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f1000 · Sep 8, 2004, 09:44 AM

Russia Ready to Strike Against 'Terror' Worldwide

Wed Sep 8, 6:27 AM ET

By Elizabeth Piper

BESLAN, Russia (Reuters) - Russia's top general said on Wednesday he was ready to attack "terrorist bases" anywhere in the world, as security services put a $10 million bounty on two Chechen rebels blamed for last week's school siege.

At the scene of the siege in the southern town of Beslan, medical workers began the painstaking task of identifying more than 100 bodies burned beyond recognition in the explosions which ended the crisis.

"As for launching pre-emptive strikes on terrorist bases, we will carry out all measures to liquidate terrorist bases in any region of the world," General Yuri Baluevsky, chief of Russia's general staff, said, according to Russian news agencies.

"However, this does not mean that we will launch nuclear strikes."

The FSB security service announced the $10 million reward for information leading to the "neutralization" of Aslan Maskhadov and Shamil Basayev, two Chechen separatist leaders who are household names in Russia after a decade of conflict in the mainly Muslim southern province.

More than 1,200 people were taken hostage in Beslan in the nearby province of North Ossetia and at least 326 were killed and 727 wounded, Prosecutor General Vladimir Ustinov said, revising the death toll down from an earlier 335. Only 210 bodies have been identified.

"Another 32 body fragments have been found and ... final figures for the number of dead could rise," he said in a report to President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites), posted at www.kremlin.ru.

The broadcast on Russian television of graphic footage filmed by militants inside the school added to the horror as Beslan residents prepared to bury more dead.

The pictures showed the school gym littered with what appeared to be bombs and bomb-making equipment and crammed with hostages, watched over by around six of the masked militants, one of whom was heard murmuring, apparently in an Arabic prayer.

WAR ON MOSCOW

Authorities have blamed the hostage crisis on "international terrorists" -- something that critics said was a fig leaf to mask the failure of Russia's Chechen policy.

But the siege and ensuing battle were the latest in a string of attacks against Russian forces since August 1, when Maskhadov promised a fiercer war against Moscow's rule, although his London-based representative has denied he was behind Beslan.

Russia had previously offered rewards of $5 million for Basayev and $30,000 for Maskhadov.

One captured suspect said the hostage-takers numbered around 30, including two women, Ustinov said. At the start of the siege, some asked their leader why they had seized a school. He shot one of the waverers dead.

Ustinov said the militants later tried to rewire their bombs but one exploded, triggering the storming of the school -- something security analysts have slammed as a bungled operation.

Russia's Izvestia daily, citing troops who took part in the assault, said four of the hostage-takers were captured, including a woman.

Both the United States and the European Union (news - web sites) advocate a political solution in Chechnya (news - web sites), although Putin has ruled out talks and says the West has double standards since its leaders would not sit down to negotiate with Osama bin Laden (news - web sites).

His view has some currency among ordinary Russians, thousands of whom attended rallies on Tuesday in solidarity with the families of Beslan.

A prominent banner at the main Moscow rally was adorned with British flags and read: "Want to help? Then extradite Zakayev!," a reference to Maskhadov's London-based spokesman who has political asylum in Britain.

In Beslan itself, around 200 angry people gathered outside the school, insisting that Putin should share the blame along with security forces and North Ossetian president Alexander Dzasokhov.

"If President Dzasokhov comes near me I'll kill him. My loved ones died, why should he live?," said Yevetta Khaureva, whose 10-year-old niece and 42-year-old sister both died.

dcolton · Sep 8, 2004, 11:15 AM

I believe it is time to start cooperating with Russia and vice versa. Russia should be a key ally in searching for and destroying the killer muslims throughout the globe.

spacefreak · Sep 8, 2004, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by dcolton:
I believe it is time to start cooperating with Russia and vice versa. Russia should be a key ally in searching for and destroying the killer muslims throughout the globe.

And Russia doesn't play the PC game. They will not hesitate to take out their enemies, even if it means that a few civilians get caught in the crossfire.

Maybe we can subcontract Russia to do some fundamentalist clean-up work for us.

PacHead · Sep 8, 2004, 01:20 PM

Russia has my support. I hated the commies, but I have been saying for quite awhile that they are now our good friends and allies.

itai195 · Sep 8, 2004, 01:25 PM

And yet, the US favors a political solution in Chechnya.

f1000 · Sep 8, 2004, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
And yet, the US favors a political solution in Chechnya.

The U.S. favors a political solution. It never said that it would impose one.

spiky_dog · Sep 8, 2004, 01:39 PM

pre-emptive strikes (not pre-emptive wars a la iraq!) may be a good thing. terrorists- and insurgents-in-training are vulnerable in their camps but are nearly impossible to distinguish from the general populace once they're dispersed and deployed...

itai195 · Sep 8, 2004, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by f1000:
The U.S. favors a political solution. It never said that it would impose one.

True, but it leads me to think it's not quite accurate to believe Russia is now 'on our side' (not that you claimed that).

djohnson · Sep 8, 2004, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
Russia has my support. I hated the commies, but I have been saying for quite awhile that they are now our good friends and allies.

Same here. I can just see it now, the Muslim nations defeated by the USA and Russia + allies.

Beewee · Sep 8, 2004, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by dcolton:
I believe it is time to start cooperating with Russia and vice versa. Russia should be a key ally in searching for and destroying the killer muslims throughout the globe.

Yes, lets get all the nations to start wars. Not just in Iraq but everywhere.

PacHead · Sep 8, 2004, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Beewee:
Yes, lets get all the nations to start wars. Not just in Iraq but everywhere.

Yes, exactly. This is how the war will be won.

Beewee · Sep 8, 2004, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
Yes, exactly. This is how the war will be won.

I do see your logic. If we start wars all over the globe the US and other countries that had them, would launch nukes, then when every human is killed there would no more war.

f1000 · Sep 8, 2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Beewee:
Yes, lets get all the nations to start wars. Not just in Iraq but everywhere.

What do you mean let's? WE didn't get the Russians to start anything; Chechen & Arab bigots did.

Spoogepieces · Sep 8, 2004, 04:50 PM

Good for Putin. Now if those cowards in France and Germany would get onboard.

Beewee · Sep 8, 2004, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by f1000:
What do you mean let's? WE didn't get the Russians to start anything; Chechen & Arab bigots did.

Hey, when we have a "your with us or your with the terrorists" kind of attitude some countries will give into US bullying. Even though there is no way to win a gurellia war by force, didn't work in Nam and it won't work here.

f1000 · Sep 8, 2004, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Beewee:
Hey, when we have a "your with us or your with the terrorists" kind of attitude some countries will give into US bullying.

The Russians declared their own War on Terror due to the barbaric events of the last two weeks, and NOT due to U.S. bullying. Why are you trying so hard to turn this into an anti-American tirade?

Beewee · Sep 8, 2004, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by f1000:
The Russians declared their own War on Terror due to the barbaric events of the last two weeks, and NOT due to U.S. bullying. Why are you trying so hard to turn this into an anti-American tirade?

I just call it as I see it. Palestine wants us gone, we say "**** off." We side with Israel, give them money and guns. The war on terror: Bush makes the statement "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror." He basically said that if you don't stand with us you are our enemy. He has said this a couple of times. Like I said I just call it as I see it.

PacHead · Sep 8, 2004, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Beewee:
I just call it as I see it. Palestine wants us gone, we say "**** off." We side with Israel, give them money and guns. The war on terror: Bush makes the statement "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror." He basically said that if you don't stand with us you are our enemy. He has said this a couple of times. Like I said I just call it as I see it.

So in other words, you are an appeaser.

You will let savages terrrorists tell you what to do, and we should base our foreign policies on what some sickos want. You are of course entitled to that opinion, but history has shown that it is a bad policy that does not work.

f1000 · 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Beewee:
I just call it as I see it. Palestine wants us gone, we say "**** off." We side with Israel, give them money and guns. The war on terror: Bush makes the statement "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror." He basically said that if you don't stand with us you are our enemy. He has said this a couple of times. Like I said I just call it as I see it.

Then you must have cataracts. If you'd read the topic of this thread, you'd see that it's about Russia and its declaration of WoT, and that nowhere in the first post is there any mention of Bush, Israel, or Palestine.

Moreover, Itai195 pointed out that the U.S. has asked Russia NOT to use unnecessary force in Chechnya. Do you ever bother to read or do you just like to spout opinions "as you see it," whether or not they're relevant to the topic?

Beewee · Sep 8, 2004, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
So in other words, you are an appeaser.

You will let savages terrrorists tell you what to do, and we should base our foreign policies on what some sickos want. You are of course entitled to that opinion, but history has shown that it is a bad policy that does not work.

Well you can kill as many terrorists as you can, then when they kill you you'll get a "hero's" burial and be remembered and honored.

Me, personally, I'll be enjoying life.

Beewee · Sep 8, 2004, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by f1000:
Then you must have cataracts. If you'd read the topic of this thread, you'd see that it's about Russia and its declaration of WoT, and that nowhere in the first post is there any mention of Bush, Israel, or Palestine.

Moreover, Itai195 pointed out that the U.S. has asked Russia NOT to use unnecessary force in Chechnya. Do you ever bother to read or do you just like to spout opinions "as you see it," whether or not they're relevant to the topic?

First off insults really don't do anything.

2nd My response was to your post of

What do you mean let's? WE didn't get the Russians to start anything; Chechen & Arab bigots did.

To mine of Lets start wars I was basically stating that fighting and killing (even in retaliation to terrorist attacks) will lead to more. We already have problems in Iraq and Afghanistan, adding more strikes (even by a different country) won't help.

f1000 · Sep 8, 2004, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Beewee:
To mine of Lets start wars I was basically stating that fighting and killing (even in retaliation to terrorist attacks) will lead to more. We already have problems in Iraq and Afghanistan, adding more strikes (even by a different country) won't help.

Again, we're not calling the shots in Chechnya; Russia is. You can moralize to your fellow Americans about the evils of retaliation all you want, but it's Russia that's going to decide what it's going to do in the Caucasus.

tie · Sep 8, 2004, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
Russia has my support. I hated the commies, but I have been saying for quite awhile that they are now our good friends and allies.

LOL. Exactly. I can't wait for China to start making preemptive strikes to defeat terrorism. (Or to secure WMDs, or for humanitarian reasons -- sorry, I can't remember this week's reason why we attacked Iraq.)

The Oracle · Sep 8, 2004, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Beewee:
Well you can kill as many terrorists as you can, then when they kill you you'll get a "hero's" burial and be remembered and honored.

Me, personally, I'll be enjoying life.

You would be the coward. The guy who stands by with a declaration of nonviolence while his wife and children are raped and butchered like cattle.

Live your coward's life, and I will take my hero's death so that others might live a life you perhaps do not deserve.

shmerek · Sep 8, 2004, 10:31 PM

Man what happened to these forums? Who are these people?

realitybath · Sep 8, 2004, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by tie:
LOL. Exactly. I can't wait for China to start making preemptive strikes to defeat terrorism. (Or to secure WMDs, or for humanitarian reasons -- sorry, I can't remember this week's reason why we attacked Iraq.)

they should start with Tibet.

everyone knows how vicious tibetans are!
Plus, it has always been part of China (since the day the chinese created the earth!)

Man what happened to these forums? Who are these people?

I'm new here, but what, were there not as many vicious, simplistic minded right wingers before?

spacefreak · Sep 9, 2004, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by tie:
LOL. Exactly. I can't wait for China to start making preemptive strikes to defeat terrorism. (Or to secure WMDs, or for humanitarian reasons -- sorry, I can't remember this week's reason why we attacked Iraq.)

Read Bush's 2003 State of the Union Address. All the reasons are laid out there.

The Oracle · Sep 9, 2004, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by realitybath:
but what, were there not as many vicious, simplistic minded right wingers before?

that's an enlightened way to characterise everyone who disagrees with you.

shmerek · Sep 9, 2004, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by The Oracle:
that's an enlightened way to characterise everyone who disagrees with you.

I have no problems with varied opinions but I have a problem in the way these opinions are being expressed, many people around here are just plain nasty. Grow up.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 9, 2004, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Beewee:
Well you can kill as many terrorists as you can, then when they kill you you'll get a "hero's" burial and be remembered and honored.

Me, personally, I'll be enjoying life.

At the expense of others who sacrifice in order to defend your freedom and your ability to 'enjoy life'?

Powerbook · Sep 9, 2004, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
Yes, exactly. This is how the war will be won.

That's what I want to hear! So we also can get Gro�deutschland back after all!

PB.

PacHead · Sep 9, 2004, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Powerbook:
That's what I want to hear! So we also can get Gro�deutschland back after all!

PB.

Yes, we are all Nazis. Bush is the fuhrer, and I am signing up to be a stormtrooper. I have also applied for a job in the extermination camps, but I haven't heard back yet.

Ooops, gotta run now, have my weekly Nazi rally to attend, and I don't want to be late.

djohnson · Sep 9, 2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
Yes, we are all Nazis. Bush is the fuhrer, and I am signing up to be a stormtrooper. I have also applied for a job in the extermination camps, but I haven't heard back yet.

Ooops, gotta run now, have my weekly Nazi rally to attend, and I don't want to be late.

I want to be a stormtrooper as well, but only if I get to wear the cool white armor.

The Oracle · Sep 9, 2004, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by shmerek:
I have no problems with varied opinions but I have a problem in the way these opinions are being expressed, many people around here are just plain nasty. Grow up.

I'm sure the other side says that about you. And nasty perfectly characterises your comment, 'Grow up.'

Wiskedjak · Sep 9, 2004, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by f1000:
Russia Embraces Pre-Emptive Strikes

Who wouldn't, now that it's ok?

Wiskedjak · Sep 9, 2004, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by djohnson:
Same here. I can just see it now, the Muslim nations defeated by the USA and Russia + allies.

USA and Russia have been allied before ... look how that turned out (30 years at the brink of nuclear war)

The Oracle · Sep 9, 2004, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Who wouldn't, now that it's ok?

'preemptive' strikes go back well before Gulf War II. Israel has taken preemptive action against Iraq's nuclear facilities in the 1980s, and earlier when preempting Arab nations' attacks (like when they destroyed the entire Egyptian air force on the ground).

Wiskedjak · Sep 9, 2004, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by The Oracle:
'preemptive' strikes go back well before Gulf War II. Israel has taken preemptive action against Iraq's nuclear facilities in the 1980s, and earlier when preempting Arab nations' attacks (like when they destroyed the entire Egyptian air force on the ground).

I rest my case ...

Spliffdaddy · Sep 10, 2004, 01:32 AM

you never had one

phoenixboy70 · Sep 10, 2004, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by The Oracle:
'preemptive' strikes go back well before Gulf War II. Israel has taken preemptive action against Iraq's nuclear facilities in the 1980s, and earlier when preempting Arab nations' attacks (like when they destroyed the entire Egyptian air force on the ground).

...and even earlier, when hitler invaded poland to "protect" the third reich.

shmerek · Sep 10, 2004, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by The Oracle:
I'm sure the other side says that about you. And nasty perfectly characterises your comment, 'Grow up.'

The other side? Who are they? You won't find me making personal attacks on anyone in here and the grow up comment was meant for those who do, it wasn't directed at you besides I would hardly categorize that as nasty considering what some of the comments around here.

BoomStick · Sep 10, 2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by f1000:

"However, this does not mean that we will launch nuclear strikes."

Damn.