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Eug Wanker · Apr 16, 2005, 02:04 AM

Panther 10.3.9's new Safari 1.3 (which apparently uses Tiger's Safari 2.0 engine) is simply awesome: JSBench

10.3.8: 104 seconds

10.3.9: 9.97 seconds

Abit667 · Apr 16, 2005, 02:36 AM

Yes indeed it is. I think we finally have a useable browser!

It really bothered me that one of the big problems with my mac was that my brothers p2 366 laptop was faster on the web sometimes.

CaptainHaddock · Apr 16, 2005, 03:26 AM

I just read the update at Dave Hyatt's website, and was impressed to learn that inline rich text editing is now part of Safari. CMS developers are going to love this!

sieb · Apr 16, 2005, 03:46 AM

1.2Ghz 15" PB, 768MB, 10.3.9

Firefox = 29.01

Safari= 10.53

Test 6 took 15 seconds in FF, as opposed to 4 in Safari, impressive..

mac15 · Apr 16, 2005, 04:15 AM

I've been enjoying the improvements for weeks now, Safari 2.0 and 1.3 use the same webcore

Big Mac · Apr 16, 2005, 04:16 AM

Wow. It's quite nice of Apple to be considerate to those who are not upgrading to Tiger immediately. So 1.3 uses 2.0's rendering engine? I was planning on waiting for Tiger, but perhaps I should jump in, especially since I have seen only good things written so far.

Grrr · Apr 16, 2005, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Abit667

I think we finally have a useable browser!

Safari has been useable since it's very early days, in my experience.

While im here, Unless it is a placebo effect, the dreaded gif vs cpu issue seems to have been improved some also.

JayTay · Apr 16, 2005, 06:08 AM

Hmmm, Safari keeps crashing randomly for me and now I can't use the keyboard shortcut to switch between open tabs. Bugger.

Edit: Wait, it seems the keyboard shortcut came back randomly just after I posted this. This is all very strange.

chrisford · Apr 16, 2005, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by JayTay

Hmmm, Safari keeps crashing randomly for me and now I can't use the keyboard shortcut to switch between open tabs. Bugger.

Edit: Wait, it seems the keyboard shortcut came back randomly just after I posted this. This is all very strange.

Weirder still, my keyboard shortcut to switch tabs works from this tab (MacNN)
to Yahoo (next tab) but then stops working. If I click back into the MacNN tab, I can keyboard shortcut to Yahoo again. But nowhere else.

100% repeatable too. Rats.

c

Appleman · Apr 16, 2005, 06:56 AM

Yes, really fast indeed! Have bought (well, ordered Tiger anyway, but this is really nice! And yes, while Safari has always been usable to me, peecee-users had a bit quicker experience on the web I think. Haven't seen any tests like IE 6 peecee vs Safari 1.3 though. Anyone?

Appleman · Apr 16, 2005, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by chrisford

Weirder still, my keyboard shortcut to switch tabs works from this tab (MacNN)
to Yahoo (next tab) but then stops working. If I click back into the MacNN tab, I can keyboard shortcut to Yahoo again. But nowhere else.

How do you switch tabs by using a keyboard shortcut? It's not in the Keyboard shortcuts list in Safari Help?

Deimos · Apr 16, 2005, 07:08 AM

Tab switching has changed. It's now CMD+Shift+{ for previous, and } for Next.

Had me scratching my head, too.

JayTay · Apr 16, 2005, 07:29 AM

The old method still (mostly) works though....

naphtali · Apr 16, 2005, 07:30 AM

Command + Left and Command + Right still work for me for tab switching

Appleman · Apr 16, 2005, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Deimos

Tab switching has changed. It's now CMD+Shift+{ for previous, and } for Next.

Had me scratching my head, too.

Hm, I was confused first, as you said Command + Shift +

It only made my text bigger ( CMD + ) but I now understand you meant CMD Shift Arrow

chrisford · Apr 16, 2005, 07:38 AM

Ah, Thanks for that Deimos. Had me puzzled. Does anyone know the logic behind this change?

Big Mac · Apr 16, 2005, 07:47 AM

WOW WOW WOW. Have you guys noticed how absolutely fluid resizing in Safari is now? At least for me, on my DP 2.0, it is now blazingly fast! Apple finally figured it out! On the other hand, button scrolling in Safari remains sluggish (in contrast to what others have written), but resizing is so totally fast now. Strangely, the third test of JS suite is a bit slower than the result Eug got (1.588). Even stranger, after applying the update, my G5's power light forgot to go on.

Group51 · Apr 16, 2005, 08:30 AM

Wow, I just tried scrolling up and down this forum page.

Nice! It *feels* like IE 6!

Appleman · Apr 16, 2005, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Even stranger, after applying the update, my G5's power light forgot to go on.

Not on mine G5 DP 2

Eug Wanker · 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

I just read the update at Dave Hyatt's website, and was impressed to learn that inline rich text editing is now part of Safari. CMS developers are going to love this!

Heh. I just read that. The least you could have done was provide a link, instead of making me look for it...

Dave Hyatt's blog: Surfin' Safari

Those of you running Panther can now update to 10.3.9. This update includes Safari 1.3 and new versions of WebKit, WebCore, and JavaScriptCore that contain thousands of improvements we've made to the engine since Safari 1.2.

What you are getting is all of the new standards support, new WebKit capabilites, site compatibility fixes and performance optimizations that are also present in Safari 2.0 for Tiger. The layout engines for the two are virtually identical.

Here are some of the highlights:

Page Load Performance
Safari 1.3 loads pages overall 35% faster than 1.2 as measured by IBench. In addition to improving the overall page load, Safari 1.3 will display content sooner than 1.2 did, so that subresources don't hold up the initial display of the page.

JavaScript Performance
We have substantially improved the performance of the JavaScript engine in Safari. I encourage you to check out Safari 1.3 on this benchmark for example to see the improvement relative to 1.2.

Did I mention it's really really fast?

Eug Wanker · Apr 16, 2005, 10:00 AM

Text in maps.google.com is now all screwy.

Randman · Apr 16, 2005, 10:05 AM

Bookmark folders are still screwy, even after a combo update.

TETENAL · Apr 16, 2005, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Group51

Wow, I just tried scrolling up and down this forum page.

Nice! It *feels* like IE 6!

Scrolling was always fast. There was never any noticeable delay so it was as fast as it could be.

Resizing is the same as before for me too.

Eug Wanker · Apr 16, 2005, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Text in maps.google.com is now all screwy.

If you select the Windows MSIE 6.0 user agent from the Safari Debug Menu, Google Maps works just fine. Go back to the default, and Google Maps is all screwed up again.

MaxPower2k3 · Apr 16, 2005, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

I just read the update at Dave Hyatt's website, and was impressed to learn that inline rich text editing is now part of Safari. CMS developers are going to love this!

Not only that, but gmail's Rich Text editing should be available in Safari soon, i assume.

moodymonster · Apr 16, 2005, 12:21 PM

I was just about to post that while Safari 1.3 is much quicker rendering, its slower to launch - I noticed this wasn't the case on another account on the same computer. I trashed the "icons" folder in the Safari folder in that user's preferences - went from 10 bounces to 2!

thought I'd still post in case anyone else experience the same - also noticed the GIFs on the rely page don't slow Safari down.

Eug Wanker · Apr 16, 2005, 12:23 PM

On my first launch, Safari took quite a long time. After that it was fine though. I didn't trash any icons or anything.

P.S. Does anyone have JSBench numbers on G5s and G3s? I only have G4s.

Garage81 · Apr 16, 2005, 12:43 PM

how do you fix pith helmet for the new safari, anyone know?

Taipan · 05:37 PM

Hi!

Originally Posted by moodymonster

I was just about to post that while Safari 1.3 is much quicker rendering, its slower to launch - I noticed this wasn't the case on another account on the same computer. I trashed the "icons" folder in the Safari folder in that user's preferences - went from 10 bounces to 2!

I noticed that a while ago. I set the rights of the owner (myself) on the folder ~/Library/Safari/Icons to read only, so no new icon files will be created.

Originally Posted by Deimos

Tab switching has changed. It's now CMD+Shift+{ for previous, and } for Next.

Can anyone tell me what that would be on a German keyboard?

nforcer · Apr 16, 2005, 02:55 PM

It still has a debug menu, which means it still has debug code, which means it is not as snappy as it could be

analogika · Apr 16, 2005, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Taipan

Can anyone tell me what [tab switching] would be on a German keyboard?

Cmd-Shift-Right Arrow
Cmd-Shift-Left Arrow

TETENAL · Apr 16, 2005, 03:59 PM

Or ⌥⌘� and ⌥⌘� . See the Window menu.

OreoCookie · Apr 16, 2005, 04:02 PM

Very often, umlaute are used to replace shortcuts with hard-to-reach characters (e. g. backslash, backticks).

Weyland-Yutani · Apr 16, 2005, 04:12 PM

Safari 1.3 sure crashes faster than anything I've ever seen. It crashes before it finishes booting up! Bad Apple!

mitchell_pgh · Apr 16, 2005, 04:18 PM

I've noticed some CSS weirdness.

analogika · Apr 16, 2005, 04:21 PM

no problems at all here.

Safari rocks.

Eug Wanker · Apr 16, 2005, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Safari 1.3 sure crashes faster than anything I've ever seen. It crashes before it finishes booting up! Bad Apple!

Haxies and 3rd party add-ons to Safari are apparently wreaking havoc. Do you have any of those things installed?

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

P.S. Does anyone have JSBench numbers on G5s and G3s? I only have G4s.

I'm hearing that G3s still are slow at JavaScript, not only on JSBench, but also at Weather.com.

Weyland-Yutani · Apr 16, 2005, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Haxies and 3rd party add-ons to Safari are apparently wreaking havoc. Do you have any of those things installed?

I'm hearing that G3s still are slow at JavaScript, not only on JSBench, but also at Weather.com.

No, no haxies, 3rd party add-ons or anything. Just Safari and OS 10.3.9

Eug Wanker · Apr 16, 2005, 05:00 PM

Weyland-Yutani, try installing the 2005-002 Security Update again and/or the combo update.

Dale Sorel · Apr 16, 2005, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Safari 1.3 sure crashes faster than anything I've ever seen. It crashes before it finishes booting up! Bad Apple!

Get rid of both AcidSearch and PithHelmet

saltines17 · 10:39 PM

Safari 1.3 broke yahoo games java applets. Boo.

edit: And then I updated my Java. All better.

Weyland-Yutani · Apr 16, 2005, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dale Sorel

Get rid of both AcidSearch and PithHelmet

As I wrote above "No, no haxies, 3rd party add-ons or anything. Just Safari and OS 10.3.9"

Thanks anyway.

Eug Wanker: I'll try the security update.

nforcer · Apr 16, 2005, 11:16 PM

Yahoo's front page has a problem in 1.3 that did not exist in 1.2, namely that it lacks an important space between the news on the right and the directory listing on the left.

Is it just me or does anyone else hate the new webkit selection highlight stuff? In pre-1.3, as you selected text on a page it would mostly highlight the text, skipping a lot of whitespace, borders, etc. In 1.3, page selection highlights parts of tables and controls and a lot of other stuff that does not accurately convey what will be copied. To make matters worse, even though a lot of whitespace is highlighted, if you click on an area of highlighted whitepsace to drag the text somewhere, it unselects everything. Very deceptive and annoying. What was wrong with the old highlighting?

osxisfun · Apr 16, 2005, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by nforcer

Yahoo's front page has a problem in 1.3 that did not exist in 1.2, namely that it lacks an important space between the news on the right and the directory listing on the left.

Is it just me or does anyone else hate the new webkit selection highlight stuff? In pre-1.3, as you selected text on a page it would mostly highlight the text, skipping a lot of whitespace, borders, etc. In 1.3, page selection highlights parts of tables and controls and a lot of other stuff that does not accurately convey what will be copied. To make matters worse, even though a lot of whitespace is highlighted, if you click on an area of highlighted whitepsace to drag the text somewhere, it unselects everything. Very deceptive and annoying. What was wrong with the old highlighting?

if i had a buck for everytime safari did not copy the selected text i would buy everyone a beer....and this would include all of china.

will wait and see on 1.3 safari.

Eug Wanker · Apr 17, 2005, 12:17 AM

The selection in Safari 1.3 is way better than 1.2.

osxisfun · Apr 17, 2005, 12:19 AM

thanks eug.

jay3ld · Apr 17, 2005, 01:24 AM

ok. i got some mods in my safari. will i have to copy them all over to the new 10.3?

Randman · Apr 17, 2005, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by jay3ld

ok. i got some mods in my safari. will i have to copy them all over to the new 10.3?

Yes. If they work. Pith needs an update, for example.

Don Pickett · Apr 17, 2005, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by Randman

Yes. If they work. Pith needs an update, for example.

Indeed it does. I got PH to work using the hack in the 10.3.9 thread in Mac OS, but it slowed Safari way down. The Java tests with PH installed took 84 seconds. Without only 10.

Randman · Apr 17, 2005, 02:50 AM

Edit: Seems pith now has an update for 1.3.