we'll live with it forever, just that we can tolerate it now). The HD paging is your own fault. Get RAM or deal with it. Form over function applies but not nearly as much as you think. Yes, the shadows are for looks. Yes, the transparency is for looks. Yes, the Dock is filled with demo-able stuff. That's form over function. Being built on UNIX and having the CLI. That's function over form. It's amazing that with this complete lack of apps I can do all my work without classic.

There's a scale. You're on the opposite end of it from me, obviously. You look for the bad in the good. I look for the good in the bad. Realistically, I see that OS X needs more work, but seeing that I've used it full time for the last year, I've learned a crap load from it and about it, and I still manage to get things done, it can't be all bad.

[JLL]

Originally posted by cpt kangarooski:
<STRONG>While I agree that it's not a good idea to ignore CLIs, Apple has proven itself to be no better than MS. After all, Apple has thoroughly failed to improve the CLI. It's still the same lackluster terminal that's been around for decades. The last substantial improvement to _any_ terminal was the addition of a scrollback buffer, and frankly, that was just playing catch up to tty terminals that provided that function naturally.

Hell, Apple's even failed to substantially improve the GUI since the introduction of System 7 in 1990. The Newton, OpenDoc and Kaledia were all good attempts, but failures. A pretty blue skin is not GUI innovation -- new functionality that permits users to more easily do things is. WinXP is terribly, terribly broken in many places, but at least it is improving, I'll give MS that much. Certainly there are numerous usability features in XP that Apple would do well to take a long hard look at, as well as other abominations that are cautionary lessons, and to be avoided.</STRONG>

Not you again


When do we see the release of kangaroOSki? I heard it will have one helluva GUI.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Xeo:
<STRONG>Tolerable is an opinion, but so is jealousy. Yes, it is slow. Some of us can tolerate it (that doesn't mean we'll live with it forever, just that we can tolerate it now). The HD paging is your own fault. Get RAM or deal with it. Form over function applies but not nearly as much as you think. Yes, the shadows are for looks. Yes, the transparency is for looks. Yes, the Dock is filled with demo-able stuff. That's form over function. Being built on UNIX and having the CLI. That's function over form. It's amazing that with this complete lack of apps I can do all my work without classic.

There's a scale. You're on the opposite end of it from me, obviously. You look for the bad in the good. I look for the good in the bad. Realistically, I see that OS X needs more work, but seeing that I've used it full time for the last year, I've learned a crap load from it and about it, and I still manage to get things done, it can't be all bad.</STRONG>

Uh, the fact that the shadows are there, and the transparency, etc, sorta dilutes the fact that it all runs on Unix.

Memory is my own fault? No, I'm afraid it's Apples, Mr. Apologist. I have 704 megs of RAM. The fact that an OS requires that much is pathetic.

Need I say more?

[clebin]

If you'd spent the last five years using Windows 95/98, you'd think XP was so super-great that the Mac couldn't possibly better it.... You might even think the Mac is still old-fashioned and prone to Type 11 crashes every day or so.

In general, though, it seems Windows users who really use OS X end up falling in love with it. That's damn impressive because

1) OS X is quite immature with lots of weaknesses - which Cipher13 will be happy to rattle off for you if you need it , and
2) XP is so mature that it's hard to imagine how the next release won't be of WinME-style proportions...

Chris

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>
Need I say more?</STRONG>

uh, no�

[macmicke]

Originally posted by C.J. Moof:
<STRONG>Right now, I'm jealous of any OS that can get output from my inkjet printer reliably, not magically cut off sound to the speakers, scroll when I click the button (not 2 seconds after), and never wake from sleep and decide to put everything in all caps.... just a sample of some of the quirky stuff I've had to deal with in X.

Oh yeah- not to mention having it blow it's brains out 2x this week on my powerbook. Now after reinstalling it, I can't get Software Update to work right- can't get a useful error message to figure out what to do differently to pacify it...

I don't see a whole lot to be jealous of. OS X is far from perfect.</STRONG>

You need to begin with a reformat of your HD. I have seen all of your dialogs, and it has always been when OS X was installed without reformating the disk first.
Some of the dialogs are just anoying bugs either in the program or system. For example the log out time out. That happens when OS X Fails to shutdown a program, like for instance if you have something unsaved in a program. If you know that Classic should be shutting down, but doesn't, just kill it...
But this was not wether XP Users are jealous, so I wont say no more...


[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: macmicke ]

[starman]

Not if they're gamers. Not by a longshot.

Mike

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by SMacTech:
<STRONG>

uh, no�</STRONG>

LOL! BEST ANSWER EVAR!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>
Memory is my own fault? No, I'm afraid it's Apples, Mr. Apologist. I have 704 megs of RAM. The fact that an OS requires that much is pathetic.
</STRONG>

STFU...with 704MB of ram you hardly get any paging if any at all. What the hell are you doing with your box? Folding proteins, finding signs of intelligent life in the universe while rendering a 3D model and applying filters to a 2D background image for your next movie that you're currently burning to DVD all simulataneously?

Get real.

The only fault around here is when your mother accidently conceived you.

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]

[Groovy]

OSX only needs 384 to run great IMHO. OS X uses it ALL before it starts to page out.
The ram hog is classic mode and if you set an app to 200 megs in classic it uses 200
megs in classic. In OS X you get ram as you need it.

Now XP is a dog even with 512 because it pages out constantly even with 200+ f
ree ram on my box. It is insane XP does not use the ram and pagesouts.

mac users do not realize how much better sleep mode is than standby mode on XP
which is a freaking joke.

XP even on my 2.2Ghz Dell P4 is SLOW and i have an ATI 8500 All in Wonder card.
The main reason it is slow is DISK PAGEOUTS constantly. Now SP1 is supposed
to fix that and 4000+ other bugs but it is not out yet. So as of TODAY
OS X is MUCH better IMHO than XP and looks better and the GUI is better
I mean on XP you go to the start menu to SHUT DOWN THE PC

Yes OS X has problems too but not as bad as XP and OS X is more fun to tinker with.
In fact OSX IMHO has an inviting feeling about it that makes you feel like messin'
around with scripts and CLI stuff.

On XP it feels cold and like you only do that stuff to fix something.


all IMHO of course : )

[JLL]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>

LOL! BEST ANSWER EVAR!!!!!!!!!!!</STRONG>

Who's Evar?

[JLL]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>�finding signs of intelligent life in the universe�</STRONG>

Well it couldn't find any in a radius of 10 meters so it had to look somewhere else.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by kennethmac2000:
<STRONG>What about the fact that Windows has been able to share printers since the heady days of Windows 95?</STRONG>

Wow, that's impressive. The Mac was able to share printers when the first LaserWriter came out with AppleTalk support. When was that, 1987?

[Bruce O'Neal]

i am bi. i have a win XP box at home and an apple g4/733 running OS X. there are things i like about both, and things that really get on my nerves about both. the apple finder is still not as robust as the file manager in win XP. you can e-mail, edit photos from the win XP finder/file manager and you cannot even e-mail from the mac finder. this is one feature i would really like apple to implement.

i don't want to start a war, and need to reiterate that i bought my 2nd mac, just so i could use os x without having to share my partner's computer. most of my work is now done in os x, with the win xp box has been relegated to the children.

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by Groovy:
<STRONG>OSX only needs 384 to run great IMHO. OS X uses it ALL before it starts to page out.
The ram hog is classic mode and if you set an app to 200 megs in classic it uses 200
megs in classic. In OS X you get ram as you need it.

Now XP is a dog even with 512 because it pages out constantly even with 200+ f
ree ram on my box. It is insane XP does not use the ram and pagesouts.

mac users do not realize how much better sleep mode is than standby mode on XP
which is a freaking joke.

XP even on my 2.2Ghz Dell P4 is SLOW and i have an ATI 8500 All in Wonder card.
The main reason it is slow is DISK PAGEOUTS constantly. Now SP1 is supposed
to fix that and 4000+ other bugs but it is not out yet. So as of TODAY
OS X is MUCH better IMHO than XP and looks better and the GUI is better
I mean on XP you go to the start menu to SHUT DOWN THE PC

Yes OS X has problems too but not as bad as XP and OS X is more fun to tinker with.
In fact OSX IMHO has an inviting feeling about it that makes you feel like messin'
around with scripts and CLI stuff.

On XP it feels cold and like you only do that stuff to fix something.


all IMHO of course : )</STRONG>

I dont see how XP can be slow on your machine, I run it on a 800 Mhz Duron with 640 MB of ram and it is very fast. Blame the 4000+ bugs on the beloved US gov't for rushing MS into releasing an unfinished unoptimized XP before it's time. It was originally planned for released mid 2002, but was released very premature due to legal issues. The GUI in XP is also skinnable, and allows you to change alot more then OSX allows from the themes I have seen. Also the start menu in XP is great, It's very usefull infact (shows my most recent apps, and has a list of apps I can add, also shortcuts to my admin tools, and other great XP features ), so it's not just to shutdown the computer I am getting the new imac as soon as I can, but I will always love windows, it is simply the best desktop OS out right now in terms of applications, speed, and usability But I'm sure I'll love OS X just as much Cause it is pretty afterall But production is what a computer is for, not looks, so we'll see how the two compare when my imac arrives

[bbt]

'If you'd spent the last five years using Windows 95/98, you'd think XP was so super-great that the Mac couldn't possibly better it.... You might even think the Mac is still old-fashioned and prone to Type 11 crashes every day or so.
In general, though, it seems Windows users who really use OS X end up falling in love with it. That's damn impressive because

1) OS X is quite immature with lots of weaknesses - which Cipher13 will be happy to rattle off for you if you need it , and
2) XP is so mature that it's hard to imagine how the next release won't be of WinME-style proportions...'

i don't think that xp is all that great except for its integrated drivers and some of it's networking features

i really don't care for all the colors and animation

it's like another version of nt or win2k

for the most part it runs fine for me and it's fast even on old h/w

i think that os x is better than earlier versions of mac os but it does run a bit slower for me

[bbt]

'Now XP is a dog even with 512 because it pages out constantly even with 200+ f
ree ram on my box. It is insane XP does not use the ram and pagesouts'

change the settings to no paging

most graphic apps will run fine with no paging except ps, even with a gig ram, so for this set as little as allowed for the memory dump

[IUJHJSDHE]

Originally posted by goatnet:
<STRONG>Maybe it's my Unix background (it was my major in college), but the differences between XP and X aren't even in the same ballpark. It ain't even the same ****in sport.

Let's put it this way... I run an FTP site, one that I don't want to have on the same port everyday (due to people hammering the site). I also want to add a new directory every morning at 12am. Thanks to cron, date, grep, and bash it's darn easy. Windows might be moving away from the command line (which is a HUGE mistake, IMHO), why do I need to waste time in a GUI shell creating directories when I can type 'mkdir' and finish it half the time it takes the average person to hit 'splat + shift + N', select the icon, and retype the directory? X just makes sense, XP and Win 2k are bloated mistakes.</STRONG>

Moving away from unix is a mistake, moving away from DOS is not.

Unix is great!
And I agree, GUI's are great but having a unix CLI underered makes it better

<font color = red> &lt;EDIT&gt;: Adding some extra comments </font>

Originally posted by kmkkid:
<STRONG> I can assume since OS X is unix based that it will have alot of hard crashes compared to XP.</STRONG>

OMG.

X has only freezed up 4 times in the months and months I have been using it. Thats it! 4 freezes, AND I AM ON 192mb of ram!!

No Kernal Panics, just 4 freezes!!

And I have had me CD burner, external HD, Mouse, Networking, and about everything else work FIRST GO!!

The only bad thing I have seen happen is when my Mac stoped working because stupid me filled the HD up so much that it had only a few mb left!

Anyone else care to comment??

Originally posted by kmkkid:
<STRONG>XP is fairly bug free, alot of these vunerabilities in XP are comming from the apps like msn and IE, so thats not entirely the OS' fault </STRONG>

No but its Micro$ofts fault and they make the OS, Who knows what problems we may not even know about yet

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: IUJHJSDHE ]