[Salty]

OK, so I downloaded the trial of Illustrator CS2, I've been planning on buying CS3 when it comes out with my student discount. But honestly I gotta say, coming from primarily ever using FreeHand 9... there's some features of Illustrator that are really awesome, but the fundamental DRAWING part is driving me crazy! I don't understand why I have to make sure I deselect any lines before I start drawing a new one in close proximity otherwise it will just randomly delete my previous line!
As well there seems to be no rhyme or reason to how you select things, or deselect things. In any other app I've been in you hold shift if you want to deselect something that's already selected while maintaining the rest of your selections. Apparently Illustrator doesn't think this makes much sense (but Photoshop does!?) As well trying to select multiple items and then actually MOVE them is a freaking pain... and... how is it that this is the leading vector app when it seems like even Fireworks handles basic things like selecting better?

Like... I don't think I'm missing anything, but it feels as if Illustrator just takes too long to do anything good in for no reason, FreeHand seemed so much more intuitive. And why on earth can't I just hold alt and drag out a handle!?

[chris v]

If you have multiple items selected, and you shift-click on one of them, you'll de-select it. If it's not selected, and you shift-click it, you'll add it to the selection. Try the rubber-band (area) select. Use the direct-select tool to move vector points.

Moving things -- click and drag not working for you? You get an indicator next to the cursor when you're directly over a path, which may help if you look for that. Also, use the arrow keys to move stuff. You can set the increment in prefs. Shift+arrowkeys = 10 X increment.

Oh, and RTFM. (or help menu, as it were, if it's the trial version.) It's pretty complete.

Illustrator is not Freehand. Adobe has interface consistency guidelines, which are pretty largely intact between Illy & Photoshop (not so much GoLive & InDesign) & make sense with the Apple paradigm as well, (preferences are command+k, though, which annoys me) once you learn what they are. Freehand sort of made it all up as they went along.

Edit: Check in Prefs>General & see if you have Object Selection by path only checked. You might uncheck that if it is, so you gan select an object by clicking anywhere within it. (mostly for closed paths, like elipses, rectangles, etc.)

[Kevin]

I have to admit, I learned Photoshop alot faster and easier than Illustrator.

I had to put more time into it.

[MaxPower2k3]

yeah, i've been trying to figure out illustrator and it's definitely taking longer than photoshop or indesign. i'm getting the hang of it, but i run into some of the same problems as Salty (specifically the deleting previous paths while drawing one... if i want to draw something in illustrator, i end up sketching it in photoshop, opening that in illustrator, and then livetracing it to convert it to a path.) there must be a way around that, but i haven't figured it out yet.

[paul w]

It's like chris said (rtfm already).

If you draw with the brush or the pencil you can deselect the keep selected option, as well as the edit selected paths (may be the culprit). Double click on the tool in the palette for the options.

Otherwise what's hard about shift+ click, shift + click, drag? It's just like in Photoshop...

Illustrator is not Freehand, so you'll have to adjust, but once you do you'll be fine.

[davesimondotcom]

You know, take your complaints and basically replace "Illustrator" with "Flash" and I know exactly how you feel.

It drives me nuts how it always creates a stroke on objects, etc. On top of other really basic interface complaints I have.

I'm hoping CS3 will give Flash a more "Adobe" interface.

[Salty]

OK the select path thing in preferences helped a LOT, so far. Makes more sense now. That's a pretty annoying thing to have as a default action. I don't mean to say that I don't understand how vector apps work, I do some of my best stuff with vectors, I'm just saying that Illustrator seems to have a lot of annoying quirks that really don't make much sense. It seems as if they add in some extra steps. And I don't know if it was simply because of that other option but holding shift when clicking on another path that was already selected was deselecting all my paths, it was bloody annoying!
(As you can see from my sig and blog it's not as if I'm clueless when it comes to using higher end software)

[Salty]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

You know, take your complaints and basically replace "Illustrator" with "Flash" and I know exactly how you feel.

It drives me nuts how it always creates a stroke on objects, etc. On top of other really basic interface complaints I have.

I'm hoping CS3 will give Flash a more "Adobe" interface.

I agree, Macromedia's interfaces after version 4 of Fireworks and Dreamweaver (right about the time we got native OS X apps) started going down hardcore! Fireworks 3 was an amazing app, and still quick even on a 333Mhz iMac! Now the higher end effects have gotten quicker but on a much higher end 1Ghz PowerBook it feels slower than it used to on my iMac sometimes! I honestly don't understand how software can get so bloody bloated! And yah Flash has ALWAYS been an interface nightmare. I mean you can do some cool/annoying stuff with it, but that's an app that seriously takes forever to do anything you'd want to do with it.
And in my opinion they really should have created a way to allow you to do some cool stuff you can do in the app with templates or wizards. What do I mean? The same was Fireworks lets you make pop up menus (though not great ones) let Flash give you a basic template and generate the action script and objects to create an audio player (like every band has on their site that takes forever to design!) or a text box that will draw on files in an outside folder, stuff like that.

[chris v]

Use the keys to select tools, and you'll work tons faster. Just get used to de-selecting an object before you draw another.

1. Draw a line.
2. Type 'v' (select tool) click in space.
3. Type 'p' draw another line.
4. ????
5. Profit!

Once you learn all the toolbar shortcuts, you'll fly through stuff.

[greenamp]

Salty, are you talking about using the pencil tool? If so, you have to change it's default settings to make it handle like natural drawing. Double click the pencil tool and deselect both check boxes. That should do the trick for ya.

Edit: the gurus beat me to it.

[Salty]

I always use hot keys, V for selector, A for... uhh white selector? P for pen, B for brush... I almost never use the pencil tool, what's the difference between it and the brush?

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Salty

I always use hot keys, V for selector, A for... uhh white selector? P for pen, B for brush... I almost never use the pencil tool, what's the difference between it and the brush?

Heh nothing really now that you mention it. The pencil is basically a brush sans the customization.

[Salty]

That's what I thought.

[::maroma::]

God I hope they totally revamp Illustrator for CS3. Ever since version 8 Illustrator has been on a downward slope of crappiness. Its gotten tons more bugs, way slower, and doesn't share some of the same keyboard shortcuts as Photoshop and InDesign. Adobe is taking thier sweet ass time with CS3 so it best be good! (or else!)

[olePigeon]

The Pencil draws paths freeform. The Pen draws paths via Bezier curves. The Paintbrush applies a preselected effect to a path as you draw it. You can use a Pencil or Pen to draw the path first, then apply the effect.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by chris v

1. Draw a line.
2. Type 'v' (select tool) click in space.
3. Type 'p' draw another line.
4. ????

I have had dreams like that.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I have had dreams like that.

I have edited vector nodes on the inside of my eyelids trying to get to sleep.

[davesimondotcom]

I did a project probably two years ago where I was silhouetting photographs day after day for about three weeks.

I'd go home and in my mind be tracing the edges of my dinner, etc.

It's like Tetris. It gets in your head.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by chris v

I have edited vector nodes on the inside of my eyelids trying to get to sleep.

You aren't the only one.

[Salty]

I once had a meeting with a guy that had a weird monogram on his shirt breast. Of course the guy was a bit of an ass and wasn't listening to a word I said, so eventually I just stared at the emblem figuring out how I'd trace those lines, how I'd layer the object etc haha.

[Kevin]

Wait till you start naming fonts off menus.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Wait till you start naming fonts off menus.

Haha, I don't do much stuff with type, therefore I don't think that'll happen... but I'd be sad if it did. I do often see album covers and start listing off the things they did in Photoshop.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Wait till you start naming fonts off menus.

I do this driving down the street. After a while, you don't even see the signs, you just think "Now there's a good use of a compressed sans-serif face!" One day, I'm gonna do that with a stop sign and kill myself.

[Kevin]

I have fonts that have been SQUISHED too much. Either vertical or horizontal.

There is a fine line there. Too much and it looks tacky.

The people who do the generic billboards around here are HORRIBLE about this.

I also hereby declare this thread of the week.

[chris v]

Here's a question: Why does every upscale kid's clothing boutique in the entire US have to use Remedy in their signage??

AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON PAPYRUS!

/fontsnob

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Wait till you start naming fonts off menus.

just yesterday i looked at an amazon.com gift certificate and thought "oh, they use Skia"

[- - e r i k - -]

How about the women's magazines and their use of Sand?

[Salty]

I always notice Sand.

[PurpleGiant]

Originally Posted by chris v

Here's a question: Why does every upscale kid's clothing boutique in the entire US have to use Remedy in their signage??

AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON PAPYRUS!

/fontsnob

I like Papyrus

[- - e r i k - -]

Papyrus is a fine font, but overused as f*ck. Sand is a crap font and still overused. Go figure. I won't even mention Comic Sans.

<- Fontsnob with currently 20 000+ fonts installed.

[Salty]

See I can't deal with that many fonts, I always forget what they look like!

[greenamp]

Every time I drive on the interstate, I spend a bit of quiet time in admiration of Blue Highway.

And I agree, Papyrus sucks hard these days from over use. It's one of those fonts that really needs lots of kerning TLC or else it looks like total shat. Bank Gothic is getting on my nerves lately too. I swear every local news channel here in Nashville uses it... for everything.

[- - e r i k - -]

Coincidentally Bank Gothic is one of my favorite fonts too, it's a good readable screenfont for video which may explain it's overuse in broadcast.

[OwlBoy]

Illustrator is fun!



-Owl

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Poor man's Helvetica

Exactly. And a much, much uglier-looking one, at that!

Edit: Okay, what the hell just happened there? I just quick-replied three times—each time, it told me that an error had occurred in the page, etc., and when I reloaded the page, my reply wasn’t at the bottom. After the third time, I realised why: it was somewhere up in the middle of the thread, before both my own last post and the post I was replying to (Erik’s). Did I just enter a time machine or something?

For the record: this post was written and posted about an hour and five minutes after it claims to have been posted. The original sequence was as follows:

1. Salty: “Everyone should just stick to Arial.”
2. Oisín: “No. No, no, no, no, no. Arial = horrible.”
3. - - e r i k - -: “Poor man’s Helvetica.”
4. Oisín: “Exactly. And a much, much uglier-looking one, at that!”

Posts no. two and three in that list seem to have been deleted, somehow—and, as explained above, post no. four (this one) inexplicably landed itself smack in the middle of everything...

[Salty]

Everyone should just stick to Arial.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Poor man's Helvetica

(Just checking to see if a post composed in the actual post-composer [as opposed to the quick-reply-post-composer] gets moved back about an hour as well...)

Edit: Nope, guess not... but where the hell did Erik’s post now go?!?!?

Edit again: Oh, I guess it still does the weirdo-thingie after all, only Salty’s reply was over an hour ago, and my post comes after his anyway, now.

Now the question is just where Erik’s post went, and why the thread listing still claims he replied at 12:47, when his post isn’t here anymore... And my post (which Erik was replying to) isn’t here, either! This thread is haunted.

[Salty]

I never liked Helvetica.

That said I should draw something cute in illustrator. I haven't drawn in vectors in forever!

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Salty

Everyone should just stick to Arial.

No. No, no, no, no, NO.

Arial = horrible.

[- - e r i k - -]

Poor man's Helvetica

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by chris v

Here's a question: Why does every upscale kid's clothing boutique in the entire US have to use Remedy in their signage??

AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON PAPYRUS!

/fontsnob

My brother!

Papyrus is the most overused font around here. For some reason, people think it's "rustic" and use it all over the place.

I did a really great layout for an ad template for a realtor client that used Houston Pen. The handwriting was perfect for the feel.

They took the template (they were just supposed to fill in pics and info on homes) and changed the majority of the text into Papyrus.

Their explanation: It looks more "rustic." BLECH!

Friends don't let ANYONE use Papyrus.

[olePigeon]

I only enjoy Papyrus because it's used in the Serenity logo.

SHUT IT! It's perfect. Everything else that uses Papyrus is overused.

[chris v]

That's just it -- in and of itself, it's not a bad font. The problem is, every single designer in the world all fell in love with it on the same day of the week, and now it's EVERYWHERE!. I'll admit to using it in a couple of designs back in about 1999.

[greenamp]

I actually think it was the non designers who befouled papyrus. It's one of the fonts that attract people to use it in designs with no concept, hoping a rustic, "cool" font will somehow create one out of thin air. I even see it used all the time in body copy. Yikes.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by greenamp

I actually think it was the non designers who befouled papyrus. It's one of the fonts that attract people to use it in designs with no concept, hoping a rustic, "cool" font will somehow create one out of thin air. I even see it used all the time in body copy. Yikes.

I belong to a re-mailer list, where people variously send messages in sand, papyrus, times-set-too-small-for-the-naked-eye & comic sans. Cavers aren't known for their design sense, though.

[olePigeon]

Who was it that had the boss with the "Too much white space, fill it in and make it red."

[Salty]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Who was it that had the boss with the "Too much white space, fill it in and make it red."

That was... believe the SN is Mrs. Larry

[- - e r i k - -]

Crikey. I dug this thread up to post an answer to Salty's original qualms about FreeHand (see Salty, never tell me I didn't look out for you!) and here I find a bunch of replies that totally went over my head in some crazy timeloop thingy.

Oh well, here you go Salty:
Migrating from FreeHand to Illustrator

[- - e r i k - -]

At least that post was put in it's right place.

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

God I hope they totally revamp Illustrator for CS3. Ever since version 8 Illustrator has been on a downward slope of crappiness. Its gotten tons more bugs, way slower, and doesn't share some of the same keyboard shortcuts as Photoshop and InDesign. Adobe is taking thier sweet ass time with CS3 so it best be good! (or else!)

Illustrator CS2 works well for me [a little sluggish]. IMHO, it's back to where 8 was for the most part.

REgarding Adobe "taking their sweet ass time with CS3" that's just false. They are taking their standard time with CS3. CS was released in October of 2003... CS2 was released in April of 2005.

Oct. 2006 would be normal for CS3... and they are indicating CS3 will be relased in early 2007... so they may be a few months over their norm.