[Eynstyn]

What does it say that this organization would deny membership to this woman???

Something aint right here. I thought it was about the SERVICE MEMBER'S SERVICE and the fact of that service which brought the mother worry, pain or grief which made any mother of a US servicemember eligible and made the "American Gold Star Mothers" an organization we could all admire and feel sympathy for.

NOW the mothers think they should become exclusionary.

Will SOMEBODY give these broads a clue???

I got NO sympathy for a group that does something this crappy.

It's like the people from Nazareth saying, 'only people from Nazareth can call themselves Christians.'

Woman Drops Bid to Become Gold Star Mother

Mon May 30, 9:34 AM ET

A Yonkers woman has dropped her bid to become a Gold Star Mother. Ligaya Lagman was denied acceptance by the organization of mothers who have lost sons and daughter in combat because she is not a U.S. citizen.

Bob Foster of the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Eastchester tells the Journal News that Lagman is shaken up by all the attention she has gotten and she wants to stay on the sidelines. But she wants to see the rules changed so other mothers are not turned down like she was.

Lagman came to the United States from the Philippines in 1983. She is a permanent resident but not a citizen. Foster says she is busy caring for her husband, who is seriously ill. Lagman's son, Anthony, was killed in a firefight in Afghanistan last year at age 26.

Veterans and politicians, among others, called for American Gold Star Mothers to change its policy to allow noncitizen mothers of fallen soldiers into the organization, after reports that Lagman had been excluded from the group.

The Gold Star's national monument is being built in Putnam County

http://www.goldstarmoms.com/who.htm

Who are the American Gold Star Mothers?

We Are Mothers

The membership of American Gold Star Mothers, Inc. is composed of American Mothers who lost a son or daughter during World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Beirut, Grenada, Panama, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, Bosnia, Saudi Arabia, all Strategic Areas, or while in service to our country. Click here to see information on our National President, and our National Board.

The organization was founded nationally shortly after the First World War by Mrs. Grace Darling Seibold, Washington, DC, for the purpose of perpetuating the ideals of Americanism for which their children had so gallantly fought and died.

American Gold Star Mothers, Inc. a federally-chartered organization, is a member of the National Veterans Affairs Voluntary Service Advisory Committee. The 150 chapters of Gold Star Mothers throughout the United States give many hours of work and personal service in hospitals for the veterans, and to the veteran and his family. The organization works closely with and is respected by all veterans organizations. The American Gold Star Mothers, Inc., a non-profit, patriotic organization, receives funds from dues and donations only.

They hide behind the wording of what I guess is their charter, "AMERICAN MOTHERS."

Well, if they call themselves a PATRIOTIC organization, I ask THE MOTHERS, "what greater patriotism is there than a first generation son or daughter of a (legal) permanent US resident who volunteers to serve his or her country and is killed in the line of duty?"

You MOTHERS need to re-think the wording of your charter. I GUARANTEE you this thing is not going to bring you anything but shame and discredit.

[Eynstyn]

Maybe you want to send this email to them like I did.

[email protected]

Dear Gold Star Mothers,

Re: Your decision to exclude Ms. Ligaya Lagman.

I believe if you think about it you'll see that excluding Ms. Lagman is an unfortunate choice. The media has found the story. Please re-think what your organization is and SHOULD be. I advise you to do it quickly before your group is thoroughly embarrassed.

[PacHead]

The organisation is comprised of American mothers. The broad is not American, therefore she should find another organisation to join.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by PacHead

The organisation is comprised of American mothers. The broad is not American, therefore she should find another organisation to join.

I think YOU are an American mutha if you really think she should be excluded.

I don't care what the words say in the by-laws. Just think about what their exclusion actually means to the intent of the founders and a majority (I would bet) of the members.

You just watch they are gonna change it!

If you don't believe it I'll bet you a free pass on ANY stupid thing you say from now on.

If they DON'T change the by laws then you have to add these words to your sig:

"I always yield to Eynstyn's genious."

Bet?

Or are ya chicken, Pac Man?

[bubblewrap]

I personally think they should change their by-laws.
Her son gave his life. It's the LEAST they could do.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Eynstyn

I don't care what the words say in the by-laws. Just think about what their exclusion actually means to the intent of the founders and a majority (I would bet) of the members.

You mean the founders who named the organization and wrote the bylaws? I doubt they would have specified "American mothers" if they actually intended for the organization to be comprised of multi-national women.

But that's not the only verbiage that excludes foreigners.

This is a group of American women who, among other things, "inculcate lessons of patriotism and love of country in the communities in which we live", "maintain true allegiance to the United States of America", and "inspire respect for the Stars and Stripes in the youth of America".

While I appreciate this foreign woman's son's sacrifice, I don't see how inducting foreign citizens into the group advances those objectives. If she so desperately wants to be a member of this group, perhaps she should consider applying for and obtaining US citizenship.

I don't agree with the group's stance, or their refusal to consider changing their bylaws. But they are a private group, and I have to respect that. I'm sure there are thousands of groups and organizations who have bylaws that I disagree with, but that's really none of my business unless it's funded by me, the taxpayer.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by bubblewrap

I personally think they should change their by-laws.
Her son gave his life. It's the LEAST they could do.

[PacHead]

Let her become an American citizen, if she wants to join the group, simple as that.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

You mean the founders who named the organization and wrote the bylaws? I doubt they would have specified "American mothers" if they actually intended for the organization to be comprised of multi-national women.

No, they just never THOUGHT about the impact of there verbage. Like why the Catholics permitted eating meat on fridays because it reflected necessary changes for the times. Just like the Constitution is ammended their by laws need to be ammended.

The idea is NOT about American mothers of dead US servicemembers it's about MOTHERS of American service members who died for their country, the USA.

Go back to outer space if you think this is wrong.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Let her become an American citizen, if she wants to join the group, simple as that.

She is a legal resident. Her son was qualified to join and serve the US in uniform. He died in patriotic service to this country.

She is the mother of a DEAD SERVICEMAN! HE DIED IN COMBAT! FOR YOU!!!

If she aint deserving then we should deny these young men and women the right to serve! How about that, huh?

Hell, if I was one of these guys and I knew my mom wouldn't be welcomed for my sacrifice, Id be DAMNED if I raised my hand for this ungrateful nation full of jerks like you.



You are wrong.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by Eynstyn

She is a legal resident. Her son was qualified to join and serve the US in uniform. He died in patriotic service to this country.

She is the mother of a DEAD SERVICEMAN! HE DIED IN COMBAT! FOR YOU!!!

If she aint deserving then we should deny these young men and women the right to serve! How about that, huh?

Hell, if I was one of these guys and I knew my mom wouldn't be welcomed for my sacrifice, Id be DAMNED if I raised my hand for this ungrateful nation full of jerks like you.



You are wrong.

Why do YOU give them a tax break? Last I heard, racist groups can get tax breaks even if they are prejudiced because certain members of Congress insist. and YOU support them. sam

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Eynstyn

She is a legal resident. Her son was qualified to join and serve the US in uniform. He died in patriotic service to this country.

She is the mother of a DEAD SERVICEMAN! HE DIED IN COMBAT! FOR YOU!!!

If she aint deserving then we should deny these young men and women the right to serve! How about that, huh?

Hell, if I was one of these guys and I knew my mom wouldn't be welcomed for my sacrifice, Id be DAMNED if I raised my hand for this ungrateful nation full of jerks like you.



You are wrong.

A legal resident does not qualify somebody as American. If she were an American citizen, she would meet the qualifications to be called an American. You may call her what you please, but calling her American is simply not true and false.

There's some Greek, private, members only social club near by where I live. Guess what, I'm not Greek, I cannot join.

And no foreigners or people with dual citizenship crap (dual loyalties) should be allowed in the US military.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by SVass

Why do YOU give them a tax break? Last I heard, racist groups can get tax breaks even if they are prejudiced because certain members of Congress insist. and YOU support them. sam

I cant believe they wont see how stupid they are. They will HAVE to change their rules. I sent them and email an I sent another email to the NBC station. You just watch and wait and listen.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by PacHead

A legal resident does not qualify somebody as American. If she were an American citizen, she would meet the qualifications to be called an American. You may call her what you please, but calling her American is simply not true and false.

There's some Greek, private, members only social club near by where I live. Guess what, I'm not Greek, I cannot join.

And no foreigners or people with dual citizenship crap (dual loyalties) should be allowed in the US military.

Ok mister patriot! Just don't try to change sides later on when you are proved WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet you wish you were greek because you know what they like. Moosaki!

And I bet Moosaki is right up your alley.

[docbud]

I don't think the founders thought of a situation such as this when they made their bylaws.

Hopefully they will amend them.

Just as the American Legion changed their rules from "war" to armed conflict. I served in the Air Force for 8 years in (80-88), and when I tried to join the Legion, I was told that I was not a veteran. I was--but not according to their rules (I served, but not during war). A few years later they added Grenada and stuff, and a few other places. (and I ended up qualifying, but by just a few months).

But at the time I admit I was ticked off. I mean, I served 8 years, and though I didn't see combat, I still considered myself a veteran (and I still do). I served. I was told my service didn't count for diddly. Lots of peacetime vets were ticked off when they were told the same thing.

I can see not being able to join the Veterans of Foreign Wars, but I couldn't join the American Legion?

They changed their rules (though more out of necessity since all the old geezers are dropping dead), and the goldstar moms should change theirs as well. Times have changed since their bylaws.

{edit: But I also understood at the time that they were only following the rules that were in place}
doc

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Eynstyn

Ok mister patriot! Just don't try to change sides later on when you are proved WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet you wish you were greek because you know what they like. Moosaki!

And I bet Moosaki is right up your alley.

I don't wish I were Greek, I'm content with what I am, though I do enjoy an occasional gyro.

I also cannot be proved wrong in this case, because there is nothing to be proven wrong about. My opinion is that she should become an American citizen if she wants to belong to that group. Regardless of the outcome in this particular case, my opinion stands.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by docbud

I don't think the founders thought of a situation such as this when they made their bylaws.

Hopefully they will amend them.

Just as the Amercian Legion changed their rules from "war" to armed conflict. I served in the Air Force for 8 years in (80-88), and when I tried to join the Legion, I was told that I was not a veteran. I was--but not according to their rules (I served, but not during war). A few years later they added Grenada and and stuff, and a few other places. (and I ended up qualifying, but by just a few months).

But at the time I admit I was ticked off. I mean, I served 8 years, and though I didn't see combat, I still considered myself a veteran (and I still do). I served. I was told my service didn't count for diddly. Lots of peacetime vets were ticked off when they were told the same thing.

I can see not being able to join the Veterans of Foreign Wars, but I couldn't join the American Legion?

They changed their rules (though more out of necessity since all the old geezers are dropping dead), and the goldstar moms should change theirs as well. Times have changed since their bylaws.

{edit: But I also understood at the time that they were only following the rules that were in place}
doc

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by PacHead

I don't wish I were Greek, I'm content with what I am, though I do enjoy an occasional gyro.

I also cannot be proved wrong in this case, because there is nothing to be proven wrong about. My opinion is that she should become an American citizen if she wants to belong to that group. Regardless of the outcome in this particular case, my opinion stands.

[docbud]

thanks Eynstyn

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by docbud

thanks Eynstyn

You sound like a clear thinking American patriot! These other guys sound like liberal punks to me!

Dont you doubt that we are right and will be vindicated before long.

But I gotta warn ya, this don't get you a blank check with me. When your right I'll tell ya. When your wrong, I'll tell ya. If you sound like an idiot, God help you!

[Eynstyn]

Double Post

[docbud]

I can live with that

(and it goes both ways}

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by docbud

I can live with that

See, sam? I'm a pretty decent guy as long as you act like a sensible human being!

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Eynstyn

No, they just never THOUGHT about the impact of there verbage. ..

The idea is NOT about American mothers of dead US servicemembers it's about MOTHERS of American service members who died for their country, the USA.

Go back to outer space if you think this is wrong.

This group promotes patriotism, maintains "true allegiance" to the United States of America, and "inspires respect" for the Stars and Stripes in the youth of America.

Now how exactly does a foreign citizen help accomplish those objectives?

She may meet the qualification of having lost a son who served in the US military, but her non-citizen status makes it quite difficult for her to promote patriotism and show true allegiance to the USA.

If she won't become a citizen, perhaps she can form her own group for mothers of fallen soldiers. Because outside of the one qualification she meets, the goals of the group are not consistent with her citizen status.

Again... crappy bylaws by what I would consider to be a cool, mothers-of-deceased-soldiers group. But as a private group it's their right.

[brapper]

Originally Posted by PacHead

The organisation is comprised of American mothers. The broad is not American, therefore she should find another organisation to join.

Yeah you're right, there's no way that her son dying for the country is enough to earn her a little respect.

[spacefreak]

sorry... dp

[Cody Dawg]

The organisation is comprised of American mothers. The broad is not American, therefore she should find another organisation to join.

Pachead, thank you for that oh-so-clear point.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

This group promotes patriotism, maintains "true allegiance" to the United States of America, and "inspires respect" for the Stars and Stripes in the youth of America.

Now how exactly does a foreign citizen help accomplish those objectives?

How does it harm anything? Is she gonna get her son to faithfully serve the US mission and die so she can infiltrate their ranks and make subversive quilts or something???

She may meet the qualification of having lost a son who served in the US military, but her non-citizen status makes it quite difficult for her to promote patriotism and show true allegiance to the USA.

If she won't become a citizen, perhaps she can form her own group for mothers of fallen soldiers. Because outside of the one qualification she meets, the goals of the group are not consistent with her citizen status.

Again... crappy bylaws by what I would consider to be a cool, mothers-of-deceased-soldiers group. But as a private group it's their right.

My friends mom is Purto Rican or something and she's lived in miami for 20+ years and never learned english and will never become a citizen but she loves this country and was proud that her son joined the military.

If they want to LOSE members then they should just shine on this whole thing and keep on doin what they are doin. If they want to GAIN membership (of people who will pay dues and every thing) they will change their rules.

I will forever think their group is teh shizz-its if they dont ease up on that poor woman!

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by brapper

Yeah you're right, there's no way that her son dying for the country is enough to earn her a little respect.

I'm beginning to feel this macnn has some clear thinkers after all!

They aint ALL spacy pac heads!

Or maybe these guys just hate anybody that aint american. Cant say I blame em entirely, but she lived here for many years and has her green card and the son served and died. What more does she have to do to earn your (space-pac) APPROVAL? Hum the star spangled banner while pleasing you???

[Zimphire]

Frankly the way this panned out, I wouldn't want to be a part of such group.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Frankly the way this panned out, I wouldn't want to be a part of such group.

The members cant all approve of this crap. Somebody will do something. This has got to be the WORST PR they could EVER get.

For a group of mothers of dead soldiers to lose the sympathy of the American public while troops are being lost every day??? How much worse could it get?

[brapper]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Frankly the way this panned out, I wouldn't want to be a part of such group.

seconded.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by brapper

Yeah you're right, there's no way that her son dying for the country is enough to earn her a little respect.

respect, yes. Membership, not neccessarily.

Eynstyn, so you're against the rights of this group to select the membership they want? You want to force them to take her as a member, despite the fact that she isn't an American?


MAke no mistake, I think it sucks. However, it's their right to choose their members.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Eynstyn

The members cant all approve of this crap. Somebody will do something. This has got to be the WORST PR they could EVER get.

For a group of mothers of dead soldiers to lose the sympathy of the American public while troops are being lost every day??? How much worse could it get?

you're making a tempest in a teapot. The vast, vast, majority of people have never heard of this incident, and of those who have, 99% will forget about it in a week.

[Eynstyn]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

you're making a tempest in a teapot. The vast, vast, majority of people have never heard of this incident, and of those who have, 99% will forget about it in a week.

Your suggestion reminds me of the advice in the serenity prayer.

The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Here's one for you.

The MacNStein Prayer

God grant me the ability to calm Eynstyn down because in a
week the vast, vast numbers of people who have
never heard of this incident will be less likely to
have done so by then and of those who have, 99% will forget
about it by then. God, if I can shut Eynstyn up we'll all be able
to forget this thing ever occurred. And all that will be left is a
Philipino mother left to mourn in solitude, the memory of her
dead son and the thanks of a grateful nation.

And God, if anyone gets upset about THAT after a week goes
by I'll pray again.

Amen.