[BadKosh]

So, how well hidden was Barry's college records during the campaign?
More to teh point, what does the House/Senate/Supreme Court do about this? Impeach? Pack and leave as a non-president? Does that put Biden as President?


AP- WASHINGTON D.C. - In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama's qualifications for the presidency, the group Americans for Freedom of Information has Released copies of President Obama's college transcripts from Occidental College Released today, the transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school. The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California. The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship. This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama's detractors have been seeking.

Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya and there is no record of him ever applying for US citizenship, this is looking pretty grim. The news has created a firestorm at the White House as the release casts increasing doubt about Obama's legitimacy and qualification to serve as president. When reached for comment in London, where he has been in meetings with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Obama smiled but refused comment on the issue.

Britain 's Daily Mail also carried the story in a front-page article titled, Obama Eligibility Questioned leading some to speculate that the story may overshadow economic issues on Obama's first official visit to the U.K.

In a related matter, under growing pressure from several groups, Justice Antonin Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agreed on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning Obama's legal eligibility to serve as President in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of New Jersey . This lawsuit claims Obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. Donofrio's case is just one of 18 suits brought by citizens demanding proof of Obama's citizenship or qualification to serve as president.

Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama's campaign spending. This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still ongoing but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. Attorney General, Eric Holder. Mr. Holder has refused to comment on the matter.

[ghporter]

Isn't this Very Old News? Obama was born in Honolulu. His mother is from Kansas. Hawaii has been part of the US since the late 1800s. A person born on US territory, to at least one US citizen parent is a US citizen. Case closed.

Please note that his opponent in the election was born in Panama. On a US naval base, but IN Panama, and nobody even bothered to suggest that HE wasn't a citizen.

[SpaceMonkey]

Sorry: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/occidental.asp

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Please note that his opponent in the election was born in Panama. On a US naval base, but IN Panama, and nobody even bothered to suggest that HE wasn't a citizen.

Pretty sure that the Kenyan village that Barry was born in isn't inside a US military base or embassy.

[nonhuman]

Even if he were born in another country, wouldn't the fact that his mother was a US citizen mean that he is too automatically? That's certainly the case nowadays, though I suppose it might have been different back then. Also, it's possible to be a citizen of multiple countries at once.

Non issue.

[OreoCookie]

Didn't we have this discussion already? Ad nauseam?
And why won't this `story' just die? Tin foil hat shortage?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Even if he were born in another country, wouldn't the fact that his mother was a US citizen mean that he is too automatically?

In order to be able to become president, you have to be a natural born citizen, i. e. born on US territory. US bases count as US territory, for instance. As pointed out before, McCain was born in Panama, but on a US naval base. So he was allowed to run. Hypothetically, Madelaine Albright is not allowed to run for President, she was born in Prague and became a US citizen later on in life.

[Dork.]

Nothing to get upset about, the OP is simply exercising his 1st amendment rights....

[Dakar V]

Hope springs eternal.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

In order to be able to become president, you have to be a natural born citizen, i. e. born on US territory. US bases count as US territory, for instance.

This is an issue that has not been clarified by the courts. The Constitution doesn't make it clear exactly what "natural born" means, but it DOES include a stipulation that the potential president have been a US resident for at least 14 years. This means, to some anyway, that "natural born" citizenship is simply citizenship from birth as opposed to "naturalized" citizenship. Further, MANY military people serve AWAY from US facilities, and their children are just as much citizens as those born on US bases. I think it would be an interesting, if extremely ugly situation if a person who was a military brat who had been born "on the economy" ran for president. That might even be cause for a suit to get all the way to SCOTUS to clarify this stuff once and for all.

But the issue at hand is "Is Mr. Obama a US citizen from birth." The answer is yes, and the courts have thrown out all challenges to his qualifications based on this spurious argument. And I still don't believe any of the stuff about his "being born in Kenya." He has a Hawaiian birth certificate, and to have arranged this as a bit of subterfuge, it would have required some really serious official misconduct 48 years ago. For what? Who would have believed that someone of African heritage COULD run for president in 1961?

On the other hand, I'm offering a special on 100% recycled aluminum foil beanies. S&H extra, of course.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

For what? Who would have believed that someone of African heritage COULD run for president in 1961?

You forgot about Obama's time traveling powers.

[Laminar]

I'm really glad that Obama's name was spelled with a "zero" in thread title. The 0P's "Oh" key must just be broken and he's making the best of a bad situation.

[Dakar V]

I'm also glad he always includes a link with all the articles he posts outside of a quote bracket.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I'm really glad that Obama's name was spelled with a "zero" in thread title. The 0P's "Oh" key must just be broken and he's making the best of a bad situation.

The "Oh" key is my specialty.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

This is an issue that has not been clarified by the courts. The Constitution doesn't make it clear exactly what "natural born" means, but it DOES include a stipulation that the potential president have been a US resident for at least 14 years. This means, to some anyway, that "natural born" citizenship is simply citizenship from birth as opposed to "naturalized" citizenship.

Thanks for the clarification. I somehow seem to remember that this was the way I was taught in American Government. (Although I shouldn't put too much faith in highschool level stuff )

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

The "Oh" key is my specialty.

Lulz.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

This is an issue that has not been clarified by the courts. The Constitution doesn't make it clear exactly what "natural born" means, but it DOES include a stipulation that the potential president have been a US resident for at least 14 years. This means, to some anyway, that "natural born" citizenship is simply citizenship from birth as opposed to "naturalized" citizenship. Further, MANY military people serve AWAY from US facilities, and their children are just as much citizens as those born on US bases. I think it would be an interesting, if extremely ugly situation if a person who was a military brat who had been born "on the economy" ran for president. That might even be cause for a suit to get all the way to SCOTUS to clarify this stuff once and for all.

Yeah, that's how I've always thought about it. I have a couple friends who were born in Australia to American parents, and while my opinion is certainly not legally binding I see no reason why they would not have the same citizenship status as I do.

[Dork.]

It's not a question of citizenship status, it's a question of what exactly the phrase "natural born" means. AFAIK, the phrase only appears in the context of eligibility for the office of President. So a foreigner who becomes a US citizen after birth has the same status and all the same rights that a US citizen at birth does, except that they will never be eligible to run for President.

The Constitution never defines what "natural born" means, though.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

It's not a question of citizenship status, it's a question of what exactly the phrase "natural born" means. AFAIK, the phrase only appears in the context of eligibility for the office of President. So a foreigner who becomes a US citizen after birth has the same status and all the same rights that a US citizen at birth does, except that they will never be eligible to run for President.

The Constitution never defines what "natural born" means, though.

It means you can't be President if you were born via c-section.

[Dakar V]

The sad thing is, I could see someone interpreting it that way.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

It means you can't be President if you were born via c-section.

Dammit. Just as it's been proven that you don't need to have been born in TLOFT to be Prez, along comes another hurdle preventing Doof's plans for world domination.

[raf66]

When will we learn that First Amendment Rights only belong to liberal special interest groups. My oh my how I wish this story were true.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by raf66 

When will we learn that First Amendment Rights only belong to liberal special interest groups. My oh my how I wish this story were true.

Both "sides" of our political process have favored and disfavored Amendments. The two sides struggle over the First though, because one group likes the "free speech" part while the other likes the "free religion" part, and neither likes the other's part. They bicker about the rest of the amendments too. I want to see a nice knock-down, drag-out tussle over the Third Amendment...That'll really show who is in charge!

But on point, "liberal special interest groups" don't actually want ANYONE to HAVE free speech. They want all speech to be tailored to their own ideas. "Conservative special interest groups" want EXACTLY THE SAME THING. The difference is what those ideas the two sets of groups have. Me, I want BOTH of these sets of groups to GTFO and actually pay attention to the Constitution as a whole, as NONE of it is any good if you pick and choose what you want to apply. I'm neither a "strict constructionist" nor a "living document" adherent; I actually believe that the document must be interpreted when new situations come along, and that interpretation requires taking into account the words, their meaning when written, and what they meant in the context in which they were written. Hamilton couldn't see electronic commerce in the future, Franklin couldn't see medical advances, and Madison couldn't see how the world's political structure would shift in even 10 years, let alone over 200. But they built a FRAMEWORK, including how their rules should be interpreted, and that framework has worked pretty darn well in spite of attempts at despotism, world wars, plagues and depressions.

OK, I'm done with the soap box. Who's next.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Isn't this Very Old News? Obama was born in Honolulu. His mother is from Kansas. Hawaii has been part of the US since the late 1800s. A person born on US territory, to at least one US citizen parent is a US citizen. Case closed.

Please note that his opponent in the election was born in Panama. On a US naval base, but IN Panama, and nobody even bothered to suggest that HE wasn't a citizen.

Can you prove that? What hospital? What was the attending doctor's name and the nurse's name? What time of day? Stuff like that is on the long form, which is how you PROVE where you were born. Any swinging dick can get a short form cert in Hawaii.

Plus, if one of your parents was born in Kenya, that probably doesn't qualify you to a Natural Born Citizen, to qualify under the Constitutional terms to be President.

So unless you can PROVE the how, what, when, where and so on, it's still up in the air.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Plus, if one of your parents was born in Kenya, that probably doesn't qualify you to a Natural Born Citizen, to qualify under the Constitutional terms to be President.

That must be true, since absolutely no political commentators brought up that point during campaigning last year.

[turtle777]

Guys, what's fuzz ? Don't you know that 0bama is special ? Rules and laws don't apply to his administration.

Get off his back and let him do what he does best: redistributing wealth and turning this country into a Socialist nanny state.

-t

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Guys, what's fuzz ? Don't you know that 0bama is special ? Rules and laws don't apply to his administration.

He met all of the eligibility rules. The state of Hawaii says he was born there. I don't think any other candidate had to turn in their "original" birth certificate.

[BadKosh]

YEP HOAX!

I found this:

Circulating via email, a purported AP news story claims transcripts released by Occidental College prove that Barack Obama, under the name 'Barry Soetoro,' received a Fulbright Scholarship awarded to foreign-born students only.

Description: Email hoax
Circulating since: April 2009
Status: False

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

The state of Hawaii says he was born there.

Obviously, it's a conspiracy.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

YEP HOAX!

I found this:

Circulating via email, a purported AP news story claims transcripts released by Occidental College prove that Barack Obama, under the name 'Barry Soetoro,' received a Fulbright Scholarship awarded to foreign-born students only.

Description: Email hoax
Circulating since: April 2009
Status: False

Yeah, I already posted the link to the Snopes article above.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Guys, what's fuzz ? Don't you know that 0bama is special ? Rules and laws don't apply to his administration.

Get off his back and let him do what he does best: redistributing wealth and turning this country into a Socialist nanny state.

Ha, even though the "news" was a hoax, what I said is still right

-t

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Obviously, it's a conspiracy.

God only knows who else Hawaii is covering for. Next thing you know we'll find out that Tia Carrere is actually Canadian.

[BadKosh]

By Joe Kovacs and Jerome Corsi
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

More than eight months after Barack Obama was elected president, the mystery surrounding his precise birthplace is deepening as the myth-busting website Snopes.com – along with several news agencies and an Obama community blog – directly contradict the president's own claim regarding the hospital
in which he was born.

In an official letter signed by Obama on White House stationery, the president celebrates his birth at the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu, Hawaii. The facility has posted that letter on its website, along with video of the letter being read in public.


Barack Obama states in this letter on White House stationery that he was born at the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu. The letter was posted by the medical center on its website.

But according to Snopes, the popular online hoax-buster that many rely on as the final word on both important and frivolous stories, Obama was born at a different hospital in the Hawaiian capital.

Want to turn up the pressure to learn the facts? Get your signs and postcards asking for the president's birth certificate documentation here.

In Snopes' entry concerning allegations that Obama is a "radical Muslim," the site addresses the birth history of the commander in chief, stating, "Barack Hussein Obama was born on 4 August 1961 at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii."

WND took a screen shot of the entry and highlighted the name of the hospital.

[Dakar V]

Oh, if only I could see the screen shot by clicking on the link to the article.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

That must be true, since absolutely no political commentators brought up that point during campaigning last year.

Dude, wake up and see what is going on. He's Black. If you DARE question him, you are labled as a racist. Political correctness has gone very far with this one.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

God only knows who else Hawaii is covering for. Next thing you know we'll find out that Tia Carrere is actually Canadian.

Or that Don Ho's sister's real name is Fat.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Plus, if one of your parents was born in Kenya, that probably doesn't qualify you to a Natural Born Citizen, to qualify under the Constitutional terms to be President.

The courts threw out all complaints that Obama was not qualified based on his birth. I do not need to see a long-form birth certificate to accept that the courts demanded that much proof and were satisfied with what was presented.

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

That must be true, since absolutely no political commentators brought up that point during campaigning last year.

This is not only a good catch, it's a STARTLINGLY GOOD comment on how the pundits work... But sadly it's false. The pundits simply missed this stuff because it's over their heads. Sort of like badminton...

[turtle777]

A possible explanation is that 0bama was never born like a normal person.

Maybe he was hatched ?

-t

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Dude, wake up and see what is going on. He's Black. If you DARE question him, you are labled as a racist. Political correctness has gone very far with this one.

And you're already proven that you'll latch onto any attempt to make 0bama look bad, disregarding whether or not it makes any sense whatsoever.

[Chuckit]

Hey, BadKosh, did you know they they took the word "gullible" out of this year's dictionaries?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

This is not only a good catch, it's a STARTLINGLY GOOD comment on how the pundits work... But sadly it's false. The pundits simply missed this stuff because it's over their heads. Sort of like badminton...

Are you saying that the pundits and political commentators didn't suggest that "if one of your parents was born in Kenya, that probably doesn't qualify you to a Natural Born Citizen, to qualify under the Constitutional terms to be President"?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Dude, wake up and see what is going on. He's Black. If you DARE question him, you are labled as a racist. Political correctness has gone very far with this one.

Yeah, except for the birth certificate issue which was hounding him for a good amount of the campaign. And him being a secret muslim. And his qualifications as a Community Organizer. And his foreign policy experience.

But no, he's been untouched.

[BadKosh]

Heres a linky to the MORE THAN ONE HOSPITAL post -

Obama birth mystery: More than 1 hospital

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

By Joe Kovacs and Jerome Corsi
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

More than eight months after Barack Obama was elected president, the mystery surrounding his precise birthplace is deepening as the myth-busting website Snopes.com – along with several news agencies and an Obama community blog – directly contradict the president's own claim regarding the hospital
in which he was born......

Snopes also quotes a story about someone who was actually involved in Obama's life. Barbara Nelson knew the obstetrician that delivered him, and she later was his teacher. That story specifically states that the hospital was Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children. I think the "contradiction" is more based on quoting various sources which may have inadvertently mis-named the hospital.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Are you saying that the pundits and political commentators didn't suggest that "if one of your parents was born in Kenya, that probably doesn't qualify you to a Natural Born Citizen, to qualify under the Constitutional terms to be President"?

I think Dakar's point was that since the nationality of Obama's father was repeated so often in the media as part of his biography and is common knowledge, it would be pretty silly to think that having a non-American parent would somehow jeopardize your otherwise "natural born" status. Otherwise, all these frivolous lawsuits would have something concrete to address.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Snopes also quotes a story about someone who was actually involved in Obama's life. Barbara Nelson knew the obstetrician that delivered him, and she later was his teacher. That story specifically states that the hospital was Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children. I think the "contradiction" is more based on quoting various sources which may have inadvertently mis-named the hospital.

What?!?! But I read it in WORLDNETDAILY, the "independent conservative news website with an emphasis on aggressive investigative reporting." It has to be true!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

What?!?! But I read it in WORLDNETDAILY, the "independent conservative news website with an emphasis on aggressive investigative reporting." It has to be true!

Oh yeah! It was on the Intarwebs... My bad!

[Dakar V]

Ok, so his certificate of live birth doesn't list his birth hospital, but snopes somehow has an entry. So the question is, where did Snopes get that information from?

[BadKosh]

WHAT!!! Something on the INTARWEB IS WRONG!!!

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I think Dakar's point was that since the nationality of Obama's father was repeated so often in the media as part of his biography and is common knowledge, it would be pretty silly to think that having a non-American parent would somehow jeopardize your otherwise "natural born" status. Otherwise, all these frivolous lawsuits would have something concrete to address.

I understood it. It just wasn't clear to me if ghporter did.