[oscar]

What is your guys's take on drugs? Should they all be legalized, just some, good the way it is?

My feeling is this: America's drug policy is ineffective, and wrongly puts people in prison that shouldn't be there. Our prisons, and jails are filling up with pot heads, while child molestors are getting out on parole, is this right?

As Peter Tosh, and Sublime but it "Legalize it, Don't critisize it"

Your opinion?


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-See Yea!

[MacNZ]

In NZ and Australia and I bet in America there is a strong link between drugs and other serious crimes and drugs are often seen as a factor in these crimes. Of course smoking one or two joints doesn't put you automatically in this category but puts you at risk of developing other unpleaseant habits. I don't believe there should be any more leniency where I live on drug taking and since it is detrimental to society should remain illegal and so enforced.

[wlonh]

the war on drugs in the USA is a war on the general populace, the rate of incarceration in the USA is the highest per capita of any nation in the world...

don't bother to ask why, just assume that all prisoners deserve their fate because they must've done something... after all, you aren't in prison, are you?

i say lock 'em all up and throw away the key... no, better yet let's shoot them all

on second thought, shooting is too inhumane, we should do like Dubya does and inject them with drugs that kill them

yeah, that's the ticket

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 06-23-2000).]

[DBursey]

Pot smoking leads to serious abuse of other substances; in particular: Potato Chips!

It's up to governments and law enforcement to save us from more 'reefer madness'

The War on Drugs is crap. It's been crap ever since the beginning of time. The more government attempts to push drug kingpins into prison, etc., the more drug kingpins will pop up and take their place. If gov't intends on interfering w/the market, the dealers and manufacturers will just hide it better or take it elsewhere (e.g, South America, Asia, etc.) and sell their goods there. So, just keep the same policy now to keep the people happy...Anyway, Americans don't have the patience for a long-term policy resembling China's 10-year (actually more like 30-40 year) anti-drug crackdown during the 1800s nor do they have the guts to just shoot the crack dealers, etc. when they encounter them (e.g., the Chinese police/army just used to shoot any pot-smoking or pot-dealing crackhead back in the 1800s, no trials, no jury, no questions asked, no nothing!).

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Did you have your Mac today?

[reader50]

Let them High themselves to death.

After all, if the government bans everything addictive, they would have to collect up our Macs!

[Shades of Gray]

You're not getting my chocolate!

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patience - now that's a virtue I can't wait for!

[seanyepez]

You will have to pry my Internet connection (whatever it is at the time) out of my dead, cold fingers. That goes for my beloved PowerBook too.

You can take my PC though...

[bood69]

I would say legalize marijuana, keep everything else illegal.

[Anthony the PC lover]

yeah i say legalize alcohol for all ages. We are like the only country in the world (U.S.) that outlaws underage drinking. I've been to places like Italy and I didnt see one underage kid drinking; they just dont care for alcohol because it's been available to them their whole lives. Teenagers in the U.S. are obsessed with beer only because its illegal and they can't have it, and that makes it even more tempting

[Anthony the PC lover]

Oh yeah, and why the hell is marijuana illegal? Its so weak in affecting your functionality! Alcohol gets you wasted into unconsciousness, pot just makes you smile, and yet alcohol os the legal one

[oscar]

Weed was outlawed during prohibibtion (sp?) and was nevr repealed. Hemp, and to a smaller extent, weed was HUGE in our country before it was outlawed.

If you feel like doing something, donate a fe bucks to www.norml.org

Maybe I should call Jesse Ventura!

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-See Yea!

[wlonh]

and William Randolph Hearst had a hand in the whole affair... demonizing hemp, helping to create an atmosphere for prohibition of cannabis, and he had reasons that went beyond any morality

George Washington grew it and it is beyond a doubt he did more than just grow it ... etc etc etc...

to put anyone in jail for using it is criminal itself

[oscar]

It's this type of non violent crime that would seem to go well beyond my meaning of the word America. If your reading this thread, and think "But's it's wrong, cause it's bad for you" First off, should the government decide what you do behind close doors? Secondly, There is lot's of propaganda about marijuana, such as "It's worse for you health / it's stronger then it used to be" argument holds no merit, since both are false. Study the facts, and make a real decision on the matter. (You too you moral conservatives)


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-See Yea!

[reader50]

If we just let the dopers OD themselves legally, just think how much our car insurance will go down. Who knows, maybe flying will finally become more dangerous than driving to the store.

[bood69]

I wouldn't presume to worry about the decisions adults make in taking illegal drugs....what is important is protecting today's kids who don't know any better because their parents are worthless.

[wlonh]

alcohol is indicated as a cause of more violence, crime, and death than cannabis ever was...

statements like "flying will become as dangerous" etc., are completely disingenuous and beneath contempt: intellectually bankrupt

[DBursey]

I've read an interesting 'conspiracy' theory which basically went that back in the thirties the pulp and paper industry had conspired with the government of the day to demonize marijuana; thus to outlaw all forms of hemp. They did this to protect their livelyhood, as hemp is a much more efficient crop for the production of paper products.

I forget the source, but it was a great story!

[garrettnelson]

here's an ultracynical viewpoint (don't hurt me!)

"Drugs are nature's way of eliminating the people stupid enough to take them."

[bizzare]

This is what I think:



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-Bizzare

Specs: PowerBook (Firewire), 500 mHz, 256 MB RAM, 18 GB HD, AirPort, OS 9.0.4

[Feathers]

Of course, Marijuana/hemp was criminalised to cripple the economy of a certain Island that refused to give the U.S. the mineral rights to mine bauxite, ie: aluminium. If you don't believe me, look it up. Y'know the stuff they fiendishly hide in things called books!!!

If the question is drugs, the answer has to be: Yes Please!

[wlonh]

ahhh... truth... facts... ahhhh!

how refreshing

[yoyo52]

A little bit of a good thing to facilitate social intercourse (please note "social" ) is fine and dandy, but in the pursuit of the eternal high that often follows the little bit, drugs are boring. And I, having only a very hazy memory of the late sixties and early seventies, have the experience to say so. Looking at zonked people now from the outside, I find it amazing that they can stand themselves. Or that I could stand myself back in that never never lala land.

[bizzare]

Steve Jobs spent most of his collage years baked. He most likley was ripped when he thought of the Apple computer. Drugs are GOOD

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-Bizzare

Specs: PowerBook (Firewire), 500 mHz, 256 MB RAM, 18 GB HD, AirPort, OS 9.0.4

[MacNZ]

Someone said why should weed be outlawed, that it doesn't do anything. Yeah, it only wrecks your short term memory, is worse than smoking in terms of lung cancer, it is hellishly addictive and robs my friends of all their money. Also my mom who's a drug councillor got attacked by a psycho withdrawn weed addict and it wasn't a pretty site.

Parents need to be more careful with booze too and it shouldn't be legalized to younger ppl. After goin to a party, gettiing trashed + seeing a few of my friends kill themselves I am pretty worried bout that kinda thing

[Feathers]

Everything in moderation

[Cipher13]

Keep the laws mostly as they are, but prosecute the dealers more heavily. Hollow point to the kneecaps.
Other than that it doesn't really bother me - they'll either get incarcerated or killed, and either way works for me. I'd prefer killed though (for dealers) as its cheaper to kill someone that to keep 'em alive in jail.

Cipher13

[Feathers]

Somebody said hash wrecks your short term something but I can't remember what!

[disectamac]

Unfortunately, everything in moderation has in general proven not to be the way of thought in the U.S. thus the 21 drinking age.

Let's look at some of the general American attitudes when it comes to drinking and driving. "I'm good, I can drive!!" or "I drive better with a few beers in me", or "There's no way I'm giving up my keys, no one drives this car but ME!! drunk or not drunk". Then of course you have the daring ones who drive 65 MPH on a one way st. in the wrong direction. Then you have the bolder ones who sip out of a bottle while speeding up when at yellow lights and sometimes cross it even if it does turn red before they get there. Then you have our lovely daredevils who just like to push it a little bit more around that highway curve with the bumps on it, thinking to themeselves, "at what point will this car start to spin out on me". Of course while these thoughts are running through the mind of an extremely intoxitacted individual, other more important things don't process quite fast enough. Such as the fact that there is haulted traffic in front them or the fact that there is a police unit that has been trying to pull him over for over 3 minutes now. After realizing that he is involved in a car chase and is already evading a police officer why stop now right? "I bet a can lose him".

I know not where I'm headed with this post. um.... I've lost a good friend, almost an uncle, my father and many others to this brave and irresponsible attitude built in to our society.

[Feathers]

Yup! When you're right, you're right, sadly.

[bizzare]

just because the US is retarded doen't mean the world has to suffer. weed should be legalized compared to what is alreadly legal. Tobacco and alchohol are way more addictive and damaging than pot. And pot doesn't fuel rage.

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-Bizzare

Specs: PowerBook (Firewire), 500 mHz, 256 MB RAM, 18 GB HD, AirPort, OS 9.0.4

[wlonh]

MacNZ, you need your head examined...

hellishly addictive? hell i have not smoked pot in years and years and my god man pot is completely and i mean completely pacifying, if you know someone attacked by a drug-crazed fool it was not pot that did it, maybe angel dust or whatnot...

get a grip, man... that is not even credible.

[bood69]

Thanks disectamac, for putting things in perspective about alcohol abuse. From personal experience, I can say it is the worst addiction there is, and although I have made jokes about drinking in MacNN forums, it is no laughing matter when you lose control. My heart goes out to you, and everyone else that has lost loved ones to the consequences of drinking.

[ThinkInsane]

True enough wlonh. I have never smoked a big fatty and started a bar brawl. On the other hand, give me a couple shots of liquid assh*le (namely gin ) and it's a whole other story. That's when the bar stools start flying.

I say legalize, and tax the ever living crap out of it and we'll have the national debt paid by next tuesday! First round of legal Hydro-Buds are on me. Biz, bring that fancy new hooka of yours!

[MacNZ]

I'm sorry wlonh but the person attacked was my mom so i think i know. She's a blimmin drug councillor + the patient was a severe marijuana addict on withdrawel. I mean this doesn't obviously happen to everyone on pot but it does happen. Anyways when I said hellishly addictive I was meaning compared with smoking. There was a huge research effort finished the other day and it claims pot is much more addictive than smoking cigarettes so there. I mean if you want to get all the facts and figures I'll get mom to crank up her crappy PC and send you an e-mail!

[bizzare]

sorry but that study is BS. i smoked pot all through the summer and i quit in september and had no withdraws. And nobody I know "has to" smoke pot. everthing pleasurable is addictive. sex, food, music, pot. and i think the guy that attacked your mom must have been on some pretty harsh New Zealand pot or somthing in order to start attacking people. must of been laced with acid or somthing.

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-Bizzare

Specs: PowerBook (Firewire), 500 mHz, 256 MB RAM, 18 GB HD, AirPort, OS 9.0.4

[wlonh]

look, i have been addicted to damn near everything on the planet in my checkered past except marijuana because that is not possible, and i can tell you with all sincerity that the only addiction that i can't beat (yet) is tobacco... and the greatest Surgeon General this country has ever had (Surgeon General Koop) will back me up in spades on this...

there is not a substance on this planet i have not abused and i have known many many others like me and your story is sadly mistaken in one salient point: the sonuvabitch that jammed your dear mum was unbalanced in his own extremely unique way, so much so that it is discountable as being caused by pot... this has to be the case as i have spent my life around abusers, even in my professional life... they are long-reformed abusers, now, as i am... and what you describe is not of my reality nor any other that i know of or have even heard of!

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 06-24-2000).]

[bood69]

Have to agree with wlonh. There's just no comparison between addiction to pot and addiction to cigarettes.

[MacNZ]

Ok, think wat u will but I'll have my own educated views on the issue.....maybe NZ pot is worse!! You'll hafta come over and check.

[reader50]

Sorry, wlonh. I did not mean a whimsical response to hit someone so close to home. Fights with other Mac believers = not cool.

[bradoesch]

Uh, this is to bizarre, even though your signature kinda bugs me (it seems you are reallly bragging bout your PB, but who wouldn't about the setup you have!), anyways, you abreviate megahertz like mHZ or something. Well, really the proper way is MHz. Just so you know.

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Why 1984, won't be
like "1984"

[disectamac]

Can smoking smoking weed be addictive? YES

I'll tell you why.

surfing the internet can be addictive
watching TV can be addictive
cheating on your g/f can be extremely addictive
cleanning your ears with Q-tips can be an abusive addiction
sleeping though night time, morning and waking up late in the afternoon can be addictive
chewing on your nails can be addictive
But chewing on your nails is a reaction to nervousness and anxiety, NO. It's an addiction.
Well you know what I do when I get nervous and feel anxiety? I light up a Newport because I'm addicted, I admit it, I like every minute of it and it helps me relax.
I'm also addicted to large amounts of caffine. You know where to find me when I'm on the road, Dunkin D's or the closest open Cafe.

there's not to many things I enjoy in life anymore with the exception of coffee and cigarettes, they never let me down. Give me a cup of java and a Newport and I'm a happy camper.

to conclude, weed can be addictive, yes it can! maybe not as addictive as Nicotine and other things. Have a wonderful day and if your addicted to something, be sure to let someone know to include yourself. Don't deny your addictions, love your addictions, it's much better for peace of mind.

[wlonh]

addiction, in the classic sense, to pot?

impossible, there is no record of a PHYSICAL addiction to marijuana, any anecdotes to support the idea that marijuana is physically addictive that you've heard or read are bogus and have a hidden agenda and this has been shown to be true time and again... 'reports' come out to show marijuana is addictive and the reports are summarily discredited by JAMA or some_real_authority, i have seen this happen for 30 years now, at least...


if you want to talk PSYCHOLOGICAL addiction, well that is quite another kettle of fish...

you can become addicted to anything, PSYCHOLOGICALLY speaking

the difference between PHYSICAL addiction and PSYCHOLOGICAL is vast, and any doctor worth her/his salt will tell you so, in spades!

Surgeon General Koop has the poop on this, you'd do well to research his works

[disectamac]

right, so your addicted. c'mon admit it wlonh. Say it. I LOOOOVEE IT!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by disectamac (edited 06-25-2000).]

[disectamac]

Alright wlonh, at least say, "disectamac, you need to read my posts before you reply!!!".


I know I should more often than I do. I take back my "admit it post", sorry.

[wlonh]

behaving like an ignoramus today, eh disectamac?

just remember who your friends are, ok?

[bizzare]

Originally posted by bradoesch:
Uh, this is to bizarre, even though your signature kinda bugs me (it seems you are reallly bragging bout your PB, but who wouldn't about the setup you have!), anyways, you abreviate megahertz like mHZ or something. Well, really the proper way is MHz. Just so you know.

The reason for my signature is so when I have problems with my comp, I don't have to sit here write out the specs. I fixed the MHz problem. I couldn't care less if I had a MacTV, I'd still show the specs.

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-Bizzare

Specs: PowerBook (Firewire), 500 MHz, 256 MB RAM, 18 GB HD, AirPort, OS 9.0.4

[This message has been edited by bizzare (edited 06-25-2000).]

OK. Let me throw in some facts. Don't you people listen to Loveline with Dr. Drew? According to him, marijuana is addictive in about 1% of those who smoke it. When someone is addicted, it is as strong an addiction as cocaine or heroin, although I don't remember whether it is physical or psychological. When someone for the potential to become an addict first smokes it, they feel profoundly good, much more than the average person.

Long term (like several years) marijuana use usually leads to memory loss, problems with mood (depression), and chronic bronchitis, among lots of other things.

1 in 8 people become alcoholics in their lifetime, so that's 12 times higher then pot.
Pot probably is less destructive on those around the addict (ie. their family)

As for legalizing drugs, that would mean the cost would come down. The crack epidemic that started in the early 80's happened because crack was much cheaper than cocaine.
Lower cost does mean lots more users. And some people will just use as much drugs as they can get until they run out of money, commit a crime and go to jail. This is often where hard drug users decide to turn their lives around. Cocaine can cost a $100 for a few snorts, and some people can't pay their rent because they blew their money on drugs. Imagine if these people could get a whole fistful of coke for $100. I think you'd see many, many more overdoses if the price of hard drugs fell sharply.

[wlonh]

there is no better authority than Surgeon General Koop, marijuana is not addictive and to even suggest that it is in the same category, under any circumstances, as heroin or cocaine is completely absurd and laughable.

furthermore, the difference between a psychological and a physical addiction is the difference between Pluto and the Sun, so to blithely state that 'i can't remember which' steals any pertinence from your remarks... and makes me wonder if you haven't been toking some herb yourself

you may continue to be deluded if you wish, i am surprised there is still so much ignorance on this subject after all these years... and after a Surgeon General that, despite the efforts of Reagan to get Surgeon General Koop to shut up on various subjects, constantly gave us the truth on any number of health matters and concerns

[This message has been edited by wlonh (edited 06-26-2000).]

[oscar]

Yea old rumors die hard, thats for sure. I'm gonna go make myself blind, tata!


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-See Yea!