[Peder Rice]

I have always understood Heaven to be a place of enlightenment. When we die, we enter the gates of Heaven and enter immortality, our pain and suffering gone, the answers to all of our questions provided instantly. As time is infinite, personal growth and expression become zero.

And then there's Hell. Live inhumanely and you will endure torture for eternity, with no change of scenery, no personal growth or expression.

And finally, life without an afterlife. You are dead, without thought, personal growth or expression, for eternity. Nothing changes. You are dead. Infinitely,

So is there any difference among the three? Is there any point to an afterlife?

[Landos Mustache]

Bragging rights.

[Zeeb]

There are other choices. Some believe that when you die so do all your memories but an "essence" of you joins with and affects a larger "oversoul". Kinda new-agey.

Barring that, I agree that bragging rights would be the primary benefit.

[Landos Mustache]

Reincarnation doesn't make any sense to me. If you lose all your memories how are you reborn? Does your "essence" being carried on mean you just like ice-creme and hate brussel sprouts?

[evfish84]

Well, if you're a Muslim, heaven's a like a drunken sorority party, except the women aren’t sluts that have slept with everyone on campus.

[Y3a]

Originally Posted by evfish84

Well, if you're a Muslim, heaven's a like a drunken sorority party, except the women aren’t sluts that have slept with everyone on campus.

But they all have hairy backs and weight 300 lbs and have ugly faces.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Y3a

But they all have hairy backs and weight 300 lbs and have ugly faces.

No, I heard its different from where you went to college.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by evfish84

Well, if you're a Muslim, heaven's a like a drunken sorority party, except the women aren’t sluts that have slept with everyone on campus.

Excellent job making unsubstantiated claims against the Greek system.

I don't think in Heaven that time is infinite, as much as time doesn't exist.

[Y3a]

Originally Posted by Dakar

No, I heard its different from where you went to college.

Musta heard wrong. We had lots of beauties there.

[BlueSky]

From here it looks like an afterlife, when actually it's your natural state. Being in a body is a momentary stopover in the big picture, and is undertaken for growth, learning, and all that shît because it's easier to express with and through a body, and learning can be much faster.

The Christian religion in particular (AFAIK) is very attached to the body. Jesus will lift those believers up into the air when he returns and later on will bring 'em all back down to Earth in order to create a billion years of Jesus freaks or something.

There's also something about the dead being ressurected from their graves when he comes, isn't there? Body body body, and barely a trace of true spirituality anywhere.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Y3a

But they all have hairy backs and weight 300 lbs and have ugly faces.

I dated a Palestinian. He was hoooooooooot. All the girls were ga ga for him.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

From here it looks like an afterlife, when actually it's your natural state. Being in a body is a momentary stopover in the big picture, and is undertaken for growth, learning, and all that shît because it's easier to express with and through a body, and learning can be much faster.

The Christian religion in particular (AFAIK) is very attached to the body. Jesus will lift those believers up into the air when he returns and later on will bring 'em all back down to Earth in order to create a billion years of Jesus freaks or something.

There's also something about the dead being ressurected from their graves when he comes, isn't there? Body body body, and barely a trace of true spirituality anywhere.

No, Jesus will not cause rotted carcasses to come out of the ground. And do you think that when Christians are 'raised up' we'll physically stand on the clouds or something? Of course not, it's all very spiritual.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Reincarnation doesn't make any sense to me. If you lose all your memories how are you reborn? Does your "essence" being carried on mean you just like ice-creme and hate brussel sprouts?

Most people who believe in reincarnation don't seem to think your memories die as much as get deeply suppressed.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

No, Jesus will not cause rotted carcasses to come out of the ground. And do you think that when Christians are 'raised up' we'll physically stand on the clouds or something? Of course not, it's all very spiritual.

What is "spiritual"?

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Reincarnation doesn't make any sense to me. If you lose all your memories how are you reborn? Does your "essence" being carried on mean you just like ice-creme and hate brussel sprouts?

Not necessarily reincarnation and I didn't say the idea was you would be reborn. But yeah, your "consciousness" is over but the patterns you learned--sans memories-- rejoins a larger "oversoul". For example the instinct to like ice cream would still be intact but you would have no memory of ever eating it.

I'm getting my hippy beads now.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Not necessarily reincarnation and I didn't say the idea was you would be reborn. But yeah, your "consciousness" is over but the patterns you learned--sans memories-- rejoins a larger "oversoul". For example the instinct to like ice cream would still be intact but you would have no memory of ever eating it.

I'm getting my hippy beads now.

That is rather bla.

Does it also mean a certain number of lives were created in the beginning and these same ones are living over and over?

If so why do we have such stupid people today?

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

What is "spiritual"?

You tell me, you used it first.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

You tell me, you used it first.

The reason I ask is not to belabor the definition of the word, it's just that every account of the "Rapture" I've ever heard describes millions of people (believers) disappearing in an instant (and taken up into the air). They never say millions of people drop dead on the spot while their spirit goes with Jesus, leaving behind quite a mess for the public health department. It would seem to indicate that these Rapture believers actually believe that the body will be taken away in an instant.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

That is rather bla.

Does it also mean a certain number of lives were created in the beginning and these same ones are living over and over?

If so why do we have such stupid people today?

No, that's what YOU said. It seems that you have your own ideas that seep out when you respond to others.

So, why don't you state what *you* believe so that we can all be in awe of your superior intellect?

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

No, that's what YOU said. It seems that you have your own ideas that seep out when you respond to others.

So, why don't you state what *you* believe so that we can all be in awe of your superior intellect?

Actually I was ASKING if this is what is going on.

Idiot

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Y3a

Musta heard wrong. We had lots of beauties there.

The 'heard' was in reference to heaven, not your college.

[RAILhead]

If there's a God that can summon all His people to Him, don't you think He could "vanish" the bodies, too?

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Actually I was ASKING if this is what is going on.

Idiot

Once again, what do you believe? Or would you rather not say?

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Once again, what do you believe? Or would you rather not say?

Not sure really. I am sure there is no heaven as it would get boring.

My guess is you either vaporize into nothingness or you exist as some form of energy in another dimension. But definitely not just doing whatever you like all the time and serving god nonsense.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Not sure really. I am sure there is no heaven as it would get boring.

My guess is you either vaporize into nothingness or you exist as some form of energy in another dimension. But definitely not just doing whatever you like all the time and serving god nonsense.

You could be right, I don't know--but in any case it doesn't sound like your beliefs are based on anything substantial either. I'm curious though, why do you spend so much energy on religious discussions when you seem to have such an aversion to spirituality? I'm not attacking, just asking.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Not sure really. I am sure there is no heaven as it would get boring.

Now, if a conclusion doesn't follow from its premises, the argument is said to be invalid and no reliable judgement can be made about whether the conclusion is true, regardless of whether or not the premises are true.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

You could be right, I don't know--but in any case it doesn't sound like your beliefs are based on anything substantial either. I'm curious though, why do you spend so much energy on religious discussions when you seem to have such an aversion to spirituality? I'm not attacking, just asking.

I have never said I have a problem with spirituality. Never, not once.

Also why do my believes have to be built on something substantial? Nobody has any more proof of the afterlife then I do. Why do I have to follow a common believe before it becomes substantial?

[Kevin]

Hey look, it's another MacNN religion thread.

And hey look, SWG has already made a handful of hateful comments.

Someone is obsessed.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Hey look, it's another MacNN religion thread.

And hey look, SWG has already made a handful of hateful comments.

Someone is obsessed.

you think?

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all things must come to pass

[Kevin]

That wasn't so much a religious statement, as a statement about what is going on is the world today.

When you see me going around making hateful comments constantly about a religious group, then you may have a point.

Me being a Christian doesn't make me obsessed.

Count how many religious threads I have made. Dare ya.

[hey!_Zeus]

OBLIVIAN...sorry had caps lock on by mistake. Another black check mark in my 'book of life'.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

I dated a Palestinian. He was hoooooooooot. All the girls were ga ga for him.

I hear they're explosive in bed.

[Robert A.M. Stephens]

Originally Posted by evfish84

Well, if you're a Muslim, heaven's a like a drunken sorority party, except the women aren’t sluts that have slept with everyone on campus.

Awesome. So touching. Love it.

[Doofy]

Heaven: Breasts, pizza, Bud, breasts, pizza, Jeeps, breasts, Marshall stacks, daily viewings of the guy at Ibanez who canned maple fingerboards being tortured, breasts, pizza, cats. God occasionally nipping in for a bevy and to lay down some bass tracks (God gives good bass, much better than Billy Sheehan or Geddy Lee). Your version may differ, according to taste.

Hell: Small, hot room full of demons poking you up the tradesman's with steaming hot pokers and Paris Hilton continually singing her new song to you.

Oblivion: Small, hot room full of demons poking you up the tradesman's with steaming hot pokers, Paris Hilton continually singing her new song to you and the permanent feeling of "meh, was I wrong" at the back of your mind.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Count how many religious threads I have made. Dare ya.

You don't tend to start threads very much at all, to my recollection.

[goMac]

According to Christianity, Heaven is being one with god. Hell is not being one with god. Hell is supposed to be bad because you're supposed to be upset you're not with god. In other words, Hell isn't much different than Earth, except your friends that go to heaven get to hang out with god while you don't.

As a point of interest, Judaism does not have a hell of enternal damnation. The Jewish hell is more like a waiting room. Unless you were extremely bad, you can only stay for a max of 12 months, and which point your soul is shed of it's evil and brought to heaven. It's more like purgatory. In addition, all souls have to pass through this point before they go to heaven. They just stay longer depending on how bad they were.

The Jewish hell is what Jesus believed in. Hell was turned into a place of eternal damnation by later historical revisions in the church.

I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but as I'm not Jewish I don't know the finer points of this believe.

[lpkmckenna]

Frankly, I would choose to go to Hell.

In Dante's Inferno, the first circle of Hell is inhabited by the "virtuous pagans" like Ovid, Aristotle, and Homer. I'd rather spend eternity talking to Aristotle than listening to God brag about how clever he is.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

I'd rather spend eternity talking to Aristotle than listening to God brag about how clever he is.

Ooops. Methinks you've just sealed your fate. Eternity in a small room being poked up the backside by demons while having to watch telescreen broadcasts from Heaven in which God and Aristotle laugh their @ssess off at you and tell you how clever they are. During the middle eight of Paris' new single.

And no pizza.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Heaven: Breasts, pizza, Bud, breasts, pizza, Jeeps, breasts...

Hmmmmm, sounds familiar. I have the feeling I've been to this place…let me remember…I think it was called…COLLEGE! Right.

Ahhh, the memories (or should I say, mammaries).

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Frankly, I would choose to go to Hell.

Technically, it wouldn't be 'heaven' if it was boring.

Oh, and my guess is hell would be seeing Aristotle but not being allowed to talk to him (If that is what you desired).

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I hear they're explosive in bed.

HEEYOOOOOO

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I hear they're explosive in bed.

*rimshot*

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You don't tend to start threads very much at all, to my recollection.

Actually I do. They aren't usually negative however.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Heaven: Breasts, pizza, Bud, breasts, pizza, Jeeps, breasts,

Breasts and beer? Heaven is everything that is sinful on Earth?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Breasts and beer? Heaven is everything that is sinful on Earth?

Since when have breasts and beer been sinful? I must have missed a memo or something.

[Dakar]

gluttony & lust?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakar

gluttony & lust?

Internal to the user. Nowt to do with the items themselves.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Internal to the user. Nowt to do with the items themselves.

Look but don't touch, taste but don't swallow?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Look but don't touch, taste but don't swallow?

I saw that movie too!



BTW, boobs and beer aren't bad.

Obsessing about boobs and beer and making them the center of your life, bad.

[ebuddy]

It is my understanding that Hell (or sheol as it originates) is simply the lacking of the below and a separation of you from God and the things of God.

Depending on doctrine, but speaking as a Christian, heaven is both without dimensional limitation and is not like what we know of earth as you've heard before. A stream may sing to you or the wind may give you a word of direction, wisdom, answer questions, or tell a story. All matter might have a taste. You may be able to not only see colors like the color red, but feel the warmth of red or the nature of colors in general, all in ways we hadn't imagined. Personally, I love the thought of these things, but also simpler things like being able to lie down next to a panther, or run my fingers through the mane of a wild lion. Who knows though, it might not be as I imagine it.

We are not in form as we are today, but will be newly formed in spirit;

1Corinthians 15:51; "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed."

That heaven is many places;

John 14:2; "In my Father's house are many rooms..."

Many Christians believe that we will rule and reign with Jesus. That this life is a series of tests, "refining fires" if you will, for purposes beyond our wildest imaginations. For whatever reason, faith seems to be the most critical element of our being. We see a great expanse of space with many potential opportunities;

Revelation 22:5: "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign forever and ever."

2 Peter 3:13: "But we look for new heavens and a new earth according to His promise, in which righteousness is to abide."

Imagine a world where people are without bad manners? For example, you'll never be cut in line if there is even a line for anything. You'll never have to wait behind the two cars stopped in front of you while they carry a conversation, lock your doors to keep out criminals, etc... You'll be able to park your bike without having to lock it up. You won't have to worry about thugs whistling at your wife while you're walking with her. You won't have to worry about people bashing your ideals for the sake of elevating themselves. You won't have to worry about paranoia, pretense, and con-men. You won't have to worry about global warming, social security, corporate scandals, abortion rights, apartheid, politics, hurricanes, radical Islam, Israeli imperialism, money in general and all the ills that come of it, jealousy, hatred, and the like. Heaven could be a place of action, not discussion. It can be a productive place where everything that occurs is conducted in the interest of construction, teamwork, and unfettered creativity. It doesn't have to be boring at all.

In fact, those things we associate with "fun" here could be abandoned with nary a tear shed. Much like a child lamenting the loss of a ball only to forget about it entirely when he gets his hands on a yo-yo.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I saw that movie too!

I honestly wasn't planning that, but my gut response was so close I reworded it to match.

Originally Posted by Kevin

BTW, boobs and beer aren't bad.

Obsessing about boobs and beer and making them the center of your life, bad.

I understand my difference, but if that's what you're expecting in heaven, they've got to be pretty close to the center then, eh?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakar

I understand my difference, but if that's what you're expecting in heaven, they've got to be pretty close to the center then, eh?

If they're in the centre, that means you're not surrounded by them. Which would suck.

Oh, and everyone in Heaven would have a sense of humour.

And would probably spell "centre" correctly.