Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > News > Mac News > Rumor Roundup: waiting until late 2017 for that 'feeling of freshness'

Rumor Roundup: waiting until late 2017 for that 'feeling of freshness'
Thread Tools
NewsPoster
MacNN Staff
Join Date: Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 22, 2016, 10:06 PM
 
We don't want to be party-poopers, but it is time for another Rumor Roundup mini-rant: apparently, logic is no longer taught in public schools. We say this because on Friday, as often happens, a single piece of true information was teased out worse than Cure lead singer Robert Smith's hair to make a fact fit a set of beliefs. While the extrapolation is plausible, like all bad science it tends to disregard anything that could also be true, but doesn't fit the pre-conceived theory.

We will get to all the latest speculation on the iPhone 7, what's on tap for WWDC (or just before it), and what's beyond that in a minute, but to elaborate on the above: we found out that Apple has hired yet another person from the automotive industry, specifically poached from Tesla. David Masiukiewicz was a senior CNC programmer for the electric carmaker, helping create prototypes of (mostly, we believe) metal parts. He is now working for Apple in a similar position, Senior Model Maker.

From this, we get stories about how Apple is now prototyping parts for the Apple Car. Well, maybe that's true. It's certainly possible, maybe even probable, but there's no real evidence of this. If you're thinking you've heard the term CNC before, you have: Sir Jonathan Ive mentions it constantly when talking about chamfered edges and the unibody MacBook line. That's right: Mr. Masiukiewicz is an expert aluminum shaper and robotic CNC machine programmer. Such a person would be great to have to make car parts.

Of course, such a person would also be great to have to make iPhone prototypes, MacBook-family prototypes, Mac Pro prototypes, iPad prototypes, Apple Watch prototypes, parts for a robotics program (which, unlike for an Apple Car, we actually have indisputable proof one exists), or even working with the Liquidmetal team on whatever it is those people do. Or, yes, car parts. Absolutely could be just car parts. We're just saying that fact A does not prove theory B.

To put this another way: if it were discovered that Apple had poached an office-cleaning team that coincidentally used to work for Tesla, would we then conclude that Apple is building its own electric-powered street sweeper? We note that Masiukiewicz said that the reason he left Tesla was due to "compelling" reasons from Apple. Probably he meant "lots of green papery slips of compelling reasons," but possibly he meant that the company offered him the option of doing more than just programming CNC machines to make car parts: we're just saying.

Apple itself has said that it is working on a big exciting project, and it has acknowledged an interest in automotive stuff beyond its current CarPlay technology. It has hired loads of automotive people. So it is entirely fair to say that Apple has an automotive project in the works, and that it could be its own car. Or a co-manufactured car. Or a licensed design for a car, or just the computerized parts thereof. Or some self-driving and/or accident-prevention goodness. The point is, jumping to conclusions is a lot like parkour; sometimes you make it to the next roof in an awesome slo-mo movie-style moment, sometimes you fall flat on your face in a hilarious YouTube blooper reel.

Yeah, yeah, what about the iPhone 7?

We have mentioned before that Ming Chi Kuo, an analyst with KGI Securities that has an above-average but uneven track record on predictions, has said that one distinguishing feature of the "2017 iPhone" would be a return to the iPhone 4-like glass chassis in its design: airplane-grade aluminum is so yesterday, and apparently everybody's doing it, so Apple will move on and go back to the days when the iPhone was more breakable and heavier. Ming-Chi also notes that he believes that iPhone will sport an AMOLED screen, not dissimilar to the OLED screen it uses for the Apple Watch, which is very likely to be the case.

An all-glass back 2017 iPhone?
An all-glass back 2017 iPhone?


He has also promulgated the theory that Apple will shake up the "tick tock" cycle of iPhone refreshes -- a new design followed the next year by a similar exterior with mostly upgraded internals -- by creating an "iPhone 7" this year that looks more like an "iPhone 6s II," if you will, though it will be called the "iPhone 7." Another analyst, analyst Mark Moskowitz of Barclays, added to this theory, telling clients that the real redesign, the aforementioned "2017 iPhone," would jump the track and not be called the "iPhone 7s" but move straight on to "iPhone 8" -- do not pass Go, do not collect the $200 you'll need for your down payment!

Moskowitz also says the "iPhone 8 of 2017" would be the one that finally incorporates the home button right into the screen, eliminating the physical one, plus it will feature wireless charging -- because why not? Incidentally, Ming-Chi is also on the record as saying the 2017 iPhone will use a curved glass case and be up to 5.8 inches in the Plus model. One has to wonder, though: given that it is this year -- 2016 -- in which iPhone sales are declining, waiting until October of 2017 to give buyers a "really new" iPhone and using the fall 2016 window to offer what amounts to a further-improved iPhone 6s with a speed bump and possibly dual cameras sounds like a huge opportunity for Samsung to us. That A10 chip and iOS 10 had better be pretty compelling.

What the -- a Mac rumor?

Boy it has been a while since we had a good juicy Mac rumor, but we got one earlier this week and it is a doozy: new AMD to replace Intel in a future iMac, and an AMD upgrade for the top-line MacBook Pro. This rumor has since been "confirmed" by WCCFTech (so, not AMD or Apple ...), but it is certainly possible: Apple uses AMD for its Mac Pro graphics cards and high-end MBP and 27-inch iMacs, for example. The Polaris 10 (R9 4xx) could go in an iMac, replacing the current Radeon R9 M380/M390/M395 options, while the larger Polaris 11 would work with the MacBook Pros, replacing the R9 M370 in the current top model.

These new GPUs' main feature would be significant power savings rather than simply another gain in graphics performance, but this would have a very beneficial effect on mobile Macs, vastly reducing the amount of power needed for the same or better graphics prowess: performance per-watt would nearly double. The Polaris chips are being made with a 14-nanometer process rather than the current 28nm process. Another member of the Polaris family could conceivably be used in a future Mac Pro, should Apple choose to update that model, using a 16nm process.



One tiny problem: the Polaris chips are just barely going to be out before WWDC, so the expected time frame of these souped-up machines' debut could get pushed back. Still, even if that happens, there should be plenty of goodies on tap for the annual developer conference, including the likely debut of iOS 10 (iOS X?) and OS X 10.12 (which might very well be called just "MacOS" -- or "macOS" in keeping with the current nomenclature); new MacBook Pros, and lots of software and cloud features, reportedly including a big security update in light of the San Bernardino (and other) FBI case.

One thing we won't see at WWDC is the Apple Car, that much is certain. What's the holdup, you ask? Well, if you follow the rumors, lots of things: a lack of progress that resulted in the previous head of the project leaving Apple, though he's reportedly been replaced by a senior Tesla executive; a manufacturing partner leaving the deal over disagreements on iCloud and management; a hiring freeze; and worst of all, the whole operation has apparently moved to Germany. Yes, it's apparently not in that California garage where people hear "motor noises" coming from an electric car lab anymore.

As we said, we like to be open-minded, so we will admit to being facetious about that last bit: Apple could certainly have more than one car-testing facility, and Germany's certainly a place where that could happen. Plus, the German lab it said to have only 15-20 employees, compared to the alleged "1,000-plus" team Apple has supposedly assembled. The thing that does strike us odd about this, however, is that the smaller Berlin team are charged with "imagining, and realizing, vehicles of the future," according to a recent report.

Motor Trend
Motor Trend's idea of the Apple Car


Several years into the Apple Car's development, this seem like an odd time to start creating an "incubator for ideas on future vehicles" and "studying potential manufacturing partnerships," or maybe that's just us. Maybe they are, like Ming-Chi Kuo, looking ahead to the future -- and the Apple Car 2!
( Last edited by NewsPoster; Apr 23, 2016 at 10:24 PM. )
     
FreshFacedRecruit
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Aug 2015
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 23, 2016, 03:23 PM
 
Boy it has been a while since we had a good juicy Mac rumor, but we got one earlier this week and it is a doozy: AMD to replace Nvidia in the next MacBook Pro and possibly iMac. This rumor has since been "confirmed" by <em>WCCFTech</em> (so, not AMD or Apple ...), but it is certainly possible: Apple uses AMD for its Mac Pro graphics cards, for example. The Polaris 10 could go in an iMac, which usually uses mobile-type graphics solutions, while the beefier Polaris 11 would work with the MacBook Pros.

These new GPUs' main feature would be significant power savings rather that hugely-improved graphics prowess, but this would have a very beneficial effect on mobile Macs, vastly reducing the amount of power needed for the same performance. Performance per-watt would nearly double, but this does not mean real-world performance would increase: the Polaris chips are being made with a 14-nanometer process rather than the current 28nm process. Another member of the Polaris family could conceivably be used in a future Mac Pro, should Apple choose to update that model, using a 16nm process.
...uh, what part of the articles/links posted in the VR/Occulus Rift thread did macnn staff not understand??? There is indeed vastly improved graphics performance, rather than just power saving/efficiency.

Unless u mean the "beefier" Polaris in the MBP could b the R9 470X which has likely a very small performance increase over the R9 470 which is only mentioned to have 4 fewer CU's, R9 470 of ~50w TDP is clearly not beefier than potential Polaris 10 R9 490 that might go into the iMAC. A

& wut up with the incorrect statement about replacing Nvidia with AMD, when AMD is *currently* in both MBP & iMac? And WCCF did say AMD scored wins on both the Macbook & iMac...(which they mentioned, but did not specify Apple...last year, confirming recently), not "maybe" but possitively in the iMac. Uh, do some more reading on the code named Polaris 10 & 11. please click on links and actually read/look @images, etc. Polaris 11 is the laptop chip that is smaller in die size, while the 100w+ Polaris 10 that might come to the iMac is a larger gpu (but still smaller than the 28nm current gpu). Try using the code name Vega on the gpu that might go into the MP, read up on it!
     
FreshFacedRecruit
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Aug 2015
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 23, 2016, 03:51 PM
 
Boy it has been a while since we had a good juicy Mac rumor, but we got one earlier this week and
...unlike almost all other rumor sites, macnn chose not to publish it!

Boy it has been a while since we had a good juicy Mac rumor, but we got one earlier this week and it is a doozy: AMD to replace Nvidia in the next MacBook Pro and possibly iMac. This rumor has since been "confirmed" by <em>WCCFTech</em> (so, not AMD or Apple ...), but it is certainly possible: Apple uses AMD for its Mac Pro graphics cards, for example. The Polaris 10 could go in an iMac, which usually uses mobile-type graphics solutions, while the beefier Polaris 11 would work with the MacBook Pros.

These new GPUs' main feature would be significant power savings rather that hugely-improved graphics prowess, but this would have a very beneficial effect on mobile Macs, vastly reducing the amount of power needed for the same performance. Performance per-watt would nearly double, but this does not mean real-world performance would increase: the Polaris chips are being made with a 14-nanometer process rather than the current 28nm process. Another member of the Polaris family could conceivably be used in a future Mac Pro, should Apple choose to update that model, using a 16nm process.
...uh, what part of the articles/links posted in the VR/Occulus Rift thread did macnn staff not understand??? There is indeed vastly improved graphics performance, rather than just power saving/efficiency.

Unless u mean the "beefier" Polaris in the MBP could b the R9 470X which has likely a very small performance increase over the R9 470 which is only mentioned to have 4 fewer CU's, R9 470 of ~50w TDP is clearly not beefier than potential Polaris 10 R9 490 that might go into the iMAC. As u should know, Apple can get AMD to do a modified/custom gpu for them, which could be underclocked. etc to reduce heat/fan speeds in the thin iMac/MBP cases.

2015 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro’s dGPU (R9 M370X) Is Cape Verde.

^where u guys been, AMD already replaced Nvidia in the 2015 MBP with the R9 370X???

Remember, CU r not the only changes, there are architectural changes in the Polaris, u can't compare 28nm node tech to the 14nm node as though everything is unchanged other than power/watt. MBP may need a R9 470X to run the Occulus Rift in comparable manner to a GTX970

& wut up with the incorrect statement about replacing Nvidia with AMD, when AMD is *currently* in both MBP & iMac? And WCCF did say AMD scored wins on both the Macbook & iMac...(which they mentioned, but did not specify Apple...last year, confirming recently), not "maybe" but positively in the iMac. Uh, do some more reading on the code named Polaris 10 & 11. please click on links and actually read/look @images, etc. Polaris 11 is the laptop chip that is smaller in die size, while the 100w+ TDP Polaris 10 that might come to the iMac is a larger gpu (but still smaller than the 28nm current gpu). Try using the code name AMD Vega on the gpu that might go into the MP, read up on it!

Doubt Apple will announce updated MBP/iMac @WWDC, but in theory they *could* as the gpu's r probably in sufficient supply by then to allow Apple to use them.

AMD To Take More Graphics Share From Nvidia In 2016 - Report

Suffice to say, Polaris features significant changes to the GCN architecture, not incremental improvements as was the case with previous iterations

AMD CEO Lisa Su, confirmed yesterday[April 21, 2016] that Polaris will indeed launch in Q2 – April-May-June – and stated that the exact date will be announced ahead of time. All leaks and whispers that we’ve come across point towards a June launch. Su’s comments certainly lend legitimacy to what we’ve been hearing. So far we’ve seen specifications for both of AMD’s Polaris graphics chips, Polaris 10 and 11, leak online and even AMD’s fabled Vega 10 flagship GPU. So the launch of Polaris is evidently nearing.
June launch, probably Computex ...R9 490, R9 480, R9 470...Apple could have custom chips of all of these being made for them by AMD
     
DiabloConQueso
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 23, 2016, 09:26 PM
 
Uhhh... what?
     
Charles Martin
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Maitland, FL
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 23, 2016, 10:02 PM
 
FFR: I did indeed forget that the top of the line MBP uses an AMD. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll correct the article.

Unless u mean the "beefier" Polaris in the MBP could b the R9 470X which has likely a very small performance increase over the R9 470 which is only mentioned to have 4 fewer CU's, R9 470 of ~50w TDP is clearly not beefier than potential Polaris 10 R9 490 that might go into the iMAC
That is indeed what I meant. I'll see if I can phrase that more clearly.

As for the "confirmation" thing, what I meant there is that a third-party site can't "confirm" a rumor: only AMD or Apple can actually "confirm" that the next MBP or iMac will use the newest Polaris chips, and they of course haven't. So at this point, it's not really confirmed. It's just "very likely."
Charles Martin
MacNN Editor
     
Mike Wuerthele
Managing Editor
Join Date: Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 23, 2016, 11:18 PM
 
Regarding rumors. We're not big fans in the newsroom. We do these roundups because of public demand. We do them the way we do them, because we'd rather you know up front that these are educated guesses, and generally little else, until the silicon hits the street.

We're also not big fans of BREATHLESS REVEALS OF APPLE'S UPCOMING AND RUMORED whatever.
     
Charles Martin
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Maitland, FL
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 24, 2016, 02:16 AM
 
Or nonsense like "what we know" about the iPhone 7. They don't "know" jack, and apparently don't even know what "know" means.
Charles Martin
MacNN Editor
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 24, 2016, 06:57 PM
 
the bit about the Mac graphics cards is a bit confusing, partly because of the names being confusing. Polaris 10 is the big one, should end up in the top iMac, and Polaris 11 is the small one. They will indeed save energy, but not compared to what is in those boxes today. Polaris 10 has leaked, should have performance similar to the current Radeon 390 (Hawaii), but with energy consumption similar to the 380 (Tonga) series - coincidentally, what Apple puts in the top iMac today (although they refer to it by its name as a mobile chip). In the same way, Polaris 11 has been demoed with a performance similar to today's Radeon 370X (Picairn) but with a much lower consumption - very similar to the chip in the top MBP, in fact (Cape Verde, and I'll stop with the codenames now).

In effect, the new generation of chips means that Apple can move one big step up the GPU hierarchy and stay in the same TDP, and therefore do so without making battery life worse or cooling any beefier.

Polaris 11 was demoed in January, btw. It is ready to launch when AMD says so, but they want to launch with some big OEMs. Polaris 10 might be a bit later, but the iMac doesn't need an update as much as the MBP does.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Charles Martin
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Maitland, FL
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 24, 2016, 10:36 PM
 
There are some images floating around the web showing different things. One (that I had planned to use for this article) showed the P10 as smaller, but other images show the more logical progression of the Polaris 11 being smaller. I'll put in a call to AMD on Monday and sort that out.
Charles Martin
MacNN Editor
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:02 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,