[Trapper]

I just received my iMac 350 a few days ago and, of course, it came with os 8.6. I'm thinking about taking advantage of Apple's OS Up-To-Date programme and getting os 9. However, now I'm wondering if I might not be better of just waiting for 9 to come out. For one thing, I have Norton Utilities 4.03, and while I can no longer boot off the cd, I can still run disk doctor off the hard drive. It's my understanding that with os 9, I won't even be able to do that. I'm not ready to lay out the extra money for Norton Utilities 5 right now. So, what's your advice? How long would I have to wait for os X? Thanks in advance,

Travis Hreno
Department of Philosophy
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario
CANADA
[email protected]

Get it. It's stable

[DarwinX]

I love OS 9. If you use your Mac properly you probably can survive without it, I do. I wouldn't expect OS X till May, and that will come with some of the same headaches as with upgrading to OS 9. So if you can get it for $20 dollars or whatever it is, I would go and get it.

[Gregory]

Considering the bugs in 8.6, and improved DFA in 9.0, also 9.0 prevents writes to directory catalog (bug in 8.6).

9.01 will probably be live-update and 40MB .smi file download. Avoid the bugs in 9, read what is needed, update disk driver, trash 8.6 DFA. And you won't need/miss Norton which is still playing (mucking?) with 5.0. but I would get NAV 6 just for insurance.

For some reason, IE use to run fine with VM on, now it still has illigal writes in RAM, but only once a day. Go figure, MS Office update just released is strange too.

Partition now, and have an emergency boot partition, or keep 8.6 and 9.0 on each.

I wouldn't wait for OS X, unless you have a lot of time on your hands to prepare for installation. X is based on apple's variant of the BSD operating system functionming under the macOS similar to how dos functions under windows. this brings into play a new formatting type UFS or macOS X format, one step beyond HFS+. To install you have to back up all of your hard drive, unless you have a spare 1 gig partition laying around that you are not using for anything. Because unless you have the rewuired one gig partition, you will need to repartition your hard drive to allow for that. also you should be somewhat familiar with unix to get around the underlying operating system. Also OS X will not support pre-G3 systems, this includes computers with G3 processor upgrades. this is because it will be reliant on some of the components of G3 motherboard harware, not just the processor. If you want you can try running Darwin (the UNIX/BSD half) alone, according to some sources it will also run on intel computers.

Almost everything in the previous posting about OS X is incorrect. I recently received my OS X Client dp2 CD and have installed it on my powerbook G3 and 8500/G3. First of all, it does not use (you have the option of), UFS volumes. You are thinking about OS 10 Server , not the client. It uses MacOS native HFS+ volumes, which it will ask you to choose prior to installation. And by the way, you won't even notice there is UNIX underneath doing the dirty work, the GUI is almost indentical to OS 9. You don't need any UNIX knowledge to get around "the underlying OS", you're talking about OS 10 Server as I said previously. You have to backup for this Developer Release prior to installation, by the full release it will install on any previous HFS+ drive. Once installed OS X sees your OS 8/9 volume and vice versa. Just for your information the dev release and final will install on unsupported machines, IE my 8500 but certain supported functions will and don't work properly. Just my two cents on a very poorly informing post. My two cents though - get OS 9 now, its great.

[penginkun]

Were I you, I would avoid 9 like the plague. I've had nothing but troubles with it.

I'm still recovering from the problems I had on Saturday. Even though I did a low-level format and zeroed the drive, 8.6 (which is the last version I'll ever trust) crashes on the stupidest things, stuff which never caused my machine to crash before.

I don't want to seem like an alarmist - many people here have reported zero problems with 9. To them I say, "You're lucky." As for me, I'm sticking with 8.6. I'm even tempted to step back another step to 8.5.1.

X is pointless at this stage. I've seen it. There isn't much you can do with it yet. Maybe once those apps start trickling in there might be a reason to switch, but until they do, it's nothing more than a curiosity.

While I applaud Apple's desire to provide us with regular updates to the system (unlike a certain other OS manufacturer I could name) I really wish they wouldn't rush them out the door. I'd rather wait an extra six months for the OS update than have to fight through bugs and crashes and the software incompatibilities the updates invariably bring. Come on, Apple - give us a break! Make sure it works, THEN ship it!

Well uh, yeah there isn't much for OS 10 yet, its a developmental release. And from a developer who uses it, there is lots of stuff for it, stuff we use everyday. And as for OS 9, it is relatively bug free, you're having prepostorously (<-spelling) bad luck.

[penginkun]

Yeah, that's what I thought too, but...

I've been using 9 in various forms since Alpha 4, and I think that was one of the last truely stable versions.

Maybe you're right though, and I'm just having the worst possible luck.

It's odd, really - it's usually just the opposite with me. Everyone else has problems and I don't. Ah, well. I'm happy with 8.6 for right now. I'll wait for my new iMac, and hope that it comes with 9 pre-installed so I don't have to worry that I botched the install or something.

Regarding the availability of apps for X, though... Is there a browser out there? We have X installed on an iMac at work and I'd like to be able to browse the web on it. Any ideas? Thanks!

Am I allowed to disclose this information here? heh Well do you have OS X client dp2 or OS X Server installed. If it is OS X Server, Omniweb comes installed and is an excellent browser. If it is OS X dp2, which I use, Omniweb does not work for some reason. I suspect it has to do with the change in Cocoa API's between the two OS's. I bet a patch is coming. Anyway the developer release 2 runs outstanding on my Powerbook g3/400. I am very impressed.

Do the standard MacOS browsers, Navigator and IE 4.5, work in OSXdp2?

Posted above is the suggestion that the final release of OSX consumer will continue to allow installs on unsupported machines. I'm not sure that we should take this "gift" from Apple for granted. They leave it in probably as a convenience for their developers and for third-party developers... and because it might require Apple's time and effort to break support for older PCI machines.

But they might decide, as they did with the Blue and White G3s, that boosting company profits outweighs any implied obligations the Mac community, and remove the "unsupported" option. Then you'd *have* to buy new Apple hardware if you wished to run the new OS.

Apple need only remove a few lines of code from the install script to ensure that anyone running their shiny new OS would be running it on at least an iMac vintage machine (mid-98 or newer). Most of Apple's revenue comes form hardware sales. When the time comes, will they do the Right Thing or will they "encourage" people to buy new hardware?

[Remember that Apple broke G4 support in the Blue and Whites with a Trojan-horse ROM update in part because they "never claimed that the PowerMac G3s were upgradeable". They have as yet never claimed that OSX will run on anything less than a factory PowerMac G3 or newer.]

First of all, the first PowerMac G3's were in released in November of '97, so no, you don't need a spanking new '98 iMac to run it, but I get your point here. Secondly, it runs like **** on unsupported machines at this point, I know from personal experience. Thirdly, they have every right to limit the supported machines, this gives their intended consumers (powerusers, media and IT) the ability to have a more powerful OS without providing backwards compatibility with the clunkers. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I believe anyway wishing to really take advantage of OS 10, and really need to, will be running capable hardware by March of 2000. (This problem in itself has been discussed since OS X Server was anounced early this year, and even before with Rhapsody). I respect Apple's G3 only decision on this one, sorry.

[hmr]

Wait for Mac OS X!!! Mac OS 9 has been a terrible headache ever since I installed it (yesterday)! I booted of the CD-ROM and it froze in the Finder when I was filling in the Mac OS Setup Assistant information ... twice. And there are no new great features. I'm very dissapointed! It's everything but stable. I even installed it on a clean disk (just formatted it) ... no change.

My Mac is the older iMac (Rev. A) with 96 MB of RAM.

Maybe I should just install my dear OS 8.6 again ...

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[hmr]

Wait for Mac OS X!!! Mac OS 9 has been a terrible headache ever since I installed it (yesterday)! I booted of the CD-ROM, installed, restarted and it froze in the Finder when I was filling in the Mac OS Setup Assistant information ... twice. And there are no new great features. I'm very dissapointed! It's everything but stable. I even installed it on a clean disk (just formatted it) ... no change.

My Mac is the older iMac (Rev. A) with 96 MB of RAM.

Maybe I should just install my dear OS 8.6 again ...

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1) do clean install
2) rebuild the desktop
3) update the harddisk driver
4) disconnect usb iomega zip
5) partition your drive one for 8.6 and one for 9.0

I wish you all the best

os 9 is rock solid on my beige g3 333

[This message has been edited by Flurk (edited 12-04-1999).]